collapse

Poll

Is Horner's Vuelta win believeable, in terms of clean racing, in your opinion?


froome19

  • Classics Winner
  • Country: gb
  • Posts: 4932
  • Liked: 2041
  • Awards: 2015 National Championships Prediction Game Champion
Chris Horner
« on: September 02, 2013, 18:58 »
To me nothing adds up here. No 41 year old should ride like he did today and be the best or very close to the best climber in a Grand Tour. Admittedly the contenders aren't as strong as could be; Nibali isn't at his best and we have Old Man Basso also competing once again way after I considered him sent off to the glue factory.

But for a 41 year old to just load himself up with dope and put in performances like that? I don't buy that either and I don't see it as worth the risk. So what is it?

  • ReplyReply
  • RIP Keith

    just some guy

    • Fourth Generation humanoid bot
    • Hall of Fame'r
    • Country: 00
    • Posts: 31322
    • Liked: 10900
    • Awards: 2017 Spring Classics CQ game winnerBest Avatar of 2016JSG News Filter Award 2014Poster of 2014Thread of the Year 2013Most Helpful Member 2013Art of Brevity 2012Most helpful member 2012Best member of staff 2012
    Re: Chris Horner
    « Reply #1 on: September 02, 2013, 19:03 »
    +
  • ReplyReply
  • Of course, if this turns out someday to be the industry standard integrated handlebar-computer-braking solution then I'll eat my kevlar-reinforced aerodynamic hat.

    Larri Nov 12, 2014

    Dim

    • Grand Tour Winner
    • *
    • Country: gb
    • Posts: 8403
    • Liked: 3365
      • Velorooms
    • Awards: Race Preview of 2014Best Post 2012
    Re: Chris Horner
    « Reply #2 on: September 02, 2013, 19:06 »
    Horner interview 2007 http://t.co/tYEoylvEvP
    Horner interview 2005 http://t.co/UncSKNCkih

    Its fascinating how in 2007 he said that the rides three years before were unbelievable, how teams riding with 7-8 riders on the front were cheats. Suddenly 5 years later hes saying Armstrong was clean, never cheated, never tested positive, did loads for the cancer community.

    One word.

    Omerta loving douche

    Oh, sorry, thats three
  • ReplyReply

  • just some guy

    • Fourth Generation humanoid bot
    • Hall of Fame'r
    • Country: 00
    • Posts: 31322
    • Liked: 10900
    • Awards: 2017 Spring Classics CQ game winnerBest Avatar of 2016JSG News Filter Award 2014Poster of 2014Thread of the Year 2013Most Helpful Member 2013Art of Brevity 2012Most helpful member 2012Best member of staff 2012
    Re: Chris Horner
    « Reply #3 on: September 02, 2013, 19:11 »
    froome there can be only 1 real answer = PEDS he is out of contract for 2014 , most of his wins come in Cali = no testing

    This whole there was no one on form , not a strong field argument is silly there has not been a strong GT peloton for 2 years it seems-

    Chris has always been a gooD rider , was a slack ass ate wrong was too american for Europe , smart rider but this is just stupid 42 year old men do not put 50 sec into riders of that level.

    Wait till he puts 30 sec into Nibs in the ITT
  • ReplyReply

  • Blackbandit222

    • National Champion
    • Country: us
    • Posts: 878
    • Liked: 200
    Re: Chris Horner
    « Reply #4 on: September 02, 2013, 19:36 »
    I'm not a huge Horner fan or apologist.  I have no doubt he's doped in the past and hope he is clean today.

           
           
              
           
           
           

    I have no idea how you did it old boy but  <3  <3  <3 !!!
  • ReplyReply
  • Sagan supporter.

    just some guy

    • Fourth Generation humanoid bot
    • Hall of Fame'r
    • Country: 00
    • Posts: 31322
    • Liked: 10900
    • Awards: 2017 Spring Classics CQ game winnerBest Avatar of 2016JSG News Filter Award 2014Poster of 2014Thread of the Year 2013Most Helpful Member 2013Art of Brevity 2012Most helpful member 2012Best member of staff 2012
    Re: Chris Horner
    « Reply #5 on: September 02, 2013, 19:47 »
    BB come on Horner has much  better images

    Ponny tail and this classic -
  • ReplyReply

  • Mellow Velo

    • Road Captain
    • Country: wales
    • Posts: 2174
    • Liked: 2148
    • Awards: 2015 CQ Vuelta Game winnerVelogames Classics Champion 20142013 CQ Ranking Giro Game
    Re: Chris Horner
    « Reply #6 on: September 02, 2013, 20:19 »
    BB come on Horner has much  better images

    Ponny tail and this classic -

    Thanks for posting this.
    I hadn't realised that FDJ signed him from ZZ Top. :niceday

    Anyhow, if Monsieur Vayer has got his sums right ( not a gimmee)
    Chris has got this Vuelta in the bag.

     I predict another surprise smackdown to come in Wednesday's ITT.
  • ReplyReply
  • "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.

    just some guy

    • Fourth Generation humanoid bot
    • Hall of Fame'r
    • Country: 00
    • Posts: 31322
    • Liked: 10900
    • Awards: 2017 Spring Classics CQ game winnerBest Avatar of 2016JSG News Filter Award 2014Poster of 2014Thread of the Year 2013Most Helpful Member 2013Art of Brevity 2012Most helpful member 2012Best member of staff 2012
    Re: Chris Horner
    « Reply #7 on: September 02, 2013, 20:35 »
    Thanks for posting this.
    I hadn't realised that FDJ signed him from ZZ Top. :niceday

    Anyhow, if Monsieur Vayer has got his sums right ( not a gimmee)
    Chris has got this Vuelta in the bag.

     I predict another surprise smackdown to come in Wednesday's ITT.

    aye he will put time into all GC guys
  • ReplyReply

  • Zam

    • everything and nothing.
    • Classics Winner
    • Country: re
    • Posts: 2671
    • Liked: 485
    Re: Chris Horner
    « Reply #8 on: September 02, 2013, 23:36 »
    I believe him until you bring some proof.And what's with the dissing on Basso?
  • ReplyReply

  • The Hitch

    • Winner 2012 Tour de France prediction game
    • Road Captain
    • Country: pl
    • Posts: 2473
    • Liked: 841
    • Awards: 2013 Annual Prediction Game2013 CQ Ranking Vuelta Game Post of the Year 2013Race Preview of the Year 2013
    Re: Chris Horner
    « Reply #9 on: September 03, 2013, 00:52 »
    Doping alone dont explain this though. Even on gear he shouldnt be beating those guys,  many of whom are highly likely to be on gear themselves.
  • ReplyReply
  • Despite the self-serving data benders and associated propaganda to the contrary, I am led to believe that there are pockets of organised, highly sophisticated dopers, even within 'new age' cycling teams. Personally, I don't accept that the 'dark era' has ended, it has just morphed into a new guise.

    Blackbandit222

    • National Champion
    • Country: us
    • Posts: 878
    • Liked: 200
    Re: Chris Horner
    « Reply #10 on: September 03, 2013, 02:32 »
    Doping alone dont explain this though. Even on gear he shouldnt be beating those guys,  many of whom are highly likely to be on gear themselves.
    EPIC WIN!!!!!! Horner to just get better and better the rest of the race. He's so much fresher than the other guys who've had long hard seasons, whereas Chris has had a light season. It shows that guys like St. Jonathan of Vaughters and uncle Pat have been saying, cycling is clean.

    There is something to be said for freshness or being rested.  Everyone says you improve with race days and a GT in the legs etc.  But there are a lot of examples of riders sidelined due to injury who came back to have dominant performances.

    Unfortunately, the best examples I can think of are in cyclocross.  I think Nys was out for a few weeks last yr before winning worlds and Page was out half the season the year he finished 2nd at worlds. 
  • ReplyReply
  • « Last Edit: September 03, 2013, 02:43 by Blackbandit222 »

    L'arri

    • Is on Dr Search's Green and Grey Diet
    • Grand Tour Winner
    • *
    • Country: be
    • Posts: 7898
    • Liked: 6451
    • Dopeology.org @DopeologyDotOrg @L_arriviste
      • Dopeology.org
    • Awards: Post of the year 2015Best Opening Post 2012
    Re: Chris Horner
    « Reply #11 on: September 03, 2013, 09:32 »
    There is something to be said for freshness or being rested.  Everyone says you improve with race days and a GT in the legs etc.  But there are a lot of examples of riders sidelined due to injury who came back to have dominant performances.

    Unfortunately, the best examples I can think of are in cyclocross.  I think Nys was out for a few weeks last yr before winning worlds and Page was out half the season the year he finished 2nd at worlds.

    I don't think we can really compare CX to road though I do like your example. :) The CX Worlds come at the end of the season when the racing calendar has already lightened after that hectic mid-December to New Year spell. Everyone has ridden the same race programme but remember how many races Nys' biggest rivals didn't bother turning up for last year? It's true that riders are tired but all of them already have all but a handful of the prescribed races behind them and it's a different sort of intensity, with parcours, handling skills and luck also playing much bigger roles than on the road.

    In contrast, Horner came to the Vuelta after a bad injury and with just nine days' racing in his legs since March and is currently battering plenty of guys you can hardly call overworked at this point.

    What's more, he appears to be riding better than he ever has before at the age of 41 years old. Now I know I missed a lot of (daft) years in the sport, but I can't remember seeing Kronos showing Zeus how it's done since Duclos-Lassalle beat a much more handsome field two years running at Paris-Roubaix when he was 38 and 39 years old (parcours, handling skills and luck ... ;)).

    I just don't buy it. Horner lost Suisse in a TT whenever that was I forget now, so that will be the decider for me, "good day" or not. There's a cat-3 climb in the course this time around but I don't see that levelling the playing field between him and the guys with whom he has to compete. Unless he goes out there like Thomas Voeckler...
  • ReplyReply
  • Cycling is a Europe thing only and I only watch from Omloop on cause I am cool and sh*t
    RIP Craig1985 / Craig Walsh
    RIP KeithJamesMc / Keith McMahon / Larry Sarni

    search

    • World Champion
    • *
    • Country: de
    • Posts: 10447
    • Liked: 10692
    • Awards: Member of the year 2016Post of the year 2016KeithJamesMC 2016Member of the year 20152012 CQ Ranking Tour GameAvatar of the Year 2013
    Re: Chris Horner
    « Reply #12 on: September 03, 2013, 10:14 »
    the thing with Horner is, he became a real professional cyclist with 37 or 38. So we just don't know what talent he has or had. The "he has never done anything like that in a past" thing just does not work for someone who lived on nothing but Hamburgers, Coke and Beer, and did some bike races because he liked to ride the bike

    the age is a factor of course, but I guess someone like Valverde or even Nibali in his life has done more kilometer on a bike than Horner
  • ReplyReply
  • "If this is cycling, I am a banana"

    L'arri

    • Is on Dr Search's Green and Grey Diet
    • Grand Tour Winner
    • *
    • Country: be
    • Posts: 7898
    • Liked: 6451
    • Dopeology.org @DopeologyDotOrg @L_arriviste
      • Dopeology.org
    • Awards: Post of the year 2015Best Opening Post 2012
    Re: Chris Horner
    « Reply #13 on: September 03, 2013, 11:13 »
    the thing with Horner is, he became a real professional cyclist with 37 or 38. So we just don't know what talent he has or had. The "he has never done anything like that in a past" thing just does not work for someone who lived on nothing but Hamburgers, Coke and Beer, and did some bike races because he liked to ride the bike

    the age is a factor of course, but I guess someone like Valverde or even Nibali in his life has done more kilometer on a bike than Horner

    I agree with the facts you present and I guess you're right on not having much of a measurable past. That said, physical prowess is not a moveable feast. It's not like he could just shift his salad days to a later period like his life was an abacus.

    To me, he just seems that bit too far ahead of everyone else right now. The other surprise of this race for me, and it may well have nothing at all to do with the Dark Side, is the way RadioShack is working as a team in a GT at last. About ruddy time. :)
  • ReplyReply

  • Arb

    • Road Captain
    • Country: an
    • Posts: 2327
    • Liked: 529
    Re: Chris Horner
    « Reply #14 on: September 03, 2013, 11:18 »
    I really want to see the age argument factually presented. Does he really need to do more (and how much) than a 35 year old equivalent? If this is true then we really missed out on potentially one of the best climbers of the decade.
  • ReplyReply

  • L'arri

    • Is on Dr Search's Green and Grey Diet
    • Grand Tour Winner
    • *
    • Country: be
    • Posts: 7898
    • Liked: 6451
    • Dopeology.org @DopeologyDotOrg @L_arriviste
      • Dopeology.org
    • Awards: Post of the year 2015Best Opening Post 2012
    Re: Chris Horner
    « Reply #15 on: September 03, 2013, 11:22 »
    I really want to see the age argument factually presented. Does he really need to do more (and how much) than a 35 year old equivalent? If this is true then we really missed out on potentially one of the best climbers of the decade.

    Me too. I realise that my last post above seems to be borne mostly out of common sense. And the problem with that is that it has more to do with "common" than "sense".  :-|
  • ReplyReply

  • just some guy

    • Fourth Generation humanoid bot
    • Hall of Fame'r
    • Country: 00
    • Posts: 31322
    • Liked: 10900
    • Awards: 2017 Spring Classics CQ game winnerBest Avatar of 2016JSG News Filter Award 2014Poster of 2014Thread of the Year 2013Most Helpful Member 2013Art of Brevity 2012Most helpful member 2012Best member of staff 2012
    Re: Chris Horner
    « Reply #16 on: September 03, 2013, 11:29 »
    I really want to see the age argument factually presented. Does he really need to do more (and how much) than a 35 year old equivalent? If this is true then we really missed out on potentially one of the best climbers of the decade.

    there has been that argument before, re Horner and such a waste of talent

    If it was Erope was not ready for Horner or the other way round , not sure

    1st edition Horner was a talented over weight hilly billy with pony tail and could not cut it - went back new Girlfriend , lost a shed load of weight came back top 20 super dom for Evans

    etc etc , not much detail but there has been that argument

    we ofc have circa 2007 suisse Levi USADA statement re EPO use and the twitter noise about him chasing big george down and giving him a mouthful on the Champs
  • ReplyReply

  • The Hitch

    • Winner 2012 Tour de France prediction game
    • Road Captain
    • Country: pl
    • Posts: 2473
    • Liked: 841
    • Awards: 2013 Annual Prediction Game2013 CQ Ranking Vuelta Game Post of the Year 2013Race Preview of the Year 2013
    Re: Chris Horner
    « Reply #17 on: September 03, 2013, 12:25 »
    the thing with Horner is, he became a real professional cyclist with 37 or 38. So we just don't know what talent he has or had. The "he has never done anything like that in a past" thing just does not work for someone who lived on nothing but Hamburgers, Coke and Beer, and did some bike races because he liked to ride the bike

    the age is a factor of course, but I guess someone like Valverde or even Nibali in his life has done more kilometer on a bike than Horner

    Ive seen similar arguments with froome and it surprises me because in all other sports if you start performing later than others that doesn't count as you being younger than your oficial age, it counts as years lost.

    Looking at vino, horner, froome, if merely starting later makes riders so succesful maybe coaches will soon start telling kids not to ride competitively until they are 22 or something.
  • ReplyReply

  • search

    • World Champion
    • *
    • Country: de
    • Posts: 10447
    • Liked: 10692
    • Awards: Member of the year 2016Post of the year 2016KeithJamesMC 2016Member of the year 20152012 CQ Ranking Tour GameAvatar of the Year 2013
    Re: Chris Horner
    « Reply #18 on: September 03, 2013, 12:28 »
    no idea why you are bringing Froome in here, and that's also not what I said
  • ReplyReply

  • The Hitch

    • Winner 2012 Tour de France prediction game
    • Road Captain
    • Country: pl
    • Posts: 2473
    • Liked: 841
    • Awards: 2013 Annual Prediction Game2013 CQ Ranking Vuelta Game Post of the Year 2013Race Preview of the Year 2013
    Re: Chris Horner
    « Reply #19 on: September 03, 2013, 12:37 »
    no idea why you are bringing Froome in here, and that's also not what I said

    You said others had done more km on the bike than Hornern.

    What i read from that and from the rest of the post is that Horner should still be fresh because he hasnt ridden that much.

    I brought froome and vino in because he exact same argument is used to defend them. And come to think of it Porte as well. That they started late so therefore that their true potential would reveal itself later.

    And i challenge it because imo thats not how the body works. 

    If you arrive late to your time trial the clock doesnt start when you set off. Its already going when you set off. Less km ridden or not, those are years Horner lost, not years in which his performance should have remained in some permanent limbo waiting for him to start riding hard again.
  • ReplyReply

  • search

    • World Champion
    • *
    • Country: de
    • Posts: 10447
    • Liked: 10692
    • Awards: Member of the year 2016Post of the year 2016KeithJamesMC 2016Member of the year 20152012 CQ Ranking Tour GameAvatar of the Year 2013
    Re: Chris Horner
    « Reply #20 on: September 03, 2013, 12:41 »
    he is fresher than a 42 year old cyclist who had ridden on top level for 20 years, I am pretty sure he is. It's not like high-performance sport is healthy or so.

    so it's not that he is better with age, but his decline is lower than for a "usual" cyclist his age
  • ReplyReply

  • search

    • World Champion
    • *
    • Country: de
    • Posts: 10447
    • Liked: 10692
    • Awards: Member of the year 2016Post of the year 2016KeithJamesMC 2016Member of the year 20152012 CQ Ranking Tour GameAvatar of the Year 2013
    Re: Chris Horner
    « Reply #21 on: September 03, 2013, 13:20 »
    you guys do know the age of Horner's main competitors, don't you?!

    it's not like they are 15 years younger

    Edit: Purito, Valverde and Basso I mean.
  • ReplyReply

  • Capt_Cavman

    • Road Captain
    • Country: jp
    • Posts: 1904
    • Liked: 1247
    Re: Chris Horner
    « Reply #22 on: September 03, 2013, 14:45 »
    ...The thing I find funny is that people will gladly accept "questionable performances" from some riders, but the moment a rider they're not a fan of/don't like does the same kind of performance it instantly means said rider is doping, whilst their hero is completely clean.
    Any black/white view lacks credibility in my view. However comparing a 28 year old's development trajectory with a 42 year-old's doesn't seem an argument worth pursuing.

    In terms of how I'd expect sportsmen to develop, I think there is a (vaguely parabolic) trajectory due to age and another one due to for want of a better phrase, competition.

    Age will affect riders differently but probably follows a similar pattern to most sports of peaking around the late twenties for men. 

    Then overlaying that with the affects of competition, the amount of punishment the body takes and the suseptability to injury offset by the gains in experience, specific muscular/cardiovascular development and improvements in preparation.

    Examples of early burnout and late development from the world of cycling will never be much use as the spectre of doping hangs over any assessment of when a rider peaked. But there are plenty from other sports: in English football Norman Whiteside and Michael Owen burst onto the scene at the highest level as 17 year olds but had effectively finished their careers by 26, while Ian Wright started his pro career at 22 and was still representing England at 35.

    As to Horner, I can easily believe that the years haven't taken as much toll on his body due to his racing history. I find his absolute age together with a torrid recent history of injury  and his lack of success in previous GTs harder to reconcile with this Vuelta performance.
  • ReplyReply

  • just some guy

    • Fourth Generation humanoid bot
    • Hall of Fame'r
    • Country: 00
    • Posts: 31322
    • Liked: 10900
    • Awards: 2017 Spring Classics CQ game winnerBest Avatar of 2016JSG News Filter Award 2014Poster of 2014Thread of the Year 2013Most Helpful Member 2013Art of Brevity 2012Most helpful member 2012Best member of staff 2012
    Re: Chris Horner
    « Reply #23 on: September 03, 2013, 14:50 »
    Any black/white view lacks credibility in my view. However comparing a 28 year old's development trajectory with a 42 year-old's doesn't seem an argument worth pursuing.

    In terms of how I'd expect sportsmen to develop, I think there is a (vaguely parabolic) trajectory due to age and another one due to for want of a better phrase, competition.

    Age will affect riders differently but probably follows a similar pattern to most sports of peaking around the late twenties for men. 

    Then overlaying that with the affects of competition, the amount of punishment the body takes and the suseptability to injury offset by the gains in experience, specific muscular/cardiovascular development and improvements in preparation.

    Examples of early burnout and late development from the world of cycling will never be much use as the spectre of doping hangs over any assessment of when a rider peaked. But there are plenty from other sports: in English football Norman Whiteside and Michael Owen burst onto the scene at the highest level as 17 year olds but had effectively finished their careers by 26, while Ian Wright started his pro career at 22 and was still representing England at 35.

    As to Horner, I can easily believe that the years haven't taken as much toll on his body due to his racing history. I find his absolute age together with a torrid recent history of injury  and his lack of success in previous GTs harder to reconcile with this Vuelta performance.

    endurance sports tend to be around 30´s and peak slightly after 30 fwiw

    and drop off from what was peak is usually very step
  • ReplyReply

  • Claudio Cappuccino

    • National Champion
    • Country: nl
    • Posts: 919
    • Liked: 779
    • Venga! Venga! Venga!
    Re: Chris Horner
    « Reply #24 on: September 03, 2013, 15:10 »
    Sayer will be proud on the gearing gramps was pushing yesterday. It wasnt like nobody was trying behind him. Basso who looks in very good shape. Nibali, he didnt gain a friggin second on gramps.

    Maybe he tanked some amazing blood cells in the Tour of Utah or did he find the fountain of youth there?
    And, maybe he will flatten out for the remainder of the Vuelta, like Santambroglio. But this was quite the show from Radioshack, go out with a blast?
  • ReplyReply

  • just some guy

    • Fourth Generation humanoid bot
    • Hall of Fame'r
    • Country: 00
    • Posts: 31322
    • Liked: 10900
    • Awards: 2017 Spring Classics CQ game winnerBest Avatar of 2016JSG News Filter Award 2014Poster of 2014Thread of the Year 2013Most Helpful Member 2013Art of Brevity 2012Most helpful member 2012Best member of staff 2012
    Re: Chris Horner
    « Reply #25 on: September 03, 2013, 15:12 »
    Sayer will be proud on the gearing gramps was pushing yesterday. It wasnt like nobody was trying behind him. Basso who looks in very good shape. Nibali, he didnt gain a friggin second on gramps.

    Maybe he tanked some amazing blood cells in the Tour of Utah or did he find the fountain of youth there?
    And, maybe he will flatten out for the remainder of the Vuelta, like Santambroglio. But this was quite the show from Radioshack, go out with a blast?

    and Utah had USADA doing the tesing , my bet a fine tooth comb is being used
  • ReplyReply

  • KeithJamesMc

    • Road Captain
    • Country: gb
    • Posts: 1696
    • Liked: 1396
    Re: Chris Horner
    « Reply #26 on: September 03, 2013, 15:53 »
    So I am really confused about the lack of accusations coming out of the media:
    - I can't find anything in the main cycling press
    - I can't find anything in the main UK dailies.
    - ITV hinted that at a minimum, Horner should be quizzed on the rest day. Nothing from British Eurosport.

    All of the cycling journo's must know that Horner was one of the redacted names in the USADA reasoned decision. It seems to me that nothing has happened about that.

    I don't know anything about the age factor, but the climbing style (big gear, out of saddle) looks very 90s era to me.

    What is going on?
  • ReplyReply

  • just some guy

    • Fourth Generation humanoid bot
    • Hall of Fame'r
    • Country: 00
    • Posts: 31322
    • Liked: 10900
    • Awards: 2017 Spring Classics CQ game winnerBest Avatar of 2016JSG News Filter Award 2014Poster of 2014Thread of the Year 2013Most Helpful Member 2013Art of Brevity 2012Most helpful member 2012Best member of staff 2012
    Re: Chris Horner
    « Reply #27 on: September 03, 2013, 15:57 »
    So I am really confused about the lack of accusations coming out of the media:
    - I can't find anything in the main cycling press
    - I can't find anything in the main UK dailies.
    - ITV hinted that at a minimum, Horner should be quizzed on the rest day. Nothing from British Eurosport.

    All of the cycling journo's must know that Horner was one of the redacted names in the USADA reasoned decision. It seems to me that nothing has happened about that.

    I don't know anything about the age factor, but the climbing style (big gear, out of saddle) looks very 90s era to me.

    What is going on?

    Tuarts will be along to have a go at me quoting myself but anyways

    I asked this question to Neil Rogers after Digger forum was doing his thing

  • ReplyReply

  • KeithJamesMc

    • Road Captain
    • Country: gb
    • Posts: 1696
    • Liked: 1396
    Re: Chris Horner
    « Reply #28 on: September 03, 2013, 16:10 »
    Hmmm, not sure what to say.
    Perhaps Horner got some stick in todays interviews.
  • ReplyReply

  • Claudio Cappuccino

    • National Champion
    • Country: nl
    • Posts: 919
    • Liked: 779
    • Venga! Venga! Venga!
    Re: Chris Horner
    « Reply #29 on: September 03, 2013, 17:03 »
    What is going on?
    Ophrah cleaned up cycling so guys of 41 can now win. Clean Jensie for Flandres next year.

    Cycling media? All apologists, with maybe one or two exceptions, the Irish fellow - Shane whats his name - comes to mind.

    The worst come from Boulder Colorado though, what a sorry excuse for being a journo there, looks to come with the job. Hell, whats new.
  • ReplyReply

  •  

    * Dark Side Chatbox

    Sorry, this shoutbox does not exist.

    Recent Posts

    Re: BMC news by al_pacino
    [July 16, 2018, 21:54]


    Re: How The Race Was Won Cosmo Catalano by Drummer Boy
    [July 16, 2018, 17:25]


    Re: BMC news by Drummer Boy
    [July 16, 2018, 17:20]


    Re: BMC news by search
    [July 16, 2018, 16:09]


    Re: BMC news by Carlo Algatrensig
    [July 16, 2018, 15:29]


    Re: BMC news by Mellow Velo
    [July 16, 2018, 15:12]



    Top
    Back to top