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BadbrainAJ

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Jonathan Tiernan Locke ... blood passport case?
« on: September 29, 2013, 00:15 »
Paper isn't out yet.But potential first 'banana skin' for Cookson and Sky is Walsh article in Sunday Times.Subject is JTL and his blood values.Although the period concerned is pre Sky circa Sept 2012.
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  • « Last Edit: September 29, 2013, 20:19 by Dim »

    AG

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    Jonathon Tiernan Locke ... blood passport case?
    « Reply #1 on: September 29, 2013, 04:21 »
    Article by David Walsh in the sunday times says

    Quote
    Jonathan Tiernan-Locke, 28, from Plymouth, who won last year’s Tour of Britain, has received a letter from the UCI, cycling’s governing body, after the discovery of irregular variations dating back to September 2012, three months before he joined Team Sky. He has three weeks to provide an explanation.

    Quote
    It is believed the suspicious values relate to the final four months of last year, when Tiernan-Locke was riding for Endura, a team that competed at a lower level and whose riders were not part of the biological passport system. He began to undergo regular blood-testing when he won the Tour of Britain.

    hmm    :?
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  • AG

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    Moderator Comment   I started a new topic with Babdbrain's post as I thought it should be its own topic rather than in with the Cookson stuff
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  • Jono L.

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    Anyone found a full transcipt online yet?
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  • AG

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    havent seen anything so far.  will post it when I find something
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  • Jono L.

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    I guess we'll have to wait for someone with a subscription to rip it and put it up somewhere... only a matter of time!
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  • AG

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    Sky statement

    Quote
    29 September:

    The Sunday Times today published a story on Team Sky rider Jonathan Tiernan-Locke. In response to this, Team Sky has said:

    "Team Sky has been informed by Jonathan Tiernan-Locke that the UCI has notified him of a potential discrepancy in his biological passport data.

    "He has withdrawn from racing whilst his response to the UCI is prepared then considered by the UCI.

    "We have no doubts over his performance, behaviour or tests at Team Sky and understand any anomaly is in readings taken before he joined the team.

    "Team Sky has tried to respect what should be a confidential process, allowing the rider to explain in private, without prejudice, and the anti-doping authorities to do their valuable job.

    "At this stage in the ongoing process we will not add any further detail."

    Read more at http://www.teamsky.com/article/0,27290,17546_8947725,00.html?#VtCgFA3k98Th1t4Y.99
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  • Joachim

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    There's obviously a difference between his values per and post signing for Sky.

    That his performance has dropped through the floor since Sky suggests pre-Sky doping, but is still an assumption.
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    lancasterke

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    He had been pulled from competing a few times recently including the wc. I'd be interested to know how long he's known about this.
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  • just some guy

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    He had been pulled from competing a few times recently including the wc. I'd be interested to know how long he's known about this.

    Aye thats the stupid part, at least we know why he has been sh*t this year
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    Aye thats the stupid part, at least we know why he has been sh*t this year

     It's pleasing to see a BP deliver the answer (the most obvious one) on a performance conundrum that had us all scratching our heads. One might even call it a sceptical itch.
     It's also pleasing to see that David Walsh is prepared to put into print an article that doesn't paint BC whiter than white.
     Other than being dumb to sign him in the first place, based upon such scant info, I can't see how Sky won't actually come out of this smelling of roses.

     However, knowing what I know about how BC place so much faith in potential, through performance testing, I find I am now scratching my head again.
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  • "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.

    KeithJamesMc

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    The main David Walsh Article -
    - not biological passport at endura
    - joined when won tour of britain
    - UCI think values normalised at lower level at Sky
    - re-opens questions from L'equipe during Tour du Haut Var (one stage win and overall) and the Tour Mediterranean (two stage wins and overall)

    In separate article about UCI, Walsh states this:
    Quote
    Certain riders played to different rules. As we discovered last week in our investigation into the Tiernan-Locke case, when senior figures in professional cycling and anti-doping fear that a doping case could be used to affect a presidential election, it is time to despair.

    Also says BskyB will be busy this week in damage limitation - nothing that a sponsor wants to be engaged in

    Lionel Birnie wrote a side piece saying Tiernan-Locke's history.
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    There's obviously a difference between his values per and post signing for Sky.

    That his performance has dropped through the floor since Sky suggests pre-Sky doping, but is still an assumption.

    Agree, his clean data must have come from Sky this year, which was below what was possible with his not suspect data from after the Tour of Britain. The bad thing for Jonathan is that a violation of the Bio passport means that one is 0.1% likely to be clean, and it takes multible of such violations to start a case. As far as Sky I don't see much trouble, they can just say they knew nothing, as they probably did, and say that their internal check on riders must have worked since Jonathan stopped doping.
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  • Tuart

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    Not sure how you can use a pre-test period (<Jan '13) as a baseline though?

    Wasn't there an article somewhere about JTL's terrible season?
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    KeithJamesMc

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    I'm thinking of JTL here and what I'd expect a clean rider to do...

    1. I'd write a letter to UCI and publish it everywhere - try to be as transparent as possible
    2. I'd publish *all* my blood work including the tests that Endura must have done during and before that year.

    I also would realise that I am my own (or at least with my agent and family) - Sky's PR seems to be "not on our watch"

    This is JTL said after the Tour of Med snide comments:
    Quote
    “I’ve heard the rumours, and the suspicion,” Locke tells Cyclingnews. “I’ve heard it all. I don’t know what to say other than I’ll do whatever it takes to show people, so I’ll be doing weekly, or bi-weekly blood tests. Like I said, whatever it takes.”
    So he should have a decent amount of data
    source: http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/jonathan-tiernan-locke-illness-doping-rumours-and-his-road-to-the-top
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  • « Last Edit: September 29, 2013, 09:44 by KeithJamesMc »

    froome19

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    Interesting to note that Walsh tells of how Garmin had tested JTL thoroughly in the spring (March 26) and had found his results fine and continued to express interest in him.

    I don't want Sky leaving JTL in the lurch here, they should be hands on in the investigation ideally and doing their best to get to the bottom of it all. The whole situation doesn't really involve them all that much, but it does cast aspersions on their zero tolerance policy and that particular policy has taken quite a bit of battering recently.

    Also the case seems to have worked in that they used his regular levels from this year and then compared them to his over the top levels from late last year.

    The whole BSkyB sponsor issue I felt was Walsh being overly dramatic. I don't think there is a massive issue for the sponsors to be dealing with and anyways the whole Leinders issue, followed by the departures would seem to be a more serious issue than this.
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    Daniel Benson ‏@dnlbenson 1m
    Brian Smith: "Is Jonathan Tiernan-Locke a doper? Definitely not."

    Daniel Benson ‏@dnlbenson 4m
    Brian Smith stands up for Jonathan Tiernan-Locke's performances and says Sky took rider under their wing from Sept last year.

    There you have it, not surprising form Smiths track records.
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  • froome19

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    Quote
    According to the Sunday Times, Tiernan-Locke's irregular blood values date back to the last four months of 2012, when he raced for Endura. Cyclingnews' Daniel Benson spoke to Jonathan Tiernan-Locke's 2012 manager, Brian Smith and he explained that both Garmin and Sky had found Tiernan-Locke's 2012 blood values to their satisfaction.
    “Jonathan Vaughters got in contact and said there were no abnormalities of John’s test and that they’d still like to progress with a possible chat of taking him on," Smith said. "Then Sky approached him and took him to a training camp in Tenerife at the start of May. They started testing him and because of his interest in wanting to sign for them and their interest, we then asked if Sky would take him under their wing until the end of the season. Which they obviously decided to do."

    That was from CN BTW
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  • Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving.

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    KeithJamesMc

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    The whole BSkyB sponsor issue I felt was Walsh being overly dramatic. I don't think there is a massive issue for the sponsors to be dealing with and anyways the whole Leinders issue, followed by the departures would seem to be a more serious issue than this.
    No, Walsh is not being over-dramatic.

    What BskyB knows a lot about is churn - management of churn (or minimisation) is a core skill required for the success of their business. The psychology of churn is that few people leave with the first mistake that a company makes. It is the build-up of mistakes especially one's that are repeated that make a person leave a company for another provider.

    If we apply this to Team Sky:
    1. The Geert Leinders/Bobby Julich/Michael Barry / et-all recruitment was a complete shambles. Team Sky put out a statement "We cocked up, Brailsford was ready to resign, We have learnt out mistakes"
    2. As that episode is unfolding, Team Sky recruit JTL. No, I am not saying JTL is guilty. But, whatever the questions we soon come round to "Why did Team Sky recruit him?". Even if JTL is innocent, Team Sky will have the same questions over their recruitment policy.

    If Team Sky take a "Nothing to do with us, gov, before our time" - it will be a massive mistake - not just PRwise, but with the sponsors...
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  • LukasCPH

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    Not sure how you can use a pre-test period (<Jan '13) as a baseline though?
    My first thought as well.
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    DB-Coop

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    2. As that episode is unfolding, Team Sky recruit JTL. No, I am not saying JTL is guilty. But, whatever the questions we soon come round to "Why did Team Sky recruit him?". Even if JTL is innocent, Team Sky will have the same questions over their recruitment policy.

    If Team Sky take a "Nothing to do with us, gov, before our time" - it will be a massive mistake - not just PRwise, but with the sponsors...

    Sky would have no way of knowing if JTL was on something when at Endura, his values might have looked fine, it is only the drop off in those values that expose him, so actually a nothing to do with it stance seems right, and true. He didn't dope on Sky, and they couldn't have known if he did prior to signing him.
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  • just some guy

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  • L'arri

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    "If, for some freak reason, that nuisance of a British Cycling guy gets the vote in Florence next week, I want you to post this letter..."

    Srsly, things don't look too good for JTL, who was until recently believed to be the next triple GT in-a-row winner and possible future candidate for UN Secretary-General.

    And the press is going to be camping out at the Death Star in Aigle, demanding answers.

    Big fish fry slower.
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    Mellow Velo

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    Daniel Benson ‏@dnlbenson 1m
    Brian Smith: "Is Jonathan Tiernan-Locke a doper? Definitely not."

    Daniel Benson ‏@dnlbenson 4m
    Brian Smith stands up for Jonathan Tiernan-Locke's performances and says Sky took rider under their wing from Sept last year.

    There you have it, not surprising form Smiths track records.

    I'm also reminded of something else Brian Smith said during the Canadian races that JTL rode in.
    He speculated that JTL wasn't getting the results at Sky because their regime was too restrictive for JTL.
    "He likes to go off on his own and do certain things his way, " is more or less word for word what he said.
     I guess that takes on a whole new meaning, now Brian.
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  • just some guy

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    Tis get weird this thing

    Sky getting sh*t for not checking blood profiles

    Garmin saying they were fine in 2012

    BC and Sky pulled JTL from races not being open with BP issue.

    There was an election, a British positive may have helped Pat, but this is just a please explain so maybe all ok.

    JTL seems to be getting no real stress .
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  • froome19

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    Tis get weird this thing

    BC and Sky pulled JTL from races not being open with BP issue.

    What? When did that happen?  :evil:
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  • just some guy

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    What? When did that happen?  :evil:

    WC RR For a Start
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  • Dim

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    Nothing that the other media havent already said tbh
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