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just some guy

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Re: 2020 the road map for cycling
« Reply #60 on: October 30, 2013, 20:16 »





Races like the Eneco Tour and Tour de Pologne get downgranded. Paris-Nice, Tirren0-Adriatic, the Dauphiné and Tour de Suisse all shrink. Other races vanish.
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    just some guy

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    Re: 2020 the road map for cycling
    « Reply #61 on: October 30, 2013, 20:31 »
    Not so sure the above is correct One of the main points was not to have races clash or overlap

    They do quiet a lot
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  • pastronef

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    Re: 2020 the road map for cycling
    « Reply #62 on: October 30, 2013, 20:38 »
    i don't see Volta Catalunya in the scheme!  :(
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  • DB-Coop

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    Re: 2020 the road map for cycling
    « Reply #63 on: October 30, 2013, 20:50 »


    Well the UCI certainly managed to make the WT relevant, with the 2nd div consisting primarily of uninteresting events. Dubai and Qatar are/will be horrible races, Oman is okay as a warm up race, but really has no buzz to it. Omloop is a nice race along with Brabantse Pijl, E3 and Paris Tours they should be the most interesting D2 races, Dwars Door Vlaanderen is okay but not would rather have seen Strade Bianche really, especially considering E3 and Omloop are already in. The tours included will suffer, at least the ones dropping down from WT status, no racing in Catalonia? no Suisse? Honestly if this happens it will be terrible for cycling. Even the D1 calendar is a mess, they have included more race days in China then in Belgium WTF??? And the same in Canada and Belgium. And as much as I understands the UCI wants to race in big money places, no USA race in D1 or D2?

    Not so sure the above is correct One of the main points was not to have races clash or overlap

    They do quiet a lot

    No they don't only Vuelta overlaps with Canada and Paris Tours with Beijing, but they are in very different time zones so won't matter much.

    Edit: And Ouest France, don't know what happened there.
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    Re: 2020 the road map for cycling
    « Reply #64 on: October 30, 2013, 21:03 »
    i don't see Volta Catalunya in the scheme!  :(

    !!!!!!!! :o :angry
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    pastronef

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    Re: 2020 the road map for cycling
    « Reply #65 on: October 30, 2013, 21:08 »
    Vuelta overlaps with Canada and Paris Tours with Beijing, but they are in very different time zones so won't matter much.



    Edit: And Ouest France, don't know what happened there.

    same thing with Giro and Tour California
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    Re: 2020 the road map for cycling
    « Reply #66 on: October 30, 2013, 21:10 »
    same thing with Giro and Tour California

    Yes, but the Tour of California seems to have been excluded, Tour de Suisse is not on the Tweet, but is on the schedule image, which is right?
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  • pastronef

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    Re: 2020 the road map for cycling
    « Reply #67 on: October 30, 2013, 21:13 »
    Yes, but the Tour of California seems to have been excluded, Tour de Suisse is not on the Tweet, but is on the schedule image, which is right?

    exclude from the scheme of 1st and 2nd division races

    all the other Catalunya, Haut Var, Tour Med, Strade Bianche, Scheldeprijs, Emilia, California and so on, will be in a 3rd division kind of races?
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    Re: 2020 the road map for cycling
    « Reply #68 on: October 30, 2013, 21:17 »
    exclude from the scheme of 1st and 2nd division races

    all the other Catalunya, Haut Var, Tour Med, Strade Bianche, Scheldeprijs, Emilia, California and so on, will be in a 3rd division kind of races?

    They will be in the continental circuit as some of them are today, however their value will diminish because of the new 2nd div.
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  • Leadbelly

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    Re: 2020 the road map for cycling
    « Reply #69 on: October 30, 2013, 21:19 »
    First time I looked at the calendar I thought "Two Tour of Romandies ?!?!? "   :D

    Is there really that much difference outside of the missing Catalunya (which still could be part of the season as one of the non-WT races)? All of the "good" stage races are six days, it's the "poor" ones which are only four/five days long which seems fair enough to me.

    It's maybe not a view held by all, but I'm excited by seeing what will happen (maybe that's just the October Blues talking though). Once you add in all the other non-WT races there'll still be plenty of racing going on.
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  • pastronef

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    Re: 2020 the road map for cycling
    « Reply #70 on: October 30, 2013, 21:39 »
    They will be in the continental circuit as some of them are today, however their value will diminish because of the new 2nd div.

    ah ok thank you, I did not remember about the continental circuit. laughable anyway. Catalunya, strade bianche and many others will be lower than the 3 middle east races and beijing. meh

    their value will also diminish because they will loose tv time
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    Re: 2020 the road map for cycling
    « Reply #71 on: October 30, 2013, 22:39 »
    First time I looked at the calendar I thought "Two Tour of Romandies ?!?!? "   :D

    Is there really that much difference outside of the missing Catalunya (which still could be part of the season as one of the non-WT races)? All of the "good" stage races are six days, it's the "poor" ones which are only four/five days long which seems fair enough to me.

    It's maybe not a view held by all, but I'm excited by seeing what will happen (maybe that's just the October Blues talking though). Once you add in all the other non-WT races there'll still be plenty of racing going on.

    Problem is with not being Div 1 or Div 2 will follow that they may not be TV covered, if so then the best teams won't line up, killing many races.
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  • Leadbelly

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    Re: 2020 the road map for cycling
    « Reply #72 on: October 30, 2013, 23:26 »
    But why would they stop showing these non-WT races on TV?

    The broadcasters show plenty of races now that are just .1, or .2 or .hc and these are the level of races that will encompass division 3. I'm presuming also that they'll have similar sorts of rules entailing what % of WT teams you can invite to these races etc etc. So unless I'm reading it completely wrongly, I can't see much difference going on in these division three races - Tour of California for example should still have BMC, Garmin and Trek with a few other WT teams, UHC and some American continental teams.
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  • just some guy

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    Re: 2020 the road map for cycling
    « Reply #73 on: October 31, 2013, 05:41 »
    Was sent this document last night, thought it might be exclusive  :'(   :D

    http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/15742/Leaked-UCI-document-shows-plans-of-five-year-reform-for-professional-cycling.aspx

    Full doco can be downloaded end of article , not great so far in total some good ideas other not well thought out, there is some wrong interpretation going on as well.
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  • LukasCPH

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    Re: 2020 the road map for cycling
    « Reply #74 on: October 31, 2013, 07:53 »
    That calendar doesn't look as bad as I thought it would. I could actually get on board with that.
    However, the UCI seems not to have understood their own concept: If >50% of all 2nd Division races (Dubai, Qatar, Oman, Het Volk) are in February, and only those count for promotion to 1st Division, a team could secure promotion with one good month - preparing specifically for February and taking the points when other teams are still building up. :?
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    just some guy

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    Re: 2020 the road map for cycling
    « Reply #75 on: October 31, 2013, 08:03 »
    That calendar doesn't look as bad as I thought it would. I could actually get on board with that.
    However, the UCI seems not to have understood their own concept: If >50% of all 2nd Division races (Dubai, Qatar, Oman, Het Volk) are in February, and only those count for promotion to 1st Division, a team could secure promotion with one good month - preparing specifically for February and taking the points when other teams are still building up. :?

    And sign classic riders to do it or sprinters , no needs for climbers
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    Re: 2020 the road map for cycling
    « Reply #76 on: October 31, 2013, 15:42 »
    But why would they stop showing these non-WT races on TV?

    The broadcasters show plenty of races now that are just .1, or .2 or .hc and these are the level of races that will encompass division 3. I'm presuming also that they'll have similar sorts of rules entailing what % of WT teams you can invite to these races etc etc. So unless I'm reading it completely wrongly, I can't see much difference going on in these division three races - Tour of California for example should still have BMC, Garmin and Trek with a few other WT teams, UHC and some American continental teams.

    Yes American races will fare as good as now, but Catalonia might well lose its TV coverage with Movistar the only div 1 team to lineup most likely. The big European races in D3 will be hurt, as only the D1 teams with a significant interest will line up, hence for some races not many.
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  • Leadbelly

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    Re: 2020 the road map for cycling
    « Reply #77 on: October 31, 2013, 19:42 »
    Of course Catalunya will be effected - as I said in my first post that seems the biggest change, but who knows even without these potential changes it may have been heading toward the exit/downgrading anyway.

    Difficult to know how it will all work out in practice - we need more details. The Inner Ring article seems to suggest that January 15th is the next date to look forward to.

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  • lancasterke

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    Re: 2020 the road map for cycling
    « Reply #78 on: November 01, 2013, 08:54 »
    probably the biggest thing that cycling has in it's favour is the frequent references to history. any move away from this, or move away from the historical heartlands is unlikely to be popular.

    this could go horribly wrong leaving many disaffected
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  • just some guy

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    Re: 2020 the road map for cycling
    « Reply #79 on: November 09, 2013, 07:53 »
    This just weird

    where the hell are they going to get the race days from Belgium ? Do people not read the info we do.

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/welcome2yorkshire-plan-for-three-day-worldtour-race-in-2015

    The more I look the less likely cycling can go down the path it is set on ( ie the info we have been discussing in this thread ) It is too set , new teams will find it hard to get into the divisions new races with money is needed, etc etc

    seems to closed for new money which is needed and has killed off some great races , one of those it gets worse the more that you look.

    In saying that the WT at the moment is bad, so something needs to happen
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  • Arb

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    Re: 2020 the road map for cycling
    « Reply #80 on: November 09, 2013, 08:28 »
    Doesn't actually say WT in the body. Can't have half stages in WT either, and a three day stage race would need to be approved (no problem there I guess).

    WT is fine as it is, if you accept it for what it is (a calendar which binds certain teams to certain races).
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    just some guy

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    Re: 2018 the road map for cycling
    « Reply #83 on: March 25, 2014, 11:13 »
    1st note the title change.

    2020 is now 2018

    Inring looks at the whole thing .http://inrng.com/2014/03/uci-world-tour-reforms/ full pdf attached if I can get it to work via my tablet



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  • Leadbelly

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    Re: 2018 the road map for cycling
    « Reply #84 on: March 25, 2014, 11:28 »
    Is inrng not getting confused again about the 50 days thing for the eight 1B teams? The fifty days (all the 1B events) is just the races their ranking is calculated off - they're then free to race some of the 1A events on top of that. I'm sure that's the conclusion we came to when the news first surfaced.
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    Re: 2018 the road map for cycling
    « Reply #85 on: March 25, 2014, 11:28 »
    How the flip does this work without reducing riders per team in races.
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    Re: 2018 the road map for cycling
    « Reply #86 on: March 25, 2014, 12:04 »
    I think it could work for 8 men teams in Division 1 races, and 6 men teams below that.

    A 1A team will have 120 1A races days and say 30 out of the 50 1B days.

    (120+30) x 8 = 1200 rider days to be filled

    Don't know how many days the 22 riders (and maybe there'll be extra room for neo-pros like now) will race, but maybe in the 70-80 range.

    22 x 70 = 1540 rider days
    22 x 80 = 1760 rider days

    1540 - 1200 = 340 free days
    1760 - 1200 = 560 free days

    So they'll have between 340-560 rider days to fill in the lower division races (6 man teams).

    340/6 = ~57
    560/6 = ~93

    So that gives 120 1A race days, 30 1B races days and anywhere between 57 and 93 race days in the lower division.
     
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  • just some guy

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    Re: 2018 the road map for cycling
    « Reply #87 on: March 25, 2014, 12:31 »
    Yes thats rights as far as I can tell, but the conclusion inrng makes as to way a team would want to be 1B is something I can not work out as well.

    Is inrng not getting confused again about the 50 days thing for the eight 1B teams? The fifty days (all the 1B events) is just the races their ranking is calculated off - they're then free to race some of the 1A events on top of that. I'm sure that's the conclusion we came to when the news first surfaced.
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  • Slow Rider

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    Re: 2018 the road map for cycling
    « Reply #88 on: March 25, 2014, 12:41 »
    This doesn't even sound that bad at first sight, but a lot depend on how exactly they're going to fill it in. Which races disappear, which change, etc. No overlap between races is fine, although in some cases it will be difficult to realise. PN-TA double has to change, which is fine, but what to do with the GC riders who do stage races during the cobbled classics? The problem is, I can't help the feeling that the UCI is going to screw up bigtime regarding which races to put into which categories. Beijing as a 7 day major race while TA becomes a 4 day Cat 1B race, stuff like that. Reducing the amount of race days in non-GT stage races is a tough one too.

    The team structure I have no issues with. Smaller teams, less guaranteed invites to big events and mandatory development teams are all fine. Only 5 riders scoring points is just plain dumb though, not a clue what they're hoping to achieve with that. Going to see cases of a stronger domestique with a valid chance of winning a race forced to wait to drag his leader to a 5th place, just because only that leader can score points. Especially in late season.. Not to mention the consequences for the negotiating position of big riders compared to smaller ones; the Valverdes and Boonens of this world are going to get a big pay-raise, while the Amadors and Trentins will scramble to get a top-category spot.

    One huge oversight: not even a mention of womens cycling. This should be the perfect opportunity to give that a big boost by demanding womens teams and requiring at least a significant investment in womens cycling from race organisers.
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  • Leadbelly

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    Re: 2018 the road map for cycling
    « Reply #89 on: March 25, 2014, 13:17 »
    Yes thats rights as far as I can tell, but the conclusion inrng makes as to way a team would want to be 1B is something I can not work out as well.

    Presumably if you're a 1B team you'll get invited to a larger % (say 80 days out of the 120 available) of the 1A races than if you are a 2nd division team (say 30 days out of 120).
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