collapse


just some guy

  • Fourth Generation humanoid bot
  • Hall of Fame'r
  • Country: 00
  • Posts: 31324
  • Liked: 10901
  • Awards: 2017 Spring Classics CQ game winnerBest Avatar of 2016JSG News Filter Award 2014Poster of 2014Thread of the Year 2013Most Helpful Member 2013Art of Brevity 2012Most helpful member 2012Best member of staff 2012
Re: UCI Road Map For Cycling
« Reply #240 on: January 13, 2017, 11:13 »
Why is there no reward? The TV companies will have to pay more, there'll be more interest and easier to promote, plus each race will attract more of the stars.

No the UCI have said that WT have to be invited and WT do not have to come, so no difference from being non WT race except for the fact you can say we are a WT in name only
  • ReplyReply
  • Of course, if this turns out someday to be the industry standard integrated handlebar-computer-braking solution then I'll eat my kevlar-reinforced aerodynamic hat.

    Larri Nov 12, 2014

    Joelsim

    • Classics Winner
    • Country: gb
    • Posts: 2542
    • Liked: 1448
      • Music To Your Ears
    • Awards: Fanboy of 2016New member of the year 2015Current leader, 2015-17 Emerging Riders CQ game
    Re: UCI Road Map For Cycling
    « Reply #241 on: January 13, 2017, 11:34 »
    No the UCI have said that WT have to be invited and WT do not have to come, so no difference from being non WT race except for the fact you can say we are a WT in name only

    I think there'll be more WT teams going to each of the races than before, except perhaps Turkey. It also gives younger riders a chance to get a WT win, the likes of Buchmann etc who probably wouldn't be leader for the established WT races.

    I'm happy to give the new schedule a chance.
  • ReplyReply

  • just some guy

    • Fourth Generation humanoid bot
    • Hall of Fame'r
    • Country: 00
    • Posts: 31324
    • Liked: 10901
    • Awards: 2017 Spring Classics CQ game winnerBest Avatar of 2016JSG News Filter Award 2014Poster of 2014Thread of the Year 2013Most Helpful Member 2013Art of Brevity 2012Most helpful member 2012Best member of staff 2012
    Re: UCI Road Map For Cycling
    « Reply #242 on: January 13, 2017, 11:39 »
    Think we will have to agree to disagree Joel
  • ReplyReply

  • Joelsim

    • Classics Winner
    • Country: gb
    • Posts: 2542
    • Liked: 1448
      • Music To Your Ears
    • Awards: Fanboy of 2016New member of the year 2015Current leader, 2015-17 Emerging Riders CQ game
    Re: UCI Road Map For Cycling
    « Reply #243 on: January 13, 2017, 11:43 »
    Think we will have to agree to disagree Joel

    Yes, probably.  :lol
  • ReplyReply

  • Mellow Velo

    • Road Captain
    • Country: wales
    • Posts: 2232
    • Liked: 2300
    • Awards: 2015 CQ Vuelta Game winnerVelogames Classics Champion 20142013 CQ Ranking Giro Game
    Re: UCI Road Map For Cycling
    « Reply #244 on: January 13, 2017, 12:43 »
     Can new WT races opt out of the UCI's grand scheme of things?
    For instance, why would California want to be in the WT calendar?
    Forced to boot out half of the home teams to comply with the UCI regulations.
    The possibility of being left with an under strength field, if 10 WT teams don't fancy the long trip.
    All for the incentive of being booted back to the regular calendar, the following season.

     The UCI need to learn how to govern, not issue decrees of a dictatorship.
  • ReplyReply
  • "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.

    Joelsim

    • Classics Winner
    • Country: gb
    • Posts: 2542
    • Liked: 1448
      • Music To Your Ears
    • Awards: Fanboy of 2016New member of the year 2015Current leader, 2015-17 Emerging Riders CQ game
    Re: UCI Road Map For Cycling
    « Reply #245 on: January 13, 2017, 13:24 »
    Can new WT races opt out of the UCI's grand scheme of things?
    For instance, why would California want to be in the WT calendar?
    Forced to boot out half of the home teams to comply with the UCI regulations.
    The possibility of being left with an under strength field, if 10 WT teams don't fancy the long trip.
    All for the incentive of being booted back to the regular calendar, the following season.

     The UCI need to learn how to govern, not issue decrees of a dictatorship.

    Is there any suggestion that these new races didn't want to be WT classified? I was under the impression is was a collaborative thing rather than a dictatorship.
  • ReplyReply

  • LukasCPH

    • World Champion
    • *
    • Country: de
    • Posts: 11081
    • Liked: 6943
      • lukascph.media
    • Awards: Staff of the year 2016Staff of the year 2015Velorooms Tour de France BINGO champion 2014National Championships Predictions Game Winner 2014Velorooms Monday Quiz ChampionPoster of the Year 2013
    Re: UCI Road Map For Cycling
    « Reply #246 on: January 13, 2017, 15:55 »
    The UCI need to learn how to govern, not issue decrees of a dictatorship.
    So very much this.

    Is there any suggestion that these new races didn't want to be WT classified? I was under the impression is was a collaborative thing rather than a dictatorship.
    Oh, they did want to be classified as WT - on the same level as all the other WT races, with compulsory participation of all WT teams.
    But then the UCI realised the teams just wouldn't accept that, and they need the WT teams 1-18 more than they need the WT races 28-37.

    So they freed the teams from having to go, and put all the burden on the new races: "If you don't have at least 10 WT teams, you'll be demoted."

    We don't know how the new races feel about that, and some of the fault is theirs too - they bought a cat in a bag from someone well known to actually put raccoons in bags and sell them as cats. But we may assume that this second-rate deal isn't what they signed up for.
  • ReplyReply
  • Cyclingnews Women's WorldTour Correspondent
    2017 0711|CYCLING PR Manager; 2016 Stölting Content Editor
    Views presented are my own. RIP Keith & Sean

    mudplugger

    • Sunday Rider
    • Country: gb
    • Posts: 22
    • Liked: 34
    Re: UCI Road Map For Cycling
    « Reply #247 on: January 13, 2017, 16:37 »
    No the UCI have said that WT have to be invited and WT do not have to come, so no difference from being non WT race except for the fact you can say we are a WT in name only

    A situation that strengthens the hand of Velon. It will be interesting to see how many organisers feel obliged to strike deals with Velon as London has.
  • ReplyReply

  • Joelsim

    • Classics Winner
    • Country: gb
    • Posts: 2542
    • Liked: 1448
      • Music To Your Ears
    • Awards: Fanboy of 2016New member of the year 2015Current leader, 2015-17 Emerging Riders CQ game
    Re: UCI Road Map For Cycling
    « Reply #248 on: January 13, 2017, 16:40 »
    So very much this.
    Oh, they did want to be classified as WT - on the same level as all the other WT races, with compulsory participation of all WT teams.
    But then the UCI realised the teams just wouldn't accept that, and they need the WT teams 1-18 more than they need the WT races 28-37.

    So they freed the teams from having to go, and put all the burden on the new races: "If you don't have at least 10 WT teams, you'll be demoted."

    We don't know how the new races feel about that, and some of the fault is theirs too - they bought a cat in a bag from someone well known to actually put raccoons in bags and sell them as cats. But we may assume that this second-rate deal isn't what they signed up for.

    So they've been sold a pup? I'm pretty sure there aren't any raccoons in Lancashire.
  • ReplyReply

  • just some guy

    • Fourth Generation humanoid bot
    • Hall of Fame'r
    • Country: 00
    • Posts: 31324
    • Liked: 10901
    • Awards: 2017 Spring Classics CQ game winnerBest Avatar of 2016JSG News Filter Award 2014Poster of 2014Thread of the Year 2013Most Helpful Member 2013Art of Brevity 2012Most helpful member 2012Best member of staff 2012
    Re: UCI Road Map For Cycling
    « Reply #249 on: January 13, 2017, 17:29 »
    This is a very important point

    A situation that strengthens the hand of Velon. It will be interesting to see how many organisers feel obliged to strike deals with Velon as London has.
  • ReplyReply

  • Armchair Cyclist

    • Road Captain
    • *
    • Country: 00
    • Posts: 2240
    • Liked: 2403
    • Awards: 2018 Tour de France CQ game winnerGiro Prediction Champ 2017
    Re: UCI Road Map For Cycling
    « Reply #250 on: January 13, 2017, 17:29 »


    I am fascinated to know who is the one and only Pro Continental signing who will be able to have his points count in WT rankings.
    Or might it be that the UCI press office have a poorer grasp of how to use possessive apostrophes than most 9 year olds that I teach?

    Edit: I now see that this is not from the UCI Press Office, but from Cycling News.  But they are only professional journalists, so why should they be expected to be able to use primary school level English grammar?
  • ReplyReply
  • « Last Edit: January 13, 2017, 17:47 by Armchair Cyclist »

    LukasCPH

    • World Champion
    • *
    • Country: de
    • Posts: 11081
    • Liked: 6943
      • lukascph.media
    • Awards: Staff of the year 2016Staff of the year 2015Velorooms Tour de France BINGO champion 2014National Championships Predictions Game Winner 2014Velorooms Monday Quiz ChampionPoster of the Year 2013
    Re: UCI Road Map For Cycling
    « Reply #251 on: January 13, 2017, 20:11 »
    Or might it be that the UCI press office have a poorer grasp of how to use possessive apostrophes than most 9 year olds that I teach?

    Edit: I now see that this is not from the UCI Press Office, but from Cycling News.  But they are only professional journalists, so why should they be expected to be able to use primary school level English grammar?
    UCI's press office is staffed by Francophones, their English is consistently poor.

    Cycling News ... that's a different issue. I think the problem isn't that they never learned proper grammar, but that it's not a high priority these days. :(
  • ReplyReply

  • just some guy

    • Fourth Generation humanoid bot
    • Hall of Fame'r
    • Country: 00
    • Posts: 31324
    • Liked: 10901
    • Awards: 2017 Spring Classics CQ game winnerBest Avatar of 2016JSG News Filter Award 2014Poster of 2014Thread of the Year 2013Most Helpful Member 2013Art of Brevity 2012Most helpful member 2012Best member of staff 2012

    Leadbelly

    • Monument Winner
    • Country: gb
    • Posts: 7322
    • Liked: 6700
    • Awards: National Championships Predictions Game Winner 2017National Championships Predictions Game Winner 2016KeithJamesMC award 2016Avatar of the year 2015Velogames Spring Classics 2015National Championships Predictions Game Winner 2014
    Re: UCI Road Map For Cycling
    « Reply #253 on: August 31, 2018, 09:17 »
    https://www.tuttobiciweb.it/article/2018/08/31/1535645056/la-riforma-che-verra-e-che-non-convince-paolo-broggi-tuttobiciweb

    There have been some reforms the past couple of years with the new WT races, but the main dish has kept on being pushed back and with the details being very sketchy/changeable.

    A (40+ page) report must have been published recently with these details:

    Licences

    At the end of 2019 fifteen WT licences will be given out based on the rankings over the previous three years. The length of licence (4,3 or 2 years) will vary depending on your ranking. Extra years (1 or 2) will added at the end of the season depending on how you ranked during that year.

    Grand Tours

    15 WT teams + 5 best ranked PCT teams (assuming they want to ride) + 2 wildcards

    Teams

    WT: 25-30 riders and minimum budget of 12 million euros
    PCT:  20-30 riders

    Both of these classes must contribute to the development of cycling in one way or another (5 proposals are given).

    CT: 10-16 riders and on the biological passport

  • ReplyReply

  • LukasCPH

    • World Champion
    • *
    • Country: de
    • Posts: 11081
    • Liked: 6943
      • lukascph.media
    • Awards: Staff of the year 2016Staff of the year 2015Velorooms Tour de France BINGO champion 2014National Championships Predictions Game Winner 2014Velorooms Monday Quiz ChampionPoster of the Year 2013
    Re: UCI Road Map For Cycling
    « Reply #254 on: August 31, 2018, 14:26 »
    *lots of stuff about how to 'reform' men's pro cycling
    And women's cycling? :-x

    I expect they simply didn't think of that.
  • ReplyReply

  • Carlo Algatrensig

    • National Champion
    • Country: gb
    • Posts: 768
    • Liked: 879
    Re: UCI Road Map For Cycling
    « Reply #255 on: September 01, 2018, 23:09 »

    WT: 25-30 riders and minimum budget of 12 million euros
    PCT:  20-30 riders

    Both of these classes must contribute to the development of cycling in one way or another (5 proposals are given).

    In this respect I've had a thought that one way you might be able to encourage WT/PCT team to have their own U23/CT team is to allow some fluidity between the 2 squads. You have the professional team and the U23/CT but at certain races you allow mixed teams where both squads would be eligible to race. So at 1.1, 1.HC, 2.1, 2.HC you could have teams made up from riders of both the WT/PCT team and the CT/U23 team. You would need to put limits on things such as riders contracted to the U23/CT must have raced the majority of their season in .2, .2u and .Ncup races so as they are still genuinely a devo team rather than allowing an extension to the Pro team but it's just a thought I've had on the issue and would need to be refined.
  • ReplyReply

  • Leadbelly

    • Monument Winner
    • Country: gb
    • Posts: 7322
    • Liked: 6700
    • Awards: National Championships Predictions Game Winner 2017National Championships Predictions Game Winner 2016KeithJamesMC award 2016Avatar of the year 2015Velogames Spring Classics 2015National Championships Predictions Game Winner 2014
    Re: UCI Road Map For Cycling
    « Reply #256 on: September 04, 2018, 15:34 »
    I'm not sold on the compulsory development team idea. If you go through all the current WT and PCT teams which ones would you say need a devo team for whatever reason?

    #astana #didata #academy - developing riders from their own non-traditional cycling nation/continent is part of their ethos and there isn't anyone else really to do it

    #mitchelton - isolated geographically (but in the age of modern air travel even this isn't as much of an issue any more) and talented youngsters need racing further afield

    #novonordisk - special diabetic case

    Having a devo team can turn things into a bit of a closed shop as well. I'm thinking Caja here mainly (Direct Energie are a bit guilty too). When was the last time they signed a Spanish youngster that didn't ride for their amateur team. Maybe the PCT-ization of Burgos and Euskadi will change this, but in countries with one or two big teams I could see this having a detrimental effect on smaller CT teams or amateur ones who find themselves in competition with the devo team.

    If we're talking helping out grassroots/low level cycling I prefer the idea of solidarity payments to a rider's previous clubs/teams if he signs for a WT/PCT team rather than a compulsory devo team.
  • ReplyReply

  • Leadbelly

    • Monument Winner
    • Country: gb
    • Posts: 7322
    • Liked: 6700
    • Awards: National Championships Predictions Game Winner 2017National Championships Predictions Game Winner 2016KeithJamesMC award 2016Avatar of the year 2015Velogames Spring Classics 2015National Championships Predictions Game Winner 2014
    Re: UCI Road Map For Cycling
    « Reply #257 on: September 04, 2018, 16:22 »
    Licences

    At the end of 2019 fifteen WT licences will be given out based on the rankings over the previous three years.

    I'm guessing it wouldn't be a straight adding up of all the points over the course of the three year period, but would be weighted towards the more recent results. Even so, some teams should be a bit worried going by their points from '17 and '18 campaigns.

    Bottom of the table by a country mile, no matter how you calculate the rankings, are Dimension Data. Awful year all round, but their transfers so far might give them a shot of performing that big comeback in 2019 that they need. If they can get a top-7 or so GT rider (Konrad?) to add to the one-day and certain stage race scoring potential of Valgren etc, they might just do it.

    The other two teams in the drop zone by my reckoning are Groupama and Katusha.

    Even if Kittel manages to get back to top form I still don't see his team getting the points. We saw when Cavendish won four stages at the Tour in 2016 that stage wins just don't give many points, you need GC results and one day performances. Some okay signings, but they don't scream points to me.

    Groupama have made one of the best signings of the year in Kung, but is it enough? To use a footballing analogy, imo they have a strong first XI, but if somebody gets injured at the wrong time they could be in trouble.

    Who else could get dragged in? EF-Drapac of course, Lotto Soudal or even UAE.

  • ReplyReply

  • Leadbelly

    • Monument Winner
    • Country: gb
    • Posts: 7322
    • Liked: 6700
    • Awards: National Championships Predictions Game Winner 2017National Championships Predictions Game Winner 2016KeithJamesMC award 2016Avatar of the year 2015Velogames Spring Classics 2015National Championships Predictions Game Winner 2014
    Re: UCI Road Map For Cycling
    « Reply #258 on: September 18, 2018, 09:11 »
    https://twitter.com/velonews/status/1040600835682709504

    Turkeys aren't going to vote for Xmas are they.
  • ReplyReply

  • Leadbelly

    • Monument Winner
    • Country: gb
    • Posts: 7322
    • Liked: 6700
    • Awards: National Championships Predictions Game Winner 2017National Championships Predictions Game Winner 2016KeithJamesMC award 2016Avatar of the year 2015Velogames Spring Classics 2015National Championships Predictions Game Winner 2014
    Re: UCI Road Map For Cycling
    « Reply #259 on: September 25, 2018, 20:16 »
    :fanfare :fanfare

    https://cyclingpro.net/spaziociclismo/worldtour/uci-annunciata-la-riforma-2020-cambiamenti-a-calendario-squadre-licenze-e-wildcard/

    As of 2020....

    The race calendar will be divided into WT, Pro Series (HC and .1) and Continental (.2).

    PCT teams will be renamed ProTeams.

    There will be 18 WT teams (27-30 riders) and they'll be given 3-year licences.

    There will be a new ranking system that will take into account all results across the globe and enable better comparison between teams of all three levels.

    The top two ProTeams in this new ranking will get automatic invites to GTs (it doesn't say when the ranking will be taken into account - end of the previous year or two months before the race?) and for the other WT races it will be the top three. If they don't want to go for whatever reason, the wildcard goes back to the organizer and not to the 3rd or 4th ranked team.
  • ReplyReply

  • LukasCPH

    • World Champion
    • *
    • Country: de
    • Posts: 11081
    • Liked: 6943
      • lukascph.media
    • Awards: Staff of the year 2016Staff of the year 2015Velorooms Tour de France BINGO champion 2014National Championships Predictions Game Winner 2014Velorooms Monday Quiz ChampionPoster of the Year 2013
    Re: UCI Road Map For Cycling
    « Reply #260 on: September 25, 2018, 22:02 »
    :fanfare :fanfare
    The more things change, the more they stay the same.

    :x_x
  • ReplyReply

  • Leadbelly

    • Monument Winner
    • Country: gb
    • Posts: 7322
    • Liked: 6700
    • Awards: National Championships Predictions Game Winner 2017National Championships Predictions Game Winner 2016KeithJamesMC award 2016Avatar of the year 2015Velogames Spring Classics 2015National Championships Predictions Game Winner 2014
    Re: UCI Road Map For Cycling
    « Reply #261 on: September 26, 2018, 08:34 »
    Renaming stuff is the equivalent of putting some fresh magnolia paint over the cracks in the walls, but the WT teams look to have come out of this with rather more than the version of a month ago.

    No reduction in numbers down to 15. Fairly lengthy licences for all 18 teams. Ten riders scoring points favours them more over the PCT teams.

    The new ranking system should be interesting.

    The change in wildcards is a sop to the PCT teams and is at least something for them to aim for, but might not give too many changes. I guess Wanty might have ridden the Giro as well this year if it had been in force, but would probably have skipped the Vuelta.
  • ReplyReply

  • rote_laterne

    • Neo Pro
    • Country: at
    • Posts: 265
    • Liked: 144
    Re: UCI Road Map For Cycling
    « Reply #262 on: September 26, 2018, 22:27 »
    The change in wildcards is a sop to the PCT teams and is at least something for them to aim for, but might not give too many changes. I guess Wanty might have ridden the Giro as well this year if it had been in force, but would probably have skipped the Vuelta.

    I'm rather pessimistic about the new system. PCT usually don't have enough strong riders for two GTs a year. And while I think some teams now might get the chance to ride a GT because of their ranking more PCT teams will struggle to get invitations.
  • ReplyReply

  • Leadbelly

    • Monument Winner
    • Country: gb
    • Posts: 7322
    • Liked: 6700
    • Awards: National Championships Predictions Game Winner 2017National Championships Predictions Game Winner 2016KeithJamesMC award 2016Avatar of the year 2015Velogames Spring Classics 2015National Championships Predictions Game Winner 2014
    Re: UCI Road Map For Cycling
    « Reply #263 on: November 09, 2018, 05:45 »
    In this respect I've had a thought that one way you might be able to encourage WT/PCT team to have their own U23/CT team is to allow some fluidity between the 2 squads. You have the professional team and the U23/CT but at certain races you allow mixed teams where both squads would be eligible to race. So at 1.1, 1.HC, 2.1, 2.HC you could have teams made up from riders of both the WT/PCT team and the CT/U23 team.

    Your wish is the UCI's command.

    https://www.directvelo.com/actualite/70557/des-coureurs-du-worldtour-en-classe-2

    Quote
    The creation of a reserve team (called "development" by the UCI) is one of the possibilities offered to the WorldTour and Continental Pro (1) teams to " contribute to the development of cycling " from 2020

    One of the principles of these reserve teams will be to be able to mix the numbers of the two formations "mother-daughter".

    For the future UCI ProSeries races, limited to 7 riders per team, the WorldTour or UCI ProTeam team can align two riders maximum of the development team.

    In Class 1 races, the 1st or 2nd division team may enter three of its riders with up to four riders from its reserve. In the other direction, the development team can add up to two riders from the parent team.

    Finally, in Class 2 events where only the reserve team can be invited by the organizers, a rider from the WorldTour team will be able to participate with the development team.
  • ReplyReply

  •  

    Recent Posts

    Re: The Academy of Cycling by LukasCPH
    [November 17, 2018, 19:00]


    Re: The Academy of Cycling by Leadbelly
    [November 17, 2018, 05:44]


    Re: Cycling Farmers by Drummer Boy
    [November 16, 2018, 01:27]


    Re: Full Mens Rosters 2019 by Leadbelly
    [November 15, 2018, 19:55]


    Re: Race news 2019 - Rumours , Dates, Parcours , Wildcards etc. by Leadbelly
    [November 15, 2018, 19:48]


    Re: Cycling Farmers by Armchair Cyclist
    [November 15, 2018, 17:06]



    Top
    Back to top