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Gotland

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Re: Doping in XC Skiing & Biathlon
« Reply #30 on: February 21, 2014, 11:42 »
It is confirmed that it is Evi Sachenbacher-Stelvie.

http://www.dw.de/dopingverdacht-im-deutschen-olympia-team/a-17448537
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    Zam

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    Re: Doping in XC Skiing & Biathlon
    « Reply #31 on: February 21, 2014, 18:20 »
    The eyetalian from bobsleigh doping is married to heptathlon champ Hanna Malnychenko.
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  • The Hitch

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    Re: Doping in XC Skiing & Biathlon
    « Reply #32 on: February 21, 2014, 18:52 »
    The eyetalian from bobsleigh doping is married to heptathlon champ Hanna Malnychenko.
    And they say doping doesn't pay.
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  • Despite the self-serving data benders and associated propaganda to the contrary, I am led to believe that there are pockets of organised, highly sophisticated dopers, even within 'new age' cycling teams. Personally, I don't accept that the 'dark era' has ended, it has just morphed into a new guise.

    just some guy

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    Re: Doping in XC Skiing & Biathlon
    « Reply #33 on: February 22, 2014, 10:07 »
    Ha ha ha 3 *no have 35 sec after 15 km womens 30km.

    good to see they drank their OJ
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  • Of course, if this turns out someday to be the industry standard integrated handlebar-computer-braking solution then I'll eat my kevlar-reinforced aerodynamic hat.

    Larri Nov 12, 2014

    Gotland

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    Re: Doping in XC Skiing & Biathlon
    « Reply #34 on: February 22, 2014, 10:55 »
    Ha ha ha 3 *no have 35 sec after 15 km womens 30km.

    good to see they drank their OJ

    It seems that the waxing problems of Norway have been sorted out. A truly Gewiss-Ballan performance. Especially, riding flat out for 30 km and finishing with closed mouths.

    Hm, the cynic in me is very skeptic about this performance. Although, Norway has dominated XC-skiing during the past years, I can't look upon this performance without having my eyebrowes raised.
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  • Gotland

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    Re: Doping in XC Skiing & Biathlon
    « Reply #35 on: February 22, 2014, 13:46 »
    Courtesy of KeithJamesMC XC-skiing has their second doping case in the Olympics

     http://wintergames.ap.org/article/ukraine-cross-country-skier-tests-positive

    After googling the substance trimetazidine,  this one is more serious compared to Evie Sachenbacher-Stelvie being stupid and using a nutrional supplement ihmo.

    It pushes the limit of ischemia. You can work harder for a longer period of time without the muscles producing lactic acid.
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  • just some guy

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    just some guy

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    Re: Doping in XC Skiing & Biathlon
    « Reply #38 on: February 23, 2014, 10:48 »
    BBC commentary at start of race:

    "65 starters, the Austrian Duerr has been withdrawn and we hear it is for a disciplinary reason"

    Pathetic...
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  • XC Skater

    Re: Doping in XC Skiing & Biathlon
    « Reply #39 on: February 23, 2014, 21:05 »
    Very weak commenting on doping indeed.
    And cheering for the Austrian biathlon men also got a sour taste in my mouth.
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    Re: Doping in XC Skiing & Biathlon
    « Reply #40 on: February 24, 2014, 17:44 »
    Team Russia performance in men´s 50 km race and team Norge performance in women's 30 km race was devasting. Even though they had perfect ski/ wax for the race and didn't suffer from the heat like others it still remarkable win. Let´s see after 10 years when they reanalyze those samples how it turns out?
    After all i´m still pessimist when someone or some team is too superior compared to others.
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  • just some guy

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    Gotland

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    Re: Doping in XC Skiing & Biathlon
    « Reply #42 on: March 05, 2014, 09:30 »
    This is a google translated piece of the orginal article in Swedish: http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=sv&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=sv&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.svt.se%2Fug%2Fflera-medaljorer-med-hoga-blodvarden-under-os-i-salt-lake-city   

    The show "Uppdrag Granskning" airs tonight 8 PM on Swedish television. 
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    Re: Doping in XC Skiing & Biathlon
    « Reply #43 on: March 05, 2014, 09:39 »
    This is a google translated piece of the orginal article in Swedish: http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=sv&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=sv&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.svt.se%2Fug%2Fflera-medaljorer-med-hoga-blodvarden-under-os-i-salt-lake-city   

    The show "Uppdrag Granskning" airs tonight 8 PM on Swedish television.

    can you do a point point keith style thing ?

    I will watch but we have a kid with vinterkräksjuka  so may miss some stuff , plus the then normal Swedish I miss anyway
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  • Gotland

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    Re: Doping in XC Skiing & Biathlon
    « Reply #44 on: March 05, 2014, 09:44 »
    can you do a point point keith style thing ?

    I will watch but we have a kid with vinterkräksjuka  so may miss some stuff , plus the then normal Swedish I miss anyway

    Sure I can do that.  vinterkräksjuka - :barf  sorry to hear that. I never had it myself, knock on wood.
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  • Gotland

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    Re: Doping in XC Skiing & Biathlon
    « Reply #45 on: March 05, 2014, 14:38 »
    An academic teaser until tonight http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18282224
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  • Gotland

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    Re: Doping in XC Skiing & Biathlon
    « Reply #46 on: March 05, 2014, 20:36 »
    Invesitgative Swedish news programme "Uppdrag Granskning" (mission to investigate) has obtained longitudinal blood data of cross country skiers.

    -The data is 5 000 datapoints collected during the first decade in the millenium. It consists of individual Hematocrit, HB and Ret levels from blood samples.

    - The conclusion is on an aggregate level that the data shows indication of blood manipulation. Blood profiles show sharp highs during championships and low scores during off seasing. A female athlete (can't remember who it was) had HB of 11.7 off score and 16.8 before a major competion.

    - Nations that had suspiciously high blood values in the data were Norway, Finland, Estonia, Germany and Russia. One Swedish athlete is mentioned too, more on that later.

    -Interview experts which have reviewed the data are Professor Don Caitlin (UCLA), Professor Perikles Simon ( Wada) and Professor Alessandro  Donati

    - A lof of skiers were under suspicion but couldn't be caught at the time (2005-2006) because their Hematocrit level was easily changed by saline drips. XC-skiing has a no start rule if skiers hematocrit value is above 50%.

    - Test for EPO were crude during 2005-2006, and skiers had learned to lower their glow time through injection directly into the vein.

    - After the Finnish doping scandal in 2001 several athlete were under suspicion and FIS spent 500 000 SEK alone trying to catch Finnish skiiers between 2002 and before 2006 Olympics in Torino.

    - As a consequence of poor outcome in getting dopers caught. Suspicious skiers were targeted and put up on a special list after the Olympics in Torino.

    - 12 men and 7 women were put on the list. These athletes had abnormal blood values over a long period of time. Named names among those on the list were Anders Aukland (Norway), Jan Maek (Estonia) and  biathlete Anna-Karin Zidek (Sweden). The latter commented her blood values with that she has a condition (iirc over production of iron in her blood) that makes her blood values high. The other two provided with non-comments.

    - Other names mentioned are Kaisa Varis (Finland) she was caught for doping later, but she was on the targeted list. As a result of re-testing samples from 2006 Kristina Smigun-Vähi (Estonia) showed an adverse finding.

    - Norway will follow next

    - As a result of the revious programme "Blodracet" (The Blood race) which covered the extreme blood values during the  90's. The Norwegian ski federation presented off-score blood values as an explanation for the high values in the programme by Swedish televison. Not surprisingly off-score values were low and normal. The explanation given by the federation why they didn't provide values during competion was that they did not bother to haul lab equipment to races and test their athletes.

    - Otherwise it was No comment, no comment and no comment from the Norwegian federation why their athletes had high blood values during 2000-2007. And yes no comment again from the Norwegian federation. Finally, the reporters made an unannounced visit to the Norwegian ski federaton and they were met by a arrogant media representative - yes no comment this time either.

    It surprised me how much the antidoping hunters knew within FIS about which athletes did dope  and not being able to catch the cheaters. The explanation that was given was at the time tests were crude.

    A link to the programme: http://www.svtplay.se/video/1849884/uppdrag-granskning Might be geo restricted


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  • « Last Edit: March 05, 2014, 21:00 by Gotland »

    kabloemski

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    Re: Doping in XC Skiing & Biathlon
    « Reply #47 on: March 05, 2014, 22:32 »
    Awesome, Gotland, I tweeted you post :cool
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  • Hey, Bart! Your epidermis is showing!

    steppe

    Re: Doping in XC Skiing & Biathlon
    « Reply #48 on: April 19, 2014, 01:31 »
    For some other reason people likes to paint FIS as an anti doping champion. Or maybe it is only FIS who likes to do that, but they are getting away with it.

    It is true that they have been testing blood since the early nineties, but they didn't join WADA's ABP program until 2012, years after UCI, and they have never sanctioned anyone on the basis of their blood passport.  And even if they have tested blood since the early nineties, and one should think they knew full well where the oxygen vector doping problem is, they still think it is wise to use some of their precious few EPO tests on ski jumpers.

    When they introduced the blood screening proir to races in cross country skiing  they let the skiers come back for a new test if they tested too high. They were told to go drink lots of water and come back in a while. Only if the skier tested too high at the third test was he or she not cleared for the race. It was a farce. And when Mauela di Centa tested too high at a race in 1999 the FIS head of anti-doping lied for her and played along with the fake story about an injury.

    It wasn't FIS who caught Dürr, it was IOC. It wasn't FIS who caught Mühlegg, Danilova and Lazutina either, it was IOC.
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  • DB-Coop

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    Re: Doping in XC Skiing & Biathlon
    « Reply #49 on: April 19, 2014, 06:41 »
    - Nations that had suspiciously high blood values in the data were Norway, Finland, Estonia, Germany and Russia. One Swedish athlete is mentioned too, more on that later.

    I love how it seems the ADA's seems unwilling to catch their own riders. Maybe they need to change the system. Each ADA is responsible for catching all other riders than their own. And they get the financial penalty the rider is faced with if they catch him.

    It surprised me how much the antidoping hunters knew within FIS about which athletes did dope  and not being able to catch the cheaters. The explanation that was given was at the time tests were crude.

    I would really expect this, I mean when this forum looked at Santa last year and was like, "not good" surely the ADA's and whatever numbers they have must indicate the same. I think the ADA's have the information to establish with 95% likelyhood who dopes and not, it just doesn't hold up in court being 95% sure.
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  • steppe

    Re: Doping in XC Skiing & Biathlon
    « Reply #50 on: April 19, 2014, 08:49 »
    I love how it seems the ADA's seems unwilling to catch their own riders. Maybe they need to change the system. Each ADA is responsible for catching all other riders than their own. And they get the financial penalty the rider is faced with if they catch him.

    I would really expect this, I mean when this forum looked at Santa last year and was like, "not good" surely the ADA's and whatever numbers they have must indicate the same. I think the ADA's have the information to establish with 95% likelyhood who dopes and not, it just doesn't hold up in court being 95% sure.

    Sweden doesn't even have an ADA. And the national federation doesn't do any ABP testing.
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  • Gotland

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    Re: Doping in XC Skiing & Biathlon
    « Reply #51 on: April 19, 2014, 11:18 »
    Sweden doesn't even have an ADA. And the national federation doesn't do any ABP testing.

    Ah yes, no need for an ADA in Sweden. Swedish athletes are the most trustworthy and honest people in the world  ;)
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  • steppe

    Re: Doping in XC Skiing & Biathlon
    « Reply #52 on: April 19, 2014, 15:01 »
    Ah yes, no need for an ADA in Sweden. Swedish athletes are the most trustworthy and honest people in the world  ;)

    There are lots of countries without ADA's, Ethiopia and Belarus for instance, but it isn't a good system when the national sports confederation is police, prosecutor and jugde at the same time. It is not good for the athletes, and it is certainly not good for anti-doping. Not that the whole anti-doping system is good, but a somewhat independent national anti-doping agency is better than no national anti-doping agency. At least theoretically.

    When Denmark, Estonia, Finland and Norway can find the resouces for a NADA, why not the significantly bigger Sweden? Instead Sweden has the same system as Iceland.

    http://www.wada-ama.org/en/anti-doping-community/nados/list-of-nados/

    EPO tests done in 2012:

    Anti-Doping Norway: 172 (27 IC + 145 OOC)
    Finnish Anti-Doping Agency: 126 (16 IC + 110 OOC)
    Anti Doping Denmark: 56 (19 IC + 37 OOC)
    Swedish Sports Confederation Anti-Doping Group: 24 (11 IC + 13 OOC)

    From WADAs 2012 Anti-doping Testing Figures Report
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  • steppe

    Re: Doping in XC Skiing & Biathlon
    « Reply #53 on: April 19, 2014, 15:20 »
    When Hein Verbruggen admitted that he had been warning riders with suspisiuos values (instead of trying harder to catch them) people (not already well versed in the mysterious ways of Hein and UCI) were shocked.

    The then head of FIS anti-doping, Bengt Saltin, did much the same thing in 2005/2006. He contacted the national federations who had skiers with suspicous values and had meetings with them where he told them they had to tone it down for the Turin Olympics. It was all he could do. FIS had turned down his idea of a blood passport.

    Of course Saltin's warnings didn't have the extra added spice of Verbruggens, "I know how to make you positive". FIS didn't have many positives of any sort, just lots of data about a decade of very high blood values
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  • Gotland

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    Re: Doping in XC Skiing & Biathlon
    « Reply #54 on: April 19, 2014, 18:51 »
    There are lots of countries without ADA's, Ethiopia and Belarus for instance, but it isn't a good system when the national sports confederation is police, prosecutor and jugde at the same time. It is not good for the athletes, and it is certainly not good for anti-doping. Not that the whole anti-doping system is good, but a somewhat independent national anti-doping agency is better than no national anti-doping agency. At least theoretically.

    When Denmark, Estonia, Finland and Norway can find the resouces for a NADA, why not the significantly bigger Sweden? Instead Sweden has the same system as Iceland.

    http://www.wada-ama.org/en/anti-doping-community/nados/list-of-nados/

    EPO tests done in 2012:

    Anti-Doping Norway: 172 (27 IC + 145 OOC)
    Finnish Anti-Doping Agency: 126 (16 IC + 110 OOC)
    Anti Doping Denmark: 56 (19 IC + 37 OOC)
    Swedish Sports Confederation Anti-Doping Group: 24 (11 IC + 13 OOC)

    From WADAs 2012 Anti-doping Testing Figures Report

    Even though I am Swedish, my remark was ironic. Sure you can compare Sweden with Ethiopia and Belarus if you want to.

    On a serious note, your numbers are quite misleading if you are making a point about number of test conducted per nation without controlling for the number of licensed cross country skiers. You will find Norway and Finland low on that count too.  I don't know if you have read the book written by Mads Drange. The result from the Norwegian anti-doping work is one can only conclude ADA or not an ADA, if there is no will there's no way to catch the cheaters.

    I don't think that just because you have something that you call an "ADA" on a piece of  paper it will automatically translate to good anti-doping work.




    Post Merge: April 19, 2014, 19:03
    I love how it seems the ADA's seems unwilling to catch their own riders. Maybe they need to change the system. Each ADA is responsible for catching all other riders than their own. And they get the financial penalty the rider is faced with if they catch him.

    The sad truth is that anti-doping work is exceedingly expensive. Why not do the other thing around? Reimburse each  ADA for their hard work for each athlete caught vioaling the WADA-code.
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  • « Last Edit: April 19, 2014, 21:09 by Gotland, Reason: Merged DoublePost »

    DB-Coop

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    Re: Doping in XC Skiing & Biathlon
    « Reply #55 on: April 19, 2014, 23:36 »
    Why not do the other thing around? Reimburse each  ADA for their hard work for each athlete caught vioaling the WADA-code.

    That was what I was saying you know that years pay you have to pay if you fail a drug test, whoever pops you should get that money. That is how the parking tickets are handed out in Denmark. Everybody get busted - You parked 9.99m from the corner when the rule is 10m you getting a ticket.
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  • just some guy

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    just some guy

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    Re: Doping in XC Skiing & Biathlon
    « Reply #58 on: November 14, 2014, 15:03 »
    It is confirmed that it is Evi Sachenbacher-Stelvie.

    http://www.dw.de/dopingverdacht-im-deutschen-olympia-team/a-17448537

    her ban has now been reduced to 6 months

    Quote
    Having considered the parties’ submissions and oral evidence, the Panel has partially upheld Ms Sachenbacher-Stehle’s appeal, finding that the adverse analytical finding was due to contamination and that the athlete’s degree of fault was minimal.

    http://www.tas-cas.org/en/infogenerales.asp/4-3-7872-1092-4-1-1/5-0-1092-15-1-1/
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    LukasCPH

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    Re: Doping in XC Skiing & Biathlon
    « Reply #59 on: November 14, 2014, 19:20 »
    her ban has now been reduced to 6 months
    What's more, a ban that is almost entirely in the winter sports off-season (aka summer).
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