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cj2002

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Re: The Hour record
« Reply #60 on: October 23, 2014, 16:39 »
Can anyone explain to me what Dr Hutch means when he tweets about the UCI track being a bad choice because it's 200m? Would the shorter lap make it harder work?

Voigt did it on a standard 250m track, right? As is Aguascalientes which is where Hutch reckons the big guns will go for it (for reasons of altitude, temperature, etc.)
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    DB-Coop

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    Re: The Hour record
    « Reply #61 on: October 23, 2014, 18:11 »
    Can anyone explain to me what Dr Hutch means when he tweets about the UCI track being a bad choice because it's 200m? Would the shorter lap make it harder work?

    You lose some power in the turn as you push against the track and turn your momentum, the longer the track the less angles you turn per meter meaning you lose less power.
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  • cj2002

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    Re: The Hour record
    « Reply #62 on: October 23, 2014, 18:27 »
    You lose some power in the turn as you push against the track and turn your momentum, the longer the track the less angles you turn per meter meaning you lose less power.

    Yeah, that makes sense. Also why Hutch was on about Aguascalientes - which is actually a 330m track, I have just discovered.

    So why would Brändle pick a 200m track, then? Even if we assume that Jens' benchmark was not high, Matthias is giving himself extra work to do to match it, let alone beat it? Is there a significance to it being the UCI velodrome? Because IAM - as a Swiss team - would surely be equally happy at the same velodrome where Jens went (the name of which momentarily escapes me)
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    Re: The Hour record
    « Reply #63 on: October 23, 2014, 20:01 »
    IAM is a company from Geneve and the team is based in Nyon, so it probably was their decision to do it on a track situated in the Romandie as well.

    The website of the track says about it

    IAM Cycling n’a pas choisi la piste du Centre Mondial du Cyclisme (CMC) à Aigle, où l’entrée sera libre, par hasard. Etablie à Nyon depuis ses grands débuts, fin janvier 2013, dans le peloton des professionnels, l’équipe suisse souhaite encore affirmer un peu plus, si besoin était, son attachement à la Romandie et aussi à l’organisation faîtière du cyclisme.

    [...]

    Pour IAM Cycling, il s'agit là d'un point crucial pour IAM Cycling. Effectuer la tentative sur la piste construite dans les jardins de l'UCI lui donne des garanties de visibilité lors de l'événement tout en faisant entrer IAM Cycling dans l’histoire du record de l'heure. Une synergie pourrait également voir le jour et inciter les responsables de l’UCI de pousser d’autres candidats à venir tenter leur chance sur cette même piste.


    so that sounds like the UCI appreciated the decision to do it on the track in their headquarter's backyard as well
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    Dim

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    Re: The Hour record
    « Reply #64 on: October 23, 2014, 20:30 »
    I think its mainly a swiss velodrome for a swiss team, partly for local coverage but theres also the cost. Lugging the bike and support team halfway across the world, getting there early to train and get used to altitude etc, all mounts up.

    This is the age of budget hour records.

    personally, i dont think the attempt should be allowed on tracks longer than 250m. there has to be some sort of level playing field for those who can afford the travel and those who are budget restricted.
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  • LukasCPH

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    Re: The Hour record
    « Reply #65 on: October 23, 2014, 22:29 »
    For years not a single WT pro even considered a go at The Hour.
    Then Cancellara started talking about it, but eventually put it on standby after the rule change, giving Jens the first shot at it, a nice retirement event and, most importantly, a bunch of benchmarks for his own attempt that will follow later.

    Now Brändle is going for it as well. Alex Rasmussen is planning it, Quaade isn't dismissing it out of hand, Wiggins is interested as well ... I love it.

    The Hour is back.
    The UCI should consider including the Hour Record on the WT/Conti points scales. Maybe with a number of points awarded to every rider attempting it, and extra points awarded for the fastest rides at the end of each season?
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    Re: The Hour record
    « Reply #66 on: October 26, 2014, 01:29 »
    Now Brändle is going for it as well.
    Yes, but didn't Jens essential render the Hour record as somewhat meaningless now?

    We had heard, for years, from Eddy Merckx as to just how difficult the Hour Record was. He had warned Cancellara about the grueling nature of it, and how Merckx himself could barely walk for a few days afterwards.

    And yet Jens, after beating the record, got off his bike with all the concern of having just had a massage. Clearly, it seemed, that if Jens had so easily dispatched the record, then any number of other riders could've done so just as easily. Better equipment and rule changes to blame for all this? I suppose, but it will take more than Jens owing the record for me to care about this.

    In other news... :P
    Quote
    BMC Racing's Taylor Phinney said he may attempt to break the Hour Record as part of his recovery from the season-ending leg fracture sustained at the US national championships in May.
    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/phinney-considers-hour-record-attempt-comeback

    I wouldn't mind seeing Taylor displace Jens as the record holder, but this is what it seems to be reduced to:
    "as part of his recovery."


    That's a far cry from:
    Quote
    "It's very, very hard," he said. "I couldn't walk for a few days after I did it. That's how hard it is."
    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/merckx-warns-cancellara-about-the-hour-record
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    Re: The Hour record
    « Reply #67 on: October 27, 2014, 09:15 »

    The Hour is back.

    It's not back it's dead.

    Only the "performances" remain. Until somebody finds good counter-arguments to my reasoning. What looks like the Hour record today is just a travesty.

    Found an interesting article about Boardman. It's not that new (2013 when Cancellara decided to go for the real Hour) but very interesting. Many things I didn't know.

    http://roadcyclinguk.com/racing/chris-boardman-backs-fabian-cancellara-to-break-hour-record-but-calls-on-uci-to-set-more-stringent-rules.html

    Chris Boardman backs Fabian Cancellara to break hour record but calls on UCI to set more stringent rules

    British legend reveals thinking behind his own successful attempt in 2000


    His battle with Graeme Obree during the 1990s for the hour record defined a generation of British cycling and pushed the limits of bicycle design.

    It is little surprise, then, that Chris Boardman now heads his own bicycle brand and Boardman Bikes unveiled their 2014 Elite Series range on the 31st floor of London’s Centre Point tower earlier this month.

    However, the British legend hopes innovation and technology will be cast aside when Swiss star Fabian Cancellara attempts to break the hour record next year.

     Chris Boardman claims to be involved in ‘every nut and bolt’ at Boardman Bikes, but hopes technology will not play a part in Fabian Cancellara’s hour-record attempt
    Boardman and Obree’s records, achieved with tri-bar extensions and a radical ‘superman’ position, were later reclassified by the UCI as ‘best human efforts’, as cycling’s governing body insisted any future attempts be made on a standard bike like that used by long-standing record-holder Eddie Merckx.

    Boardman responded by breaking the Belgian’s 28-year mark, on a bike fitting strict criteria, by just ten metres – setting a new record of 49.441km shortly before his retirement in 2000.

    Only one man – Czech rider Ondrej Sosenka – has broken the record since, riding 49.7km in 2005, and it is this mark that Classics king Cancellara will target next year, according to reports in La Gazzetta Dello Sport.

    Boardman, however, hopes the UCI will seize the opportunity to regain a firm grip on the rules of the hour record, in order to set a mark to last the ages – as he and manager Roger Legeay hoped would happen after his 2000 attempt.

    Boardman told RoadCyclingUK: “It was a project that was first conceived in 1993 while researching an attempt on the ‘standard’ hour in Bordeaux.

    “A ‘technology-free’ attempt was subsequently forgotten about and then revived in 2000 by my then-boss, Roger Legeay.

    “His rational was that, as I’d been one of the two riders (the other being Graeme Obree) held rightly responsible for pushing the technological limits of the time, establishing a mark that had nothing to do with technology and was just about the athlete seemed poetic, sort of tidying up before I left
    .

    “Also, after the mess of the Festina affair in 1998 we requested the UCI take and store blood and urine samples for future testing specifically to create a mark that cycling fans could believe at face value. Sadly the UCI of the time didn’t see the value in this, something I’m sure they now regret!

    Fabian Cancellara will bid to break the hour record next year according to reports in Italy
    “I hope this element can be added in now as combined, the goal of establishing a record that allowed comparison between athletes 30 years past or 30 years in the future could be truly realised – ‘The Athletes Hour’.”

    Although initially a private exercise, Legeay kept the UCI informed of Boardman’s attempt in 2000 to ensure they would properly recognise it.

    However, to Boardman’s frustration, the governing body of the time later took control.


    He explained: “What most people won’t know is that when we started on the project, it was an entirely private exercise but Roger was keen that the UCI recognise it so kept them in touch. Fine by me.

    “Sadly, near the end they decided to ‘take charge’ of the event and adopt it as their own invention, which would also have been fine by me had they not decided to start messing with the super-simplistic rules we had set out for ourselves, or anyone else that would follow.”

    Such rules included limits on the bike – which had to be metal and of a traditional tubed design – with all the tubes strictly round, and no smaller than 25mm, except for stays and forks.

    Aero sections were to be banned, while the wheels used all had to be spoked with a minimum 18 on the front and 24 on the back – all measuring no more than 2mm in diameter.

    The weight of the bike was also not to exceed 6.8kg. “It seemed if you have to pick a mark that was as good as any for this exercise,” said Boardman


    Boardman is backing the Classics star Fabian Cancellara, pictured winning Paris-Roubaix for the third time, to break the hour record.
    Position and clothing for the attempt were to be controlled using the UCI’s guidance for the points race, although Boardman and Legay’s proposal for no helmets – “the human head isn’t going to change shape in the next few million years” – was over-ruled.

    Boardman added: “By and large though, the overriding philosophy behind this event was that those attempting it respect the whole point of it.

    “It was to be a mark set without the aid of progressive technology, one that is completely about the rider and in such a way as to allow direct comparison between athletes regardless of the date or even era the attempt is made.

    “In the years immediately after my retirement, when I saw the record attempted with no stringent doping controls that kept samples, and aero seatposts and forks used, I was really disappointed that those who had been left in charge of this event had immediately lost sight of why it was established in the first place.

    “It would be great if the new UCI establishment got a firm grip on the rules for this potential Monument and defended them rigorously, and as Cancellara’s attempt is set to take place next spring, they haven’t got long to get on top of it.

    “If they don’t then it will be a tragic waste of an opportunity to create something quite beautiful, a single athletic mark in a time of massive uncertainty, that the fans can believe in at face value, something everyone could desperately use right now.”

    Nevertheless, Boardman is still pleased the record is set to end up back in the spotlight next year.

    He said: “I was delighted to hear that Fabian Cancellara was to attempt the athletes hour record as if they are not attempted, preferably by the very best in the sport, records just gather dust and die.

    “As for whether he can do it? I have no doubt a rider of his calibre can take the record and, in doing so, make it the Monument it should be – I’m rooting for him!”

    Discuss in the forum

    For more information on Boardman Bikes, or to see their 2014 range, visit www.boardmanbikes.com


    Read more at http://roadcyclinguk.com/racing/chris-boardman-backs-fabian-cancellara-to-break-hour-record-but-calls-on-uci-to-set-more-stringent-rules.html#ZoShJB6Wfz1VYgq8.99
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    LukasCPH

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    Re: The Hour record
    « Reply #68 on: October 27, 2014, 09:41 »
    It's not back it's dead.
    You have your opinion, and I completely respect that.

    I just happen to have a different opinion - whether it's because the heyday of The Hour was before I got into cycling, because I'm just easily excitable, or because I'm brainwashed by the Cookson's minions doesn't really matter: I won't change my opinion anytime soon.

    You think that the UCI's rule change killed the traditional Hour - fair enough, I can even follow you on that to some degree.
    But I think that before the rule change, even Cancellara was only 'considering' an attempt; now we have had Voigt do it, Brändle will do it soon, and many others have expressed a serious interest. In my opinion the rule change hasn't killed The Hour, it has reinvigorated it.

    Let's agree to disagree on this issue, and enjoy the athletic performances under the current rules. Whether we call them 'Hour Records' or 'Best Human Performance under UCI rules' is a semantic problem that needn't lead us into a quarrel.
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  • just some guy

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    Re: The Hour record
    « Reply #69 on: October 27, 2014, 10:57 »
    I agree Fus the Hour is not dead, it is just changed

    I would rather watch and read about attempts that sit around a bar and talk about the old days, when things were always better
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    Re: The Hour record
    « Reply #70 on: October 27, 2014, 11:17 »
    Yeah always the same catchphrase from those who have no arguments.

    "You are nostalgitards", "You are living in the past", "Grampa stories", etc etc. I pity you. If you can just read what I'm saying you'd quickly see it doesn't hold for a penny.

    Or in order to please you, I might just share this line from a Bob Seger song: "Call me a relic, call me what you will, say I'm old-fashioned say I'm over the heels. Today's music ain't got the same soul, I like that old time rock & roll" :P

    By the way it's just amazing that many here are bashing the UCI when it suits them but then when it matters they would always swear allegiance to whom it should.
    -------

    Many riders are interested in that "performance" now because it's within reach for many second-tier riders (provided the sponsors can pay for it, of course, that's an aspect that many of you ignore). Once Martin makes his "performance", nobody will ever go for it again...

    The greatness of the Hour record was its rarety. Only Cancellara interested in it (the real Hour) is what would have been so great about it. Sadly ... 
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  • « Last Edit: October 27, 2014, 13:36 by Echoes »

    LukasCPH

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    Re: The Hour record
    « Reply #71 on: October 27, 2014, 15:39 »
    "You are nostalgitards", "You are living in the past", "Grampa stories", etc etc. I pity you. If you can just read what I'm saying you'd quickly see it doesn't hold for a penny.
    I don't think I said this anywhere. Please do read my actual words.

    By the way it's just amazing that many here are bashing the UCI when it suits them but then when it matters they would always swear allegiance to whom it should.
    When the UCI discussed the rule change, I was against it. I wanted The Hour to be ridden under the old rules, on a Merckx-style bike[1].
    But, for better or worse, it is the UCI that makes the rules. I can disagree with them, I can strive to change them, but I have to at least acknowledge them and take them into account.
    And in my opinion there is no turning back now that Voigt has set a new benchmark. That can be applauded or beweeped, but it is a fact. And under these circumstanes I'd much rather follow the attempts that are to come than try to roll back the tide.

    Many riders are interested in that "performance" now because it's within reach for many second-tier riders (provided the sponsors can pay for it, of course, that's an aspect that many of you ignore). Once Martin makes his "performance", nobody will ever go for it again...

    The greatness of the Hour record was its rarety. Only Cancellara interested in it (the real Hour) is what would have been so great about it. Sadly ...
    Sosenka? Hutchinson? That British dude whose name I don't even know who got stopped by Cookson inventing a bio-passport requirement?


    Whatever I say, I won't convince you - and the other way around. Let's leave it at that, and use the thread to cover the actual athletic performances that are made.
     1. and please don't reply to say it isn't a Merckx-style - that's just the shortest way to refer to a particular bike setup, and everyone knows what is meant
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  • Armchair Cyclist

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    Re: The Hour record
    « Reply #72 on: October 27, 2014, 17:02 »
    Yeah always the same catchphrase from those who have no arguments.

    Total lack of respect for other participants in the debate.

    People do have an argument, regardless of whether you concur with it.  Your beef is not with us, it is with those who have exercised the authority to change regulations.  If you want to be rude and dismissive, go and take that attitude with them.
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  • Echoes

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    Re: The Hour record
    « Reply #73 on: October 28, 2014, 10:56 »
    and please don't reply to say it isn't a Merckx-style - that's just the shortest way to refer to a particular bike setup, and everyone knows what is meant.

    I reply to say that! Guess you are reading my comments on CN because I don't recall saying this here. The shortest way to refer to this particular bike setup is to say "normal bike."

    "Merckx-style bike" is an Anglo trick to show that that kind of bikes is not the normal bike and now on CN everybody seem inclined to believe that the counter-reform of 1996 was caused by Merckx's personality, which is staggering! In my language I've never heard it that way. Only on Anglophone websites ...

    Quote from:  Armchair Cyclist
    Total lack of respect for other participants in the debate.

    Caricaturing my comments by saying "talk about the old days, when things were always better", is that showing respect for a partipiant inn a debate you think?

    The worst insult for me. I'll always get angry when I'm reading such things. Can't help!
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    Re: The Hour record
    « Reply #77 on: October 30, 2014, 02:44 »
    Taylor Phinney

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/phinney-continues-lengthy-recovery-from-broken-leg
    Quote
    Yeah, I'm thinking about it, but I can talk about it and say I'm thinking about it and people love to make it a headline. There's a lot of people thinking about it. The bar was set, but it wasn't set that high.
      :lol
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    Re: The Hour record
    « Reply #78 on: October 30, 2014, 13:07 »
    interesting feature by Der Standard on today's attempt, including time lines, statistics and bike comparisons

    http://derstandard.at/2000007309371/Die-Rekordjagd-des-Kilometerfressers (german)
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  • LukasCPH

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    Re: The Hour record
    « Reply #79 on: October 30, 2014, 13:42 »
    First Voigt, now Brändle ...

    Makes me wonder if it's in the rules that Hour attempts must be made on a Thursday? ;)
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  • LukasCPH

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    Re: The Hour record
    « Reply #80 on: October 30, 2014, 13:51 »
    interesting feature by Der Standard on today's attempt, including time lines, statistics and bike comparisons

    http://derstandard.at/2000007309371/Die-Rekordjagd-des-Kilometerfressers (german)
    Good article, but - yes, I am that pedantic - with some factual errors. Voigt the rider with most Tour participations? I think not.
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    Re: The Hour record
    « Reply #81 on: October 30, 2014, 13:56 »
    the way they are paraphrasing it ("no one has participated in the Tour de France more often"), it is correct, I think, but the numbers are wrong (Hincapie, O'Grady and him have all taken part 17 times - not 13)
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  • LukasCPH

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    Re: The Hour record
    « Reply #82 on: October 30, 2014, 14:25 »
    the way they are paraphrasing it ("no one has participated in the Tour de France more often"), it is correct, I think, but the numbers are wrong (Hincapie, O'Grady and him have all taken part 17 times - not 13)
    I see - never trust anyone! :shh
    I believed their number of 13 to be correct, and thought 'hang on, that can't be right - Hincapie has 17'.
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  • Drummer Boy

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    Re: The Hour record
    « Reply #84 on: October 30, 2014, 21:07 »
    Happy Brändle took it

    ad Happy now everyoe on twitter can spell his name  :D
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  • Drummer Boy

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    Re: The Hour record
    « Reply #85 on: October 30, 2014, 21:16 »
    Today the headlines read:Brändle breaks Voigt's hour record as if Jen's had a lasting legacy.


    The fun part will be next time when they read, "Rider X breaks  Brändle's hour record.:D

    Good for him though. As he said in prior interviews, he saw a rare opportunity to garner what was admittedly some short-lived attention, and a place in the record books, so he went for it. I admire that more than all the Jib-jab provided by other riders who never got around to actually doing it.

    For now, it's "Brändle's" hour record.  :cool
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  • Drummer Boy

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    Re: The Hour record
    « Reply #86 on: October 30, 2014, 21:26 »
    It's just now occurred to me that this whole thing has become the inverse of what was the ongoing Andy Schleck countdown.

    In that instance, we counted up the days to see how long it would take for him to actually finish a race.

    With the Hour record, we're counting down the time it takes for someone to break it again. According to that NYvelocity tweet discussion, Voigt held it for all of 1008 hours.  :D


    Maybe Andy should give it a go? Then we could sublimely combine both polls!  :cool
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    just some guy

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    Re: The Hour record
    « Reply #88 on: October 31, 2014, 08:14 »
    this is great from pro cycling trumps

    https://vine.co/v/OM9xQMhuJuI
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    Re: The Hour record
    « Reply #89 on: October 31, 2014, 09:59 »
    I have read comments that claim the TV coverage was dull. I saw a few minutes of it and certainly it wasn't spectacular. I didn't see the whole event so what follows may have been done to some extent, I don't know.

    Given the amount of preparation required to do an hour record attempt, there is absolutely no reason not to have prepared short items to play intermittently during the period of 15mins to 45mins, showing those preparations and other relevant content.

    This way, the producers can give a bit more airtime to the bike sponsors, who seem to be the real drivers in this new period of record attempts, and also show the riders in interviews and some broader footage of their careers. While still young, Brändle has been around a while, after all. And why not show us bits of older record attempts? The Obree position still excites a lot of interest.

    Perhaps it is because the UCI wants to be the exclusive broadcaster. UCI-backed broadcasting is rarely sparkling and often has the rather neutered character of a televised Eurovision Song Contest.
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