collapse


just some guy

  • Fourth Generation humanoid bot
  • Hall of Fame'r
  • *
  • Country: 00
  • Posts: 30706
  • Liked: 10407
  • Awards: Best Avatar of 2016Reigning Spring Classics Prediction ChampJSG News Filter Award 2014Poster of 2014Thread of the Year 2013Most Helpful Member 2013Art of Brevity 2012Most helpful member 2012Best member of staff 2012
The Highlights Debate
« on: April 08, 2014, 09:02 »
Women's verse Men's highlight packages discussion

Ok so 1st off this is meant to be constructive, so if anyone involved in the production of the women's cycling highlights please read the topic in that was.

I will post 3 different video's soon from Flanders 2 are professionally put together and paid for bythe UCI,  the 3rd probably professionally put together and paid for by ....... the love of cycling I would say.

Now @UCIWomensCycling are using twitter to get live race info which is great and then video highlights come out, a few hours after the race. There was UCI highlights can not remember how long they took to come out, but they were produced. So highlights are not new, the speed is. But the issue is the quality and production. Inrng highlighted this after the 1ast one as did @velocast I thought I would wait a race or 2 as see. Here is the link to where inrng mentioned it  http://inrng.com/2014/03/thursday-shorts-10/

so to the videos

1st InCycleTV links to facebook short video I assume longer to come, incycletv highlight

2nd UCI womens highlights


3rd Cosmo Catalano


So have a watch a let me know what you think, as most know I love cycling women's,  men's we do not see much of the women's but the racing is generally much much more fun to watch less controlled. The issue is if you watch the highlights it would not seem so, they do not grab you and make you want to see more, the world we live in is fast paced, speed of information is key, but quality will hold peoples attention.

if Cosmo can produce videos that people hunt to watch, mthe UCI can do much better what say you?
  • ReplyReply
  • « Last Edit: April 08, 2014, 13:47 by Dim »
    Of course, if this turns out someday to be the industry standard integrated handlebar-computer-braking solution then I'll eat my kevlar-reinforced aerodynamic hat.

    Larri Nov 12, 2014

    AG

    • Monument Winner
    • *
    • Country: au
    • Posts: 6101
    • Liked: 3285
    • Awards: Winner, 2013 National Championships prediction gameFan of the Year 2013
    agreed

    I would watch womens cycling ... but its just too hard to find regular broadcasts, and I HATE highlights packages.

    However - I do love HTRWW which to me is not a traditional highlights package but more of another take on the race.   Maybe the UCI should pay Cosmo :D
  • ReplyReply

  • just some guy

    • Fourth Generation humanoid bot
    • Hall of Fame'r
    • *
    • Country: 00
    • Posts: 30706
    • Liked: 10407
    • Awards: Best Avatar of 2016Reigning Spring Classics Prediction ChampJSG News Filter Award 2014Poster of 2014Thread of the Year 2013Most Helpful Member 2013Art of Brevity 2012Most helpful member 2012Best member of staff 2012
    agreed

    I would watch womens cycling ... but its just too hard to find regular broadcasts, and I HATE highlights packages.

    However - I do love HTRWW which to me is not a traditional highlights package but more of another take on the race.   Maybe the UCI should pay Cosmo :D
    I guess that's the thing AG if all we get in 8 to 10 minutes, the package has to be fun, informative and wanting people to watch the next one.

    RvV via twitter sounded fun attacking, Binda even more so.

    you would have to known that before watching the highlights or you would not get that.
  • ReplyReply

  • lancasterke

    • Hot Prospect
    • Country: 00
    • Posts: 477
    • Liked: 467
    • Awards: Thread of the year 2015
    cosmo needs to get paid. head and shoulders above most cycling coverage full stop.

    he's great for people new to the sport and who know it well. i watch HTRWW regardless of whether i watched the race and am always a little sad if he's not doing a given race.

    he did a bunch of v good womens races over the winter

    womens races are often more aggressive and make better viewing but from a personal point of view. i know much less about the womens fields so i don't really appreciate them as much and there are many fewer opportunities to watch them to learn about the riders etc so vicious cycle.

    this is all slightly off point. but i'll go significantly out of my way to watch a mens race about 6 times a year and will watch total 1 or 2 womens races

    quality highlights packages are a great gateway.
  • ReplyReply

  • just some guy

    • Fourth Generation humanoid bot
    • Hall of Fame'r
    • *
    • Country: 00
    • Posts: 30706
    • Liked: 10407
    • Awards: Best Avatar of 2016Reigning Spring Classics Prediction ChampJSG News Filter Award 2014Poster of 2014Thread of the Year 2013Most Helpful Member 2013Art of Brevity 2012Most helpful member 2012Best member of staff 2012

    Dim

    • Grand Tour Winner
    • *
    • Country: gb
    • Posts: 8403
    • Liked: 3363
      • Velorooms
    • Awards: Race Preview of 2014Best Post 2012
    Im going to disagree on this.

    Cosmos videos are great, they are fun, give you an overview of the race but they are very much niche and in now way replace proper hightlights packages with commentary, and proper views of race development. Cosmo should just keep doing what hes doing. I certainly disagree that Cosmo should in some way do UCI highlights (or is better than UCI highlights). Cosmo is an acquired taste, some love him, some would rather watch traditional highlights. Bear in mind as well, the multinational element, there are a lot of people who are non-native english speakers for whom cosmo's accent, presentation, and talking speed would be incomprehensible.

    The UCI highlights, this is a massive step forward, short highlights within a few hours of the race, longer full highlights a few days later, and most people now have smart tv's or roku's or the like so watching youtube on your tv is pretty much the norm. Great moves forward from the UCI, and personally, I would rather watch traditional style highlights of the womens race than some suped up, pop version.

    ANd as a note, from what I saw, unless i missed it, Cosmo didnt say anything about the womens race, so doesnt even deserve to be in teh discussion. :D
  • ReplyReply

  • Dim

    • Grand Tour Winner
    • *
    • Country: gb
    • Posts: 8403
    • Liked: 3363
      • Velorooms
    • Awards: Race Preview of 2014Best Post 2012
    and having finally watched them, the UCI highlighs of womens flanders are excellent. would much rather have than that five minutes of cosmo garbling over it.
  • ReplyReply

  • just some guy

    • Fourth Generation humanoid bot
    • Hall of Fame'r
    • *
    • Country: 00
    • Posts: 30706
    • Liked: 10407
    • Awards: Best Avatar of 2016Reigning Spring Classics Prediction ChampJSG News Filter Award 2014Poster of 2014Thread of the Year 2013Most Helpful Member 2013Art of Brevity 2012Most helpful member 2012Best member of staff 2012
    Think you miss the point Dim,

    this is not Cosmo v UCI this is the quality of product and I had to give examples.

    the uci highlights are boring, funerals have more excitement.

    And they seemed to have missed half the action, unless twiter was wrong on race day

    there needs to be a story a narrative,  to capture a new audience.  And I am not saying Cosmo is better, or worse, but the production and narrative of 1 guy in his house is better than the UCIs product.
  • ReplyReply

  • Dim

    • Grand Tour Winner
    • *
    • Country: gb
    • Posts: 8403
    • Liked: 3363
      • Velorooms
    • Awards: Race Preview of 2014Best Post 2012
    Re: The Highlights Debate
    « Reply #8 on: April 08, 2014, 13:54 »
    The way I look at it, the UCI's product this year, is a million percent bigger than the UCI product last year.

    The UCI highlights are never going to be high tech, flashy and modern, they arent that kind of company. And their highlights also need to be tailored to all countries, all cultures, all languages, and all levels of cycling fan. AS such I actually liked their shorts highlights package, it was informative, gave an overview of the action, two interviews, podiums, in an easy to understand format. And considering how long weve waited for even basic highlights packages of the womens sport I think what we are getting in 2014 is a Mahhoosive step in the right direction. Im sure production values will increase (we have to bear in mind it very much depends on what footage they were actually given by the host broadcasters), bear in mind a fuller highlights package of about 30 minutes will appear eventually as it did with the previous rounds.

    Cosmo, while his stuff is fun and entertaining, I dont watch it because for me it doesnt give enough of the racing, and is overdominated by him trying to be funny rather than focussing on whats important.

    The UCI packages are exactly what I would expect from a rather serious (and slightly old fashioned) organisation that is trying to provide balanced highlights viewable in multiple regions and with commentary thats understandable for those even with limited English. I think they do a good job, and I like them. And like I say, huge improvement on what weve had in the past.
  • ReplyReply

  • AG

    • Monument Winner
    • *
    • Country: au
    • Posts: 6101
    • Liked: 3285
    • Awards: Winner, 2013 National Championships prediction gameFan of the Year 2013
    Re: The Highlights Debate
    « Reply #9 on: April 08, 2014, 14:32 »
    I disagree  :D

    because its better than last year we should just be happy?   

    Wtih a 7 minute highlight package that looks crap and doesnt really reflect the race that much?

    If that is the UCI promoting and improving womens cycling then we are in a world of trouble. 


    A proper highlights package, a deal with the networks that they will SHOW THE FREAKING FINISH OF THE RACE WHEN THEY ARE ALREADY THERE AND SHOWING THE MENS RACE, someone who actually gives a sh*t ... any of these might help.

    Saying 'well its way better than last year'  doesnt make it good.
  • ReplyReply

  • KeithJamesMc

    • Road Captain
    • Country: gb
    • Posts: 1696
    • Liked: 1396
    Re: The Highlights Debate
    « Reply #10 on: April 08, 2014, 14:38 »
    The objective of the exercise is to get Womens racing on TV, for this:
    - a 26-min highlights package is essential

    The summary is just for YouTube or perhaps those "sporting round-up" shows you see occasionally.

    I don't think it is possible to jump from zero coverage to live coverage without a lot of money being plowed in ie paying the sports channels to broadcast it.

    I'm with Dim - you improve, reassess and then move onto the next goal.

  • ReplyReply

  • AG

    • Monument Winner
    • *
    • Country: au
    • Posts: 6101
    • Liked: 3285
    • Awards: Winner, 2013 National Championships prediction gameFan of the Year 2013
    Re: The Highlights Debate
    « Reply #11 on: April 08, 2014, 14:44 »
    not saying we expect live coverage for the race ...

    but for THIS race ... the tv cameras and infrastructure were all there.  They were already broadcasting AT THE TIME. 

    Asking the organisers to put just 1 camera there for the last 200 metres would have been what I would expect from the Cycling Body who is supposed to represent them ...
  • ReplyReply

  • Dim

    • Grand Tour Winner
    • *
    • Country: gb
    • Posts: 8403
    • Liked: 3363
      • Velorooms
    • Awards: Race Preview of 2014Best Post 2012
    Re: The Highlights Debate
    « Reply #12 on: April 08, 2014, 15:09 »
    Wtih a 7 minute highlight package that looks crap and doesnt really reflect the race that much?



    There will be a 30 minute package. But not straight away, they have to wait for it from the host broadcaster, and depends what pictures they get from them.
  • ReplyReply

  • Gotland

    • Hot Prospect
    • Country: se
    • Posts: 470
    • Liked: 397
    • Awards: New Member of the Year 2013
    Re: The Highlights Debate
    « Reply #13 on: April 08, 2014, 19:46 »
    not saying we expect live coverage for the race ...

    but for THIS race ... the tv cameras and infrastructure were all there.  They were already broadcasting AT THE TIME. 

    Asking the organisers to put just 1 camera there for the last 200 metres would have been what I would expect from the Cycling Body who is supposed to represent them ...

    Well *cough* since women cycling lacks *market value*  and using *market logic* it's more value for the consumer to watch Fabs taking a pee live, rather than watching Ellen van Dijk going for a win ;)
  • ReplyReply
  • "Emma is Queen of consistency" Peloton Watch

    Ram

    • Grand Tour Winner
    • *
    • Country: 00
    • Posts: 7816
    • Liked: 907
    • Awards: Best Opening Post 2012Member you would most like to meet in real life 2012
    Re: The Highlights Debate
    « Reply #14 on: April 08, 2014, 23:10 »
    *cough* right back at you, are you arguing differently? Talk all about *gender equality* and some similar, sport has been about money for a long time now. Also, Cancellara taking the pee is so 2013.... he won a four up sprint this time.

    Your argument has been that every race deserved it. Fine, if someone with the money bags funds/subsidises it. In this case, the infrastructure's there. But then again, it's up to the host broadcaster to decide whether something goes live or not, as there will be costs incurred to go live too. 30 minute highlights package is fine for a sport in its professional infancy. At least it's not only on a programme like transworld sport.

    And FWIW, if all races were shown live, most would tend to be more boring. 30 minute highlights and twitter tend to make even a sh*t race exciting, even flat sprint stages. Much like the Brazilian football commentaries. Why do I say so? I've had only 30-40 min highlights of WT races for a year now, and it's non stop action. Start to finish.... if only.
  • ReplyReply
  • « Last Edit: April 08, 2014, 23:29 by Ram »

    Gotland

    • Hot Prospect
    • Country: se
    • Posts: 470
    • Liked: 397
    • Awards: New Member of the Year 2013
    Re: The Highlights Debate
    « Reply #15 on: April 09, 2014, 06:26 »
    Nope RAM my argument was if the infrastructure is there why not use it? Then I got some *market* bullsh*t argument thrown at me.

  • ReplyReply

  • Ram

    • Grand Tour Winner
    • *
    • Country: 00
    • Posts: 7816
    • Liked: 907
    • Awards: Best Opening Post 2012Member you would most like to meet in real life 2012
    Re: The Highlights Debate
    « Reply #16 on: April 09, 2014, 13:43 »
    Money spent is real, and it's the main reason women's cycling isn't live. Let's not use the word market as for some reason it's a phobia... interest in the race?

    Why do you think it's not telecast live?
  • ReplyReply

  • KeithJamesMc

    • Road Captain
    • Country: gb
    • Posts: 1696
    • Liked: 1396
    Re: The Highlights Debate
    « Reply #17 on: April 09, 2014, 13:57 »
    but for THIS race ... the tv cameras and infrastructure were all there.  They were already broadcasting AT THE TIME. 

    What infrastructure?

    - presumably most of the cameras and infrastructure were provided by the host broadcaster (Sporza?) who have the rights to the mens race not the womens race. I can't see either the UCI or Flanders Classics owning much TV infrastructure.

    The last 200m?

    - that was not where the action was, it was when the winning break was formed and couldn't be chased. There is nothing more boring than seeing someone solo over the line without the story of "How the race was won"

  • ReplyReply

  • Gotland

    • Hot Prospect
    • Country: se
    • Posts: 470
    • Liked: 397
    • Awards: New Member of the Year 2013
    Re: The Highlights Debate
    « Reply #18 on: April 09, 2014, 14:58 »
    Funny how the *market* argument is all a sudden not valid anymore. Especially when applied to a non-favourable situation. I guess when competing at a competitive market such as VR. The first thing that goes down the bottomless pit is intellectual honesty ;)
  • ReplyReply

  • froome19

    • Classics Winner
    • Country: gb
    • Posts: 4926
    • Liked: 2029
    • Awards: 2015 National Championships Prediction Game Champion
    Re: The Highlights Debate
    « Reply #19 on: April 09, 2014, 15:13 »
    Guys, lets just tone it down a little please  :cool

    It is a fair discussion and one which seems to have caused a bit of heat. I personally believe the UCI are doing their job well, they are in charge of putting it out there and that is what they are focusing on. Glamming coverage up and making it to match the men's level and depth of coverage is something which they should leave for others (of course if they have unlimited resources they go ahead, but probably better to focus on other things).
  • ReplyReply
  • RIP Keith

    Ram

    • Grand Tour Winner
    • *
    • Country: 00
    • Posts: 7816
    • Liked: 907
    • Awards: Best Opening Post 2012Member you would most like to meet in real life 2012
    Re: The Highlights Debate
    « Reply #20 on: April 09, 2014, 15:28 »
    Meh, tried to be civil. As I've learnt now from intellectually higher beings, only one PoV is valid in this case.
  • ReplyReply

  • Slow Rider

    • Classics Winner
    • Country: nl
    • Posts: 2591
    • Liked: 2454
    Re: The Highlights Debate
    « Reply #21 on: April 09, 2014, 15:32 »
    Sporza was taping it, and was broadcasting. It would have been very simple for them to ocasionally switch between mens and womens races, especially in the period where the mens race hadn't really taken off yet. Indeed, the market argument works here: most Belgians are not interested in womens cycling. This is a vicious cycle: no coverage means no money and no young girls getting into the sport. No money and talented riders starting means no top Belgian women cyclists, which in turn reduces the coverage the sport gets.

    Compare that to NL: here, the sport is much bigger. Leontien van Moorsel was a big sports hero who helped inspire people such as Vos and Van Dijk to take up the sport. Those are now some of the biggest names in the sport, which increases sponsors' interest and coverage (3 top teams from NL). Similarly, in the UK most women get into the sport via the track, which is also for women a big sport there.

    As for the UCI, their highlights are decent enough. They could do a lot more of course, but this and the half-hour highlights are good. I can't blame them for much regarding providing coverage/highlights, not much to complain about. In other aspects, they should be doing much more though. But that is for a different topic.
  • ReplyReply

  • just some guy

    • Fourth Generation humanoid bot
    • Hall of Fame'r
    • *
    • Country: 00
    • Posts: 30706
    • Liked: 10407
    • Awards: Best Avatar of 2016Reigning Spring Classics Prediction ChampJSG News Filter Award 2014Poster of 2014Thread of the Year 2013Most Helpful Member 2013Art of Brevity 2012Most helpful member 2012Best member of staff 2012
    Re: The Highlights Debate
    « Reply #22 on: April 25, 2014, 16:35 »


    makes some points which fit in here very well
  • ReplyReply

  • just some guy

    • Fourth Generation humanoid bot
    • Hall of Fame'r
    • *
    • Country: 00
    • Posts: 30706
    • Liked: 10407
    • Awards: Best Avatar of 2016Reigning Spring Classics Prediction ChampJSG News Filter Award 2014Poster of 2014Thread of the Year 2013Most Helpful Member 2013Art of Brevity 2012Most helpful member 2012Best member of staff 2012
    Re: The Highlights Debate
    « Reply #23 on: August 09, 2014, 08:22 »
    finally a really good package -
  • ReplyReply

  •  



    Top
    Back to top