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Jimmythecuckoo

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TV Commentators rated...
« on: April 25, 2012, 17:08 »
So who are the good and the bad?

Do you prefer a soloist or a double act?

For me David Harmon and Sean Kelly take some beating. Both know their stuff and are reasonably good with rider recognition.

They are the cream of the Eurosport crop although Sean is sometimes difficult to draw out over doping and I can see why people watching on international would think their is a GB/IRL bias. But hey we are doing ok at the moment as a nation so we deserve a bit of nepotism!

The second choice team on this channel is Carlton Kirby and Brian Smith. Smith pretty much carries our Carlton who is a bit whimsical and generally chats about nonsense!

Never thought I would say it, but I miss David Duffield !!! CHAPEAU!

Phil Liggett and Paul Sherwen were always the Daddies but I find them a bit too Americanised (or should I say Americanized) nowadays.

Too many cliches that havent evolved or updated.

What does everyone else think?
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    L'arri

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    Re: TV Commentators rated...
    « Reply #1 on: April 25, 2012, 17:23 »
    So who are the good and the bad?

    Do you prefer a soloist or a double act?

    For me David Harmon and Sean Kelly take some beating. Both know their stuff and are reasonably good with rider recognition.

    They are the cream of the Eurosport crop although Sean is sometimes difficult to draw out over doping and I can see why people watching on international would think their is a GB/IRL bias. But hey we are doing ok at the moment as a nation so we deserve a bit of nepotism!

    The second choice team on this channel is Carlton Kirby and Brian Smith. Smith pretty much carries our Carlton who is a bit whimsical and generally chats about nonsense!

    Never thought I would say it, but I miss David Duffield !!! CHAPEAU!

    Phil Liggett and Paul Sherwen were always the Daddies but I find them a bit too Americanised (or should I say Americanized) nowadays.

    Too many cliches that havent evolved or updated.

    What does everyone else think?

    Absolutely cannot stand Kelly. Not because of the content but because with a few rare exceptions - when they must have pumped him full of amphetamines backstage - he is ponderous, taciturn and after so many years living abroad his command of English has deteriorated appallingly.

    Kirby talks rubbish a lot of the time and he is parochial beyond belief but I can put up with that.

    Smith and Backstedt are both very good.

    Liggett and Sherwen can and will fill a thread all of their own.

    I like Wuyts on Sporza. He's the Flemish equivalent of Alex Murphy and Ray French. I'm not keen on De Cauwer but that's more about the personality than the voice / insight combo. As a result of all that Wuyts love, when I speak the few words of Dutch that I know, I pronounce everything with his accent.

    I don't mind Beenkens on RTBF - though I think he does cut people off too much. However, I adore Cédric Vasseur, whose French is much easier on the ear and he's the epitome of a good expert commentator, wearing a suit despite being invisible for 99% of the broadcast and yet he's not above getting excited himself.

    Bruwier's guttural French is pretty hideous, though some of his one-liners are priceless, for example when Sky's Ian Stannard was driving a group in one of the Flemish Classics, he growled: "Look at Stannard. He's, he's, this boy is built like a docker!" ;D

    Gazzetta TV is all chummy love and phone-ins and never shuts up but I forgive them because of the quality of the image on the Internet feed. ;)
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    Re: TV Commentators rated...
    « Reply #2 on: April 25, 2012, 17:37 »
    I only half listen to them nowadays. i refer to open 2 streams and a page with the team sheet and watch the action with not even half an ear on commentary. The difference of the feeds usually means they are not synchronised and it is usually ES that is behind so i know what happened before ES.

    With the exception of the Muppets(Sherwin/Ligget) the rest are splitting hairs for me.

    I like Kelly's no BS take in it all. I dont care for his mix of TipperaryEnglish mixed with European languages. Kelly left school at 14 so i think he is doing ok on that front.

    Davide Cassani can be very dry but funny. The others on RAI i dont much care for. The Italians are as big a flag waving nation as the rest and when you come from a small nation it gets boring.
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    Re: TV Commentators rated...
    « Reply #3 on: April 25, 2012, 17:50 »
    the dude to Turkey on his own for ES is really good Martin McDonald

    and the 2 guys doing the live streaming for the USA procycling chanllenge I enjoyed for their enthusiastic approach

    I usually have Sporza on when I can I only get the ideas of what they are saying - good background noise to watch the race.

    Also The Swedish ES guys are really really good - The love all cycling and have great knowledge of history - their Giro coverage is the best I have heard - one is Italian by birth and his old man loved Cycling so you get heaps of personal storys about Coppi etc   
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    Anthony Moan

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    Re: TV Commentators rated...
    « Reply #4 on: April 25, 2012, 18:49 »
    As a guy who learned English watching po.. movies, just do not care what they are talking about.
    Kelly should be arrested, it is painful to much painfull :fp
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    Re: TV Commentators rated...
    « Reply #5 on: April 25, 2012, 19:44 »
    As a result of all that Wuyts love, when I speak the few words of Dutch that I know, I pronounce everything with his accent.
    Speaking of which, is it standard Dutch/Flemish to swallow the final "n" in a word, or is that a Wuyts (or is it de Cauwer) specialty? Example: "Tom Boone gaat de Ronde va Vlaandere winne!"


    I only have one channel that regularly broadcasts cycling - Danish TV2. Ritter & Rolf (and occasionally Leth) are alright. Rolf gets a bit too egocentric once in a while, but it's become much less than in previous years. Ritter is very knowledgeable, and they're both very good in recognising riders. Leth is somewhat out of date on current riders, but he's simply a legend in his own right.

    Other than that, when I watch a race (internet stream), I try to find a stream from the country the race is in: Gazzetta TV for RCS races, Sporza for the spring classics (even Amstel and Roubaix mostly), and so on. Obviously my command of Flemish is only so-so, and my command of Italian is even less, so to me pretty much everything those commentators say sounds very intelligent...
    One thing I love about the Belgian races is that they have one reporter on a moto riding in front of the front group or peloton, reporting directly from the road. This ought to be tried for other races as well, although it's probably best suited to a chaotic classic.
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    L'arri

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    Re: TV Commentators rated...
    « Reply #6 on: April 25, 2012, 23:00 »
    Speaking of which, is it standard Dutch/Flemish to swallow the final "n" in a word, or is that a Wuyts (or is it de Cauwer) specialty? Example: "Tom Boone gaat de Ronde va Vlaandere winne!"

    I'm not the best person to answer that but it does seem to be an Oostvlaanderen thing. It's like the double 't' in parts of Germany or any sort of 't' in my home region. Just a local thing. ;)
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  • DinZ

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    Re: TV Commentators rated...
    « Reply #7 on: April 25, 2012, 23:36 »
    the dude to Turkey on his own for ES is really good Martin McDonald


    was just coming on here to say that. did not know who he was but watching the race on streams the last couple of nights and been impressed with him
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    Re: TV Commentators rated...
    « Reply #8 on: April 26, 2012, 00:12 »
    Wuyts & Vannieuwkercke the golden duo of commentating. The way they speak Dutch/Flemish is brilliant, its friendly, full of respect and entertaining to me. Flemish is waaaaay more polite than Dutch, plus they know so much about cycling.

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  • L'arri

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    Re: TV Commentators rated...
    « Reply #9 on: April 26, 2012, 08:28 »
    Wuyts & Vannieuwkercke the golden duo of commentating. The way they speak Dutch/Flemish is brilliant, its friendly, full of respect and entertaining to me. Flemish is waaaaay more polite than Dutch, plus they know so much about cycling.

    Yes, indeed. For me, it can be summarised by the way Wuyts insists on saying "Ladies and Gentlemen" all the time.

    It's also nice to watch them as vox populi in other sorts of TV formats which are not live race commentaries.

    However, as an Anglophone I do find that Karl can be far too easy with his use of English swear words, presumably because the fact that they're in a foreign language takes away some of the impact of them on both him and his audience.
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  • kanari

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    Re: TV Commentators rated...
    « Reply #10 on: April 26, 2012, 08:52 »
    Also The Swedish ES guys are really really good - The love all cycling and have great knowledge of history - their Giro coverage is the best I have heard - one is Italian by birth and his old man loved Cycling so you get heaps of personal storys about Coppi etc

    This. I wish everyone could understand Swedish, I think they are hands down the best commentators out there.
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    Re: TV Commentators rated...
    « Reply #11 on: April 26, 2012, 10:30 »
    Wuyts & Vannieuwkercke the golden duo of commentating. The way they speak Dutch/Flemish is brilliant, its friendly, full of respect and entertaining to me. Flemish is waaaaay more polite than Dutch, plus they know so much about cycling.

    I agree. I watch cycling almost exclusively on Sporza, mostly because the commentators are so much better than all others. Wuyts and Vannieuwekercke are great, and even if they are somehow unavailable Sporza seems to have an unlimited supply of great cycling commentators. I must say that when Nick Nuyens did co-commentary at a race recently (I forgot which one that was), he positively surprised me as well. Perhaps a nice career for him after he retires? ;)
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    Re: TV Commentators rated...
    « Reply #12 on: April 26, 2012, 10:41 »
    I really enjoy Wuyts, Vannieuwkercke and Karl on Sporza, especially for the classics.

    I also have a huge fondness for Rai Sport's coverage teams. They have great commentary, Paolo Bettini on a race moto, and of course Alessandra di Stefano at the finish to ask probing questions and treat Damiano Cunego like her own son.
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  • Jimmythecuckoo

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    Re: TV Commentators rated...
    « Reply #13 on: April 27, 2012, 08:45 »
    Ray French, now there's a commentator  :win
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  • L'arri

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    Re: TV Commentators rated...
    « Reply #14 on: April 27, 2012, 08:59 »
    Ray French, now there's a commentator  :win

    Yeah, jimmeke. Thought you'd appreciate the reference. ;) (Ray) French + Dutch = Wuyts.  :win
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    Re: TV Commentators rated...
    « Reply #15 on: April 27, 2012, 11:39 »




    Magic moments.
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  • sublimit

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    Re: TV Commentators rated...
    « Reply #16 on: April 27, 2012, 12:43 »
    I go with the Sporza commentators,  I need to learn the language though.       

    Rai's main guy sounds good and doesn't get on your nerves like some commentators  can.  But just as somebody mentioned earlier the amount of phone-ins can be a bit irritating on that one.       
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  • Il Grillo

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    Re: TV Commentators rated...
    « Reply #17 on: April 27, 2012, 16:02 »
    Speaking of which, is it standard Dutch/Flemish to swallow the final "n" in a word, or is that a Wuyts (or is it de Cauwer) specialty? Example: "Tom Boone gaat de Ronde va Vlaandere winne!"


    I only have one channel that regularly broadcasts cycling - Danish TV2. Ritter & Rolf (and occasionally Leth) are alright. Rolf gets a bit too egocentric once in a while, but it's become much less than in previous years. Ritter is very knowledgeable, and they're both very good in recognising riders. Leth is somewhat out of date on current riders, but he's simply a legend in his own right.

    Other than that, when I watch a race (internet stream), I try to find a stream from the country the race is in: Gazzetta TV for RCS races, Sporza for the spring classics (even Amstel and Roubaix mostly), and so on. Obviously my command of Flemish is only so-so, and my command of Italian is even less, so to me pretty much everything those commentators say sounds very intelligent...
    One thing I love about the Belgian races is that they have one reporter on a moto riding in front of the front group or peloton, reporting directly from the road. This ought to be tried for other races as well, although it's probably best suited to a chaotic classic.

    I'm from East-Flanders and yeah we often leave out the "n" in a word, but not in the word "van". It's a Flemish thing, not a Dutch thing.
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  • Sylvester

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    Re: TV Commentators rated...
    « Reply #18 on: April 27, 2012, 16:03 »
    Wuyts & Vannieuwkercke the golden duo of commentating. The way they speak Dutch/Flemish is brilliant, its friendly, full of respect and entertaining to me. Flemish is waaaaay more polite than Dutch, plus they know so much about cycling.
    Frankly, I strongly dislike both. Wuyts makes a lot of simple mistakes, is incredibly chauvinistic (his commentary during the last 10 km of the Ronde was once more incredible); he thinks everything Spanish/Kazakh/exotic is suspicious, and talks too much (I don't have a problem with him criticizing or questioning Cobo's Vuelta performance, but he listed Froome as a sprinter during the first week, yet he didn't raise an eyebrow when he dropped everybody barring Cobo on Pena Cabarga). Vannieuwkerke just doesn't know a lot about cycling and is even more chauvinistic. I'd say they are neither friendly, nor full of respect, nor brilliant, nor entertaining, and often I'd like to mute them. But maybe that's just me.

    Renaat Schotte and José De Cauwer are ok; José knows his cycling, Renaat is a lot more low-profile than Wuyts. Carl Berteele, the motor guy, is also a good commentator, especially on the radio.

    The RAI commentary has been a revelation for me this year. Always to the point, calm, full of knowledge. Everything I'd like Flemish commentary to be.
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  • The Hitch

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    Re: TV Commentators rated...
    « Reply #19 on: April 27, 2012, 19:31 »
    By far far far the best ever are those dudes who did radio commentary for San Luis.

    For those who missed it, i am not exaggerating in the slightest when I say that they were screaming the news that the peloton was approaching the 50k to go mark as if they had won the lottery, at which point they passed it over to their man on the motorcycle who was practically crying from the emotion of the peloton having reached this milestone.

    For those who have heard the famous latin american - goooooooal screams, well EVERY sentence ended like that.

    Every Sentence would start fast and then they would start screaming the end.

    Like this

    Soy en el motooooooooooooo

    Con el pelotoooooonn

    Trienta kilometroooooooooos

    Trienta kilometros de competen ciaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!


    I also like the guys who did Universal sport for Giro in some of the youtube vids i see, and the dude who did Vuelta on his own for itv. It was good because they kept transfering to the studio where rendell a pro and boulting would discuss the race, and i got one over on rendell :D
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  • « Last Edit: April 27, 2012, 19:53 by The Hitch »
    Despite the self-serving data benders and associated propaganda to the contrary, I am led to believe that there are pockets of organised, highly sophisticated dopers, even within 'new age' cycling teams. Personally, I don't accept that the 'dark era' has ended, it has just morphed into a new guise.

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    Re: TV Commentators rated...
    « Reply #20 on: April 27, 2012, 23:36 »
    Aah, San Luis.


    MATIAS MEDICI TOP TOP TOP TOP TOP TOP TOP
    MEDICI VEINTE Y TRES TREINTE Y SEIS

    ULTIMO KILOMETRO CRISTIAN MARTINEZ
    ATENTO
    ATENTO
    AQUI VIENE EL HOMBRE DE SAN LUIS
    AQUI VIENE CRISTIAN MARTINEZ
    AHORA SI VA A VENIR MARTINEZ PARA ROMPER EL CRONOMETRO
    TOP TOP TOP TOP TOP PARA MARTINEZ

    AQUI VIENE RASMUSSEN RRRRRRASMUSSEN PARA TERMINAR SI SENOR MICHAEL RASMUSSEN TOP TOP TOP TOP PARA RASMUSSEN


    TRES DOS UNO

    ALBERTO CONTADOR ESTA EN CARRERA
    ALBERTO CONTADOR ESTA EN COMPETENCIA
    CONTADORRRRRRRRRR
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  • Sizzle

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    Re: TV Commentators rated...
    « Reply #21 on: April 28, 2012, 04:27 »
    I'm not a fan of any English language commentators, although I have been enjoying Martin Macdonald, the sole commentator at the Tour of Turkey.

    P&P - no need to explain, is there?
    David Harmon - I find him a twit. I'm not the kind of person he thinks he is broadcasting to.
    Sean Kelly - a bit long-winded and repetitive, but definitely the partner in the Harmon & Kelly duo that makes it tolerable.
    Carlton Kirby - I find him a twit.
    Magnus Backstedt - makes up for Kirby because he understands cycling.  An ok duo.
    SBS Aussie commentary is so-so, better than P&P, but I don't love it. Comes wrapped in Tomalaris and Tan, which is unbearable.

    I enjoy Sporza for the Spring Classics. Most of it goes over my head, but I have come to find their voices soothing.

    I enjoy Gazzetta for the Giro and other Italian races. I'm not sure what the difference there is between Gazzetta and Rai ... Gazzetta also have Paolo on the bike and many phonecalls.

    For me the trick is to choose commentary in a language I barely understand. That way all the nationalist bias, pathetic jokes and unwanted references go over my head and I'm left with their voices, rider identification and "Attenzione!" or "Ooh la la la" or "There is Phil himself" or some such alert if my attention is waning.

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  • Auscyclefan

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    Re: TV Commentators rated...
    « Reply #22 on: April 28, 2012, 04:30 »
    Matt Keenan is a very good Australian commentator although he can be a little 'sickly sweet' with the odd comment.
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  • - Australia's greatest sporting moment

    LukasCPH

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    Re: TV Commentators rated...
    « Reply #23 on: April 28, 2012, 09:43 »
    For me the trick is to choose commentary in a language I barely understand. That way all the nationalist bias, pathetic jokes and unwanted references go over my head and I'm left with their voices, rider identification and "Attenzione!" or "Ooh la la la" or "There is Phil himself" or some such alert if my attention is waning.

    This, very much.
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  • Auscyclefan

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    Re: TV Commentators rated...
    « Reply #24 on: April 28, 2012, 10:03 »
    For me the trick is to choose commentary in a language I barely understand. That way all the nationalist bias, pathetic jokes and unwanted references go over my head and I'm left with their voices, rider identification and "Attenzione!" or "Ooh la la la" or "There is Phil himself" or some such alert if my attention is waning.
    Does it shock you that commentators are, in your words, "nationalistic" when commentating to people about riders from that country? You're being silly.
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  • Zam

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    Re: TV Commentators rated...
    « Reply #25 on: April 28, 2012, 10:48 »
    I might as well be the one to post this

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  • sublimit

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    Re: TV Commentators rated...
    « Reply #26 on: April 28, 2012, 15:06 »
    Matt Keenan is a very good Australian commentator although he can be a little 'sickly sweet' with the odd comment.

    He has a kind of droning, monotone style of delivery from what little I've heard of this person.  He needs a sidekick or analyst to break up the monotony IMO.
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  • Dim

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    Re: TV Commentators rated...
    « Reply #27 on: April 28, 2012, 15:14 »
    Matt Keenan is a bit like painting by numbers, says the glaringly obvious a bit too much, but he didnt to a bad job in the vuelta riding solo which is always tough.

    Harmon, erm, take him or leave him, switches between saying the glaringly obvious and trying to ram his opinion down peoples throats. Was pretty annoyed when at the british nationals last year while he was doing the accouncing prior to the presentations he started harping on about lance, about how he was a doper to which i said rather too loudly "its the british natonals, can we not just have one lance free race" which recieved a fairly healthy applause. I agree with his opinion, shame he has only recently started giving it.

    Kelly. Love the guy as a cycling, but talks complete nonsense and his lack of english is embarrasing.

    backstead and smith, like both these guys, both bring something different too it and both are actively involved in cycling and know what its about.

    Carlton Kirkby, meh.
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  • Slow Rider

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    Re: TV Commentators rated...
    « Reply #28 on: April 28, 2012, 16:58 »
    Does it shock you that commentators are, in your words, "nationalistic" when commentating to people about riders from that country? You're being silly.

    Actually, yes, it does. Perhaps I'm old-fashioned, but I think sports commentators should try to avoid being too biased. Even when it involves riders of their own country. That's one of the few things I can complain about with Sporza: all the attention to Belgian guys, and Gilbert and Boonen foremost.

    It makes sense of course, since almost all of their viewers are Belgian, but I would personally prefer a bit more neutral commentary.
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  • The Hitch

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    Re: TV Commentators rated...
    « Reply #29 on: April 28, 2012, 17:02 »
    Carlton Kirkby, meh.

    Kirby can call a mean sprint though.
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