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FreeWheelin

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Sky
« on: May 02, 2012, 00:03 »
I was quite surprised by this article and I have been expecting massive debate about it... but unless I'm looking in the wrong spot I have not seen any.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/wiggins-wants-to-be-a-credible-tour-de-france-winner

If this is being discussed somewhere can someone point me in the right direction.
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  • « Last Edit: May 10, 2015, 12:58 by AG »

    AG

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #1 on: May 02, 2012, 00:39 »
    Interesting.

    Perhaps this debate should be in a different section?   or are we talking about a different kind of credibility here?
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  • FreeWheelin

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #2 on: May 02, 2012, 00:53 »
    Yeah, please move it to wherever it should go.
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  • AG

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #3 on: May 02, 2012, 01:43 »
    Quote
    It would be nice to be part of it in a positive way, because there aren’t a lot of Tour winners who you can believe in,” Wiggins told L’Équipe. “For the first time last year, you had a Tour winner who everyone could believe in [Evans – ed]. He is a fantastic ambassador for the sport, he works hard, he didn’t win by showing off, but with great determination. So to be able to follow on from somebody like him would be nice, rather than doing it after somebody had a positive test hanging over his head for a year or two.”

    big brave words from Brad there.   I actually like that he can bring it up and talk about it.  Its not everything ... but its better than worshipping at the feet of past winners who are questionable.

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  • Dr. Horrible the Mad Elephant Man

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #4 on: May 02, 2012, 02:23 »
    I find it extremely hard to believe that Wiggins is clean

    His words to me come across as someone who is no different to those who have come before (those dirty Spanish dopers), but is pretending to be better than them.

    These word do nothing to improve my opinion of Wiggins.

    If Wiggins is clean then he is a remarkable athlete the like of which the world has rarely seen.
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    Havetts

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #5 on: May 02, 2012, 02:37 »
    Atleast he takes a stance, that has been yet to be seen from a lot of other riders.
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  • Dim

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #6 on: May 02, 2012, 02:51 »
    Oh Bradley, Bradley, Bradley..

    I dont usually go near any discussions on Brad, ive long learnt its not worth my while. On one hand I get fans on one side saying im blinded by team sky etc, on the other hand I get Bradley getting upset for not backing him up. As far as Brads cleanliness goes, I havnt got a foggiest. Id love to believe he is clean, and there seems to be some presumption in some circles that I should assume hes clean because of the fansite, or sky or whatever.. How can you assume someone is clean without knowing them personally, without talking to them, without having that in depth knowledge that only close friends and family have (and how many dopers managed to keep their activities secret from even their closest families). Im not going to trust Brad just because "I should" but at the same time Im not going to assume he is doping based on the flimsiest of evidence.

    Ultimately sometimes I just wish he would say nothing, as he is not renowned for having a consistent approach. For years he was telling everyone how great lance was, now hes saying all the Tour winners lack credibility (although reading between the lines its clear that the credibility line is aimed purely at Contador and Landis, two riders have both been banned), and then supports Evans who's jawline alone is enough to raise questions.

    Then again, if he says nothing hes accused of avoiding the subject, backing the Omerta, or just not talking about it because he has a guilty conscience.

    Theres no winning.

    Personally, I would like the teams that claim to be clean, such as Sky and Garmin be a lot more open. Sky are great at putting all their power data for riders online, so lets see blood values for all the riders, lets see Garmin do the same. But then, of course, there are loads of internet scientists who will analyze them and turn them to what they want.

    Credibility.. For me, Contador has more credibility Lance and about as much as Andy Schleck.

    Meh.
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  • Ram

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #7 on: May 02, 2012, 03:42 »
    I'll give him credit for this one, even if it is softcock. If he can criticise Contador, then so be it and if he can criticise Armstrong, the again, so be it. At least he is taking a stance.
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  • DinZ

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #8 on: May 02, 2012, 03:55 »
    he does have a sense of humour, even if he is a grumpy arse


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  • benotti69

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #9 on: May 02, 2012, 08:37 »
    he does have a sense of humour, even if he is a grumpy arse



    Someone needs to have a word in Wiggin's ear.

    1. He should conduct himself properly in a press conference as he may be speaking directly to journalists, and i use that term oh so lightly, but he is really speaking to the fans of the sport.

    2. If the 'journalists' are not asking good questions he should take control of the situation and speak to the fans and tell them/us about the stage a little bit and and give us something about tomorrow.

    It is called being a professional.

    Great that he has a sense of humour, it is obvious his dislike of the people asking questions, but be big and professional and talk to the cameras.

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  • "ahaha, ever had the feeling you been cheated?" JL SF Jan'78

    DinZ

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #10 on: May 02, 2012, 08:51 »
    Someone needs to have a word in Wiggin's ear.

    1. He should conduct himself properly in a press conference as he may be speaking directly to journalists, and i use that term oh so lightly, but he is really speaking to the fans of the sport.

    2. If the 'journalists' are not asking good questions he should take control of the situation and speak to the fans and tell them/us about the stage a little bit and and give us something about tomorrow.

    It is called being a professional.

    Great that he has a sense of humour, it is obvious his dislike of the people asking questions, but be big and professional and talk to the cameras.

    to be fair to Brad this is an edited version showing his non serious answers, i have not seen the full interview which may (or may not) have been more professional.
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  • benotti69

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #11 on: May 02, 2012, 09:03 »
    to be fair to Brad this is an edited version showing his non serious answers, i have not seen the full interview which may (or may not) have been more professional.

    Would like to see the full unedited version.

    But the journos from that clip were idiots and it is not easy to take their questions seriously when they are asking such crap and not respecting each other and not letting one ask a question before asking theirs. Such BS. But Wiggins did not seem to rise above it. But if there is a longer version i would like to see it.

    He does have a sense of humour and maybe what we do see of him through the cycling media is not his fault but his twitter sure aint painting a good picture either.

     

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  • L'arri

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #12 on: May 02, 2012, 10:05 »
    Would like to see the full unedited version.

    But the journos from that clip were idiots and it is not easy to take their questions seriously when they are asking such crap and not respecting each other and not letting one ask a question before asking theirs. Such BS. But Wiggins did not seem to rise above it. But if there is a longer version i would like to see it.

    He does have a sense of humour and maybe what we do see of him through the cycling media is not his fault but his twitter sure aint painting a good picture either.

    I felt that the journos were half joking, half trying to provoke him into giving them an interesting headline, using the two-faced Janus technique of which journos are masters.
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  • Cycling is a Europe thing only and I only watch from Omloop on cause I am cool and sh*t
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    Arb

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #13 on: May 02, 2012, 11:01 »
    If Wiggins is clean then he is a remarkable athlete the like of which the world has rarely seen.

    Just like Evans :D Two of them in consecutive years!

    Everyone can just say Contador was the only filthy doper at the top, that's why he won. I think we will have the "cleanest Tour ever" rubbish from 2011 back again this July.
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  • just some guy

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #14 on: May 02, 2012, 11:23 »
    Just like Evans :D Two of them in consecutive years!

    Everyone can just say Contador was the only filthy doper at the top, that's why he won. I think we will have the "cleanest Tour ever" rubbish from 2011 back again this July.

    nothing wrong with cleanest tour since ........ stuff

    they were riding much slower up the same Cols for many years

    cleanest I buy that for a dollar

    but cleaner than what ?

    Since blokes were sleeping with heart monitors and wind trainers in their rooms.

    so not clean but cleaner sure but in the same way 2010 was cleaner  ;)
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  • Of course, if this turns out someday to be the industry standard integrated handlebar-computer-braking solution then I'll eat my kevlar-reinforced aerodynamic hat.

    Larri Nov 12, 2014

    Ram

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #15 on: May 02, 2012, 11:39 »
    I've always had issues with cyclists' personal hygiene, hopefully they're cleaner nowadays. Can't imagine a soap dodging, 200km riding sweaty arse walking up to me.
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  • Arb

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #16 on: May 02, 2012, 11:40 »
    nothing wrong with cleanest tour since ........ stuff

    they were riding much slower up the same Cols for many years

    cleanest I buy that for a dollar

    but cleaner than what ?

    Since blokes were sleeping with heart monitors and wind trainers in their rooms.

    so not clean but cleaner sure but in the same way 2010 was cleaner  ;)

    No one says "cleaner", they talk in absolutes, e.g. "dark old days". No one is going to say that 2007 was cleaner than 2005 was cleaner than 1996, because that's an admission that it's still not "clean".

    When they say "cleanest" they mean in terms of who is doping, not to what extent individuals are doping.
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  • jimmythecuckoo

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #17 on: May 02, 2012, 15:08 »
    He seems to me to be weary of the same old questions and the same old names coming up in press conferences.

    The issues have been around for years and if anyone thinks it wont take years for them to go away then they are naive.



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  • The Hitch

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #18 on: May 03, 2012, 13:04 »
    No one says "cleaner", they talk in absolutes,

    Reminds me of when the ex Mapei boss says that Evans is the cleanest rider of the last decade, which sort of implies that everyone else has been doping, but Evans hasn't, (unless of course Evans is just doping less), because why else would Evans be cleaner than the other clean riders.

    Obviously the discussion as to whether Evans is doping or not is a different one, and I don't mean to hijack this one, nor deny that his defenders to have an argument or 2.

    But he does have some major points against him as well, so for someone to come out and say that everyone knows he is clean, can only hurt their credibility.

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  • Despite the self-serving data benders and associated propaganda to the contrary, I am led to believe that there are pockets of organised, highly sophisticated dopers, even within 'new age' cycling teams. Personally, I don't accept that the 'dark era' has ended, it has just morphed into a new guise.

    benotti69

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #19 on: May 03, 2012, 15:33 »
    Wiggin's latest blog for the guardian is up.

    No negative comments are allowed.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2012/may/02/bradley-wiggins-winning-mentality
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  • L'arri

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #20 on: May 03, 2012, 15:42 »
    Wiggin's latest blog for the guardian is up.

    No negative comments are allowed.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2012/may/02/bradley-wiggins-winning-mentality



    "All aboard the express hype train to Paris, calling at: Dauphiné Libéré Parkway, Liège Central and Paris. This train terminates at Paris."
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  • Jamsque

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #21 on: May 03, 2012, 18:06 »


    "All aboard the express hype train to Paris, calling at: Dauphiné Libéré Parkway, Liège Central and Paris. This train terminates at Paris."
    Choo choo, mother effers!
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  • ram

    Re: Sky
    « Reply #22 on: May 03, 2012, 18:52 »
    I've booked me ticket, when's it arriving?
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  • just some guy

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #23 on: May 03, 2012, 18:54 »
    I've booked me ticket, when's it arriving?

    Vuelta 2013 ?
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  • ram

    Re: Sky
    « Reply #24 on: May 03, 2012, 18:56 »
    That's Contador, not Wiggo.
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  • just some guy

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #25 on: May 03, 2012, 19:06 »
    Real talk: Wiggins has been working on his acceleration, and it sounds like the vast majority of his training between now and the Tour is climbing. He still has a lot to prove in that department, but so far this year he has done everything else right.

    Wiggins is the number 1 Favorite for the tour as we speak

    He has a great team around him with Mick, Uran, Richie, Götland ?, Cheese  - the problem is Cav but Cavs helpers will be great help for Brad.

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  • L'arri

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #26 on: May 03, 2012, 19:09 »
    This is why I love VR. First time I have ever seen a doping-related thread "go straight". Never thought I'd say this but: take it back to Men's Road Cycling, people! ;D
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  • flicker2.0

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #27 on: May 03, 2012, 19:30 »
    Never saw any problem with Brad. I like how he deflected the barrage of nonsense from the French journalists. Why do they waste his time, when he deserves a break.
    I hope he wins the tour. He is clean, I know it.
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  • Dr. Horrible the Mad Elephant Man

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #28 on: May 04, 2012, 04:10 »
    Only Wiggins knows if he is clean or not and if he has eaten some steak recently he might not know it either.
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  • Capt_Cavman

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #29 on: May 04, 2012, 11:24 »
    Only Wiggins knows if he is clean or not and if he has eaten some steak recently he might not know it either.
    I think you are confusing 'being clean' with 'able to pass a dope test'.

    Ideally, these two things would be more closely related than they are.
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