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Of course, if this turns out someday to be the industry standard integrated handlebar-computer-braking solution then I'll eat my kevlar-reinforced aerodynamic hat.

Larri Nov 12, 2014

just some guy

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Re: Sky
« Reply #1891 on: March 02, 2017, 06:55 »
For those that missed yesterday

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/ukad-launch-damning-attack-on-team-sky-and-british-cycling-over-medical-practices/

The UKAD head also confirmed that significant amounts of triamcinolone had been ordered through British Cycling with the quantities ‘far more’ than what would be needed for one rider. It could not, however, been ascertained as to how many athletes have been given the substance.

“We’ve seen orders Team Sky and British Cycling that indicate that triamcinolone has been ordered," Sapstead said.

Committee chair Damian Collins asked Sapstead if the volume of triamcinolone ordered outweighed the doses legally prescribed to Bradley Wiggins for his approved TUES.

“Yes,” she replied. “Specifically, in relation to Bradley Wiggins, yes. There was far more. You would either think that it was an excessive amount of triamcinolone ordered for one person or quite a few people had a similar problem.”

UKAD’s remit in their investigation only covers the medical records of one rider – Bradley Wiggins

We’ve asked a wealth of people as to what was in the package, including Phil Burt, who put the package together, and he has no recollection whatsoever as to what he put in the package and neither does anyone else," she said.

"We are not able to confirm or refute that it contained Fluimucil," Sapstead said in relation to the package.

"We have asked for inventories and medical records, and we have not been able to ascertain that because there are no records. There are no records kept by Dr. Freeman. There are no records whatsoever of any treatment during the course of that event [Dauphine - ed.].

"Dr. Freeman kept medical records on a laptop and he was meant to adhere to Team Sky policy, that the other doctors followed, of uploading the medical records to a dropbox that all the doctors had access to," Sapstead said. "Then in 2014 we have been informed that his laptop was stolen.
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  • Yellow Peril

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #1892 on: March 02, 2017, 07:00 »
    Freeman pretending to be on the phone when doorstepped by Dan Roan and throwing a sickie yesterday, there is a reckoning to be had as far a this guy is concerned
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  • Giving my view on life, cycling and the desire to do a sub 26min 10mTT on the Isle of Man @JaunePeril

    just some guy

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    just some guy

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #1894 on: March 02, 2017, 07:09 »
    Freeman pretending to be on the phone when doorstepped by Dan Roan and throwing a sickie yesterday, there is a reckoning to be had as far a this guy is concerned

    His Dr Licence let alone the rest of it
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  • Jimmythecuckoo

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #1895 on: March 02, 2017, 11:34 »
    I am not usually so bothered by these things but the walls seem to be caving in a bit on Team Sky.
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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #1896 on: March 03, 2017, 13:14 »
    Quote
    A report on Thursday evening alleged that Freeman had “administered controversial medication, not just to riders but to staff, family and friends.” Dr Freeman did not respond when contacted by Cyclingnews.

    On Friday, Team Sky confirmed to Cyclingnews that they had been informed by Freeman that, as part of his British Cycling and Team Sky Manchester-based staff medical service, he treated some patients with triamcinolone. When contacted by Cyclingnews, UKAD refused to comment.

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/bradley-wiggins-doctor-provided-team-sky-staff-with-triamcinolone/
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  • just some guy

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #1897 on: March 05, 2017, 07:46 »
    The rumor is that Brailsford weigthloss came about from it  :)
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  • AG

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #1898 on: March 06, 2017, 01:00 »
    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/ukad-reveals-freeman-received-delivery-of-testosterone-in-2011/

    The UK Anti-Doping investigation into Team Sky has found evidence that Dr. Richard Freeman took delivery of a batch of testosterone patches at the Manchester velodrome in 2011, the Sunday Times has reported.

    but dont worry - the testosterone was sent in error

    :fp

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  • LukasCPH

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #1899 on: March 06, 2017, 09:50 »
    but dont worry - the testosterone was sent in error
    They meant it to Landis in 2006, but it somehow got ported into a wormhole?
     :S

    This is a tragic farce. It isn't even funny anymore.
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  • Cyclingnews Women's WorldTour Correspondent
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    Views presented are my own. RIP Keith & Sean

    LukasCPH

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #1900 on: March 06, 2017, 14:23 »
    That the tide is coming in and that key elements of their empire of lies are starting to fall to pieces is hilarious, over-due and can only be a good thing for the sport ....
    I agree on all that.

    But here's what's going to happen:
    When this breaks on the big media (probably in the run-up to the Tour), everyone in *uk will run scared from cycling for the next decade or so, if not longer.
    This is going to be as big a setback for cycling in Britain as Ullrich & Zabel being found out was in Germany. We're only now slowly recovering from that, and we're still not anywhere close to being where we were in ~2004, both in terms of teams and number of races.
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  • Mellow Velo

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #1901 on: March 06, 2017, 14:55 »
    I agree on all that.

    But here's what's going to happen:
    When this breaks on the big media (probably in the run-up to the Tour), everyone in *uk will run scared from cycling for the next decade or so, if not longer.
    This is going to be as big a setback for cycling in Britain as Ullrich & Zabel being found out was in Germany. We're only now slowly recovering from that, and we're still not anywhere close to being where we were in ~2004, both in terms of teams and number of races.

      I think you are right; probably more indefinitely than a decade, too.
     I knew any shiite from Sky would stick to *uk Cycling and by default the track, so have worried about it since day 1.
     That what really irks me.
      Funding will dry up.  A pity for the big prize money Women's races, as they will undoubtedly be the first to go.
     
     

     
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  • "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.

    LukasCPH

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #1902 on: March 06, 2017, 16:38 »
    I partly agree with what you say there ...

    Rather than "everyone" running scared, I think that all that we'll lose are the "golf-ists" who've discovered cycling in the last 20 or so years. They're the ill informed fans who've swallowed the whole "Tour is the key to cycling" mantra that was popularised by Armstrong and, more recently, Sky.

    Yes, that crowd has brought money into the sport - but it hasn't bought stability, security for riders or balance. So, if they - and a large portion of that related money - leave, then I see it as a good thing.

    Would it necessarily take the 13 or so years that it's taken for the impact of the Ullrich and Zabel incidents to wash through? I honestly don't know.
    One of the reasons why I'm unsure is the fact that Sky's focus is effectively singularly on the tour - whereas Zabel in particular rode year round. Add to this the fact that interest in the Tour is (admittedly anecdotally) less than it was in 2004 and I see a lesser impact than there was then,
    Also, remember that Germany is one of the traditional road cycling nations, whereas the UK is really a newcomer - so again, the impacts of loss are likely less than the German experience.

    Or, since I'm writing this from Canada and you're much closer to the action where you are, does the distance distort my view?
    Yes and no.

    In 2006, Germany had 13 UCI one-day races and 10 UCI stage races[1]. Last year, there were 6 one-day races and 1 stage race.
    There's the Grand Départ in Düsseldorf this year, and there'll be what starts as a German version of the Tour of Yorkshire from 2018 ... but it's only the very top level benefiting from those.
    What German cycling desperately needs are races like Rheinland-Pfalz-Rundfahrt, Rund um die Braunkohle or Regio-Tour. Races where the Continental riders (and lower) can get exposed to high-level competition and enthusiastic crowds in their home country.

    Even if the new D-Tour takes off well and becomes a 'real' race, that won't solve this deeper-running problem. There are teams trekking up hundreds of kilometres from Thüringen to Schleswig-Holstein, almost Denmark, in ~2 weeks to get beaten up by the Danish Conti teams, simply because there aren't any other races.
    The grassroots races need people to be interested in cycling for sponsors to be at all willing to front the money necessary even to run a race around the local church. Not to mention UCI races.

    The "golfists", as you call them, may not have supported the smaller races directly. But the smaller UCI races profited indirectly from the increased interest in cycling. They're gone now, and those weren't all newly-started races that jumped on the Telekom bandwagon. In fact, hardly any of them were - most had been around since the 80s or even the 70s.
    It will probably take another decade, at least, of cycling being regarded 'positively' in Germany just to get anywhere near the number of races (and riders) we had 10 years ago. And another decade after that for all this to filter down to the non-UCI level. And that's without roadblocks along the way. I'll say 2030-2035 until German cycling is in a good shape again.

    The #sky thing blowing up in everyone's faces just ahead of the Düsseldorf Grand Départ (because you know it will explode then) will do similar damage to British cycling. Already the Road Series isn't in as good a shape as it was ten years ago - that'll get worse.
    The races on the big stage (ToB, RideLondon, Yorkshire) will see smaller interest, Yorkshire will be discontinued by ASO as soon as it doesn't make money anymore. RideLondon is reliant on the cyclotourists, as is Velothon Wales; so those might disappear too.
    To get *uk cycling back to the pro-Sky levels, e.g. 2007, when it wasn't that much of a deal? Also around 2030-2035. To get it back to current levels? At least another 20 years. But probably not ever again.

    And what's more, since the Grand Départ is in Germany, we'll suffer the fallout of it here as well.


    Sky & co. deserve all that's coming to them.
    Cyclists in Britain, Germany, and around the world, most of whom just love the sport and haven't done anything untoward, don't deserve any of this.

    That's what's so tragic. :(
     1. and the Friedensfahrt had stopped just a year earlier
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  • Servais Knavendish

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #1903 on: March 06, 2017, 23:28 »
    Wow this is pessimists corner...

    Cycling in Britain is in good health.  TdY will be big again and great interest in both men's and women's tours.  Ride London is established and paricipation still ridiculously strong.  Yes tour series is  declining, but the novelty of city centre crits has naturally waned as tastes grow more sophisticated, and joe punter has grown wise to the lack of any of the big stars that they, as armchair and occasional fans, recognise from tv/ Olympics and yes the tour...  Plus the team over individual rider dynamic is weak.  Yes the British domestic scene has struggled, somewhat due to the influx of two or three personality led teams, that wanted to make it big quick, and lost interest and or funding... NFTO, one pro, etc.  Plus perhaps the weekend warrior level of interest might have peaked, but is still exponentially healthier than 10 years ago, with an infrastructure in terms of shops, products, suppliers, and facilities, unrecognisable from 2007.

    You speak with certainty about a pre Düsseldorf implosion, but look where we are after months of fleet streets finest doing little else... precisely nowhere, no smoking gun, and growing public apathy about a retired rider, and the legal dose of medicine. 

    You may be right, but on a more positive note you might not. Or regardless of Sky UK folk might continue to enjoy and enthuse about this great sport.
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  • AG

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #1904 on: March 07, 2017, 08:58 »
    I do agree that general interest is very high ... and likely wont crash just because Sky falls in a screaming heap.

    BUT

    unfortunately I do agree that funding will be hit hard - and that will set things back a long way.  The TdY is heavily based on that funding, and the general goodwill around cycling which is falling rapidly with the decline of reputation of Britains only 2 TdF winners.
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  • Yellow Peril

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #1905 on: March 07, 2017, 09:22 »
    Casual fans will move away. In the same way that some football fans only want to support  the team of the moment.

    Yes funding will tank, Germany has gone through a very long recovery process and hopefully will be a majopr player and source of sponsors going forward.

    As a long time supporter of cycling I'm not that bothered. On the one hand I thanks Sky for playing their part in bringing road cycling to the attention of thousands who wouldn't have otherwise given it a second thought but my love of road racing is a bit more universal than that.
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  • just some guy

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #1906 on: March 07, 2017, 09:44 »
    It might also make people fans of cycling not a team, which imho is a good thing
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  • Joelsim

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #1907 on: March 07, 2017, 10:30 »
    It might also make people fans of cycling not a team, which imho is a good thing

    Agree. I really don't think cycling's anywhere near as tribal as something like football. Football and other sports are all about teams, cycling is about riders far more. When Fabregas left Arsenal, the fans didn't start supporting Barcelona.

    I have a soft spot for WGG simply because of how they acted last year at that difficult time, otherwise completely neutral.

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  • Servais Knavendish

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #1908 on: March 07, 2017, 11:28 »

    unfortunately I do agree that funding will be hit hard - and that will set things back a long way.  The TdY is heavily based on that funding, and the general goodwill around cycling which is falling rapidly with the decline of reputation of Britains only 2 TdF winners.

    I have been thinking about the funding.  Sponsor money actually seems to be one of the weakest aspects at present anyway (and not just in GB).  Because of the nature of Sky as a business unit rather than a conventional sponsosrhip model the team is one of the few that are free of the yearly or bi-yearly scramble for fresh investors, new logos, new colourways, and new team names.  Fortunately some new investors have stepped up, but these are outnumbered already by those that have dropped away, and I dont think reliance on middle eastern wealth funds is necessarily a long term sustainable model. 

    Here we are with the season well and truly underway and one of our leading teams is hawking itself in China in an an attempt to replace its floor co sponsor.  You just can't see FC Barcelona or Man Utd having to do the same.

    Things look even bleaker beneath World Tour, with low calibre sponsosrs paying relatively small amounts, and few riders earning much more than a subsistence allowance.

    Races are not necessarily thriving either - ToBritain home page lists lead sponsors as the relatively low key Wiggle, Skoda, Adnams, and Eisberg - most notably the big Aviva sponsorship appears not to have been replaced.  TDY is even more scant - really only Yorkshire bank.

    The one British exception in GB has been HSBC's decisions to replace Sky at BC.  I wonder if their lawyers have been checking through the carefully crafted exit clauses, should there be a major issue.  Or in fact are they delighted to have picked up an incredibly popular sport for a very moderate investment compared with other activities with similar reach.

    So I understand this could get worse, but it is nor exactly a compelling model at present either.  That said the change in UK social behaviour sparked by Hoy, Cav, Wiggo, and yes Sky since the early 2000's is a legacy that will continue.

     :cool

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  • vayerism

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #1909 on: March 07, 2017, 11:36 »
    This is just wonderful.

    70 vials of kenacort - requires an injection, meaning its banned in and out of competition. Wiggins admitting to taking a "shot of corto" its hilarious
    testosterone - banned in all forms
    No record for flumicil.

    Its ove. Wiggins will get sanctioned
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  • just some guy

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #1910 on: March 07, 2017, 11:42 »
    This is just wonderful.

    70 vials of kenacort - requires an injection, meaning its banned in and out of competition. Wiggins admitting to taking a "shot of corto" its hilarious
    testosterone - banned in all forms
    No record for flumicil.

    Its ove. Wiggins will get sanctioned

    it might be over for Brailsford but Sky will continue until at least end of Froomes contract, and I seriously doubt BW will get any form of sanction 
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  • AG

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #1911 on: March 07, 2017, 13:26 »
    I doubt that he will get sanctioned



    but at least now we can get past the pretense of Sky being a clean team, marginal gains, transparency and all the other garbage.

    they are just the same as all the other teams out there
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  • cj2002

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #1912 on: March 07, 2017, 13:53 »
    they are just the same as all the other teams out there

    Now just hang on a minute...!















    No other team has PR that is this bad!
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  • He shook his head sadly and told me that endemic drug use had compelled him to give up a promising career. "Even one small local race, prize was a salami, and I see doping!" - Tim Moore: Gironimo (Riding the Very Terrible 1914 Tour of Italy)

    Mellow Velo

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #1913 on: March 07, 2017, 14:15 »
    it might be over for Brailsford but Sky will continue until at least end of Froomes contract, and I seriously doubt BW will get any form of sanction

    Difficult to see how Sky can continue as a "British brand" team, without SDB or someone similar at the helm.
    Without that stamp, it's only a matter of time, before sponsorship is pulled: no value for money.
    Given, as Servais points out, HSBC are now the BC sponsor, not Sky, it's definitely time for them to get the order of the boot, from Manchester.
    That cosy relationship can't come to an end quickly enough for me.
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  • just some guy

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #1914 on: March 07, 2017, 14:22 »
    Difficult to see how Sky can continue as a "British brand" team, without SDB or someone similar at the helm.
    Without that stamp, it's only a matter of time, before sponsorship is pulled: no value for money.
    Given, as Servais points out, HSBC are now the BC sponsor, not Sky, it's definitely time for them to get the order of the boot, from Manchester.
    That cosy relationship can't come to an end quickly enough for me.

    Would Fran Millar be similar enough for you in the DB spot.

    Agree they will need to become just another pro team, but GB roots
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  • cj2002

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #1915 on: March 07, 2017, 16:05 »
    Even now, the "British" team only has 8/28 British riders - so a little under a third. But then again it only reached a peak of 10 British riders (2011, 2012 and 2015).

    The Sky/BC tie-up has had a fantastic effect on our Olympic programme, and on the take-up of 'leisure' cycling in general - take the SkyRides for example.

    BC switching to HSBC helps put some distance between the two brands - not that either is having a great time right now. I can't imagine Fran Millar taking on the same sort of role as SDB - at least, not as public-facing. She'd be more likely to take on a Vaughters business/GM position, with someone else leading the team on the road (c.f. Wegelius at Garmin).
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  • cj2002

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #1916 on: March 07, 2017, 16:44 »
    https://cyclingtips.com/2017/03/interview-paul-kimmage-team-skys-charade-exposed/

    Kimmage on good form, as ever.

    The strangest thing is, this whole situation is making me warm to Chris Froome.
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  • Mellow Velo

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #1917 on: March 07, 2017, 17:47 »
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  • just some guy

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #1918 on: March 07, 2017, 17:51 »
    Get yer flame throwers ready......

    https://www.teamsky.com/article/team-skys-medical-and-anti-doping-practices

    can make flames hotter ?

    DB is going to stay until booted
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  • just some guy

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #1919 on: March 07, 2017, 17:55 »
    To sum up Brailsford
    There were mistakes made - much cut -
    but we do things the right way, trust us
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