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Carlo Algatrensig

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Re: Sky
« Reply #1920 on: March 07, 2017, 19:11 »
Given, as Servais points out, HSBC are now the BC sponsor, not Sky, it's definitely time for them to get the order of the boot, from Manchester.
That cosy relationship can't come to an end quickly enough for me.

With hindsight this should always have been the case. Even if both BC and the professional team were both sponsored by Sky there should have been no overlap of staff/facilities etc. The only link should have been that riders would ride for both. I can see it would be a big cost saving for both organisations to have such arrangements but I just don't think there should be that overlap between a national body and a professional team.

It could also lead to the muddying of waters regarding any investigations. From skys statement it would appear that BC and Team Sky shared ordering of medicines so when BC say they ordered 70 of something and Team Sky say they ordered 55 does that mean that 125 have been ordered or were 70 ordered of which 55 went to Team Sky.
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  • LukasCPH

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #1921 on: March 07, 2017, 23:32 »
    With hindsight this should always have been the case. Even if both BC and the professional team were both sponsored by Sky there should have been no overlap of staff/facilities etc. The only link should have been that riders would ride for both. I can see it would be a big cost saving for both organisations to have such arrangements but I just don't think there should be that overlap between a national body and a professional team.

    It could also lead to the muddying of waters regarding any investigations. From skys statement it would appear that BC and Team Sky shared ordering of medicines so when BC say they ordered 70 of something and Team Sky say they ordered 55 does that mean that 125 have been ordered or were 70 ordered of which 55 went to Team Sky.
    And that's the problem.
    Even if nothing untoward happened (yeah, right), all this "synergy" overlap is just too useful in blurring your tracks when doing something untoward.

    There's smoke coming out of Manchester, and they're still out there telling us there's not only no fire right now, but there has never been even a lit candle, nor will there be a spark at any time in the future.
    :serious
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    AG

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #1922 on: March 08, 2017, 01:43 »
    and while no real lines have been drawn from Wiggins and Sky to Froome ... this does bring back into question exactly what Froome took or was given and his treatment for his African disease and miraculous transformation from donkey to racehorse in 2011

    He went from being able to barely stay on his bike, to winning GT's in a single bound.


    And one of the most important points bought up by Kimmage there is Brian Cookson - who was president of British Cycling at the time.

    :fp
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  • Servais Knavendish

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #1923 on: March 08, 2017, 10:15 »
    and while no real lines have been drawn from Wiggins and Sky to Froome ... this does bring back into question exactly what Froome took or was given and his treatment for his African disease and miraculous transformation from donkey to racehorse in 2011

    He went from being able to barely stay on his bike, to winning GT's in a single bound.


    :fp

    True AG, but he doesn't seem that grateful for the 'leg up' does he?

    Not quite sure how his lack of support for the team / team prinipal could in his mind lead to a team pulling everything for him when he needs it in July.

    Intersting moments day by day, but I still dont see it as clearly as many posts above, still no knockout blow so far from my perspective...

    For example - In my mind Coe has been proved to be culpable of worse and is still head of World Athletics...

    Next few days will be interesting, and clearly there will now have to be rider or staff changes at TS sooner or probably later (end of season).
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  • cj2002

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #1924 on: March 08, 2017, 17:09 »
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/cycling/2017/03/08/increasingly-odds-rest-team-has-chris-froome-become-team-skys/

    An interesting take on the matter...

    The last question - whether DB and Froome can continue to co-exist - is also interesting. And if, as I suspect, DB keeps his seat and Froome goes elsewhere... where can he go? Who has the space and budget for a triple[1] Tour winner?!
     1. At least
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  • He shook his head sadly and told me that endemic drug use had compelled him to give up a promising career. "Even one small local race, prize was a salami, and I see doping!" - Tim Moore: Gironimo (Riding the Very Terrible 1914 Tour of Italy)

    LukasCPH

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #1925 on: March 08, 2017, 18:01 »
    where can he go? Who has the space and budget for a triple[1] Tour winner?!
     1. At least
    #didata would make the room, I believe. Froome is an African, after all!
    As for the budget, that's a harder nut to crack. Chris will have to find some friendly companies to sponsor him if he wants to keep his current salary level.
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  • cj2002

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #1926 on: March 08, 2017, 18:14 »
    #didata would make the room, I believe. Froome is an African, after all!
    As for the budget, that's a harder nut to crack. Chris will have to find some friendly companies to sponsor him if he wants to keep his current salary level.
    That is, actually, fairly plausible. I'm sure he could find a personal sponsor from somewhere... Probably a deal he's had to turn down while at Sky.

    Sent from my XT1580 using Tapatalk

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  • just some guy

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #1927 on: March 08, 2017, 18:19 »
    That is, actually, fairly plausible. I'm sure he could find a personal sponsor from somewhere... Probably a deal he's had to turn down while at Sky.

    Sent from my XT1580 using Tapatalk

    or Astana  :lol :lol
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  • Of course, if this turns out someday to be the industry standard integrated handlebar-computer-braking solution then I'll eat my kevlar-reinforced aerodynamic hat.

    Larri Nov 12, 2014

    FreeWheelin

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #1928 on: March 08, 2017, 22:30 »
    In the light of all this it is interesting to go back to the OP linked article.  It's funny to think Brad made those statements just before he went of to get what he had to know was a very dodgy treatment, for the second time.  Now maybe he could justify it to himself, maybe he couldn't, but he had to know it was dodgy.
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  • just some guy

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    cj2002

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #1930 on: March 09, 2017, 09:19 »
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  • just some guy

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #1931 on: March 09, 2017, 10:24 »
     :D

    makes sense though with the increased blood flow etc WADA looked at it to see if needed banning
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  • cj2002

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #1932 on: March 09, 2017, 11:20 »
    :D

    makes sense though with the increased blood flow etc WADA looked at it to see if needed banning

    Riding on racing saddles while wearing bib shorts is an uncomfortable experience at the best of times. But if you add the... benefit..? of Viagra into the mix.

    No - not sure that would be worth it.
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  • M Gee

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #1933 on: March 11, 2017, 03:03 »
    I disagree - I think that it's hilarious!!!

    Sky have arrogantly, blatantly and - at least to those of us who've been more discerning in our regard of their performances than some of the fanboys on this site - shallowly thrown out drivel to explain their performance.

    And remember that episode a few years back where there were quotes from Brailsford (I think it was) about how stupid the public is and how they deserved to be treated accordingly?

    Sky have built their name and their "empire" on sand ... and in doing so, pushed the needle that was starting to - very slowly and in very small increments admittedly - move towards progress away from the scourge that was the first decade of this century firmly back into that mire.

    That the tide is coming in and that key elements of their empire of lies are starting to fall to pieces is hilarious, over-due and can only be a good thing for the sport ....

    I do recall, in my school studies, how Conrad (Heart of Darkness, Lord Jim, etc.)  was pointed out for his use of complex (nearly florid) sentence structures. As opposed to a writer like Hemingway - who was sparse to the point of skeletonizing his communication of ideas. I would rate this on the Conradian end of the scale. :D :lol
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  • . . .He had the bit between his teeth, and he loiked the taste, mate . . .

    M Gee

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #1934 on: March 11, 2017, 03:11 »
    , trust us

    Oh, god. How many times have I heard that? You know, it can also take the form: "Believe me".

    I find it absolutely depressing how many times I have heard this in recent times. Disheartening.





    Because you can't, you know, "trust" them, I mean. That's the whole problem. But, you know, people bought snake oil, didn't they? Isn't that why the powers that be made it illegal?
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  • LukasCPH

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #1935 on: March 11, 2017, 14:00 »
    Oh, god. How many times have I heard that? You know, it can also take the form: "Believe me".

    I find it absolutely depressing how many times I have heard this in recent times. Disheartening.
    So you don't "believe in miracles", hiero? :P
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  • just some guy

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    Yellow Peril

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #1937 on: March 13, 2017, 13:34 »
    I don't like to get too embroiled in this sort of thing but I can't help but think that Froome is giving a masterclass in PR here.

    He sets himself apart from the rest of the team in not automatically hitting the twitter support tweet when everyone else does (he's a leader not a follower remember). This sets the press and social media into a frenzy then he makes a very enigmatic tweet some days later.

    Reminds me very much of LA with this level of 'control'
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  • Giving my view on life, cycling and the desire to do a sub 26min 10mTT on the Isle of Man @JaunePeril

    cj2002

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #1938 on: March 13, 2017, 13:44 »
    I don't like to get too embroiled in this sort of thing but I can't help but think that Froome Michelle is giving a masterclass in PR here.

    Fixed that for you.

    Your point is a good one, though.

    Also - and I think JSG had this debate on Twitter this morning with somebody - at no point does Froome actually offer any support for DB.

    "Without DB there is no Team Sky" - an opinion that has been expressed elsewhere, on both sides of the argument.
    "He has supported me" - debatable, in his on-road battles with Wiggins, but we'll go with it...
    "Mistakes have been made" - yes, yes they have, Chris. Well observed.

    In a statement like this, anything short of "I have full confidence in Sir Dave Brailsford's continued management of Team Sky" is his (her?) way of wheedling out of saying so. A masterclass in PR, says YP? Certainly, it's several leagues above the team's PR...
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  • LukasCPH

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #1939 on: March 13, 2017, 14:40 »
    Also - and I think JSG had this debate on Twitter this morning with somebody - at no point does Froome actually offer any support for DB.
    Yes. Froome's message sounds like the sort of support a football club gives its manager a week before sacking him for having lost the connection to the players.
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  • Yellow Peril

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #1940 on: March 14, 2017, 06:53 »
    Hmmm, a man whose "powers are weakening" superceded by a stronger darker power. Where have we seen that before....

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  • M Gee

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #1941 on: March 14, 2017, 23:37 »
    So you don't "believe in miracles", hiero? :P

    Aw, gee, you got me! Nope - no miracles. No pie in the sky. No yellow brick road, and no Oz. And no Trumpisms.

    "Trust me on this. "

    Right.
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  • Mellow Velo

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #1942 on: March 16, 2017, 14:29 »
     Not saying that two wrongs make a right, but I had to post this, just for adding some comedy value to the Sky saga.

     http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39289195

    Quote
    The Metropolitan Police is now looking at the evidence to see if the reporting omissions were deliberate.

    The party broke spending rules by moving campaigners and staff from its national headquarters to boost local party efforts and not properly declaring their hotel bills and expenses.

    The investigation, which followed Channel 4 News' investigation, found:

    The Conservative Party's 2015 UK Parliamentary general election spending return was missing payments worth at least £104,765
    Separately, payments worth up to £118,124 were either not reported to the commission or were incorrectly reported by the party
    The party did not include the required invoices or receipts for 81 payments to the value of £52,924
    The party failed to maintain records explaining the amounts it invoiced to candidates in three 2014 by-elections, for work on their campaigns.

    The party insists its failure to report six figure sums it spent on trying to win three by-elections and the general election was an "administrative error".
    What say you, Mr Collins?  :lol
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  • "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.

    just some guy

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #1943 on: March 16, 2017, 14:31 »
     :lol
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  • Joelsim

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #1944 on: March 16, 2017, 18:17 »
    The reason Josh was 'released'.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/39293763

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  • Mellow Velo

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #1945 on: March 16, 2017, 18:42 »
    The reason Josh was 'released'.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/39293763

     I caught the tail end of it on the news and the bit with Dr P.
    It is quite interesting to read that he was grassed up by another rider.
    Makes it's a relatively good doping revelation for Sky, in this respect.
    But given the current climate, it'll probably still have a further negative effect.
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  • Joelsim

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #1946 on: March 16, 2017, 18:45 »
    I caught the tail end of it on the news and the bit with Dr P.
    It is quite interesting to read that he was grassed up by another rider.
    Makes it's a relatively good doping revelation for Sky, in this respect.
    But given the current climate, it'll probably still have a further negative effect.

    It's very sad in all respects from Josh to the media. I hope he manages to deal with things.
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  • Mellow Velo

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #1947 on: March 16, 2017, 18:55 »
    It's very sad in all respects from Josh to the media. I hope he manages to deal with things.

    I saw him win the Junior Tour of Wales a few years ago.
    He was a very talented rider.
    I'm uneasy about this story.
    The sport has suffered too many tragedies with such issues.
    I'm a bit concerned that Dan Roan is pushing his agenda a little too hard, with this one. :(
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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #1948 on: March 16, 2017, 19:03 »
    It is quite interesting to read that he was grassed up by another rider.

    namely one of EBH, Deignan, Cataldo, Swift, Sebastian Henao, Puccio or Sivtsov, by the way.

    edit: or not, I misread that. Those up there were racing the Tour of Poland with him, but it happened during that time, so it was none of them
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  • « Last Edit: March 16, 2017, 19:17 by search »
    "If this is cycling, I am a banana"

    Joelsim

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #1949 on: March 16, 2017, 19:21 »
    I saw him win the Junior Tour of Wales a few years ago.
    He was a very talented rider.
    I'm uneasy about this story.
    The sport has suffered too many tragedies with such issues.
    I'm a bit concerned that Dan Roan is pushing his agenda a little too hard, with this one. :(

    Agreed. For all of the stupidity in BC at the moment, this appears to be a case where the guy really does need some help.
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