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jobiwan

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Re: Sky
« Reply #270 on: July 14, 2012, 19:53 »
http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/07/news/bradley-wiggins-mulls-releasing-blood-data-to-bolster-clean-racing-argument_229792

Quote
“It’s something I’m looking into doing. I’ve been advised against it. Strongly advised against it. But it’s something I would like to do, because I’ve got nothing to hide, so I don’t see why it shouldn’t be out there,” Wiggins said.

Good. Now don't mull it, just do it.
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  • benotti69

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    "ahaha, ever had the feeling you been cheated?" JL SF Jan'78

    Jamsque

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #272 on: July 14, 2012, 20:39 »
    He released some before, didn't he? While he was at Garmin. I think I remember JV saying something to the effect that all they achieved by releasing blood values was giving amateur hematologists something to talk about and make spurious inferences from.
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  • Lanced Armprong

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #273 on: July 14, 2012, 20:46 »


    So again while it would be nice to believe Sky are doing it clean, i doubt it as i doubt others race clean. It is too easy to get away with micro doping so others are definitely doing it, RSNT, OPQS, Katusha, Astana etc yet Sky is the dominant team.

    some facts to back up your statement that those teams are "DEFINITELY" would be nice right about now. Otherwise you come across as just another Sky-basher / Pro Cycling hater. I prefer to take the opinion that looking at the times of climbs, and watching the effort the riders are putting in and what that does to them, that the majority are riding clean now. Until I see proof otherwise, I'm going to stop being so cynical (for the first time in my life!).
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  • Dim

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #274 on: July 14, 2012, 21:29 »
    who would advise him against doing it and why?

    Because of all the amateur haemotologists on cycling forums that would pull every little discrepancie apart and turn it around on him.

    I'm in favor of rides data being made public. But it should be EVERY rider from every team so is an even playing field

    Sent from my GT-S5830 using Tapatalk 2
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  • Arb

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #275 on: July 15, 2012, 02:59 »
    Because of all the amateur haemotologists on cycling forums that would pull every little discrepancie apart and turn it around on him.

    Well, those amateur haemotologists who didn't accept that it was "all good" were probably closer than you think, and the UCI suspicion index 12 months later seemed to reinforce the suggestion that maybe something wasn't right.
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  • AG

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #276 on: July 15, 2012, 04:17 »
    I'm in favor of rides data being made public. But it should be EVERY rider from every team so is an even playing field

    Sent from my GT-S5830 using Tapatalk 2

    I originally thanked your post, but have changed it to not give the wrong impression.

    Its this bit that I agree with    :)
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  • benotti69

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #277 on: July 15, 2012, 10:39 »
    some facts to back up your statement that those teams are "DEFINITELY" would be nice right about now. Otherwise you come across as just another Sky-basher / Pro Cycling hater. I prefer to take the opinion that looking at the times of climbs, and watching the effort the riders are putting in and what that does to them, that the majority are riding clean now. Until I see proof otherwise, I'm going to stop being so cynical (for the first time in my life!).

    I am on a cycling related forum offering opinion.

    Sadly i cannot offer facts. But i base my opinions on what i know and what my eyes tell me.

    If the doping teams are clean why are they not doing a Garmin now? Proclaiming they are clean, remember JV doped in his past.

    As for offering up that the others are doping teams. These teams, their DSs and team doctors know of no other way to operate in sport.

    How was Andy Schleck going to turn up to the TdF as he had done nothing all season, barely finished a race?

    While it can frustrating to watch and think they are doping,it might be  easier like in the  Giro to have bigger doubts that there was much doping going on, but Sky are USPostalling it.

    I will leave you to enjoy the Sky success if you so wish. But if you dont want to be cynical about the sport it is best not to visit forums and their doping threads  ;)
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  • froome19

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #278 on: July 15, 2012, 10:44 »

    So again while it would be nice to believe Sky are doing it clean, i doubt it as i doubt others race clean. It is too easy to get away with micro doping so others are definitely doing it, RSNT, OPQS, Katusha, Astana etc yet Sky is the dominant team.
    That logic seems to be flawed because if others are doing it, then why are Sky superior. Many people originally attribute their claims that Sky are doping due to their unnatural superiority but are you implying that Sky are just better than everyone else at it? Because otherwise you may as well just assume the dope is taken away and everyone will still be at the same level with Sky remaining superior.
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    killswitch

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #279 on: July 15, 2012, 12:43 »
    ... but are you implying that Sky are just better than everyone else at it?
    US Postal were and the eerie similarities to Sky are maybe too much to be a coincidence.
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    Lanced Armprong

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #280 on: July 15, 2012, 19:56 »

    Sadly i cannot offer facts. But i base my opinions on what i know and what my eyes tell me.


    I too believe what my eyes tell me, and when I see how the pro peloton performs nowadays compared to the height of the doping era, they are night and day. There will always be doping, but I believe it is becoming rarer every year. I just think we're at a stage in cycling where we should be enjoying it more and stop trying to find some way of putting a downer on every race (Cuddles last year winning the TdF was amazing, but because he didn't speak out against doping, people immediately said he condones it :fp).

    Each to their own though, some people just like to have something to moan about :)

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  • just some guy

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #281 on: July 15, 2012, 19:59 »
    I think this maybe one of the slowest average speed tours in history for whatever it is worth.
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    benotti69

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #282 on: July 15, 2012, 21:56 »
    I too believe what my eyes tell me, and when I see how the pro peloton performs nowadays compared to the height of the doping era, they are night and day. There will always be doping, but I believe it is becoming rarer every year. I just think we're at a stage in cycling where we should be enjoying it more and stop trying to find some way of putting a downer on every race (Cuddles last year winning the TdF was amazing, but because he didn't speak out against doping, people immediately said he condones it :fp).

    Each to their own though, some people just like to have something to moan about :)

    I dont like the personal attacks from your 2 previous posts. Hater and now moaner.

    I think every cycling fan at this stage has the complete right to be angry about the doping in the sport. I dont moan about it i offer my opinion, which is to doubt what i see.

    This is not 'the clinic', it is a new forum where personal attacks and name calling are not wanted. We can all call it as we see it. But to start with the fanboy and hater bullsh*t is gonna make it a duplicate of what is already online. I for one dont want to see velorooms become similar to what is there. So far it has stayed above that.

    i hope it continues in this manner.
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  • benotti69

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #283 on: July 15, 2012, 22:02 »
    That logic seems to be flawed because if others are doing it, then why are Sky superior. Many people originally attribute their claims that Sky are doping due to their unnatural superiority but are you implying that Sky are just better than everyone else at it? Because otherwise you may as well just assume the dope is taken away and everyone will still be at the same level with Sky remaining superior.

    When you add up all the questions that Sky need to answer, it really is too much in a sport where we all know the past.

    Why are Sky superior? I dont know maybe because they have a world class swimming coach, they have Geert Leinder and  maybe the combination of these 2 out performs whatever programs Ferarri, Ibarguren and Fuentes have their teams on!


    Or maybe no one is doping and Sky like everyone else is riding clean! But i doubt it!

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  • Capt_Cavman

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #284 on: July 15, 2012, 23:09 »
    When you add up all the questions that Sky need to answer, it really is too much in a sport where we all know the past.

    Why are Sky superior? I dont know maybe because they have a world class swimming coach, they have Geert Leinder and  maybe the combination of these 2 out performs whatever programs Ferarri, Ibarguren and Fuentes have their teams on!


    Or maybe no one is doping and Sky like everyone else is riding clean! But i doubt it!
    Why are Sky superior?There are about three hundred posts in this thread and a great many of them offer answers to your question. You haven't addressed any of them.
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  • Lanced Armprong

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #285 on: July 16, 2012, 20:15 »
    I dont like the personal attacks from your 2 previous posts. Hater and now moaner.

    I think every cycling fan at this stage has the complete right to be angry about the doping in the sport. I dont moan about it i offer my opinion, which is to doubt what i see.

    This is not 'the clinic', it is a new forum where personal attacks and name calling are not wanted. We can all call it as we see it. But to start with the fanboy and hater bullsh*t is gonna make it a duplicate of what is already online. I for one dont want to see velorooms become similar to what is there. So far it has stayed above that.

    i hope it continues in this manner.

    Calm down please. I said in a previous post where you claim something is "definitely" the case that if you don't provide facts to back that assertion that something is "definite", that you come across as a Sky basher / Pro cycling hater.

    You continue to single out a particular team and make claims that they are doing something untoward (we've been seeing this since this year's Tour started) just because of the past. Yes, cycling has a horrible past with doping, but you need to compare the performances of those bad days with today's performances, which you don't seem to want to do. Anyone can see that the performances this year (and I'm not just talking about Sky before you start with the fanboy stuff - I've been following cycling since way before Sky came along) are way down on what the dopers were capable of.

    Your latest post also just seems to want to stir trouble for the sake of it, just because this team has done what no other team has done this year - worked as a solid unit in the mountains. This last part is key, if Nibali had the support from his teammates that Wiggins has or if Cadel had more than Teejay in the mountains, the GC might look a little different.

    Were you as critical of Cadel when he won last year? The way he just kept going up those climbs every day, even on his own...

    Yes this is a doping part of the forum, but that does not mean that you have to be negative in every post - there should be arguments from both sides of the discussion. I'm certainly happy to continue.
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  • Dim

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #286 on: July 16, 2012, 20:38 »
    Been thinking about the Wiggins data thing

    the pro's

    + It gets his data out and he can "prove" he is clean

    the negatives

    + it counts for nothing if other riders dont follow suit
    + the amateur haemotologists will have a field day
    + he will be accused of lying about the figures
    + the