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AG

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Re: Sky
« Reply #480 on: October 21, 2012, 12:47 »
He doesnt appear to be suggesting that there is any more issues at Sky than anywhere else.  He is just saying Sky's approach (the zero tolerance to past dopers - and making everyone sign a declaration) isnt the way to go.

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  • froome19

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #481 on: October 21, 2012, 16:34 »
    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/porte-looking-forward-to-2013-at-team-sky

    Nice interview by Porte..

    Quote
    "I understand that it's hard for some to sit back and watch on TV what's happening but at the end of the day I hope they trust that we're doing it the right way. And I know that even just saying that is going to get me flack but the sport is cleaning up and what's tarnishing us young guys now is the past.

    "It's easy to be cynical; with social media everyone has a voice. In some ways that is great and part of the tide of change is coming from the fact everyone has a bit of input. But I don't know how I can be more transparent. Short of having Paul Kimmage around for a sleepover, and even then that's not a guarantee. You have to have faith in the passport and the controls. It's a little unfair that in a lot of respects we're sitting ducks but the sport has itself to blame for that."

    I agree with all of the above points.
    He obviously understands the situation well and he is right it is much easier to be cynical than believe in the sport and then be proven wrong. With the Clinics, twitter it easy to express it with approval.

    He may be outright lying through his teeth, but I would be more inclined to believe him..

    And also it is nice to see more and more riders speaking out, you will start to get an idea about the extent of doping in the current peloton if more and more riders start to express their situation, it can not be that everyone single one lies..
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    AG

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #482 on: October 22, 2012, 00:38 »
    certainly nice to see someone speaking up a bit.

     :tu for him
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  • Dim

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #483 on: October 22, 2012, 01:04 »
    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/porte-looking-forward-to-2013-at-team-sky

    Nice interview by Porte..

    I agree with all of the above points.
    He obviously understands the situation well and he is right it is much easier to be cynical than believe in the sport and then be proven wrong. With the Clinics, twitter it easy to express it with approval.

    He may be outright lying through his teeth, but I would be more inclined to believe him..

    And also it is nice to see more and more riders speaking out, you will start to get an idea about the extent of doping in the current peloton if more and more riders start to express their situation, it can not be that everyone single one lies..

    "I dont know how I can be more transparent"

    Simple, publish your blood values online for everyone to take apart, and for the amateur heomotologists to decide you are blood doping :D
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  • just some guy

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    Of course, if this turns out someday to be the industry standard integrated handlebar-computer-braking solution then I'll eat my kevlar-reinforced aerodynamic hat.

    Larri Nov 12, 2014

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #485 on: October 28, 2012, 16:17 »
    I think this might be satire
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/othersports/article-2220801/Team-Sky-braced-departures.html?ito=feeds-newsxml


    I lol'd

    Satire - very good !
    So was this started by Daryl Webster and the person in question is Sutton ?
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  • froome19

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #486 on: October 28, 2012, 21:13 »
    I find it difficult to see Sky doping..
    Would they ever take the risk of sacking Yates, De Jongh or Julich if it was possible they would lash out at Sky and implicate the team as a backlash?

    After the Lance revelations I would have thought they would have been extremely careful to ensure that there is no chance of anything leaking out...
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  • AG

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #487 on: October 29, 2012, 01:15 »
    While I have come to admire Sky's effort and at least respect their desire to speak out and act at this time when we need teams to do exactly that ... I do think they are doing this the wrong way, and it will cost Sky and the sport. 

    Its not helping to have people who have done wrong in the past being forced to admit and resign ... people who have done wrong have no incentive to come forward.  Its only the ones that are obvious that will pay the price. 

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  • benotti69

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #488 on: October 29, 2012, 09:30 »
    I find it difficult to see Sky doping..
    Would they ever take the risk of sacking Yates, De Jongh or Julich if it was possible they would lash out at Sky and implicate the team as a backlash?

    Big payoffs with sign non disclosure agreements.

    After the Lance revelations I would have thought they would have been extremely careful to ensure that there is no chance of anything leaking out...

    I would have thought that by keeping them at Sky would ensure their silence. But Brailsford has not been the smartest, he has shown that with his declarations of shock and have to roll back on lots of what he said recently.
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    just some guy

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    Kvinto

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #490 on: October 30, 2012, 19:46 »
    Dave Brailsford's monologue, changing tyres:

     
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    mc_mountain

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #491 on: October 31, 2012, 16:31 »
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    ram

    Re: Sky
    « Reply #492 on: October 31, 2012, 16:47 »
    Tis a fluff piece to be honest. Lots of words to say basically nothing.
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  • mc_mountain

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #493 on: October 31, 2012, 17:47 »
    Tis a fluff piece to be honest. Lots of words to say basically nothing.

    Tis true indeed.
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  • froome19

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #494 on: November 06, 2012, 22:06 »
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/20228054

    Right at the end something new from DB
    Quote
    Speaking at the Business in Sport and Leisure conference, Brailsford said: "We started Team Sky with a very clear policy, we were going to try to recruit the riders and the staff who hadn't had previous convictions for doping and, to the best of our knowledge, had no previous involvement in doping.
    "[It was important to stick with the policy but we have to go through some pain - some short-term pain, some medium-term pain, potentially and maybe even some performace pain - to get to where we want to be."

    No point in criticising them now, is basically what he is saying..
    They messed up all the way back at the team's inception when releasing that manifesto.
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  • just some guy

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #495 on: November 07, 2012, 05:34 »
    They could change the policy.

    Get public admit, speak to WADA or whoever and move on, much better
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  • froome19

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #496 on: November 07, 2012, 10:27 »
    To their target market that would have been even worse. People who do not understand the sport, would have seen that as a very cowardly measure

    Also Seeing doping as not being tolerated at all and then they suddently start making concessions  :police:
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  • Jamsque

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #497 on: November 07, 2012, 12:40 »
    Sky can't change their policy now. They have made their bed, they must now lie in it.

    I think David Millar put it best: Garmin's policy on former dopers makes sense to harcore fans but seems filthy to casuals. Sky's policy on former dopers seems filthy to hardcore fans but makes sense to casuals.
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  • froome19

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #498 on: November 07, 2012, 16:56 »
    Indeed I think he got if from his boss :D
    From my post in JV thread


    Quote from: JV
    I'm not a fan of their approach. Clearly. But, they are trying, which is more than can be said for many. Our approach makes sense to the hardcore fan, but less so to the casual fan. Theirs is opposite of this. I don't think Brailsford has a choice. It's a corporate policy.


    Complicated.
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  • Jamsque

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #499 on: November 07, 2012, 17:13 »
    Wait maybe I was mis-sourcing that quote then....
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  • ram

    Re: Sky
    « Reply #500 on: November 13, 2012, 09:30 »
    This is why I love VR. First time I have ever seen a doping-related thread "go straight". Never thought I'd say this but: take it back to Men's Road Cycling, people! ;D
    Now that's an era ago...
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  • just some guy

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #501 on: December 06, 2012, 09:39 »
    GT - http://www.biciciclismo.com/cas/site/noticias-ficha.asp?id=57700

    Quote
    Brailsford: "We will not change our policy because the most important is not just to win"


    The zero tolerance policy has been criticized Team Sky, although it has opted for sacrificing athletic performance to be "in the forefront of clean equipment" and "maintain leadership in the fight against doping."

    The British ensemble led by Dave Brailsford and Bradley Wiggins asked all its members, brokers and staff, sign a document in which they denied any involvement, past or present, with doping, following the report of the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency ( USADA) Lance Armstrong on the case.

    Bobby Julich and Steven de Jongh, two highly prized and recognized coaches, confessed to doping, Sean Yates also, if for personal reasons, according to the official version, and Michael Rogers also has opened the door to play for Team Saxo -Tinkof.

    Brailsford thinks not turn back, but quite the opposite. The manager explained Sky L'Equipe the reasons for its policy. "We want to be at the forefront of clean equipment, so we had to make a decision. I always tried to hire people with a clear idea, did not want people who had doped in the past. With the revelations of the USADA, led us to change our policy, we had to do something because doing nothing, look away, you can not, "he insists. But why have not conducted these interviews three years ago? "For me, usually belongs to us not look back and punish people for what they did, Brailsford-but-still when they came into the team, knew of our policy. If we had known then what I know now, I would have hired? No. We had to fix our situation is difficult, "he admits.

    "We will not change our policy. When we reach this point, perhaps we are forced to go back in our results for a short time, to maintain our leadership in the fight against doping. This is what we do. I prefer to stay with our philosophy, get fewer results, instead of trying to do everything and intrigue to keep on top. Most important, not just to win, "he explains.

    The Australian Shaun Stephens joined the staff in the following Steve Peters and Tim Kerrison, and which will also Dan Hunt. "We also look for another manager, says Brailsford, but if we can not find the right person, we'll be fine, we'll stay with what we have, is very difficult to find someone admits Brailsford," he acknowledges.

    Finally, assume that the USADA report on Armstrong and the U.S. Postal places a significant burden. "Clearly this ruin our fun. It is our time, it's only been three years since we are here (the team emerged at the dawn of the 2010 season), but it is up to us now to manage this whole story, is a price we have to pay, "concludes French sports daily.
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  • Kvinto

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #502 on: December 06, 2012, 10:55 »
    He's trotting out the same lines yet again. The whole reasoning is based on extremely implausible conjecture that he had no idea about what's going on in the sport and only USADA report managed to open his eyes. Mr.Brailsford's desire to cut ties with ex-dopers reminds me of one thing though: one renowned dude once said that he has "zero tolerance for anyone convicted of using or facilitating the use of performance-enhancing drugs"... Yeah, that was Lance Armstrong about Michele Ferrari. Mr.Armstrong claimed to cut ties with Ferrari several hours after the latter was found guilty of sporting fraud back in 2004 ::)
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  • Jimmythecuckoo

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #503 on: January 02, 2013, 12:31 »
    And now Paul Kimmage puts the boot in to Bradley...

    I think he has a point about how dominant the team were and how quick to get rid of Mick Rogers after they proved to be.

    I want to believe in Bradley though!
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    froome19

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #504 on: January 02, 2013, 12:39 »
    Do you have a link Jimmy? Or is that the interview from a while back?

    In terms of Rogers it really is hard to know what was going on there, but it is all speculation tbh. Imo it could have been down to a number of different reasons such as his age etc Though it could have also been due to his links with Ferrari being too obvious.

    Also I do not get what the significance of getting rid of Rogers is to with them doping though, or was that not what Kimmage was talking about?
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  • Arb

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #506 on: January 02, 2013, 15:06 »
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  • Jimmythecuckoo

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #507 on: January 02, 2013, 16:36 »
    I think there is a subtle difference between PK and David Walsh.

    There is a lot of subjecture and innuendo with Kimmage. Of course its hard to believe that Sky weren't "prepared" like USPS. The difference was that there was a large weight of evidence surrounding LA instantly and continually.

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  • froome19

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #508 on: January 02, 2013, 21:17 »
    Quote
    “You look at what happened after the Tour. Sky threw out the team doctor and three others. Michael Rogers left, he was one of the strongest riders. I don't know anyone who could say that this was a fully convincing Tour win.”

    I genuinely still don't understand his point about Rogers.

    I respect Kimmage and he was certainly someone who contributed immensely to the Lance case, but he is just repeating the same concerns we all have. His Tenerife point for example is valid but shows a very basic explanation/understanding. Tenerife has been thoroughly explained as the ideal place for Sky to train, but I can see how it raises concern. Once again Kimmage is right though to be unsure as how can you be sure unless you have all the facts or proofs and unlike with Lance he really does not have enough this time round?

    On a different note, what is Kimmage going to do now? He may publish a book like Walsh but he still needs a job to keep him rolling I would say.
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  • cj2002

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #509 on: January 02, 2013, 22:58 »
    Rogers left of his own volition, I thought... Yés, the tíming raised some eyebrows, but a rider moving teams is no evidence of team-wide doping.

    Then we consider the lack of serious competition... Meh, I'm just gonna ignore Kimmy on this one.
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