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taiwan

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Re: Sky
« Reply #60 on: June 12, 2012, 15:22 »
OK, someone explain - what did Froome ever do to foreshadow his 2011 Vuelta performance and give him credibility?
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  • "The whole world is run on bluff. No race, no nation, no man has any divine right to take
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    Dim

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #61 on: June 12, 2012, 21:56 »
    OK, someone explain - what did Froome ever do to foreshadow his 2011 Vuelta performance and give him credibility?

    as far as chris goes, hed only actually done two years at barloworld as a pro before joining sky.

    Rode two grand tours for Barloworld, the tour where he finished 84th (12th placed young rider) and the Giro where he finished 36th (7th placed young rider).

    For a kid who was at the time, what, 23 years old, and just a few days shy of 24 in the giro thats actaully pretty impressive. Compare with say wiggins who has finished 123rd, 134th, 71st and 40th in the giro, and 124th, 4th and 24th in the tour..

    2010 was pretty much a write off but to be fair the whole team were crap in the gt's. 2011 it was finally "discovered" that he had an illness, and then rode the vuelta.

    But if you consider that he finished his first tour, 84th ona team that only had four riders finish the race (barloworld didnt ride the tour in 2009) and 36th in his first giro still aged 23, you could argue hes always had the potential.
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  • froome19

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #62 on: June 12, 2012, 22:05 »
    Also if my memory serves me correctly he came 10th in the TDS 2011 TT so it was obvious he was in some kind of form.
    Of course it was out of the blue but as Dim portrayed less out of the blue than some people may expect.
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    usedtobefast

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #63 on: June 14, 2012, 02:30 »
    swimmers they are clean and above reproach for sure. :wave :fp
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  • flicker2.0

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #64 on: June 21, 2012, 06:37 »
    any idea what time they did in 2005 ?



    Thanks, what great riding by those in that clip. Whatever Tygert says, those were some epic climbs by that group. Real exciting stuff.
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  • taiwan

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #65 on: June 23, 2012, 09:52 »
    as far as chris goes, hed only actually done two years at barloworld as a pro before joining sky.

    Rode two grand tours for Barloworld, the tour where he finished 84th (12th placed young rider) and the Giro where he finished 36th (7th placed young rider).

    For a kid who was at the time, what, 23 years old, and just a few days shy of 24 in the giro thats actaully pretty impressive. Compare with say wiggins who has finished 123rd, 134th, 71st and 40th in the giro, and 124th, 4th and 24th in the tour..

    2010 was pretty much a write off but to be fair the whole team were crap in the gt's. 2011 it was finally "discovered" that he had an illness, and then rode the vuelta.

    But if you consider that he finished his first tour, 84th ona team that only had four riders finish the race (barloworld didnt ride the tour in 2009) and 36th in his first giro still aged 23, you could argue hes always had the potential.

    ty, I  had another look at cyclingarchives and CQ also, and saw some climbing performances in e.g. Italian races and TT results which I hadn't noticed. The Vuelta jump was maybe less marked than I previously thought, although his podium is clearly on a totally different scale to a nything he had done previously.
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  • Zam

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #66 on: June 26, 2012, 12:02 »
    Lol
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  • Flo

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #67 on: July 07, 2012, 16:26 »
    Obvious team Sky doping is obvious.  :police:
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    ram

    Re: Sky
    « Reply #68 on: July 07, 2012, 16:29 »
    Very much likely, but rich coming from a Contador innocent believer.
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  • Havetts

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #69 on: July 07, 2012, 16:30 »
    Shiii when people like Froome start dropping Ferrari-clients like Menchov and Nibali, Geert Leinders mustve had some "Marginal Gains" in his doping knowledge. Holy sh*t this is funny.
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  • ram

    Re: Sky
    « Reply #70 on: July 07, 2012, 16:38 »
    But what are the others on? Diarrhoea biscuits? Everyone seems to be flopping badly.
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  • Havetts

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #71 on: July 07, 2012, 16:39 »
    As Ferminal so nicely said on the other side; its because Sky have a swimming trainer. :)
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  • taiwan

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #72 on: July 07, 2012, 16:40 »
    CN forum down? LOL. Clinic traffic must have increased x10
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  • ram

    Re: Sky
    « Reply #73 on: July 07, 2012, 16:44 »
    As Ferminal so nicely said on the other side; its because Sky have a swimming trainer. :)
    Dodgy no doubt, but Taaramae better than Menchov? Brajkovic better than all them other expected favourites? They don't really strike me as Sandy Schleck quality even.
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  • Flo

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #74 on: July 07, 2012, 16:45 »
    Very much likely, but rich coming from a Contador innocent believer.

     ::) That's not true.
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  • taiwan

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #75 on: July 07, 2012, 16:51 »
    But back on topic it seems they are the 'chosen'team this year. Could almost stop watching.
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  • Dim

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #76 on: July 07, 2012, 17:15 »
    Dodgy no doubt, but Taaramae better than Menchov? Brajkovic better than all them other expected favourites? They don't really strike me as Sandy Schleck quality even.

    exactly, this is why the form of the big guys need to be questioned, taaramae, nico roche, dan martin, making kloden, valverde, basso, menchov looking like sunday riders. The question is much more where their form has gone./
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  • Zam

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #77 on: July 07, 2012, 17:32 »
    Yes sky are suspicious but question the other riders form too. Lol
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  • mew

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #78 on: July 07, 2012, 17:37 »
    But what are the others on? Diarrhoea biscuits? Everyone seems to be flopping badly.

    Figured this comment was from you RAM! 
     ;D
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  • ram

    Re: Sky
    « Reply #79 on: July 07, 2012, 17:43 »
     :-[
    The fingers just lose control sometimes
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  • taiwan

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #80 on: July 07, 2012, 18:04 »
    IDK you could see how riders like Menchov/Sanchez might be looking to peak a bit later. I suppose we'll have to wait and see whether Sky drop off in the third week.

    ROFL

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  • ram

    Re: Sky
    « Reply #81 on: July 07, 2012, 18:14 »
    Two things-
    Even if not on peak form, should they be in such bad form that they be dropped?

    If so, isn't that just as dodgy as Sky?
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  • taiwan

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #82 on: July 07, 2012, 18:33 »
    Two things-
    Even if not on peak form, should they be in such bad form that they be dropped?

    If so, isn't that just as dodgy as Sky?
    IDK what outcome would have indicated being not in peak form, if not being dropped? Staying s.t. as Wiggins presumably, but then how would we know they weren't in peak form? I don't get the distinction between not peak/bad form.

    b) No - how would Menchov being dropped be possibly indicative of him doping? It's the opposite of what's being seen from Sky. Unsure why it's even being brought up in relation to them.

    I mean this is the Sky thread.

    edit - if Roche and Taaramae are consistently better than The Bigs then 'we'll talk' - in another thread.
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  • ram

    Re: Sky
    « Reply #83 on: July 07, 2012, 18:47 »
    How can a Sky doping topic with nothing but relative performances to other riders be confined to them only. It can only be comparative, and I'm not going to go batsh*t.

    And you misunderstand. Being sh*t enough to be dropped by Taaramae one week and then be an ace Menchov (so called peaking) in week 3 is what I'd think as dodgy as around. Cancellara today was the dodgiest of the lot for mine along with Gallopin. A donkey outclimbing proper climbers? And where was he in Suisse? Sure he doesn't have enough race days, but such a spurt? And Gallopin pacing Schleck?
    Fine tuning a peak to a day is just the reason that Schleck gets suspected, and not without reason too. It's the same extrapolation. I don't believe this Sky team is clean (maybe not an organised doping programme, but clean? hardly), flip I don't think any top rider is.
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  • Zam

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #84 on: July 07, 2012, 18:48 »
    lol
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  • just some guy

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #85 on: July 07, 2012, 18:51 »
    basso menchov never like these types of finishes too many changes in gradient etc

    same pace riders

    some riders suffer 1st day in the small ring

    Piti had a flat
    JVDB2 Flat

    here is the thing Froome and Wiggo are same pace riders ie same as Menchov and Basso did not suffer

    something strange is occurring

    there are 2 answers and a combination

    old dopers are no longer doping or to the same level

    Sky have a great program

    or both  ;)

    This finish should have Evans all over it but suddenly Froome is the guy  ::)  and this is after setting the pace for 3ish km

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  • Of course, if this turns out someday to be the industry standard integrated handlebar-computer-braking solution then I'll eat my kevlar-reinforced aerodynamic hat.

    Larri Nov 12, 2014

    taiwan

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #86 on: July 07, 2012, 18:55 »
    How can a Sky doping topic with nothing but relative performances to other riders be confined to them only. It can only be comparative, and I'm not going to go batsh*t.

    And you misunderstand. Being sh*t enough to be dropped by Taaramae one week and then be an ace Menchov (so called peaking) in week 3 is what I'd think as dodgy as around. Cancellara today was the dodgiest of the lot for mine along with Gallopin. A donkey outclimbing proper climbers? And where was he in Suisse? Sure he doesn't have enough race days, but such a spurt? And Gallopin pacing Schleck?
    Fine tuning a peak to a day is just the reason that Schleck gets suspected, and not without reason too. It's the same extrapolation. I don't believe this Sky team is clean (maybe not an organised doping programme, but clean?), flip I don't think any top rider is.

    Well what do you think is happening? I considered there that you meant controls were tighter, and guys like Menchov couldn't return to their previous methods --> couldn't perform. I mean I suppose I'd have to accept that was a possibility unless people were producing unrealistic numbers. But what's your take?
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  • just some guy

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #87 on: July 07, 2012, 18:59 »
    here is what Evans thought

    Quote
    Evans made a bid for the stage win in the final 400 meters, but he was overtaken by stage winner and Wiggins' teammate Chris Froome, who counter-attacked to win by two seconds ahead of the pair. "I wanted to get some speed going into the curve," Evans said. "You try to take what advantage you can. Froome was really incredible. He rode the last three kilometers or something, so to follow me and then accelerate past me, he could probably take the climb at his own rhythm. From behind, it looked like he went easy." In the end, only five riders finished within 20 seconds of Froome.
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  • Zam

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #88 on: July 07, 2012, 19:12 »
    Rogers  lol
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  • ram

    Re: Sky
    « Reply #89 on: July 07, 2012, 19:14 »
    Well what do you think is happening? I considered there that you meant controls were tighter, and guys like Menchov couldn't return to their previous methods --> couldn't perform. I mean I suppose I'd have to accept that was a possibility unless people were producing unrealistic numbers. But what's your take?
    My take is, Sky's dodgy, but let's wait for something more concrete, or even sandy, maybe some figures about times? And will they do it in the third week? I really hope not.

    As for the ultra fine peaking concept has left a sour taste thanks to the previous era's GT winners, and I'm not willing to trust that either, and neither will I trust super dominance. So, if a Menchov or Sanchez suddenly start peaking in week 3 or so, that will also definitely beggar a question or two. Surely a spurt in form like Cacellara's today, which has largely been ignored, is also questionable.
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