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Dim

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Re: Sky
« Reply #690 on: May 02, 2013, 02:03 »
Wiggins in the Times on Sunday - taken from RR's scribd



Actually an interesting read.. especially the bits about his comments towards Landis and the fact he took his lead from the likes of Zabriskie and Michael Barry..
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  • AG

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #691 on: May 02, 2013, 04:17 »
    to be honest, the comments about Lance and the Landis stuff is something I can understand.

    Its a group thing ... hard to be accepted, to deal with the pressure etc and go against the grain at the same time.  It takes a special person with a strength of character that Brad doesnt have to be able to stand up against the crowd.

    Its a shame we didnt see too many within the peloton have that - but I dont blame Brad for that lack. 

    As far as the "I couldnt do that to my kids" stuff - it makes sense ... but sadly we have heard all of it before, and seen that in fact - people CAN do that to their kids. 

    In order to have what it takes to win (dedication, determination, ability to sacrifice everything just in order to win) you have to be prepared to do things that you ordinarily would not.

    Thats why I dont think it stacks up as an argument for pro cyclists (any pro's - not just Wiggins)
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  • The Hitch

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #692 on: May 03, 2013, 02:40 »
    It wasn't a group thing though. Wiggins was the only one. What other cyclists served as character witness to lance and went after Landis?

    And there's no justifying that he knew Landis was telling the truth and he came out and said he was lying nonetheless. Is a nice sleight of hand attempt but doesn't quite work.
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  • Despite the self-serving data benders and associated propaganda to the contrary, I am led to believe that there are pockets of organised, highly sophisticated dopers, even within 'new age' cycling teams. Personally, I don't accept that the 'dark era' has ended, it has just morphed into a new guise.

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #693 on: May 03, 2013, 02:49 »
    but he was getting hounded by the media, and we all know he doesnt deal well with them ...

    Its not an excuse.  He is an idiot.  But I understand that their might have been circumstances where he said stuff he now regrets.
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  • FreeWheelin

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #694 on: May 03, 2013, 04:17 »
    Quote
    I want to watch Ben play rugby league.

    This makes me like him more.  :)
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  • The Hitch

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #695 on: May 03, 2013, 11:58 »
    but he was getting hounded by the media, and we all know he doesnt deal well with them ...

    Its not an excuse.  He is an idiot.  But I understand that their might have been circumstances where he said stuff he now regrets.

    Not really. It wasn't a 1 off thing. It's a position he held consistently for over 3years. plenty of the times he came ut kissing lances ass were in 1 on 1 interviews. Like 1 with the BBC during the Olympics. Also on the podium of Paris nice. Where was the pressure to praise lance? He'd been retired for over a year by then. 1 and a half by the Olympics, yet sky kept calling themselves UK postal and Wiggins kept up contact with and heroworship of lance.
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  • Dim

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #696 on: May 03, 2013, 15:06 »
    Some of it makes sense though. He talked with Zabriskie and Van de Velde as they were ex teammates. Assuming Garmin is clean, then he assumed they were clean riders and listens to what they say. Then hes got Michael Barry sitting on the bus telling him what an arse floyd was.

    Wiggins is quized about it as one of the most promiment in the peloton.. Goes on what he is told.

    The moral... dont listen to what other people tell you.
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  • benotti69

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #697 on: May 03, 2013, 19:10 »
    Some of it makes sense though. He talked with Zabriskie and Van de Velde as they were ex teammates. Assuming Garmin is clean, then he assumed they were clean riders and listens to what they say. Then hes got Michael Barry sitting on the bus telling him what an arse floyd was.

    Wiggins is quized about it as one of the most promiment in the peloton.. Goes on what he is told.

    The moral... dont listen to what other people tell you.

    Nah, not buying that Dim. Wiggins is not telling the truth. He professed his love for Armstrong and his terrible comments about landis are straight from a Armstrong fanboy

    Quote
    Wiggins, who could have stayed clear of the debate, chose instead to run with the mob that attacked Landis, questioning the former Postal rider’s mental state and suggesting that only a crazed man would say the things Landis was saying.

    This is same as Armstrong calling Betsy crazy.

    Wiggins does not come across well in that interview and to drop his kids in as an excuse, well another leaf from Armstrong.

    I only hope Walsh has not been totally sold on Sky's GT team being clean.
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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #698 on: May 03, 2013, 21:04 »
    Some of it makes sense though. He talked with Zabriskie and Van de Velde as they were ex teammates. Assuming Garmin is clean, then he assumed they were clean riders and listens to what they say. Then hes got Michael Barry sitting on the bus telling him what an arse floyd was.

    Wiggins is quized about it as one of the most promiment in the peloton.. Goes on what he is told.

    The moral... dont listen to what other people tell you.

    And how does any of that explain all the praise Wiggins gave to Armstrong over the next 3 years?

    And since when does someone telling you they thought a guy was a jerk justify coming out and claiming they are lying, even though you know they are telling the truth.
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  • AG

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #699 on: May 04, 2013, 01:20 »
    Some of it makes sense though. He talked with Zabriskie and Van de Velde as they were ex teammates. Assuming Garmin is clean, then he assumed they were clean riders and listens to what they say. Then hes got Michael Barry sitting on the bus telling him what an arse floyd was.

    Wiggins is quized about it as one of the most promiment in the peloton.. Goes on what he is told.

    The moral... dont listen to what other people tell you.

    it makes sense - except that JV says that Wiggins knew what Lance was doing. 

    so unless DZ, CVV and Barry convinced him that Lance was actually clean - which I totally dont buy ... he went a whole lot out of his way to defend someone he knew full well was guilty and was a total dirtbag.

    I could have understood the media thing - if it was just them hounding him for answers and he gave them off the cuff and regretted it.  But as Hitch points out - that didnt occur constantly for 3 years.  Putting it in his book ...

    So the only conclusion I can come to is that its just  like Kittel going after Sayer ...    Wiggins thought Lance was going to win - so backed Lance 100% against 'the little guy' who was already discredited and disowned amongst the peleton. 
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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #700 on: May 05, 2013, 17:56 »
    it makes sense - except that JV says that Wiggins knew what Lance was doing. 

    so unless DZ, CVV and Barry convinced him that Lance was actually clean - which I totally dont buy ... he went a whole lot out of his way to defend someone he knew full well was guilty and was a total dirtbag.

    I could have understood the media thing - if it was just them hounding him for answers and he gave them off the cuff and regretted it.  But as Hitch points out - that didnt occur constantly for 3 years.  Putting it in his book ...

    So the only conclusion I can come to is that its just  like Kittel going after Sayer ...    Wiggins thought Lance was going to win - so backed Lance 100% against 'the little guy' who was already discredited and disowned amongst the peleton.

    There can only be one reason to go way out of your way to defend a dirtbag like Armstrong.
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  • froome19

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #701 on: May 10, 2013, 12:37 »
    Quote
    David Walsh ‏@DavidWalshST 36m
    I will be inside Sky team for next 17 days. First time to be with them at a race. As excited journalistically as I've been for a long time.

    Following Sky around at a GT, a pretty big step.
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    The Hitch

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #702 on: May 10, 2013, 14:10 »
    Are you saying everyone who rides on a team where someone is doping will know about it?
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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #703 on: May 10, 2013, 14:56 »
    Are you saying everyone who rides on a team where someone is doping will know about it?
    No 
    Does it look like I am saying that?  :S  :cheesy

    I am not of the opinion that Walsh following Sky around should acquit them of doping accusations, but it is nevertheless another something which should be thrown into the mix.
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  • S-Works

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #704 on: May 11, 2013, 01:29 »
    I have not read all 20+ odd pages of replies, and have no intention to do so... and I've come here late, rather I just signed up recently...
    what I still would like to hear are answers by Wiggo re his relationship with ex-Sky doctor Geert Leinders.
    I recall him saying, more or less, "He is a hell of a doctor and really knows what he's doing."

    Also, why is a doctor being hired to work with a team for 80 days during the year? Why 80 days? I'd have an answer to that...
    all I will say is it stinks, alot more than rotten fish.
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  • Jimmythecuckoo

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #705 on: May 15, 2013, 13:39 »
    This makes me like him more.  :)

    As do I ... even if it is for Wigan Warriors.
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    froome19

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #706 on: June 06, 2013, 11:15 »
    Race Radio on Cn on Richie:

    Quote
    I had lunch with Richie last week. I would be the last person a doper would want to hang out with.

    I found him very open, direct, and confident. He was clearly very passionate about the sport and his team. I asked a lot of questions and he gave me very direct, non-evasive, answers. I have had the same discussion with dozens of riders over the years but few have been as direct as Richie.
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  • The Hitch

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #707 on: June 06, 2013, 11:48 »
    Race Radio on Cn on Richie:

    Lol can't believe you found that so persuasive. An anonymous poster who at best is known to have had some inside info on lance as he was part of that setup (10 years ago) says he liked Richie. Doesn't say anything about doping. if this thread is just gonna be reposting any comments you agree with from cn then it's gonna be as long as the cn one.
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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #708 on: June 06, 2013, 11:56 »
    Lol can't believe you found that so persuasive. An anonymous poster who at best is known to have had some inside info on lance as he was part of that setup (10 years ago) says he liked Richie. Doesn't say anything about doping. if this thread is just gonna be reposting any comments you agree with from cn then it's gonna be as long as the cn one.
    I didn't say I found it persuasive on anything like that. I just found it enlightening ;)

    I respect Race radio and I believe that many on here also do so it is interesting as to see what he/she believes and thinks about Richie. Race Radio does seem to favour Richie and was impressed by how he came across and though he/she has not said anything definitive he/she does not seem to believe it is very likely Porte is doping.

    Also a personal view of Porte and his opinions, even if it was very vague and very brief also is nice to see, as it gives you just a slightly better perspective and especially as it is coming from an unbiased source as opposed to coming from the Sky website etc.
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  • The Hitch

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #709 on: June 06, 2013, 11:57 »
    Oh and btw vaughters already pulled the - I met him for dinner and am convinced he's clean trick 4 years ago.

    The rider in question- Alberto Contador.

    So stop treating riders as 2 year olds who scratch their head every time they tell a lie. Dopers lie for a living. I pity anyone who thinks getting through a dinner without blurting out - ok ok I took epo, is a sign of cleanliness.
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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #710 on: June 06, 2013, 12:01 »
    Also I think it is important to consider that giving additional perspectives in this discussion is important.

    If Vaughters can meet Contador for dinner or Race Radio someone who knows doping much better than I do and yet they still can't ascertain accurately for themselves whether a rider is clean.. well what chance do we have. Of course I don't take this as definitive proof that Porte isn't doping, but at the same time it is surely something to consider. The whole CN thread and the whole of this thread is filled with speculation, due to the closed, omerta nature of the cycling world we are left with bits and pieces and we just have to make do with what we have.
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  • Tuart

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #711 on: June 06, 2013, 12:26 »
    Lol can't believe you found that so persuasive. An anonymous poster who at best is known to have had some inside info on lance as he was part of that setup (10 years ago) says he liked Richie. Doesn't say anything about doping. if this thread is just gonna be reposting any comments you agree with from cn then it's gonna be as long as the cn one.

    Better than circulating bullsh*t rumours and innuendo which is all most of these threads have become.
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    benotti69

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #712 on: June 06, 2013, 12:45 »
    Better than circulating bullsh*t rumours and innuendo which is all most of these threads have become.

    Sadly most of the innuendo is pretty close to the truth. We see it regurlarly with the small fry who get sacrificed as they cannot afford better set ups or afford to buy sysmex blood testing machines for UCI.
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  • Dim

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #713 on: June 06, 2013, 12:57 »
    I trust RR's opinion more than I trust David Walsh's
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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #714 on: June 06, 2013, 14:06 »
    I trust RR's opinion more than I trust David Walsh's

    Pity RR didn't ask him what is making him a GC contender at Sky that he couldn't do at Saxo?

    As Hitch says, these guys are professional liars. Comes with the sport.
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  • Capt_Cavman

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #715 on: June 06, 2013, 14:10 »
    I trust RR's opinion more than I trust David Walsh's
    I can't think of anyone whose opinion I'd trust more than Race Radio. History of standing up to the biggest bully in the business, no vested interest, what's not to like?

    Unless of course he disagrees with an evidence-free opinion of your own.
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  • The Hitch

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #716 on: June 06, 2013, 20:35 »
    Did rr say richie porte was clean or did he say he is a nice guy after meeting him for dinner.

    Im a bit confused, cos from what i read it was the former but captain cavman seems to have a different interpretation.
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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #717 on: June 06, 2013, 20:44 »
    Pity RR didn't ask him what is making him a GC contender at Sky that he couldn't do at Saxo?

    he was Top 10 in his first ever grand tour, riding for Saxo. Nowaday's he is propably Top 10 material for the Tour de France, so there is an improvement, but that's it. People act like he'd win the Tour de France, but even without Froome I cannot really see him finishing on the podium.
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    Capt_Cavman

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #718 on: June 06, 2013, 21:44 »
    ...

    Im a bit confused...
    Clearly.

    What do you think he means by, "Not evasive"?


    Presumably that's why you tried to undermine him in your comments above.

    Person A says something nice about Contador or Nibali and his comment gets discussed. Person B says something nice about Porte and he gets trashed. Confusing.
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  • Tuart

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #719 on: June 07, 2013, 13:27 »
    Sadly most of the innuendo is pretty close to the truth. We see it regurlarly with the small fry who get sacrificed as they cannot afford better set ups or afford to buy sysmex blood testing machines for UCI.

    What has this got to do with the price of fish? Someone posted an opinion a public figure gathered themselves over the mentality of a rider others find suspicious. I find that highly more relevant and beneficial to a thread than some twitter rumour that spreads because someone farted out a name.

    Pity RR didn't ask him what is making him a GC contender at Sky that he couldn't do at Saxo?

    As Hitch says, these guys are professional liars. Comes with the sport.

    I'd say with all the resources at Sky, considering what their budgets are, why is it a surprise when they develop people and they actually start doing well? Not to mention all the evidence has been there. In his first year as a pro, he managed to win the white jersey. Regardless of how it got to him, he still had to climb well enough to defend it.

    Porte has no greater risk of being a doper than what's normal for anyone in cycling.

    After Aquila, he was 18th on Zoncolan, 14th to Aprica, 19th Passo Tonale.

    Does that not equal ability to climb? 17th and 11th in the TT. That's shows ability to TT.

    Holy smokes, just from that one grand tour we have someone who's shown he can climb and timetrial. That must mean he can only carry water bottles, that's all he's fit for. That's totally logical!
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  • « Last Edit: June 10, 2013, 02:44 by Tuart »

     

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