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AG

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Re: Sky
« Reply #720 on: June 08, 2013, 02:01 »
of all the Sky riders, I actually think Porte is probably the least suspicious.

He had a great first year, showing bucketloads of talent.  Yes he gained lots of time in that Giro from a break - but he wasnt 1/2 an hour behind or anything when he went off.  It takes more than just 1 break on 1 stage to top 10 the giro.

That he had a poor year with Saxo ... well, not every team suits every rider.  He never seemed to fit in at Saxo and certainly didnt seem to enjoy his riding.  He could have been ill, or injured, or simply didnt respond to the way they trained etc.   

To come good when he moves to a new team with a structure he likes in an environment he feels comfortable in ... well its not really a surprise to me.  Nor to anyone else it seems - he wasnt lacking for offers when he moved on from Saxo.

I am not saying 'he is definitely clean'.   

I am saying he gets the benefit of the doubt from me.   

And yes - I find RR's personal experience of him interesting.  (it doesnt convince me of anything - is just interesting to hear points of view from someone with personal knowledge rather than just rumour)
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  • Tuart

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #721 on: June 08, 2013, 08:14 »
    In Porte's "bad" year at Saxo he had these results:

    1st Tour of Denmark St5
    1st Castilla y Leon St4
    2nd Romandie St4
    3rd Paris-Nice St6
    4th TDF St 20
    3rd Giro St21
    6th World Champs

    They are of course, all in the ITT.

    I wonder what he was focusing on?   :? :roll

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    benotti69

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #722 on: June 08, 2013, 11:55 »


    I'd say with all the resources at Sky, considering what their budgets are, why is it a surprise when they develop people and they actually start doing well? Not to mention all the evidence has been there. In his first year as a pro, he managed to win the white jersey. Regardless of how it got to him, he still had to climb well enough to defend it.

    Porte has no greater risk of being a doper than what's normal for anyone in cycling.

    After Aquila, he was 18th on Zoncolan, 14th to Aprica, 19th Passo Tonale.

    Does that not equal ablity to climb? 17th and 11th in the TT. That's shows ability to TT.

    Holy smokes, just from that one tour with have somone who's shown he can climb and timetrial. That must mean he can only carry water bottles, that's all he's fit for. That's totally logical!

    Porte rode for Riis. Not a clean CV for Richie.

    Why do people make the mistake of thinking the sport has cleaned up? Where is the evidence? Testing is down. EPO is still in use. ASO has not changed, UCI nor RCS, so where and when did this sport get clean? How can a so called clean team like Sky beat the known doping teams?

    We dont get to see riders blood passports. We dont get to see anything that would make me believe that any of the top riders are not doping.



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    benotti69

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #723 on: June 08, 2013, 11:57 »
    In Porte's "bad" year at Saxo he had these results:

    1st Tour of Denmark St5
    1st Castilla y Leon St4
    2nd Romandie St4
    3rd Paris-Nice St6
    4th TDF St 20
    3rd Giro St21
    6th World Champs

    They are of course, all in the ITT.

    I wonder what he was focusing on?   :? :roll

    He was focused on not getting caught for doping and practicising his pr skills. ;)
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  • The Hitch

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #724 on: June 08, 2013, 12:32 »
    Finishing in the mid to high tens on giro mountain stages. There were plenty of riders finishing below him who proved they were much better climbers, who were shutting things down because they were domestiques - szmyd, uran, serpa, cas.

    Also by the time you are 5 minutes down on a stage nobody else gives a sh*t. Everyone around him is just pedaling to the finish line waiting for the next day.

    Porte meanwhile had everything to ride for and unlike everyone finishing near him, he had a team of domestiques at his disposal, including cas who had already won a stage and may have finished top10 without laquila. Hell despite pacing Richie up every climb in the giro he was still finishing just behind him on many stages.

    And despite all that look at who Porte was finishing with. Yuri trofimov, bramislav samilao, a supposedly injured and il pre lienders Chris froome.
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  • Despite the self-serving data benders and associated propaganda to the contrary, I am led to believe that there are pockets of organised, highly sophisticated dopers, even within 'new age' cycling teams. Personally, I don't accept that the 'dark era' has ended, it has just morphed into a new guise.

    Slow Rider

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #725 on: June 08, 2013, 12:52 »
    Porte was doing his first ever year in Europe at the 2010 Giro. Even if he was a bit older than most first-year pro's (he was 24-25, right?). It was all new to him, new environment and a higher level of competition than anything he was used to. So back then there was a lot of room for growth, yet he did perform very well. Few riders that are used to the Giro Bio and the Tour de Lankawi instantly perform this well in their first GT during their first year in Europe.

    Plus, turning pro that late there was always going to be a lot of room for improvement from there. Perhaps he was just the kind of person who develops later at a later age? Not everyone is a prodigy at age 22 imediately climbing with the best, some riders need some time to grow into it. He may well be as doped, but he's not as suspicious as some others.
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  • AG

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #726 on: June 08, 2013, 13:11 »
    Wait - so Chris Froome did actually do something before his Vuelta podium?

    a high finish on a stage or two is different from managing it as a neo pro over 3 weeks.
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  • Jamsque

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #727 on: June 08, 2013, 23:32 »
    pre lienders

    My favourite part of all of this is how Gert Lienders is somehow the new Michele Ferrari.
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  • The Hitch

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #728 on: June 08, 2013, 23:52 »
    My favourite part of all of this is how Gert Lienders is somehow the new Michele Ferrari.

    Who said that?

    Though i do remember that until a few months ago, us sceptical types had a hard time even arguing that lienders was even dodgy  as sky fans argued that there was absolutely no evidence he was a doping doctor.

    Then Rasmussen confessed Lienders was the Napoleon Bonaparte of the Rabobank doping programme that got him flying like Pantani on PDB.

    So the trenches have been moved back a few km, but it seems not that far at all.
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  • Tuart

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #729 on: June 09, 2013, 11:03 »
    Porte rode for Riis. Not a clean CV for Richie.

    Why do people make the mistake of thinking the sport has cleaned up? Where is the evidence? Testing is down. EPO is still in use. ASO has not changed, UCI nor RCS, so where and when did this sport get clean? How can a so called clean team like Sky beat the known doping teams?

    We dont get to see riders blood passports. We dont get to see anything that would make me believe that any of the top riders are not doping.

    Bloody hell, Bassons rode for Festina, he can't have been clean! Same for Michael Creed! Just an illogical thought process.

    So no team should be able to win against the likes of Katusha, Movistar, Astana, Saxo? Geez, that's an effective and foolproof way of finding out who's doping.  :rolleye

    Cycling world is kind of small, every team has links to doping. Greenedge has them, Garmin has them, BMC has them, FDJ has them. There's no escaping any links to doping in cycling.

    Every rider should come under the same cynicism, cheery picking who you label is just a slippery slope and and end up being hypocritical.
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  • Tuart

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #730 on: June 09, 2013, 11:06 »
    Finishing in the mid to high tens on giro mountain stages. There were plenty of riders finishing below him who proved they were much better climbers, who were shutting things down because they were domestiques - szmyd, uran, serpa, cas.

    Also by the time you are 5 minutes down on a stage nobody else gives a sh*t. Everyone around him is just pedaling to the finish line waiting for the next day.

    Porte meanwhile had everything to ride for and unlike everyone finishing near him, he had a team of domestiques at his disposal, including cas who had already won a stage and may have finished top10 without laquila. Hell despite pacing Richie up every climb in the giro he was still finishing just behind him on many stages.

    And despite all that look at who Porte was finishing with. Yuri trofimov, bramislav samilao, a supposedly injured and il pre lienders Chris froome.

    Zoncolan is Zoncolan, there the time gaps are huge. Despite 156 other people not climbing at the speed of Basso, Porte managed to still come in 18th, just behind Kruiswijk and in front of Efimkin, Trofimov, Karpets. Avila, no one finished within 3 minutes of the leading trio and yet Porte finished 14th, in a group that consisted of Mollema, Kiserlovski, Kruijswijk, Ardila, Samoilau, Pinotti.  Uran was a further 5 minutes down. Passo Tonale, 2 minutes down in 19th, again with the same company, Kruiswijk, Kiserlovski, Pinotti just ahead and beating in Moreno, Karpets, Efimkin, Dupont.

    CAS, however great a super-dom he is, is not a chair-lift up a climb and are you actually feigning stupidity as to why would a team change leaders midway through a GT when one of their riders gets Pink? :rolleye

    These people mentioned, they all have climbing ability, yeah? So someone who finishes with and around them, shows climbing ability. It's fairly straight forward.

    Yet you're complaining because he wasn't showing the ability to climb with the top 10? As a neo-pro? :facepalm

    As for Froome, he was no where on any of these stages,  irrelevant to the discussion.

    Who said that?

    Though i do remember that until a few months ago, us sceptical types had a hard time even arguing that lienders was even dodgy  as sky fans argued that there was absolutely no evidence he was a doping doctor.

    Then Rasmussen confessed Lienders was the Napoleon Bonaparte of the Rabobank doping programme that got him flying like Pantani on PDB.

    So the trenches have been moved back a few km, but it seems not that far at all.

    So what you're saying is that because there was no evidence before Rasmussen's admission then people were right to say there was no evidence?
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  • « Last Edit: June 09, 2013, 13:02 by AG, Reason: unnecessary »

    The Hitch

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #731 on: June 09, 2013, 11:58 »
    YOU were the one who introduced Richie portes 2010 giro mountain finishing positions to the discussion a few posts ago, arguing that they were domonstrative of a top climber.

    I disagreed with that assessment, and offered my own analysis of the those finishes,  purely as a counterpoint to yours. There wasn't even any doping talk in my response. I pointed out what riders finished around him, and the advantages he had at his disposal.

    Why is it ok for you to talk about portes 2010 giro but not me?
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  • « Last Edit: June 09, 2013, 13:04 by AG, Reason: unnecessary »

    benotti69

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #732 on: June 09, 2013, 12:53 »
    Bloody hell, Bassons rode for Festina, he can't have been clean! Same for Michael Creed! Just an illogical thought process.

    I suppose Porte has a similar nickname like Bassons then? 'Mr Clean'? Bassons was the exception to the rule ;)

    So no team should be able to win against the likes of Katusha, Movistar, Astana, Saxo? Geez, that's an effective and foolproof way of finding out who's doping.  :rolleye

    I still ask the question, where, when and how did the doping stop?

    Cycling world is kind of small, every team has links to doping. Greenedge has them, Garmin has them, BMC has them, FDJ has them. There's no escaping any links to doping in cycling.

    Every rider should come under the same cynicism, cheery picking who you label is just a slippery slope and and end up being hypocritical.

    In my book every rider does come under the same scrutiny, criticism and cynicism, but I only post about those at the pointy end who are the more obvious. I rarely waste my time posting about Contador, Piti, Purito and the likes, as for me these guys are and were never clean. Teams like Movi, SaxoT, Katusha, Astana are doping teams. The see it as integral to the sport.
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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #733 on: June 09, 2013, 12:55 »
    that's a long post Hitch, but I still don't see your point, where do we find the unusual increase of Porte's performance in recent years?

    he was also sick during that 2010 giro btw. Of course, you can say he was doped back then as well, but if we do not assume that I cannot see anything too unusual about his current performances, regarding his earlier result.

    but as I already said, I also don't see him as a possible gc contender for the Tour, maybe that's the difference.
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  • "If this is cycling, I am a banana"

    AG

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #734 on: June 09, 2013, 13:13 »
    Can we please remember to debate the subject and cut out the personal attacks.

    Posts which include personal attacks will be deleted ... 

    Cheers
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  • The Hitch

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #735 on: June 09, 2013, 13:52 »
    that's a long post Hitch, but I still don't see your point, where do we find the unusual increase of Porte's performance in recent years?


    I never said that. All I did was explain why Porte's 2010 Giro climbing was not as special as Tuart claimed they were.
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  • ram

    Re: Sky
    « Reply #736 on: June 09, 2013, 14:22 »
    Can we please remember to debate the subject and cut out the personal attacks.

    Posts which include personal attacks will be deleted ... 

    Cheers
    this thread keeps on giving, doesn't it. Don't read it anymore, till today, as it's a cock fight where each party tries to drown its opponent in its circle jerk and it being a circular debate with no real points being made either way. Is it the thread or is it the users?
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  • FreeWheelin

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #737 on: June 09, 2013, 14:30 »
    this thread keeps on giving, doesn't it. Don't read it anymore, till today, as it's a cock fight where each party tries to drown its opponent in its circle jerk and it being a circular debate with no real points being made either way. Is it the thread or is it the users?

    My claim to fame at VR is having the (very awkard) OP for this thread... funny thing was I posted it first in the gen news thread... little did I know...
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  • ram

    Re: Sky
    « Reply #738 on: June 09, 2013, 14:35 »
    People like me make thousands of posts to be the drunk awkward invitee in a party that sits in a corner insulting everyone within arms reach (I think I may have forummed drunk a couple of times).... you make one post and in the folklore.
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  • kabloemski

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #739 on: June 09, 2013, 18:23 »
    Every rider should come under the same cynicism

    Exactly.
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  • Hey, Bart! Your epidermis is showing!

    Tuart

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #740 on: June 10, 2013, 03:08 »
    I suppose Porte has a similar nickname like Bassons then? 'Mr Clean'? Bassons was the exception to the rule ;)

    I still ask the question, where, when and how did the doping stop?

    In my book every rider does come under the same scrutiny, criticism and cynicism, but I only post about those at the pointy end who are the more obvious. I rarely waste my time posting about Contador, Piti, Purito and the likes, as for me these guys are and were never clean. Teams like Movi, SaxoT, Katusha, Astana are doping teams. The see it as integral to the sport.

    1. You're picking and choosing

    2. This question doesn't have any relevancy to why Porte definitely is a doper. You're going on about the whole of the sport, I'm questioning singling out a specific rider to label as such above the normal level of suspicion.

    3. If cycling and doping is that cut-and-dried for you and they're all doing it, then why hang around a doping forum and comment about specific riders? Your answer to everything is the same, what's there to change or gain?
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  • Tuart

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #741 on: June 10, 2013, 03:10 »
    YOU were the one who introduced Richie portes 2010 giro mountain finishing positions to the discussion a few posts ago, arguing that they were domonstrative of a top climber.
    No, I gave evidence to indicate that talent for Richie Porte's climbing (and time-trialling) ability was there since the 2010 Giro. Go and read back, I'd love for you to find a quote where I said Porte was a top climber.

    I disagreed with that assessment, and offered my own analysis of the those finishes,  purely as a counterpoint to yours. There wasn't even any doping talk in my response. I pointed out what riders finished around him, and the advantages he had at his disposal.

    All team leaders have advantages to their disposals, is Nibali any less of a climber because he had Agnoli, Kangert and Aru around him this Giro? Porte had the advantage of L'Aquila to be able to show what he was able to do (at that time. in 2010. As a Neo Pro) with the team at his disposal. He showed he could climb in the top 20 of riders in that Giro. This is not the Men's Cycling forum, I'm not having a battle of who is the better climber, 2010 Szymd or 2010 Porte, the only point I am making there, which I am backing up with results from the 2010 Giro, is that Porte showed ability to climb. I didn't say he was elite, I'm not moving goalposts, I'm not reading tea leaves how I wish. If you disagree with that, fine. But then you're also disagreeing that all those mentioned, they can't climb either. Mollema, Kiserlovski, Kruijswijk, Ardila, Samoilau, Pinotti, Dani Moreno, Karpets, Efimkin, Dupont. No ability to climb either. :rolleye

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  • « Last Edit: June 10, 2013, 06:12 by AG, Reason: unnecessary »

    kabloemski

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #742 on: June 10, 2013, 08:47 »
    People like me make thousands of posts to be the drunk awkward invitee in a party that sits in a corner insulting everyone within arms reach

    Ram, those guests are always the most memorable and a guaranteed antidote to a boring gathering :-)
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  • kabloemski

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #743 on: June 10, 2013, 08:59 »
    it being a circular debate with no real points being made either way

    Exactly.

    And looks like we'll never know anyway, the science is just too good? I'm over trying to figure out whose poster I can safely tack on my wall, I've gone back to enjoying cycling for the reasons I started following the TdF in high school back in the 90's - the beautiful scenery, and hot men in Lycra.
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  • benotti69

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #744 on: June 10, 2013, 12:43 »
    1. You're picking and choosing

    Of course I am picking and choosing. I dont have time to post about every rider in the peloton who does something. Porte has.

    2. This question doesn't have any relevancy to why Porte definitely is a doper. You're going on about the whole of the sport, I'm questioning singling out a specific rider to label as such above the normal level of suspicion.

    I am basing my opinions on them all taking substances that they use to improve their performances. It is easy. They talk, walk and ride like the peloton has done by and large. Porte has improved dramatically at a team that is suspect. He has worked with a doping doctor, Leinders, has worked with dodgy DSs, Riis and Yates to name 2. This makes his performnaces suspicious to me.

    3. If cycling and doping is that cut-and-dried for you and they're all doing it, then why hang around a doping forum and comment about specific riders? Your answer to everything is the same, what's there to change or gain?

    Becuase it is important to dicsuss this and bring it to a larger audience. Lots of cycling forums will not allow doping talk.

    My answer is the same based on nothing having changed in the sport. Armstrong/Bruyneel/Stapleton were spouting how clean and transparent they were and i see nothing new with Sky doing the same. Armstrong told the press he dumped Ferarri and he was only using him for training plans ( see Italian riders givng same excuse lately) but we know now that was BS. Did Sky dump Leinders? He is not on their books but then neither was Ferarri on USPS books.

    UCI still the same. Bloodtesting down a third on recent years. Plenty of doping being found out. Plenty of ex dopers still riding to high levels.

    So nope nothing has changed. Yesterday, Martin and Hesjedal finished with the likes of Scarponi, Visconti and Kreusiger. So called clean riders climbing with clients of Ferarri and Fuentes????
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  • Tuart

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #745 on: June 11, 2013, 09:20 »
    Of course I am picking and choosing. I dont have time to post about every rider in the peloton who does something. Porte has.

    But is your response the same everytime someone wins a WT event and they're not on the team of one the Axis of Evil? If I try and find a thread for Dan Martin after Catalunya, will I find it?

    I am basing my opinions on them all taking substances that they use to improve their performances. It is easy. They talk, walk and ride like the peloton has done by and large. Porte has improved dramatically at a team that is suspect. He has worked with a doping doctor, Leinders, has worked with dodgy DSs, Riis and Yates to name 2. This makes his performnaces suspicious to me.

    Firstly, if they all use "substances", then none of these performances would be out of the ordinary, by your expectations anyway, so why bring it up for a specific rider? Porte hasn't improved "dramatically", that is what the last page a bit has been discussing. He's shown signs from his very first GT. Only now that he's at Sky and riding well are people taking creative liberties with their eulogising, its the same with Chris Froome, who apparently didn't exist before 2011, yet a simple google search would prove otherwise. Again, the connections mean nothing. Otherwise, I can just as equally say "McGee is a clean DS, therefore Porte must be clean". A link to a former doper/doctor/DS does not equal proof that a rider is doping.

    Quote from: author=benotti69 link=topic=636.msg102973#msg102973 date=1370864623
    Becuase it is important to dicsuss this and bring it to a larger audience. Lots of cycling forums will not allow doping talk.

    My answer is the same based on nothing having changed in the sport. Armstrong/Bruyneel/Stapleton were spouting how clean and transparent they were and i see nothing new with Sky doing the same. Armstrong told the press he dumped Ferarri and he was only using him for training plans ( see Italian riders givng same excuse lately) but we know now that was BS. Did Sky dump Leinders? He is not on their books but then neither was Ferarri on USPS books.

    UCI still the same. Bloodtesting down a third on recent years. Plenty of doping being found out. Plenty of ex dopers still riding to high levels.

    So nope nothing has changed. Yesterday, Martin and Hesjedal finished with the likes of Scarponi, Visconti and Kreusiger. So called clean riders climbing with clients of Ferarri and Fuentes????

    I didn't take you for an evangelical! You must be the cycling forum version of a Jehovah Witness. Pity I don't see any philistines about.

    After Festina, the Peloton sped up. After the LA era, has the same thing happened? It it simplification and pigeon-holing to just say that "it's just the same". That's a cop out.

    The UCI, is another kettle of fish, there's plenty of problems there that need to be razed, still doesn't mean anything about Porte. Testing - what was all this discussion about a new EPO test then? If anti-doping is falling by the way side, why are there riders still being caught? Make up your mind. If they didn't catch anyone, how is that proof that cycling is clean? That's the otherside of the coin to what you're assuming.

    You're just falling down a slippery slope, you're assuming that at the moment, every rider is at their peak, that the known-dopers are on a full dosage. There are a million variances in racing to begin with. Where do you stop then? You could keep going down the list and then start questioning why 100 riders are climbing better than XY ex-doper. It's inane.

    Without any sort of proof, I don't no believe that 100% of the peloton is doping. As such, aside from the normal level of cynicism and risk, aside from facepalming over a few incidents (eg tour of turkey), then I won't believe without actual proof and not innuendo, that a rider has any more chance of being a doper than any other.
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  • Slow Rider

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #746 on: June 11, 2013, 10:01 »
    I fully agree with Tuart here. I see no reason not to believe the peloton is significantly cleaner. Yes, there are still dopers, some probably on a larger scale than others. I'll even agree that a large majority probably does some dudgy stuff that is only semi-legal. However I simply don't believe all riders are doped. Looking at Garmin, Argos, Blanco, FDJ, Lotto... There is just no way those teams and riders are doped. Obviously there are exceptions (Lulu), but no matter how hard I try I cant bring up the cynicism to believe there is a team-wide doping programme at those teams.

    About Sky, I honestly don't know whether the whole team is doped or only a few riders. I have seen nothing from Porte that is more suspect than I have seen from anyone else. His development doesn't seem natural to me, and as search says I don't see him as a candidate for top-5 at the Tour anyway. Porte should come under the same cynicism all other riders do. I'd say he's more suspicious than average, certainly more so than, say, Tobias Ludvigsson. But he is not nearly as suspicious as a Valverde or Contador, to name some.
  • ReplyReply

  • kabloemski

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #747 on: June 12, 2013, 10:06 »
    I'm so over this thread, and threads like 'Why I don't like Chris Froome' - nobody knows for sure, all pure speculation, and people getting their knickers in a knot over BS. It all sounds like the kind of chats one caught on the playground in high school.

    But thanks, I've been struggling to motivate myself to get out there and get a life, at the very least this thread and others like it are doing an awesome job :win
  • ReplyReply

  • Tuart

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #748 on: June 13, 2013, 11:30 »
    I fully agree with Tuart here. I see no reason not to believe the peloton is significantly cleaner. Yes, there are still dopers, some probably on a larger scale than others. I'll even agree that a large majority probably does some dudgy stuff that is only semi-legal. However I simply don't believe all riders are doped. Looking at Garmin, Argos, Blanco, FDJ, Lotto... There is just no way those teams and riders are doped. Obviously there are exceptions (Lulu), but no matter how hard I try I cant bring up the cynicism to believe there is a team-wide doping programme at those teams.

    About Sky, I honestly don't know whether the whole team is doped or only a few riders. I have seen nothing from Porte that is more suspect than I have seen from anyone else. His development doesn't seem natural to me, and as search says I don't see him as a candidate for top-5 at the Tour anyway. Porte should come under the same cynicism all other riders do. I'd say he's more suspicious than average, certainly more so than, say, Tobias Ludvigsson. But he is not nearly as suspicious as a Valverde or Contador, to name some.

    This is what I don't get.

    2010: Neo-pro that finishes top 10 in the Giro and wins white
    2011: Becomes Bertie's bitch and focuses year round on the TT
    2012: Focuses on his climbing and becomes a super-dom in the Wiggins-train
    2013: Starts winning one-week races for himself

    I don't get what is absolutely unnatural about that. Nor can I fathom what people are exactly looking for as to what is acceptable "development". I don't know if its personal bias, confirmation bias or what but come on, he's no Santambrogio going from an obscure domestique to top climber in 6 months. For example, if he was Colombian, he'd be lauded as a natural talent finally delivering on his potential and no eyelids raised.

  • ReplyReply

  • froome19

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #749 on: June 13, 2013, 12:09 »
    This is what I don't get.

    2010: Neo-pro that finishes top 10 in the Giro and wins white
    2011: Becomes Bertie's bitch and focuses year round on the TT
    2012: Focuses on his climbing and becomes a super-dom in the Wiggins-train
    2013: Starts winning one-week races for himself
    Nevermind that, there is also this article; http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/richie-porte-great-expectations  you can't really comment on Porte's 2011 season and what it entails without having read this article as it explains why it went the way it did. Considering that, it is effectively one year null and so not surprising that he jumped to his 2012 level.

    That is part of the problem here, so much is based on performances and the perceptions it creates. There is so much more we do not know about which factors into rider's performances that to guesstimate based on performances does seem foolhardy in retrospect.
  • ReplyReply
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