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LukasCPH

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Re: Sky
« Reply #1980 on: April 20, 2017, 10:02 »
Quick-Step podiumed: Le Samyn, P-Nice, Sanremo, Dwars(win), E3Prijs, DePanne(win), Flanders(win), Scheldeprijs(win), Roubaix, Brabantse Pijl, Amstel(win), Fleche

won 5 stage in San Luis, 3 stages and GC in Dubai, 2 stages Algarve
Ah, but that's mostly classics and stages. That means it's OK. :P
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  • 2017 0711|CYCLING PR Manager; 2016 Stölting Content Editor
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    RIP Keith

    just some guy

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #1981 on: April 20, 2017, 10:05 »
    I always laugh at people when they say Sky Diminate

    Wiggo did

    Froome Does

    but they don´t win that much if you remove those 2
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  • Of course, if this turns out someday to be the industry standard integrated handlebar-computer-braking solution then I'll eat my kevlar-reinforced aerodynamic hat.

    Larri Nov 12, 2014

    AG

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #1982 on: April 20, 2017, 10:18 »
    the dominate in a different way.  They use the team differently.

    Quickstep have used their team to attack and send people off the front, then control things behind to allow their guy the best chance - and its paid off.  Different guys have won because they have a good depth of talent.

    Sky too have a good depth of talent, but they use that talent ALL IN for the one guy.  Many of the doms at Sky could have been successful in their own right, but have been used in the Sky train to control things for the GC guy (whether it was Wiggo, Froome or in some cases Porte)

    It means the results sheets look different - but both teams have dominated the respective races they have targetted.

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  • just some guy

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #1983 on: April 20, 2017, 10:21 »
    Movistar says hello
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  • Mellow Velo

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #1984 on: April 20, 2017, 12:19 »
    I always laugh at people when they say Sky Diminate

    Wiggo did

    Froome Does

    but they don´t win that much if you remove those 2

     Very true.
     For the most part, folks who that say Sky dominate are generally those who have Sky constantly on their radar, for whatever reason.
     I think it's fair to say that they are almost permanently in Digger's cross hairs, to the point of being unhealthy.
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  • "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.

    Carlo Algatrensig

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #1985 on: April 20, 2017, 20:30 »
    Very true.
     For the most part, folks who that say Sky dominate are generally those who have Sky constantly on their radar, for whatever reason.
     I think it's fair to say that they are almost permanently in Digger's cross hairs, to the point of being unhealthy.

    It doesnt help their cause when they say things that are demonstrably untrue. I don't think it was Digger but after Poels won last years LBL there were tweets along the lines of.

    "A rider who has never won a race before suddenly wins a monument?"

    and

    "someone whose best result before this was 2nd overall at the Tour of Britain winning a monument?"

    both untrue and probably an attempt to play to an audience who are just anti sky and accept anything derogatory towards them as being accurate.
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  • Mellow Velo

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #1986 on: May 01, 2017, 19:17 »
     Moscon gets a "Grivko" and has to go on an "awareness" course.

    https://www.teamsky.com/article/gianni-moscon
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  • t-72

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #1987 on: May 01, 2017, 19:56 »
    Moscon gets a "Grivko" and has to go on an "awareness" course.

    https://www.teamsky.com/article/gianni-moscon

    Grivko was handed a UCI ban, this is a Team Sky internal decision, if I understand things correctly. I would not call that a 'Grivko' as this is Team Sky's attempt at avoiding a longer and less convenient ban for one of their most promising athletes, courtesy of the UCI. Note there is some presedence in an earlier case involving Nathaniel Berhane and Branislav Samoilau in which case a reasonable settlement including one month's salary sent to the Qhubeka foundation was involved, and no bans were issued by the UCI.

    Personally I like the approach taken by Sky. They are trying to protect one of their team's athletes. Not doing so would be seen as disloyalty in many cultures probably including Italy, an important market for Sky. At the same time they are making a strong statement that his employer has decided this behavior is not permitted at work, and that he violated rules or expectations regarding his professional conduct. Convincing Moscon that racism is wrong comes way down as third point on the list: the "awareness" course will make a more politically correct professional out of him, but it is not necessarily something that will convince him at heart.

    That's ok - even if I am not a racist myself. The sports world isn't isolated from what's going on in society and we should expect that there are some racists in all races, in the audience, watching tv, reading the forums and so on. I don't believe in boycotts and bans of incorrect political views very much. I would rather say that the more often sports bring everybody together to play, the more likely it is that sports are contributing to the elimination of these tendencies.   
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  • Mellow Velo

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #1988 on: May 01, 2017, 20:10 »
     Sorry, the British fondness for slang.
    The "Grivko" simply meant that it's roughly the same duration of suspension.
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  • Flo

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #1989 on: May 01, 2017, 21:44 »
    They let him finish Romandie, then give him a 6 week ban, while he was always going to have a 7 week break. Laughable.
    I'm not necessarily saying he should be punished more harshly, but this is more PR spin from Sky.
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  • RIP Keith

    LukasCPH

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #1990 on: May 01, 2017, 22:39 »
    They let him finish Romandie, then give him a 6 week ban, while he was always going to have a 7 week break. Laughable.
    I'm not necessarily saying he should be punished more harshly, but this is more PR spin from Sky.
    That is just it.
    If he'd been on the shortlist for the Giro, or California, or even the Tour of Norway ... but this? It's less effective than di Luca's three-month 'ban' in 2005.[1]
     1. and other similar off-season 'suspensions'
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  • AG

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #1991 on: May 02, 2017, 00:29 »
    I do like the idea of Sky taking some disciplinary action over the incident.  A formal warning and suspension is all good - but it does have to mean something.

    If he wasnt scheduled to race over that time, he isnt really missing anything so it doesnt mean much.

    Is that an indication of how they see this?
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  • Mellow Velo

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #1992 on: May 02, 2017, 08:22 »
    That is just it.
    If he'd been on the shortlist for the Giro, or California, or even the Tour of Norway ... but this? It's less effective than di Luca's three-month 'ban' in 2005.[1]
     1. and other similar off-season 'suspensions'

     Does anybody have a link for this?
    I have read this now in several posts around the various forum, but have no idea beyond PCS where to look to find this info.
    All I can find there for Cali is Ian Bosworth.
    I have been asked about it and don't have an answer.
    Help, please.
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  • LukasCPH

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #1993 on: May 02, 2017, 08:42 »
    Does anybody have a link for this?
    I have read this now in several posts around the various forum, but have no idea beyond PCS where to look to find this info.
    All I can find there for Cali is Ian Bosworth.
    I have been asked about it and don't have an answer.
    Help, please.
    I just assumed they'd do California, because they always did until now. That's all.
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  • Mellow Velo

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #1994 on: May 02, 2017, 09:16 »
    I just assumed they'd do California, because they always did until now. That's all.

     Yeah, it's usually one team to Cali, and Froome's lot to Tenerife in mid May.

    A pity.
     Nothing to do with Moscon or Sky, but I'd hoped I could used a data source for an early head's up for my fantasy teams. :fp :D

    Post Merge: May 02, 2017, 16:36
    They let him finish Romandie, then give him a 6 week ban, while he was always going to have a 7 week break. Laughable.
    I'm not necessarily saying he should be punished more harshly, but this is more PR spin from Sky.

     Well, I'm still to see anything that confirms he was a definitely a non participant in Cali, as he rode it last year and so far Sky have only confirmed Ian Boswell.
    But anyhow, looking at PCS, I believe his page has been updated since yesterday..
    According to them, he won't be riding the Tour of Switzerland or any other race until August 1st and the Tour of Burgos.
    So, that would be exactly 3 months.
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  • « Last Edit: May 02, 2017, 16:36 by Mellow Velo, Reason: Merged DoublePost »

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #1995 on: June 20, 2017, 08:14 »
    Personally I like the approach taken by Sky. They are trying to protect one of their team's athletes. Not doing so would be seen as disloyalty in many cultures probably including Italy, an important market for Sky. At the same time they are making a strong statement that his employer has decided this behavior is not permitted at work, and that he violated rules or expectations regarding his professional conduct. Convincing Moscon that racism is wrong comes way down as third point on the list: the "awareness" course will make a more politically correct professional out of him, but it is not necessarily something that will convince him at heart.

    not quite, no

    "I didn't kill anyone and the accusations are not completely founded. But I'd prefer to not talk about it anymore. I've always had a lot of support from my colleagues; they knew it was something ridiculous. A lot of people cheered for me during the race," he explained. I don't think I need to rebuild my image. The people who support me have understood, those that don't have used it to attack me."

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/moscon-moves-on-after-racism-ban-my-conscience-is-clear-i-accepted-the-punishment/

    yeah, Gianni, flip you then :wave
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  • "If this is cycling, I am a banana"

    just some guy

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #1996 on: June 20, 2017, 11:45 »
    not quite, no

    "I didn't kill anyone and the accusations are not completely founded. But I'd prefer to not talk about it anymore. I've always had a lot of support from my colleagues; they knew it was something ridiculous. A lot of people cheered for me during the race," he explained. I don't think I need to rebuild my image. The people who support me have understood, those that don't have used it to attack me."

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/moscon-moves-on-after-racism-ban-my-conscience-is-clear-i-accepted-the-punishment/

    yeah, Gianni, flip you then :wave

    yep
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  • Carlo Algatrensig

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #1997 on: June 25, 2017, 00:26 »
    I know this is a bit late for when it happened but I do wonder what the reaction to Swift's 2nd place on the stage to Alpe D'Huez at the Dauphine would have been if he was still at Sky and the rider who had won it was a non Sky rider. I know this might seem a bit of a stange thing to postulate but from what I've seen there was very little skepticism to his performance that day but I do think if it had occured while still at Sky people would be questioning it.
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  • AG

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #1998 on: June 25, 2017, 00:59 »
    there was a fiar bit of talk about it at the time - but keep it in perspective, it was in a break ... its not like he went from the GC group at the bottom.
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  • Capt_Cavman

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #1999 on: June 25, 2017, 14:56 »
    He's also been over the high stuff with the climbers before. In the Giro I think.

    Sky never put the talent to good use, the MSR podiums seemed accidental, but I think he could challenge for a points jersey given the right GT. (and no Sagan)
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  • pastronef

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #2000 on: June 26, 2017, 20:08 »
    anti-brit bias aside. is "the most incredible donkey to racehorse" stuff, about Froome, somehow related to the how the people perceive what should be fair or not?

    is that thing choking in the followers throats every time they see Froome, because it is not allowed?

    because ok gimme Boonen or Alberto and I will close eyes and ears and WANT to support them, while seeing Froome do the same it touches the "truth" alarm and also involves Alberto and Boonen and Nibali (who won 4 GT like Froome) and all the others cause they dope too?

    is Froome madness also ringing a bell for everyone? and that means people really understand they support dopers too, while before they pretended they didnt see? they pretended it was normal, it was the old euro doping tradition?

    are we seeing the pesky brits doing what they werent supposed to do, go berzerk, win the Tours, and shake the old status quo where the old nations did the same but it was always so and it was fine?
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  • Slapshot

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #2001 on: June 29, 2017, 15:28 »
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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #2002 on: July 17, 2017, 17:31 »
    So the numpty that wanted to use journalist Lawton, getting him to drop the jiffy bag story because he was going to offer Lawton a far better one about another team doping, now gets shirty about the "professionalism" of journalists because of some mild hectoring over on Cyclingnews !  I see ......So they are only to do that when you want them to play that way...When it is your turn they must.................

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/brailsford-launches-rant-against-cyclingnews-journalist/#disqus_thread

    "You can stick it up your arse."  "Well maybe I should because I certainly know that it is a pretty crowded place up yours!"

    Perhaps Brailsford will reflect on who it was who gave Lawton the story and  who recruited that person to BC in the first place.

    Poor Dave, all them nasty opinions and that "fake news".  Glad to hear he went out for a rest day ride with the riders.  Got to get the weight down.  Next, one of them nasty people in the press will make up some fake news like saying Sir David is also shooting Kenacourt to lose weight.   

    How is Froome's Badzilla these days by the way ?
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  • AG

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #2003 on: July 18, 2017, 02:10 »
    For me the question is - was it a press conference, or just a private interview?

    I dont have an issue with Team managers or PR people granting interviews to those they prefer, and not to those who write BS about them.

    I DO though, have an issue with teams excluding journalists or news outlets from press conferences ... on the rest day .... during cyclings biggest event for the year ... when the team has the race leader.   

    I do have an issue with teams telling journalists to "shove it' in public in front of a bunch of other journo's because they dont like what is being written. 

    Its a fair sized line, and Sky go way over it - often.


    It takes us back to Lance Armstrong and the power in the media due to basic bullying tactics.   

    I get that it is tough for teams, Sky especially, when the media are so negative and write allegations every day ... but they are the leaders, they have won the race 4 times in recent years, and are facing a current, open doping investigation.  That means they ARE going to get hard questions ask about them.  Every day.

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