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Capt_Cavman

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Re: Sky
« Reply #210 on: July 11, 2012, 20:52 »
Who bothers me a lot too is Richie Porte, he has gone from the guy who did the work on the flat for SaxoBank last year, to the guy who rolls back GC winners in who are attacking at almost full gas. I mean, Porte had to do the work at SaxoBank because he got dropped like a rock when the gradient rose to 2%.

136th in the stage to Gardeccia in the 2011 Giro, 93rd in the Mountain Time Trial which wasnt even a tough climb but had a few kms flat before the climb too. The stage to the Etna was his best result on the mountains that Giro, frikking 65th. And now Richie Porte is riding the Grand Colombier & Richemont on front and reels back in Nibali? I'm sorry, but how could I not be cynical after seeing this.

We've knocked this one around a few times, but here goes again,

1) Richie Porte had an outstanding first year in Europe,  10th Romandie, 7th Giro, 4th Eneco, 4th ToB. Are we supposed to ignore that ever happened? Sky weren't the only team who didn't because there was a long queue for his signature.

2) Saxo changed radically in terms of personnel, both riding and support staff, between the two years. It isn't hard to imagine how an inexperienced rider might not react well to such an overhaul.

3) Clearly year 2 at Saxo went horribly wrong in terms of climbing but TTing not so much, 3rd PN, 8th Vasco, 1st Castila y Leon, 2nd Romandie, 3rd Giro, 4th TdF, 1st Denmark, 6th Worlds. Clearly his role isn't the same at Sky, or if the role is the same, it shows how badly Saxo screwed up, rather than that Porte must be doping.
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  • Zam

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #211 on: July 11, 2012, 20:56 »
    Kimmage rubbishing cycling once again, oh will he never tire of rubbishing cycling. Frankly I will never understand why he choses cycling, tarnishs cycling as much as the dopers.

    Do you believe the  mouth/keyboard  that comes out your arse? 

    Here enjoy

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  • Anthony Moan

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #212 on: July 11, 2012, 20:57 »
     ;D, Jessu Havy they are all over your ass ;D, guys leave Havy alone, Jesus :fp
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  • Reverend Fred Saves!!

    flicker2.0

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #213 on: July 11, 2012, 21:35 »
    Do you believe the  mouth/keyboard  that comes out your arse? 

    Here enjoy



    So, basically Kimmage is the good guy here, Sky, Yates, Wiggins, including Cavendish: the team are the bad guys. So Kimmage says Sky are cheats, and that is good? Because Wiggins basically says the people who attack riders on twitter, need to be productive in their lives and get a job, a life. I think that is good advice by Wiggins, but that is just me. That makes Wiggins a bad guy? Because Wiggins appreciates Armstrong, that makes Wiggins a doper, and a cheat?
    I guess I am the idiot here, chapaue.
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  • Zam

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #214 on: July 11, 2012, 21:44 »
    So, basically Kimmage is the good guy here, Sky, Yates, Wiggins, including Cavendish: the team are the bad guys. So Kimmage says Sky are cheats, and that is good? Because Wiggins basically says the people who attack riders on twitter, need to be productive in their lives and get a job, a life. I think that is good advice by Wiggins, but that is just me. That makes Wiggins a bad guy? Because Wiggins appreciates Armstrong, that makes Wiggins a doper, and a cheat?
    I guess I am the idiot here, chapaue.

    I am not talking about wiggins being a bad guy or sky here but whatever makes you happy.
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  • Mellow Velo

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #215 on: July 11, 2012, 21:57 »
    We've knocked this one around a few times, but here goes again,

    1) Richie Porte had an outstanding first year in Europe,  10th Romandie, 7th Giro, 4th Eneco, 4th ToB. Are we supposed to ignore that ever happened? Sky weren't the only team who didn't because there was a long queue for his signature.

    2) Saxo changed radically in terms of personnel, both riding and support staff, between the two years. It isn't hard to imagine how an inexperienced rider might not react well to such an overhaul.

    3) Clearly year 2 at Saxo went horribly wrong in terms of climbing but TTing not so much, 3rd PN, 8th Vasco, 1st Castila y Leon, 2nd Romandie, 3rd Giro, 4th TdF, 1st Denmark, 6th Worlds. Clearly his role isn't the same at Sky, or if the role is the same, it shows how badly Saxo screwed up, rather than that Porte must be doping.

     Yes.
     Seems a lot of folks want to dismiss what I recall was a very impressive first year, (I remember a lot of predictions about a great future. Lovely guy etc) in favour of a miserable and unhappy second year, because it doesn't fit their theory.

      Porte taking back 30 seconds in 10-12kms from Nibali after their respective efforts, is only "suspect", if you ignore 2010 and use 2011 as your immovable benchmark.

     That's July for you.
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  • "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.

    Lanced Armprong

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #216 on: July 11, 2012, 21:58 »
    Who bothers me a lot too is Richie Porte, he has gone from the guy who did the work on the flat for SaxoBank last year, to the guy who rolls back GC winners in who are attacking at almost full gas. I mean, Porte had to do the work at SaxoBank because he got dropped like a rock when the gradient rose to 2%.

    136th in the stage to Gardeccia in the 2011 Giro, 93rd in the Mountain Time Trial which wasnt even a tough climb but had a few kms flat before the climb too. The stage to the Etna was his best result on the mountains that Giro, frikking 65th. And now Richie Porte is riding the Grand Colombier & Richemont on front and reels back in Nibali? I'm sorry, but how could I not be cynical after seeing this.

    Might be a bit like Gilbert last year smashing everything, but this year can't win a thing. Riders peak, riders slump.

    Seeing that video of Lance going up Sestriere highlights one thing - they don't climb like that anymore, so I'd like to think the peloton is a bit cleaner.
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  • Lanced Armprong

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #217 on: July 11, 2012, 21:59 »
    With regards to Porte, I was chuffed to bits when Sky signed him as I'd seen the potential during a previous Giro. Then I promptly forgot all about it once Cav signed and took the limelight :)
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  • Zam

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #218 on: July 11, 2012, 22:04 »
    So not a chance that anyone on teamsky is doping?
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  • Lanced Armprong

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #219 on: July 11, 2012, 22:12 »
    Never say never! Been bitten on the arse before. I'd like to think they're not, to the point that I root for them at every race. I like the way they've trained this year - it breeds improvement. Think about how Brailsford has helped to bring in better training methods to BC before Sky started.

    Eh, everyone has different opinions on it - only Team Sky know for sure :)
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  • Capt_Cavman

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #220 on: July 11, 2012, 22:28 »
    So not a chance that anyone on teamsky is doping?
    No, none.









    Apart from Froome






    and Rogers









    and maybe Siutsou





    I dunno, there's doping and there's doping. If there is dopng going on, it's no more than the same riders were doing previously without all this excitement about their performances. Apart from Froome, I don't see any suspicious turnaround in ability, no donkey to racehorse syndrome. Sky have bought in a stable full of good GT riders and they're using them to pursue one aim, and it's working; partly due to the quality and togetherness of the riders, partly due to the route, partly due to the weakness of the field. But I don't see how you can blame Sky for any of the above.
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  • Lanced Armprong

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #221 on: July 11, 2012, 22:33 »
    Sky have bought in a stable full of good GT riders and they're using them to pursue one aim, and it's working; partly due to the quality and togetherness of the riders, partly due to the route, partly due to the weakness of the field. But I don't see how you can blame Sky for any of the above.

    QFT

    Also, on your comment about the route, put this Sky team in either the TdF or Giro in 2009, and watch them get their arses handed to them. Like the Green jersey comp was tailored for Cav last year, this TdF parcours seems perfect for Sky.
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  • flicker2.0

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #222 on: July 11, 2012, 22:34 »
    So not a chance that anyone on teamsky is doping?

    Not a chance.  If SKY were doping, before the London Olympics, and with Wiggins, Cav., the track team, having a great chance at medals, Sky or any of their members would be fools to take risk of a doping detection. Like the other poster said, no riders are flying uphills like Armstrong used to in Le Tour, this year. My point is , even if Kimmage suspects, it is not the right time for him to cast shadow on the British Team in my opinion. The video of Armstrong in 1999 is very impressive. I really did not watch cycling at that time. It is kind of sick actually.
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  • Capt_Cavman

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #223 on: July 11, 2012, 22:44 »
    Not a chance.  If SKY were doping, before the London Olympics, and with Wiggins, Cav., the track team, having a great chance at medals, Sky or any of their members would be fools to take risk of a doping detection. Like the other poster said, no riders are flying uphills like Armstrong used to in Le Tour, this year. My point is , even if Kimmage suspects, it is not the right time for him to cast shadow on the British Team in my opinion. The video of Armstrong in 1999 is very impressive. I really did not watch cycling at that time. It is kind of sick actually.
    6 minutes on the field after a TT and a mountain stage. Different days indeed.

    Disagree with you about Kimmage though. I think his points are valid and he above anyone else has the right to air them.
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  • Lanced Armprong

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #224 on: July 11, 2012, 22:49 »
    The main problem of this tour will be the fact that Sky are trying to win in a "boring" way. We as fans want to see crazy attacks, but they have done their homework on this Tour, and then some, so are going to follow their plan to the letter. I hope they do it - Britain needs a TdF winner if it's to encourage more and more kids to take it up and become elite cyclists. I just hope that next year, we get a Tour that has those crazy attacks :)
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  • Capt_Cavman

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #225 on: July 11, 2012, 23:01 »
    The main problem of this tour will be the fact that Sky are trying to win in a "boring" way. We as fans want to see crazy attacks, but they have done their homework on this Tour, and then some, so are going to follow their plan to the letter. I hope they do it - Britain needs a TdF winner if it's to encourage more and more kids to take it up and become elite cyclists. I just hope that next year, we get a Tour that has those crazy attacks :)
    +1

    I also think that Sky haven't made themselves too popular, brash assertions about winning the Tour within 5 years, (how we all laughed and us Brits had to pretend they didn't really mean it as Bradley came in 25th). Combine that with a lot of purchasing power and a lot of statements on team ethics that haven't really been lived up to and I'd hate them too if I wasn't British.
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  • killswitch

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #226 on: July 11, 2012, 23:07 »
    So not a chance that anyone on teamsky is doping?
    No. /thread
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  • Joelsim: The huge winner today - Landa.
    just some guy: Aye he marginal gained the flip out of it

    TheNightRider

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #227 on: July 11, 2012, 23:26 »
    Kimmage came across as having a grudge. Wiggins ruined his vacation with sky so he doesn't like him. But there is nothing of substance in what he says that indicates Sky are doping. There is only a tenuous link with a part time doctor who is linked to the team, who isn't even at the tour. Kimmage is entitled to continue to play the role of doubting Thomas, but I am not buying to the logic.
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  • The Hitch

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #228 on: July 12, 2012, 00:57 »
    We've knocked this one around a few times, but here goes again,

    1) Richie Porte had an outstanding first year in Europe,  10th Romandie, 7th Giro, 4th Eneco, 4th ToB. Are we supposed to ignore that ever happened? Sky weren't the only team who didn't because there was a long queue for his signature.



    10th in romandie aint that much to brag about, especially when it came from winning a  long tt in which Valverde came 2nd.

    giro was not that special either - compared to what he is doing now. I mean once the big mountains came he was losing minutes. he held the pink for a flat stage then lost it to Arroyo over monte grappa, hardly the most challenging mountain stage they had that year. He lost what was it 4 on Zoncolan and more of the same on Mortirolo. And by this point he had all team leader privelages behind him and was fighting for the white.

    In fact you do not mention the best performance he had that year, and the one that might just could have suggested there was some real climbing talent in him. Going with the heads of state in San sebatian despite not doing the TDF.
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  • Despite the self-serving data benders and associated propaganda to the contrary, I am led to believe that there are pockets of organised, highly sophisticated dopers, even within 'new age' cycling teams. Personally, I don't accept that the 'dark era' has ended, it has just morphed into a new guise.

    Dim

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #229 on: July 12, 2012, 01:01 »
    Been watching videos of climbs from the 96 - 99 tours. Puts all the claims about sky doping in perspective :D
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  • AG

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #230 on: July 12, 2012, 01:28 »
    wow - just reading the CN piece on his interview ...

    and seriously - I dont care whether he has a program or not, what an arrogant asshole.

    he has this whole 'entitled' attitude that is the kind of thing I hate.
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  • Arb

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #231 on: July 12, 2012, 02:29 »
    Who bothers me a lot too is Richie Porte, he has gone from the guy who did the work on the flat for SaxoBank last year, to the guy who rolls back GC winners in who are attacking at almost full gas. I mean, Porte had to do the work at SaxoBank because he got dropped like a rock when the gradient rose to 2%.

    136th in the stage to Gardeccia in the 2011 Giro, 93rd in the Mountain Time Trial which wasnt even a tough climb but had a few kms flat before the climb too. The stage to the Etna was his best result on the mountains that Giro, frikking 65th. And now Richie Porte is riding the Grand Colombier & Richemont on front and reels back in Nibali? I'm sorry, but how could I not be cynical after seeing this.

    It's possible that Porte wasn't doping at Saxo.

    Plus he had some reasonable moments (was in the group until Giau caught fire). His time trialing was consistently good which suggested his lack of climbing ability was partly a weight problem. We know he has dropped weight and his TT has suffered as a result - this was evident in January. But I'd put him in the top10 climbers this year, so yeh. Hopefully they allow to train to break up next year and they try and win all three GTs.
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  • TheNightRider

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #232 on: July 12, 2012, 03:04 »
    wow - just reading the CN piece on his interview ...

    and seriously - I dont care whether he has a program or not, what an arrogant asshole.

    he has this whole 'entitled' attitude that is the kind of thing I hate.

    How do you form that conclusion from not allowing a journalist to follow him around everywhere, and one tweet? Wiggins is one of the most humble cyclists out there.
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  • AG

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #233 on: July 12, 2012, 03:15 »
    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/wiggins-im-not-some-s-t-rider-who-has-come-from-nowhere

    I'm not saying whether he is or isn't, but that is NOT the defense to be using at this point.


    Night rider. This is the piece I was talking about.

    Not just one tweet
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  • TheNightRider

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #234 on: July 12, 2012, 03:25 »

    Night rider. This is the piece I was talking about.

    Not just one tweet

    I thought it was refreshingly honest. He's just answering questions and not listening to PR people. Maybe he's talking about it too much now, but when other riders refuse to talk about it, they are criticized.

    You are reading way too much into it.
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  • Gravel Rash

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #235 on: July 12, 2012, 03:49 »
    We've knocked this one around a few times, but here goes again,

    1) Richie Porte had an outstanding first year in Europe,  10th Romandie, 7th Giro, 4th Eneco, 4th ToB. Are we supposed to ignore that ever happened? Sky weren't the only team who didn't because there was a long queue for his signature.

    2) Saxo changed radically in terms of personnel, both riding and support staff, between the two years. It isn't hard to imagine how an inexperienced rider might not react well to such an overhaul.

    3) Clearly year 2 at Saxo went horribly wrong in terms of climbing but TTing not so much, 3rd PN, 8th Vasco, 1st Castila y Leon, 2nd Romandie, 3rd Giro, 4th TdF, 1st Denmark, 6th Worlds. Clearly his role isn't the same at Sky, or if the role is the same, it shows how badly Saxo screwed up, rather than that Porte must be doping.

    Didn't Porte gain a lot of time in the Giro though one stage when there was a massive split in the peloton
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  • Arb

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #236 on: July 12, 2012, 03:52 »
    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/wiggins-im-not-some-s-t-rider-who-has-come-from-nowhere

    I'm not saying whether he is or isn't, but that is NOT the defense to be using at this point.

    I think people have to realise what kind of engine you need to win an Olympic gold medal as an Olympic pursuiter.

    How scary is it going to be when all the guys who have done sub 4:15-4:16 in the last few years turn to the road?

    I predict the 2016 Tour GC to be something like 1. Phinney 2. Hepburn 3. Sergent 4. Bobridge 5. Thomas 6. Dennis
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  • ram

    Re: Sky
    « Reply #237 on: July 12, 2012, 11:28 »
  • ReplyReply

  • L'arri

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #238 on: July 12, 2012, 11:31 »
    Paul Kimmage and Shane Stokes talk and this was what came out of that:

    http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/12357/Kimmage-disappointed-in-Wiggins-and-Team-Sky-over-transparency.aspx








     ;D
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  • Cycling is a Europe thing only and I only watch from Omloop on cause I am cool and sh*t
    RIP Craig1985 / Craig Walsh
    RIP KeithJamesMc / Keith McMahon / Larry Sarni

    benotti69

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    Re: Sky
    « Reply #239 on: July 12, 2012, 12:18 »
    Shane Stokes has been blocked by Wiggins on Twitter.
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