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AG

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Re: Hidden Motors
« Reply #420 on: October 16, 2016, 01:06 »
when I saw the hidden motors thread come up today I thought for sure it was about Olga Zabelinskya   :lol
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  • hiero

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    Re: Hidden Motors
    « Reply #421 on: October 17, 2016, 12:11 »
    It's CyclingWeekly. They'll write anything:P

    Having watched the video, I think that's completely normal. If I put down my bike (which most definitely does not have a motor!) like that, the back wheel will begin to spin a bit. I don't know why exactly, but ... physics. :zzz1

    Are you sure!? I mean, you really expect us to believe that when you didn't get it heat-scanned? Come on, man!    :lol   :cool
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  • Ubi est ignis

    Drummer Boy

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    Re: Hidden Motors
    « Reply #422 on: January 30, 2017, 04:41 »
    Here's the 60 Minutes report:
    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/60-minutes-investigates-hidden-motors-and-pro-cycling/

    For now, it should be available for viewing, plus extra footage and a full transcript. My real-time comments were provided in the main shout box.

    As expected, nothing of certainty is brought to light. Just more innuendo, supposition and suspicion. Not sure what the producers at 60 Minutes were hoping to accomplish, other than further humiliating cycling to a general public that has little interest in the sport to begin with.

    Fingers pointed squarely at Lance and Team Sky, but with no solid evidence of anything, really.
    Ryder and Fabian get a nice little nod at the outset.  :D

    Varjas is aptly described as "cagey." He hardly comes across with much conviction. And I can't believe they even included the laughably weak video footage of a supposed mechanical wheel. The whole piece is, sadly, pretty much exactly what I had anticipated.
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  • Drummer Boy

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    Re: Hidden Motors
    « Reply #423 on: January 30, 2017, 05:03 »
    A few notable items:

    Quote
    Jean-Pierre Verdy is the former testing director for the French Anti-Doping Agency who investigated doping in the Tour de France for 20 years.

    Bill Whitaker: Have there been motors used in the Tour de France?

    Jean-Pierre Verdy: Yes, of course. It’s been the last three to four years when I was told about the use of the motors. And in 2014, they told me there are motors. And they told me, there’s a problem. By 2015, everyone was complaining and I said, something’s got to be done.

    Verdy said he’s been disturbed by how fast some riders are going up the mountains. As a doping investigator, he relied for years on informants among the team managers and racers in the peloton, the word for the pack of riders. These people told Jean-Pierre Verdy that about 12 racers used motors in the 2015 Tour de France.
     :-x

    Quote
    In order to demonstrate the motors existed as far back as 1998, Stefano Varjas suggested to us that we find a carbon fiber 1999 U.S. Postal Service team bike, the same bike the U.S. Postal team used in the 1999 Tour de France. We bought this bike off the Internet and he installed a motor based on his first design into the bike.  He charged us $12,000, saying that covered his costs for the parts and labor.
     :lol

    Quote
    Stefano said he told the French police that just before the 2015 Tour de France he again sold motorized bikes to an unknown client through a middleman. He said he was directed to deliver the bikes to a locked storage room in the town of Beaulieu Sur Mer, France. 

    Stefano Varjas told us that in addition to the motors in the bike frames, he’s designed a motor that can be hidden inside the hub of the back wheel seen here in a video he gave us.

    According to Varjas the enhanced wheels weigh about 800 grams—or 1.7 pounds more than normal wheels.

    In the 2015 Tour de France, bikes in the peloton were weighed before one of the time trial stages.  French authorities told us the British Team Sky was the only team with bikes heavier than the rest—each bike weighed about 800 grams more.
     
    :shh

    A spokesman for Team Sky said that during a time trial stage bikes might be heavier to allow for better aerodynamic performance. He said the team has never used mechanical assistance and that the bikes were checked and cleared by the sports governing body.

    As I said previously though, it's all lacking in any substantial proof of anything. This didn't amount to nearly the dramatic report that Varjas has been hinting at for a few months now.
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  • Flo

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    Re: Hidden Motors
    « Reply #424 on: January 30, 2017, 08:40 »
    So everyone and their dog knows it's being used and even exactly how many in which race - but still no names? :o
    My guess Sky used motors for that TTT in 2015 - but not poor old Nico Roche :D
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    Carlo Algatrensig

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    Re: Hidden Motors
    « Reply #425 on: January 30, 2017, 09:25 »
    One thing that might have been advatageous was if they had tried to retro fit the original motor design to other pro bikes from the late 90's. Showing it fits into the Trek is one thing. Showing that it does or doesn't fit into other bikes would help show which other manufacturers equipment it could have been used on back then.
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  • pastronef

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    Re: Hidden Motors
    « Reply #426 on: January 30, 2017, 11:55 »
    So everyone and their dog knows it's being used and even exactly how many in which race - but still no names? :o
    My guess Sky used motors for that TTT in 2015 - but not poor old Nico Roche :D

    and they still lost the TT to BMC with Movistar a close 3rd at 3 seconds.
    Froome was 39th in the prologue at 50 seconds
    those wheels are slow!  :lol  :P
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  • Joelsim

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    Re: Hidden Motors
    « Reply #427 on: January 30, 2017, 12:35 »
    And all Sky bikes were subject to an unannounced test on that day.
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  • Flo

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    Re: Hidden Motors
    « Reply #428 on: January 30, 2017, 18:02 »
    And all Sky bikes were subject to an unannounced test on that day.
    The test can only find motors hidden in the frame, not magnetic wheels.
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  • t-72

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    Re: Hidden Motors
    « Reply #429 on: January 30, 2017, 20:35 »
    I have read a few tweets and some forum posts here and there. conclusion is the same as it used to be: good marketing for Varjas and no facts supplied? I don't think he is a credible source, but even liars can pass elements of truth when they plan not to.
    There is some talk about a company in Beaulieu-sur-Mer which is Nice by any other name (midway to Col d'Eze but down by the sea). My impression is that about 1/3 of the WT peloton lives within an hours bike ride from there. He supplied a bike there, supposedly? Did he say which brand? If not, good job to get CBS to expose his skills on prime television like that. Costs millions for others to get such TV-AD time?

    PS: Does he suppply the motors for the Cippolini bikes that are fitted with motors?
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  • riding too slowly

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    Re: Hidden Motors
    « Reply #430 on: January 30, 2017, 22:43 »
    And all Sky bikes were subject to an unannounced test on that day.

    And who wrote the test protocol - none other than the UCI's very own Barfield.  No I don't think we can draw too much out of that but there was a serious lack of evidence in that program.  If Varjas wants to be credible he needs to make it public who paid him the $2 million.  That would get everyone taking notice.

    I put my neck out a long time ago that this had legs and started many years ago, but right now we are not close to exposing it. 

    Was that 60 minutes best shot or are they holding back for another program and needing to get a few more ducks into line ?

    Two things leave me unchanged in my viewpoint - Greg was/is sticking to his guns - motors have been used and there seems plenty of motives for him to not stand in line on this one, but he is and then all that stuff about mechanics sleeping with bikes and riders taking bikes to their rooms.  Riders never take bikes to their rooms they are sick to death of the sight of them without tripping over them getting them into and out of the lift and when coming out of the shower.  That just does not add up.

    In 2013 I was convinced Froome bought the Ventoux stage from Quintana.  I know what I saw was not credible.  But the origins of it ?  Even though at that time skeptics like myself knew the rumours about Spartacus and motors, I certainly did not think Sky would go for motors, right now I am waivering.  How to explain the ridiculousness of what we all saw. 

    To the believers - I wish I was with you.
    I think plain old cash is still the easiest explanation and Sky have more than anyone else
    However, I would not take much more convincing to believe that I was wrong and mechanical doping was used. 

    I had hoped 60 minutes would give us much more.
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  • Joelsim

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    Re: Hidden Motors
    « Reply #431 on: January 30, 2017, 22:47 »
    It really wouldn't surprise me if they'd been used.

    I struggle to believe with all the checks that anyone would've been stupid enough to use them over the past few years and to suggest a whole team is using them is crazy, someone would spill the beans.
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  • riding too slowly

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    Re: Hidden Motors
    « Reply #432 on: January 30, 2017, 22:55 »
    I have no confidence the test is worthwhile given the fact that the UCI are doing it at the Tour.  They have no interest whatsoever in finding motors, look at how hard they had to be shoved to find the evil U23 moto-girls bike.  Just imagine finding a bike in the bosses ex team with a motor - the winners team - double whammy, let's bring the whole sport down and flush it through the U-bend shall we.  No-one from the UCI would ever do that if they tested from now until doomsday.  Again Greg and Cathy were calling out the test protocol at the time.  That rings genuine.
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  • LukasCPH

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    Re: Hidden Motors
    « Reply #433 on: January 31, 2017, 12:13 »
    One thing that might have been advatageous was if they had tried to retro fit the original motor design to other pro bikes from the late 90's. Showing it fits into the Trek is one thing. Showing that it does or doesn't fit into other bikes would help show which other manufacturers equipment it could have been used on back then.
    Exactly. He could possibly have retro-fitted his motor into a bike Merckx or Coppi used (maybe not).
    Is that proof that the stars of old used motors? :lol

    In my opinion, Varjas is a snakeoil salesman, and he sells it enormously well. But if he told me my bike had two wheels, I'd check a few extra times before going on a ride.
    As a source, he's about as untrustworthy as they come.
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    Kiwirider

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    Re: Hidden Motors
    « Reply #434 on: January 31, 2017, 15:04 »
    I struggle to believe with all the checks that anyone would've been stupid enough to use them over the past few years and to suggest a whole team is using them is crazy, someone would spill the beans.

    Of course, who would take risks like that.

    I mean, with all of the drug testing that there is, no rider in their right mind would take PEDs. No-one is doping now, right?

    And it has always been impossible to keep team wide cheating protocols hidden - I mean, look how the whole USPS/Discovery empire only managed to keep their doping regimes hidden for well over a decade.

    Oh wait ... that's the argument for the counter position ...
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  • Ram

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    Re: Hidden Motors
    « Reply #435 on: February 01, 2017, 07:04 »
    If drugs turned the blood green, there'd be little doping. That's how tough it is to find motors, things hidden in frames don't make it invisible.
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  • pastronef

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    Re: Hidden Motors
    « Reply #436 on: February 01, 2017, 07:51 »
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  • jimmythecuckoo

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    Re: Hidden Motors
    « Reply #437 on: February 07, 2017, 10:31 »
    Wout Van Aert under scrutiny again


    http://cycling.today/new-video-raises-fresh-concerns-about-mechanical-doping/



    It looks none too good for Wout on that evidence, but of course that isn't contextual.

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  • LukasCPH

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    Re: Hidden Motors
    « Reply #438 on: February 07, 2017, 10:36 »
    Wout Van Aert under scrutiny again


    http://cycling.today/new-video-raises-fresh-concerns-about-mechanical-doping/



    It looks none too good for Wout on that evidence, but of course that isn't contextual.
    An article that can't be bothered to spell "Krawatencross" correctly is of no value whatsoever if a case would ever come of this. :S

    As for the actual video:
    His backwheel skids in the mud. Like the commentator says. Nothing to see here. :serious
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  • jimmythecuckoo

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    Re: Hidden Motors
    « Reply #439 on: February 07, 2017, 10:38 »
    You dont think a couple of those clips see it moving a little un-naturally?

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  • just some guy

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    Re: Hidden Motors
    « Reply #440 on: February 07, 2017, 12:33 »
    the power certainly doesn´t come off even when not peddling
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  • Of course, if this turns out someday to be the industry standard integrated handlebar-computer-braking solution then I'll eat my kevlar-reinforced aerodynamic hat.

    Larri Nov 12, 2014

    Echoes

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    Re: Hidden Motors
    « Reply #441 on: February 08, 2017, 09:05 »


    One comment below:

    Quote
    Clemens s.yesterday
    1st situation: he is with his left feet in the pedal -> no problem that the wheel spins a bit when he puts his leg a bit down.
    2nd situation: pedal hangs in the mud, so perfectly normal
    3rd situation: when you know what driving in the mud is, you perfectly understand this: he just has no grip, so his wheel spins fast without moving forward.
    4rd situation: he just slips away (again no grip so wheel accelerates)
    Nothing is wrong with this [sic] 4 situations...

    It stands to reason, I think. It's the reason why of all time we've always seen cyclocrossers with their bike on the shoulder and their wheels still spinning on their own. :fp
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  • "Paris-Roubaix is the biggest cycling race in the world, bigger than the Tour de France, bigger than any other bike race" (Sir Bradley Wiggins)

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    Re: Hidden Motors
    « Reply #442 on: February 08, 2017, 09:17 »
    it does look unusual to me, to be honest. But I know nothing about cyclocross
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    jimmythecuckoo

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    Re: Hidden Motors
    « Reply #443 on: February 08, 2017, 10:56 »
    the power certainly doesn´t come off even when not peddling

    The one where the bike almost rips itself out of his hands is the one I am finding most compelling.

    I have no axe to grind with Wout van Aert, in fact I love watching him ride. But this does look odd.

    He might just have really brilliant ceramic bearings in those hubs that keep rolling, of course.
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