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L'arri

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Re: Hidden Motors
« Reply #90 on: April 30, 2015, 06:10 »
[Edit]
OK, for amusement purposes only, I just went back and read some more of those comments. Problem is, there's nothing amusing. The lack of sense of humor, and the painfully dry nature of most of those responses brings me back to the days of the active Velonews comments sections. American cyclists are very, very serious.   

:wut :fp :fp :fp

That's our Drummer Boy: a guy from just about anywhere else trapped in an American's body...  :lol:hug
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  • Cycling is a Europe thing only and I only watch from Omloop on cause I am cool and sh*t
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    just some guy

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    Re: Hidden Motors
    « Reply #91 on: April 30, 2015, 07:12 »
    Why not make them a 4 year ban directly.

    You had a motor, 4 years, bang

    only way out if it was not your bike,

    Make it serious to stop people
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  • Of course, if this turns out someday to be the industry standard integrated handlebar-computer-braking solution then I'll eat my kevlar-reinforced aerodynamic hat.

    Larri Nov 12, 2014

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    Re: Hidden Motors
    « Reply #92 on: April 30, 2015, 07:44 »
    Why not make them a 4 year ban directly.

    You had a motor, 4 years, bang

    only way out if it was not your bike,

    Make it serious to stop people

    For riders I think 4 years or 2 years or whatever is a fine penalty. Where I see the diference is that team staff will by definition know, as the mechanics take care of the bikes, as such I feel it should be viewed as organised doping by the team, and the team ought to be closed down with bans to the staff a result of it as well.
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  • neppe

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    Re: Hidden Motors
    « Reply #93 on: April 30, 2015, 10:13 »
    Quote
    Propulsion
    1.3.010
    The bicycle shall be propelled solely, through a chainset, by the legs (inferior muscular chain) moving
    in a circular movement, without electric or other assistance.

    (text modified on 1.01.05; 1.10.13

    Quote
    Technological fraud
    12.1.013 bis
    Technological fraud is an infringement to article 1.3.010.

    Technological fraud is materialised by:
    * The presence,  within  or  on  the  margins  of  a  cycling  competition,  of  a  bicycle  that
    does not comply with the provisions of article 1.3.010.

    * The  use  by  a  rider,  within  or  on  the  margins  of  a  cycling  competition,  of  a  bicycle
    that does not comply with the provisions of article 1.3.010.

    All  teams  must  ensure  that  all  their  bicycles  are  in  compliance  with  the  provisions  of
    article 1.3.010. Any presence of a bicycle that does not comply  with the provisions of
    article  1.3.010,  within  or  on  the  margins  of  a  cycling  competition,
    constitutes  a technological fraud by the team and the rider.
    All  riders  must  ensure  that  any bicycle that they use is  in compliance  with  the provisions of article 1.3.010.
    Any use by a rider of a bicycle that does not comply with the  provisions  of  article  1.3.010,
    within  or  on  the  margins of  a  cycling  competition, constitutes a technological fraud by the team and the rider.

    Any technological fraud shall be sanctioned as follows:
    1.
    Rider:  disqualification, suspension  of  a  minimum  of  six  months  and  a  fine  of between CHF 20'000 and CHF 200’000.
    2.
    Team:  disqualification,  suspension  of  a  minimum  of  six  months  and  a  fine  of between CHF 100'000 and CHF 1’000’000.

    (article introduced on 30.01.15)

    A minimum suspension of six months for a team is a strong deterrent. If UCI finds something in any of the teams bikes at a race the sponsor doesn't get his logo exposed at races for a minimum of six months. Imagine if there was a simular rule for doping products introduced some decades ago.
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  • Drummer Boy

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    Re: Hidden Motors
    « Reply #94 on: April 30, 2015, 23:00 »
    More hysteria, and people who can't read so good.  :-x
    .
    (Lukas providing the voice of reason) :win

    https://twitter.com/philgaimon/status/593879413982298112

    It is interesting to see how many people support a lifetime ban for such things though. It's too late to draw a line in the sand for doping but I think the UCI needs to do just that in regards to motorized infractions. Nobody has even been caught doing it in the past, so they really need to set a precedent moving forward. Zero tolerance. No ambiguity, and they could avoid many of the accusations of hypocrisy that are so easily thrown about (and often rightly so) in regards to PEDs, etc.

    If anyone really ever was busted for this, the reaction of the peloton would be most interesting to observe. Would they allow someone "back in" after such a thing? I'm curious to see if any journos have asked any riders about what their reaction might be in the face of such a thing. It would be good to have it on record before it possibly becomes a reality.

    Although I imagine that most riders would simply scoff with indignation at the very idea and not even offer much of a serious answer. Perhaps Phil Gaimon's tweet will stimulate more of that conversation amongst his peers.
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  • Drummer Boy

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    Re: Hidden Motors
    « Reply #95 on: April 30, 2015, 23:29 »
    As I think more about this (c'mon, it's fun...it's fun!  :lol)


    What might/should happen if a motor were found, not within a specific rider's bike, but, in the possession of a team in some other way?

    For example:

    What if a motor, or obvious components of such a motor, were found on a team truck, or car?

    What if a motor was found within an otherwise naked frame, with nothing to associate that frame with a specific team member?

    Who would be held responsible, and what punishment should be doled out?

    For an even murkier scenario: What if—like transfusion equipment being found in the trash—a motor was found in the parking lot after a race that maybe was dumped in a hurry to avoid being caught?  :o  :P

    How fun would that be for us?!  :cool

     :D  :D  :D  :D  :D


    These are serious questions though. I really do wonder.  :nerd:
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  • Joelsim

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    Re: Hidden Motors
    « Reply #96 on: April 30, 2015, 23:32 »
    I'd just ban Chris Horner
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  • LukasCPH

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    Re: Hidden Motors
    « Reply #97 on: May 03, 2015, 15:36 »
    (Lukas providing the voice of reason) :win
    Dude, that's so last month. :lol

    More hysteria, and people who can't read so good.  :-x
    What I will never understand is why people who have no informed opinion on a matter nevertheless choose to speak out on it. Or, in words they can understand: If you don't have a clue, shut the flip up! :P
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    Drummer Boy

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    Re: Hidden Motors
    « Reply #98 on: May 03, 2015, 15:43 »
    More proof that the internet makes people dumb.

    https://twitter.com/daniellloyd1/status/594597623295823872


    Better question:
    Why would a "Presenter at GCN, commentator, coach, ex professional cyclist" have such poor reading comprehension?
    :slow


    Thankfully...
    https://twitter.com/TheRaceRadio/status/594636934917545984

    https://twitter.com/TheRaceRadio/status/594637416755044353
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  • LukasCPH

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    Re: Hidden Motors
    « Reply #99 on: May 03, 2015, 17:31 »
    Better question:
    Why would a "Presenter at GCN, commentator, coach, ex professional cyclist" have such poor reading comprehension?
    :slow
    He doesn't.

    He simply never read the document in question. Nothing wrong with that - I never read the CIRC report. But I don't get all wise-ass about the issues touched upon in that one.


    At the danger of repeating myself: If you don't have a clue, shut the flip up! :)
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  • Drummer Boy

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    Re: Hidden Motors
    « Reply #100 on: May 30, 2015, 01:20 »
    I haven't even read this article yet, but the headline is too precious to pass up.   :D

    LeMond: The UCI should use a heat gun to detect motors

    I just read it.  :o

    Quote
    LeMond is convinced that motors have been used in the peloton and that a heat gun and banning bike changes could be a simple but effective deterrents.
    Quote
    “I know that motors exist, I’ve ridden a bike with one and I’ve met the inventor and talked about it. If people think they don’t exist, they’re fooling themselves, so I think it’s a justified suspicion. I believe it’s also been used in the peloton. It seems too incredible that someone would do it, but I know it’s real,” he said.
    Quote
    “It’s simple to check for, much easier than doping, but not by looking down the tube. You need a thermal heat gun, you can use it in the race. It can see from metres away if there a difference in the heat in the bottom bracket.   :S

    I’d recommend that to the UCI.”

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  • just some guy

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    Re: Hidden Motors
    « Reply #101 on: June 01, 2015, 10:46 »
    not sure what it is about LeMond but the return of Greg into the public eye does my nut in, maybe it was the pre race show last years Tour

    Thank goddess for the Arrow at the Giro I guess

    But I am pretty sure motors are being used FWIW
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  • AG

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    Re: Hidden Motors
    « Reply #102 on: June 01, 2015, 11:06 »
    yeah I dont know what it is, but Greg LeMond really doesnt do it for me.


    Love JAF though  :cool :cool :cool
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  • AG

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    Re: Hidden Motors
    « Reply #103 on: June 01, 2015, 11:10 »
    as for Hidden Motors - I would be incredibly surprised if they werent.

    Where you get the kid of rewards on offer for success ... and the chances of being caught pretty low, of course you are going to get some who are desperate enough to give it a go.


    as far as all the idiots who say 'oh they shoudl just weight the bikes' .. :fp     The bikes already weigh significantly less than minimum weight.  They add heavier stuff to get up to weight ... a motor would be perfect for that  ;)
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  • t-72

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    Re: Hidden Motors
    « Reply #104 on: June 01, 2015, 20:05 »

    as for Hidden Motors - I would be incredibly surprised if they werent.


    It is not that uncommon these days to see bikes with visible motors, so I don't see how that should be that surprising, although it would be a bit surprising too see one of them in a normal bike race context.
     :)


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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  • Drummer Boy

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    Re: Hidden Motors
    « Reply #105 on: June 01, 2015, 22:06 »
    it would be a bit surprising too see one of them in a normal bike race context.

    That would never happen... :shh




    Needless to say, I'm counting on you Dutchies to sort this out for me.  :)


    Thanks to "sniper" via The Clinic
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    Re: Hidden Motors
    « Reply #106 on: June 01, 2015, 22:18 »
    That would never happen... :shh

    well, he says he could easily have won that race, if he wanted to. So there didn't seem to be anyone else in there with a motor.
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  • "If this is cycling, I am a banana"

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    Re: Hidden Motors
    « Reply #107 on: June 03, 2015, 14:28 »
    Ferrari speaks again, says a motor could be hidden in the spokes ( :o ?!)

    Quote
    ELECTRIC BIKES

     - Ten years after the first "infiltrations" within the peloton, the UCI eventually and belatedly defined the penalties for this technological "doping".

    So we started seeing the first wave of organized controls, even though a bit pre-announced and rough, sort of like a warning that "the party is over": my impression is that the UCI would not be able to hold this scandal at bay and it is doing its utmost to prevent and avoid serious investigations on the past.

    I wonder if the inspectors checked, as well as frames, lenticular wheels and spokes, ideal structures where small motors can be hidden in the hubs...

    http://www.53x12.com/do/show?page=indepth.view&id=158

    edit: or is he talking about the wiring or something?
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  • Claudio Cappuccino

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    Re: Hidden Motors
    « Reply #108 on: June 03, 2015, 16:05 »
    How about riders doing the first 175K on a moterized bike, then schwalbe a puncture followed by a neccessary bikechange and do the next 50 K or so on their regular bike? That will save energy I think.

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    Re: Hidden Motors
    « Reply #109 on: June 03, 2015, 17:12 »
    yeah, was it the secret pro talking about mechanics on the road side with bikes ready to swap (and not from the team car)?! Would make sense then, and easy to disappear into nowhere with the motorized bike.
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  • Drummer Boy

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    Re: Hidden Motors
    « Reply #110 on: June 04, 2015, 00:46 »
    yeah, was it the secret pro talking about mechanics on the road side with bikes ready to swap (and not from the team car)?! Would make sense then, and easy to disappear into nowhere with the motorized bike.

    That would never happen either


    I've mentioned this before, but there used to be a much clearer video of that exact exchange, but from a different angle.  The perspective was right alongside the handoff, just before Fabs jumped off his bike.

    When viewed from that other angle, and with the clarity provided by the footage, the choreography of it all was seamless, sublime, and might impressive in-and-of-itself. Any Elite CXer would've been proud.
    But the video was quickly scrubbed from the internet shortly thereafter. :slow
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  • Flo

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    Re: Hidden Motors
    « Reply #113 on: June 04, 2015, 15:18 »
    Yep so after Cancellara and Hesjedal it's now Berto's turn. Stupid Frog journo.
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    Re: Hidden Motors
    « Reply #114 on: June 04, 2015, 15:21 »
    the thing is, we are back to where it all started, same team, same staff (?)
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  • Joelsim

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    Re: Hidden Motors
    « Reply #115 on: June 04, 2015, 15:24 »
    So, what we've ascertained is that Berto has been using Fabu's 2nd bike?

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    Re: Hidden Motors
    « Reply #116 on: June 04, 2015, 15:35 »
    well, as someone on cn pointed out a while ago, the ~2008-2010 time frame is when plenty of the CSC riders had the best years of their career, not only Cancellara, even more so guys like Larsson, Breschel or Chis Anker Sörsensen - and also the Schleck brothers. Whether this is down to a motorized bike, or a different form of support, I don't know, but it's possible I think, and I guess so do the testers and the press.

    Now we have the same team, spiced up with Tinkoff, who will do everything for success. So I can see every reason to have a closer look at them.
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  • AG

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    Re: Hidden Motors
    « Reply #117 on: June 05, 2015, 01:19 »
    while I do think its likely that there is (or will be) hidden motors ...

    I am definitely not willing to suggest that someone like Contador - at the very top of the pile - is doing that. 


    If I were to think about who might be likely, it would to my mind be more like a Mikel Landa, Raf Majka, or Hesjedal kind of rider ... (not suggesting them in any way, but showing an example of the kind of riders I mean ... who have had one or two stellar seasons/rides whether in amongst other less amazing seasons or new to the scene).   

    Not someone talentless - you need $ to fit these things so you need to be reasonably established - but someone who has achieved more than they otherwise would have.

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  • just some guy

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    Re: Hidden Motors
    « Reply #118 on: June 05, 2015, 06:51 »
    while I do think its likely that there is (or will be) hidden motors ...

    I am definitely not willing to suggest that someone like Contador - at the very top of the pile - is doing that. 


    If I were to think about who might be likely, it would to my mind be more like a Mikel Landa, Raf Majka, or Hesjedal kind of rider ... (not suggesting them in any way, but showing an example of the kind of riders I mean ... who have had one or two stellar seasons/rides whether in amongst other less amazing seasons or new to the scene).   

    Not someone talentless - you need $ to fit these things so you need to be reasonably established - but someone who has achieved more than they otherwise would have.

    Just like doping why would the best use it?

    if anyone is using it is the best riders

    This is just mechanical doping, Freibos recons there is nothing to it as I said on twitter

    when was the last time a smoke signal didn't become a blazing inferno ?

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  • Flo

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    Re: Hidden Motors
    « Reply #119 on: June 05, 2015, 07:10 »
    when was the last time a smoke signal didn't become a blazing inferno ?
    With Fabian and Ryder.

    This entire story, comes from 1 journalist. One. One journalist who keeps insinuating Contador has a motor in his bike - even in the main l'équipe article about the Giro. There is nothing more to it. This guy also started the Pantani was murdered story fwiw.
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