collapse


LukasCPH

  • World Champion
  • *
  • Country: de
  • Posts: 10257
  • Liked: 6166
    • lukascph.media
  • Awards: Staff of the year 2016Staff of the year 2015Velorooms Tour de France BINGO champion 2014National Championships Predictions Game Winner 2014Velorooms Monday Quiz ChampionPoster of the Year 2013
Re: World Championships 2017
« Reply #180 on: September 26, 2017, 21:28 »
Yes he (or PR's behind him) knows how to maintain his own media image and popularity.
Is there something he could do that could win you over?
Or have you made up your mind on him and won't be swayed by anything?
  • ReplyReply
  • 2017 0711|CYCLING PR Manager; 2016 Stölting Content Editor
    Views presented are my own.
    RIP Keith

    t-72

    • National Champion
    • Country: no
    • Posts: 976
    • Liked: 1526
    Re: World Championships 2017
    « Reply #181 on: September 26, 2017, 21:40 »
    ....
    But tell us if Bergen has a donation site - I'll give $10 to help out. It was worth more, but I can't afford more! GREAT Worlds.

    Careful what you wish for, you might have started something there, Hiero!

    Quote from:  Bergen2017 (on facebook)
    Vi har fått mange henvendelser om folk som ønsker å bidra, og det synes vi er veldig hyggelig! Vår Vipps konto er #122843 Bergen 2017
    Kontonummer: 15035624381

    There has been a spontaneous response after the news on the bad economy broke, and people started donating. However, so far I haven't seen any way to make a donation from outside Norway (these systems are national). The donation drive started this morning and reportedly (latest update I could find) it just passed 1.8 million norwegian kroner (NOK). It may not cover all the expenses but I am sure it will help. now if they only could open for Hiero too... :)

    For those that can read Norwegian, this is pretty unprecedented:
    Report on the spontaneous donations in local newspaper BT
  • ReplyReply

  • LukasCPH

    • World Champion
    • *
    • Country: de
    • Posts: 10257
    • Liked: 6166
      • lukascph.media
    • Awards: Staff of the year 2016Staff of the year 2015Velorooms Tour de France BINGO champion 2014National Championships Predictions Game Winner 2014Velorooms Monday Quiz ChampionPoster of the Year 2013
    Re: World Championships 2017
    « Reply #182 on: September 26, 2017, 21:58 »
    There has been a spontaneous response after the news on the bad economy broke, and people started donating. However, so far I haven't seen any way to make a donation from outside Norway (these systems are national). The donation drive started this morning and reportedly (latest update I could find) it just passed 1.8 million norwegian kroner (NOK). It may not cover all the expenses but I am sure it will help. now if they only could open for Hiero too... :)
    Surely if they have a bank account number, they have an IBAN & BIC as well?
  • ReplyReply

  • hiero

    • Road Captain
    • Country: us
    • Posts: 1162
    • Liked: 864
    Re: World Championships 2017
    « Reply #183 on: September 27, 2017, 04:05 »
    Ran into this youtube vid tonight - the last 4 km vid with Sagan picked out in detail. Lovely! I was thinking we needed to see something like this - I could not figure out who the players were, for the most part. And I couldn't even find Sagan most of the time in that vid. This guy adds a pointer to Sagan through the action - and I have to realize Sagan was moving a lot in the final 4 km. He didn't just hide until the very end - he was in the action. Still he was surfing wheels - but at least it was not just one wheel!

  • ReplyReply
  • Eeyore sez . . .

    LukasCPH

    • World Champion
    • *
    • Country: de
    • Posts: 10257
    • Liked: 6166
      • lukascph.media
    • Awards: Staff of the year 2016Staff of the year 2015Velorooms Tour de France BINGO champion 2014National Championships Predictions Game Winner 2014Velorooms Monday Quiz ChampionPoster of the Year 2013
    Re: World Championships 2017
    « Reply #184 on: September 27, 2017, 08:35 »
    Ran into this youtube vid tonight - the last 4 km vid with Sagan picked out in detail. Lovely!
    I love 'replays' like this. After a sprint finish, I could watch them for hours, analysing what each rider did right and wrong.
    In this run-in, Sagan did a lot of things right: Follow & chase by others, but not make moves himself; not chase down every move; getting into the wheel of Kristoff[1] with 500 m to go; doing the classic "out of his slipstream" sprint.
    :cool
     1. someone who becomes better and better the longer a race is
  • ReplyReply

  • Echoes

    • Road Captain
    • Country: be
    • Posts: 1246
    • Liked: 1302
    Re: World Championships 2017
    « Reply #185 on: September 27, 2017, 08:39 »
    In other words, an experienced wheelsucker.
  • ReplyReply
  • "Paris-Roubaix is the biggest cycling race in the world, bigger than the Tour de France, bigger than any other bike race" (Sir Bradley Wiggins)

    LukasCPH

    • World Champion
    • *
    • Country: de
    • Posts: 10257
    • Liked: 6166
      • lukascph.media
    • Awards: Staff of the year 2016Staff of the year 2015Velorooms Tour de France BINGO champion 2014National Championships Predictions Game Winner 2014Velorooms Monday Quiz ChampionPoster of the Year 2013
    Re: World Championships 2017
    « Reply #186 on: September 27, 2017, 09:04 »
    In other words, an experienced wheelsucker.
    What would you want him to have done, then? Put all the power he had left into one big move with 3 km to go, because "it looks better"?
    And what are the >20 guys in that group that didn't attack either?

    Attacking all-out may look glorious, but it's not always the smartest thing to do. Sagan raced smart, maximising his chances of success. If he always waited for the sprint, that would be one thing - but there are numerous examples of him going solo even when he's arguably the best sprinter left (Gent-Wevelgem 2013, Richmond Worlds 2015).
    Is that "flaunting his strength" and "showing off", or what?

    More and more I have the feeling that Sagan can do no right in your eyes.
    And that's fine, you're more than entitled to that opinion.
    But it's enormously tiring to hear a dozen versions of it every time Sagan shows up in a bike race.
  • ReplyReply

  • Echoes

    • Road Captain
    • Country: be
    • Posts: 1246
    • Liked: 1302
    Re: World Championships 2017
    « Reply #187 on: September 27, 2017, 10:02 »
    For his fans, it's just the other way round. When he attacks, it's panache so it's great. When he wins in a sprint, it's great because he's smart. When Cavendish or Kittel wins in sprint, it's never smart. When Van Avermaet wins after a long breakaway like in Rio, it's never panache because he's the hated rival.

    My opinion has changed on many riders who've matured up: Niels Albert, Laurent Jalabert (though changed back due to dark side). My posting history on CN might show I was critical of Albert in his early days and enthusiastic in his later years. Sagan has NOT matured up. It's wild to think otherwise. He now bodychecks riders to the ditches, which he didn't do before. Like Caruut I also was some sort of an admirer before and no longer now. My posting history has also left traces of that. Even perhaps here.
  • ReplyReply

  • Capt_Cavman

    • Road Captain
    • Country: jp
    • Posts: 1829
    • Liked: 1118
    Re: World Championships 2017
    « Reply #188 on: September 27, 2017, 11:10 »
    ...

    Attacking all-out may look glorious, but it's not always the smartest thing to do. Sagan raced smart, maximising his chances of success. If he always waited for the sprint, that would be one thing - but there are numerous examples of him going solo even when he's arguably the best sprinter left (Gent-Wevelgem 2013, Richmond Worlds 2015).
    Is that "flaunting his strength" and "showing off", or what?...

    Absolutely, he showed that in the clip above where he was prepared to close down moves or get into them to see where they went. This is not what I call wheel sucking, it's highly intelligent, heat of the moment, tactical riding. He didn't just wait for the race to come his way, he made it come his way.

    And I'm not his biggest fan, I still hold him responsible for deliberately forcing Cavendish into the barriers and out of the TdF but credit where it's due, he rode this perfectly.
  • ReplyReply

  • Echoes

    • Road Captain
    • Country: be
    • Posts: 1246
    • Liked: 1302
    Re: World Championships 2017
    « Reply #189 on: September 27, 2017, 11:17 »
    Jesus, on that clip, you can clearly see that once he was in the lead of the peloton he let the other take the turn in an instant. he did nothing to chase down Alaphilippe (the true winner for me).

    Greg Van Avermaet said that the only time of the day he got passed by Sagan is with 4km to go. Philippe Gilbert said it was with 2.5km to go. He hadn't seen him for the whole day (source: Le Soir last Monday).
  • ReplyReply

  • t-72

    • National Champion
    • Country: no
    • Posts: 976
    • Liked: 1526
    Re: World Championships 2017
    « Reply #190 on: September 27, 2017, 21:45 »
    But it's enormously tiring to hear a dozen versions of it every time Sagan shows up in a bike race.

    I kind of find it balances my view that Froome gets all the hate on online cycling forums. I appreciate other winners getting their share too. Strange kind of justice, but justice anyway.

    Sagan said something in an interview afterwards which you maybe did not hear (it might have been for Norwegian ears only on TV2 but I am not 100% sure). The reporter said Sagan had stayed hidden for a long time. Sagan filled in "oh yes, I can do that only one time all year and that is this race, the worlds, where I race without the rainbow jersey." I tend to agree, I had a hard time picking him out from the peloton ...yea, he should have been in there somewhere but... I think he played his low profile card excellently, staying out of everybodys attention by not competing in the TTT and not training in Bergen before the race before hiding somewhere in the peloton for 250 km.

    He is usually blamed for having poor tactics and too much strength for his own good. This time he won by having tactics and superior skills in bike-throwing. To continue the comparison with Froome, both keep winning although it can be questioned if their advantage in terms of physical ability is a little reduced compared to previous years, because they are adding new skills to their repertoire.

    One more comment on the tactics, this year the spring tactics was dominated by long and ultra-long range attacks that made the race, with Philippe Gilbert's Ronde van Vlaanderen win as the climax. This trend evolved because teams without the strongest sprinters had to do something before the finish or Sagan, Kristoff and Degenkolb would take the race in the finish. What happened here Sunday: they did not make the race hard enough early enough to put Gilbert/van Avermaet in the advantage. Or the strong finishers were just to determined to hang on. Norwegian coaches said heart rate measurements indicated the world championship road race was actually raced harder than the spring classics this year.
    One thing though, the race was won in a sprint but with the intense attacks on the final kilometres it wasn't raced like a sprint stage, more like the P-R with civilized cobbles only.
     
  • ReplyReply
  • « Last Edit: September 27, 2017, 22:58 by t-72, Reason: typos... »

    hiero

    • Road Captain
    • Country: us
    • Posts: 1162
    • Liked: 864
    Re: World Championships 2017
    « Reply #191 on: September 28, 2017, 02:07 »
    Lovin' this conversation!

    I love 'replays' like this. After a sprint finish, I could watch them for hours, analysing what each rider did right and wrong.
     . . .

    There is MORE!!!!  :D   Go to VN Show 61, starting about 3:18 in, they discuss Sagan, the Worlds, and Gaviria. They do the same pointer treatment for Gaviria, pointing out how much work he did to keep the breaks in control. In the VN podcast on the same topic, one of them points out, I think correctly, that if Gaviria had not worked to keep things together, there would not have BEEN a Kristoff / Sagan showdown. His conclusion - Sagan owes Gaviria a few beers!

    In other words, an experienced wheelsucker.

    You remind me of the race where Gerrans wheelsucked Cancellara for a couple of km to take the win. Gerrans never stuck his nose into the wind, not once, and I still have not forgiven him. But he won. And I'm probably the only person in the whole world who thinks he stole that race from Cancellara!  :lol Ah, well, that's life in the cycle lane!

    . . . there are numerous examples of him going solo even when he's arguably the best sprinter left  . . .
    . . .Sagan said something in an interview afterwards which you maybe did not hear (it might have been for Norwegian ears only on TV2 but I am not 100% sure). The reporter said Sagan had stayed hidden for a long time. Sagan filled in "oh yes, I can do that only one time all year and that is this race, the worlds, where I race without the rainbow jersey." . . .
    Oh, yeah. Yes. In Sagan's first year - he won a bunch of stuff - because everybody kept seeming to forget he was there! Since then, he gets marked, whatever he does, whatever he tries, there is somebody there to make sure it doesn't work. He is MARKED, in all caps. We have not seen another rider win in so many different ways in a long time.

    Absolutely, he showed that in the clip above where he was prepared to close down moves or get into them to see where they went. This is not what I call wheel sucking, it's highly intelligent, heat of the moment, tactical riding. He didn't just wait for the race to come his way, he made it come his way.

    And I'm not his biggest fan, I still hold him responsible for deliberately forcing Cavendish into the barriers and out of the TdF but credit where it's due, he rode this perfectly.
    I also hold him responsible for that, but it seems even Cav has forgiven him. Since he isn't (normally) trying to do such shenanigans, and because Cav hasn't held him responsible, I can give him a slide on this one. A cautious slide, but still . . .

    I kind of find it balances my view that Froome gets all the hate on online cycling forums. I appreciate other winners getting their share too. Strange kind of justice, but justice anyway.
     . . .

    :lol   Yeah.

    For his fans, it's just the other way round. When he attacks, it's panache so it's great. When he wins in a sprint, it's great because he's smart. When Cavendish or Kittel wins in sprint, it's never smart. When Van Avermaet wins after a long breakaway like in Rio, it's never panache because he's the hated rival. . . .
    Now hold on just a danged second - you hold your horses now! I love it when Cav wins, and I cheer him! I love it when Kittel or Kristoff win, except if they are against Cav and Cav is there! I cheer them all and give them full credit when they don't break something trying to get there!  And AG is partial to PhilGil, but I've got nothing against GVA - so you just tamp that down, because you are unfairly generalizing!

    Dude, you are digging deep, trying to find arguments to convince yourself and others that Sagan is bad. I don't like Gerrans, or Froome, but I have to recognize that this is based on my feelings - not rational arguments and reason. You don't like Sagan? No problem - that's your right. Don't bother trying to rationalize it, you'll give yourself an ulcer!   :o And that's no good!


    Back to general stuff on Sagan. Somebody mentioned the butt-pinch as a "loss-of-respect" moment. Initially, it was, I think. But I also think this demonstrates how he has grown more mature as time passes. The butt-pinch was not a Trump / Schwarzenegger grope, nor was it an Anthony Weiner personal porn moment. It was an attempt at humor and entertainment, although in poor taste, with bad timing, and somewhat insulting. Just like the "showing-off" that echoes hates so much. But he has never repeated this behavior - as each of the examples I have given HAVE done. He has certainly been appropriately apologetic over the incident, rather than self-righteous, and he has passed the TRUE test of apologizing, i.e. actually changing one's behavior. He was a bit stupid to do it in the first place, but AFAIC, he has clearly demonstrated that he learned the error of his ways!

    30 years ago, watching the canned coverage of the TdF (highlights only), and following newsprint reports in the VeloNews of that day, I did not think we would ever get to analyze, and enjoy, races at the level of detail we have, here, today. It is lovely. As t-72 noted, we, the video audience, get to view details that he did not, sitting on the course. Of course - he got stuff we didn't, but hey, nothing is perfect!
  • ReplyReply

  • Echoes

    • Road Captain
    • Country: be
    • Posts: 1246
    • Liked: 1302
    Re: World Championships 2017
    « Reply #192 on: September 28, 2017, 08:52 »
    Gerrans did take turns with Cancellara and did not steal that victory. Sagan stole many wins, just like Kittel or Cavendish, though a bit less of them.

    And of course my admiration for some rider and my disgust for others are always rational or at least explainable. If I had reasons to like that guy, I would have liked him like I did in his first years when based on your feelings, you did not.
  • ReplyReply

  • hiero

    • Road Captain
    • Country: us
    • Posts: 1162
    • Liked: 864
    Re: World Championships 2017
    « Reply #193 on: October 05, 2017, 02:18 »
    Just ran across this:
    http://sporza.be/cm/sporza/wielrennen/WK/1.3073205#

    Sporza has done a more detailed analysis of the last 4 km - who was where - with arrows.

    I can't get the vid - I think it is country restricted - but maybe you can - and one can always get a proxy if the desire is great enough!  :)
  • ReplyReply

  • LukasCPH

    • World Champion
    • *
    • Country: de
    • Posts: 10257
    • Liked: 6166
      • lukascph.media
    • Awards: Staff of the year 2016Staff of the year 2015Velorooms Tour de France BINGO champion 2014National Championships Predictions Game Winner 2014Velorooms Monday Quiz ChampionPoster of the Year 2013
    Re: World Championships 2017
    « Reply #194 on: October 05, 2017, 07:57 »
    Sporza has done a more detailed analysis of the last 4 km - who was where - with arrows.

    I can't get the vid - I think it is country restricted - but maybe you can - and one can always get a proxy if the desire is great enough!  :)
    Helemaal bedankt!!

    I can confirm that the video is geo-restricted ... and that my desire to watch it was great enough. ;)
  • ReplyReply

  • Echoes

    • Road Captain
    • Country: be
    • Posts: 1246
    • Liked: 1302
    Re: World Championships 2017
    « Reply #195 on: October 05, 2017, 08:50 »
    Not too interesting from what I saw but for the confirmation that Sagan hardly did anything (but for fans it becomes a lot of course because everything he does gets agrandised). Just the same footage with identification and even there a 30" gap without identification when it's impossible to. I don't know if there's sound either (I've muted because at work right now) but I don't think there is.
  • ReplyReply

  • DanielfrusE

    • DanielfrusEXQ
    • Coach Potato
    • Country: hr
    • Posts: 1
    • Liked: 0
      • 5 Easy Facts About How to watch Tennis Live Described
    Reset Decide on a timezone with the listing or maybe the 'Computerized' option to autodetect the timezone. Autodetected timezones swap daylight conserving time immediately, manually preferred alternatives must be modified for the daylight conserving time manually.
     
    We use uncomplicated text documents named cookies, saved on your own computer, to assist us deliver the ideal practical experience to suit your needs. Click go on to acknowledge that you will be satisfied to receive cookies from Wimbledon.com. CONTINUE > Uncover much more
     
    Starting this Monday, you could catch each of the action on Wimbledon's YouTube channel, with Rolex footing the Invoice. You will also discover interviews, powering-the-scenes segments and press convention streams within the movie website, coupled with earlier match highlights along with other featured articles. There's a teaser clip looking ahead to you only past the split.
     
    Our best idea without cost live streaming sport is bet365. We choose the bet365 live streaming player as we find that it is speedy, the impression high quality is significant and you can start it like a stand by yourself participant.
     
    A person could argue that the toughest feat in all of competitive sporting activities should be to get a Grand Slam inside the Activity of tennis, and that is the argument I am heading for In this particular weblog.
     
    Blistering backhands, lightning pace and unintentionally getting goal at his opponent right before a match - Here is hurt Kei Nishikori's highlights in 2017. Watch Formal ATP tennis streams all calendar year roun...
     
    Damage may have Slice Stan Wawrinka's 2017 season limited, however the Swiss star arrived up with a few definitely world-course photographs this year. Watch official ATP tennis streams all calendar year round: ...
     
    There are numerous main tennis tournaments All year long, that it can be quite challenging to help keep up with just what is happening.
     
    Call us classic but we prefer to do matters the legal way and also to entry live streaming sports activities from vendors that shell out the legal rights holders (finally the tennis Match organisers and also the gamers) a price.
     
    Prior to becoming a member of bet365 and funding your account therefore so as to perspective any distinct party by way of the bet365 live stream, that you are strongly advised to to start with Examine with bet365 that, specified your state site, you'll be eligible to check out the live streamed event in problem. bet365’s Get hold of facts are available by clicking here, then clicking ‘Services’ at the very best proper of your web page, after which you can choosing the ‘Contact Us’ option.
     
    128 Guys and women will just take to the grass this 7 days, 7 victories far from being crowned the Gentlemen’s or Women’ Wimbledon Winner, 2015. Inside the Adult males’s Match Novak Djokovic is seeded No.1 and is also a significant favorite to protect his title, however third seed Andy Murray is coming off a strong Queen’s Club tournament and looks to generally be in a a lot better attitude than when exiting in the Quarter Finals final 12 months.
     
    No Portion of This page could possibly be reproduced, saved inside a retrieval procedure or transmitted in any way or by any usually means (which includes photocopying, recording or storing it in almost any medium by Digital implies), without the composed authorization of ATP Tour, Inc..
     
    On the internet bookmakers have uncovered that providing absolutely free live streaming sports acts as a great way of signing up new prospects. Prospects watch the video games and is likely to be tempted to place a bet.
     
    It’s slender pickings to settle on free live streams on the net. In the event you take place to receive a person, it’s either bombarded with numerous ads or it will eventually display pop-ups that might possibly hurt your PC.
     
    http://www.audiovideo.online - audio video Online
    http://www.audiovideo.online - audio book Online
  • ReplyReply

  •  

    Race Calendar


    Today's Events

    Upcoming Events

    Latest Roadbooks



    Top
    Back to top