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The Womens Hour
« on: October 24, 2014, 15:11 »
This turned into quite a debate on twitter, to catch up check @festinagirl @_Pigeons and myself.

Some against it saying it doesnt have the prestige, others arguing that with the hype around the hour at the moment it would be an excellent chance of promotion for the womens side of the sport..

the uci records:
46.065 km/h Leontien Zijlaard-Van Moorsel (NED), 1 October 2003
45.094 km/h Jeannie Longo-Ciprelli (FRA), December 2000
44.767 km/h Jeannie Longo-Ciprelli (FRA), November 2000
43.501 km/h Anna Wilson-Millward (AUS), October 2000

we shall ignore the best human effort that Longo holds..

The question is, should the girls go for it and bring back some prestige...

And then Who???

Kathryne Bertine has already said she would get the ball rolling although not sure if she is serious.. Someone else has suggested Rebecca Romero who would be perfect, semi retired so has the time to focus on it, backing of british cycling, and multi talented..

Vos.. for me, vos doing it would kill it, nobody would ever beat her :D
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    Re: The Womens Hour
    « Reply #1 on: October 24, 2014, 15:16 »
    Voske should do it as retirement event, like Jens did.
    Leave the others in with their chance for now, and then smash it completely in her last outing as a pro.

    Bertine is doing good stuff to get women's cycling into the public eye.
    Although she's not the most talented rider (and she herself would be the first to confirm that), under the new rules she should have a realistic chance. And if it's sets off a number of attempts from others, all the better.
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    Re: The Womens Hour
    « Reply #2 on: October 24, 2014, 17:45 »
    I think thats the thing. Some have said the hour has no prestige for the women, and it would interupt their season to focus on it, and be  a distraction, but i view it more as, everyone is talking about the hour right now, its a bit of a hot topic, and from a promotion point of view, a few women going for the hour will get column inches on the cycling news sites, probably more so than some of the races.

    Interesting the UCI have pretty much ignored it, even cookson has harped on about to do the hour you will have to be in the passport which completely ignores the fact that the Women arent in the pasport.
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    Re: The Womens Hour
    « Reply #3 on: October 25, 2014, 07:43 »
    While the twitter thing popped up on my timeline, didn't get involved.

    Vos do not think she would kill it, so many other riders with better ITT

    Carmen Small would spring to mind

    Linda Villumsen

    Ellen Van dyke

    I would even put money on Bridie ODonnell

    might ask her on twitter  :D
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  • « Last Edit: October 25, 2014, 08:00 by just some guy »
    Of course, if this turns out someday to be the industry standard integrated handlebar-computer-braking solution then I'll eat my kevlar-reinforced aerodynamic hat.

    Larri Nov 12, 2014

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    Re: The Womens Hour
    « Reply #4 on: October 25, 2014, 10:13 »
    On the plus side, things like jumping the furthest or highest, running the fastest over 100m 400m are "pure".  They are the ultimate in athletic endeavour.   There are no tactics; you run in separate lanes from your rivals; it is just you against the watch.  It is not 5 of you fighting to get a good run at the bar. 

    It is the same with the hour record.

    Sadly pharma aids and national politics have ruined these events.  Flo Jo's exploits, born of the Moscow/Los Angeles low points have cast a long shadow over women's short distance events, with no recovery on the horizon.  The current Bolt fiasco, where one athlete is protected by an administration riding the gravy train, whilst his rivals around him, doing exactly what he is doing are repeatedly pinged, is going to leave men's sprint events in an identical hole.  That hole is, in an event with so little to commentate about, apart from absolutes, it becomes tragically and permanently flawed if the absolute is distorted.  Every Women's Olympic 100m final has the time flash up as they cross the line, together with Flo Jo's World record.  Third rate - what is to talk about, let's move on ?  As one poster on the Guardian Hour article so eloquently put it, this article is all about people who broke the record, is there a story to tell about those who tried and failed?  Well of course there is, but it is not newsworthy and will never be told.   That is the problem where the event is only a measure against an absolute standard.

    The hour record has already been similarly savaged.  Remember all the Tony Romminger or Moser taking it, hype.  At the time it was hard not to view it as a joke.  Obree was a small gulp of air taken by the head as it broke the surface, but death by drowning was the ultimate fate of this entertainment.

    We have seen various attempts by the UCI to change rules to try and resuscitate the corpse.    Behind the current wave are the new press pack, finding out about Boardman, the pundit expert voice of cycling, for so many  for the first time.  Match their desire to hide from a truth they do not want to contemplate with Cookson and his "schoolboy" enthusiasm to ensure he never looks too closely at his heroes to see what is in their "wash bag".  Suiting both would be a renascence of this discipline. A fresh coat of paint over a very dirty house.  Sanitise the exploits of the dopers of the past with the deeds of the new "clean riders" of the present.  Look - Jens rode clean and now he has taken the hour record.  "Shut up legs".  Just go and look at the comments section of the Guardian article to see ignorance in all its splendid glory. 

    Track and Field has life support locked in place courtesy of the mechanics of the Olympics. 

    The sport of Cycling is in a different league from these "pure" events that at heart, have little to interest the fan who relishes a sporting drama.  I don't mean the little disciplines that are the winter training extracts from the whole, the sprint, the  pursuit, the team pursuit, the motor pace ( crickey a World Championship  at being the best skiver sitting behind somebody else ?  It used to happen !  Who else can remember the sound of the big bikes at Saffron Lane for the Amateur and Pro Motor paces World Champs – yes it was so good they had two World titles !) I do mean road racing.  Race radios did huge damage to the sport, but what else has so many factors at play all in a dynamic with so many possible permutations to be computed at one time.  A change in direction on route to a straight road with few hedges and a wind from 3/4 ahead.  No time for a lone break.

    One of the great features is that the race is the race on the day, with the conditions of the day,  times are really irrelevant.  To be a great race, there have to be many features. Of course that so many of our new lovers of the sport cannot recognise this was best witnessed at the outpouring of eulogies to Brad's 2012 Tour win.  The race was one of the most boring in the past 50 years.  But move some distance away and take another look.

    The hour record is something that is wholly bad for the sport.  Fundamentally it is a list of glory seeking dopers who are never satisfied with the amount they have already stolen from others - male and female.  For those who have taken it in my lifetime - nailing my own colours to the mast - I will make a single exception - Obree - technically advantage, thinking outside the box giving him enough to make good the pharma difference.   

    Women competing in road cycling have less financial incentive than men and therefore a crude hypotheses might be that doping is less prevalent in women's cycling, a generalism I would endorse. 

    Trumpeting an hour record is pointing the way to a  dark path that would throw away a current advantage.  Were Bolt to waltz off into the sunset with his swag bag and name in the record books, without ever being exposed, see where all that "glory" would leave men's track and field in 15 year's time.

    An hour record, regardless of bike, should be nothing anyone who wants a clean sport should support, I would rather see a resurrection of the motor pace World Champs than that.
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  • « Last Edit: October 25, 2014, 11:45 by riding too slowly »

    just some guy

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    Re: The Womens Hour
    « Reply #5 on: October 31, 2014, 09:36 »
    Bridie said never thought of it until suggested by others

    https://twitter.com/FemininMagazine/status/528097926166622208
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    Re: The Womens Hour
    « Reply #6 on: October 31, 2014, 09:51 »
    If there is a question of lack of prestige, then I would remind those who say so that prestige is equivalent to reputation. And reputation must be earned and maintained.

    So it follows that a lack of competition for the Women's Hour Record guarantees a lack of prestige.
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    Re: The Womens Hour
    « Reply #7 on: November 02, 2014, 08:53 »
    The Revolution track series is trying to get a women hour record attempt,  short notice I guess

    but they have the track , live audience and TV ready to go.

    they are now looking at riders.

    A twitter list was given to them, while some if use were arguing/discussing with pigeons,  they asked us or Ant to be 100% true.

    Ellen van Dyke favoured a tweet, see where it ends

    said tweet

    https://twitter.com/cycling_jsg/status/528119192776478720
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    Re: The Womens Hour
    « Reply #13 on: February 16, 2015, 00:23 »
    First of all, do we really a different thread for the men and women's Hour record?

    I understand that we have different sub-forums, but it is the essence of the Hour record that has sparked my interest recently, and really nothing to do with the gender of the rider. I find the pursuit of the record interesting for its own reasons (as I've outlined the Men's thread) as the final winning time of any rider is completely irrelevant to me. Personally, I find discussing the Women's Hour much less interesting than simply discussing the Hour record itself. But that's all I've to say on the matter for now.

    RE: Sarah Storey: Chasing place in history with UCI hour record

    I understand that Shane is trying valiantly to increase interest in the Hour, but are these statements, in the opening of that article, really true?

    Quote
    In terms of concept, it’s one of the most simple in sport. In terms of effort, it’s one of the most brutal.
    Quote
    Riders have to go deeper than at any other point in their careers.
    Quote
    Breaking the record is huge for a career, but keeping it? That’s even better.

    Those sentiments seem to be an extension of Merckx's oft-quoted recounting of his own attempt, but do they still apply to the efforts we've seen recently? Regarding the first two statements: I've yet to see any signs that the current attempts at the Hour are imposing the sort of suffering upon the riders that would even come close to what so many of them must endure when confronting the harsher elements of nature. As far as the third statement, is there any evidence to back that up? The whole thing has been reset as of late, so we don't really know what it will mean, if anything, to "keep" the record. Only the passage of time will determine if anyone really cares if Wiggo or someone similar sets an enduring record. I've yet to be convinced that it will leave us with anything much more than just a curiosity.

    I've now just realized that everything that article begins with, and everything I've been commenting on, has nothing, whatsoever, to do with "Women's" cycling. It seems silly for this post not to be a part of the Men's Hour Record thread (and I have no intention of duplicating there).

    Btw, I'm not in a bad mood, so I hope this post doesn't come off as suggesting that. I'm just sharing some thoughts.  :)
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    Re: The Womens Hour
    « Reply #14 on: February 16, 2015, 00:31 »
    Quote
    Note: The UCI confirmed to CyclingTips on Friday that viewers around the world will be able to watch the bid live on Saturday, February 28th.

    “The UCI supports Sarah Storey’s attempt,” spokesman Louis Chenaille told CyclingTips on Friday. “Brian Cookson will be attending. We will be paying in full the TV production and we will broadcast the attempt live on the UCI Youtube channel.

    I support that.
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    Re: The Womens Hour
    « Reply #16 on: February 16, 2015, 17:38 »
    Frankly I think it's an excellent idea, but they need to get 3 or 4 of the top riders to do it to generate some chatter as there is in the men's.

    What about someone like Laura Trott? At the very least it would spark some major publicity which could only be good.
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    Re: The Womens Hour
    « Reply #17 on: February 16, 2015, 18:44 »
     Def need someone other than Storey to step up, I fear her "record" will be sub Jens in quality, and without any, and I really mean any of the charm.  Plus the UK news channels will be full of her non story for days... pah! :angry

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    Re: The Womens Hour
    « Reply #19 on: February 19, 2015, 10:30 »
    I did not find the article by Shane Stokes but the one by Donald McRae was everything I was warning about earlier.  Merckx on a pedestal for a dope fueled ride, with not a scintilla of caution put into the tale; ridiculous statements about the physical effort of the hour and as drummer boy pointed out, unrealistic statements about the "fame" and place in history it brings.   
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    Re: The Womens Hour
    « Reply #21 on: February 28, 2015, 16:14 »
    An epic effort but Sarah Storey came up just a bit short of the record.

    45.502Km

    There was a nice discussion in the General Race Livechat.  :P

    She put a serious hurt on herself though. Really shattered at the conclusion. Couldn't stand, couldn't walk, even slid out of her chair.
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    Re: The Womens Hour
    « Reply #22 on: February 28, 2015, 16:50 »
    http://cyclingtips.com.au/2015/03/storey-clocks-up-45-502-kilometres-in-hour-record-bid-finishes-563-metres-adrift-of-van-moorsels-record/

    Quote
    “It was definitely the hardest hour of my life. In the first half hour you are thinking ‘oh my goodness, I haven’t done 30 minutes yet.’ It was really tough.”
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    Re: The Womens Hour
    « Reply #23 on: February 28, 2015, 20:47 »
    So, is Storey, for whatever reason, re-spouting the Merckxian Kool-Aid - or are all male Hour Attempters somehow super-human?!
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    Re: The Womens Hour
    « Reply #24 on: February 28, 2015, 22:10 »
    So, is Storey, for whatever reason, re-spouting the Merckxian Kool-Aid - or are all male Hour Attempters somehow super-human?!
    Dunno, but watching it live, she was in a world of hurt at the end. She could barely move at all. Needed help just to walk, and then couldn't even stay seated in a chair. She appeared to be in muscle-cramp hell.

    To answer your question as best I can, it would seem that either she wasn't as prepared for her outing as the men, or she simply pushed herself harder than they did. Judging by the breakdown of her effort—which showed the she actually increased her pace towards the end, in the hope of making up a deficit—I would say it is the latter of the two scenarios.

    I mean, does this victorious image of Rohan Dennis look like that of a man who pushed himself to his absolute Merckxian-limit?


    Compare that to this image of Sarah Storey after her attempt.


    I think maybe she's just tougher than the fellas, and pushed herself harder.  :)
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  • froome19

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    Re: The Womens Hour
    « Reply #25 on: February 28, 2015, 22:49 »
    Considering her career trajectory and general story that definitely would make sense DB.
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    LukasCPH

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    Re: The Womens Hour
    « Reply #26 on: February 28, 2015, 22:50 »
    I think maybe she's just tougher than the fellas, and pushed herself harder.  :)
    Ah, that's an option I didn't think about: Storey is hard as nails, and Voigt, Brändle, Dennis etc. were basically just going 80%. :P

    With that in mind, I'm really looking forward to Quaade's Hour. He's one that never does things at less than 110%, and could really turn some heads. Especially if he goes before Wiggins, and The Greatest British Cyclist Of All TimesTM then fails to beat this Danish neo-pro's mark. :D
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    Re: The Womens Hour
    « Reply #27 on: February 28, 2015, 23:14 »
    This is something that deserves to posted both here and in the men's thread (and another example of why I'd like the two threads to merge) but can someone explain to me just why-in-the-hell they schedule these Hour attempts to coincide with other races? 
    :angry

    This isn't the first time that the conclusion of an Hour attempt has been nearly identical to that of another calendar event. It's not like the UCI doesn't know how long the Hour will last, or when it should start and stop. Strike that. Based on the Mexican timing debacle, perhaps clocks are indeed as elusive as calendars when it comes to the UCI main office.

    I mean, FFS, it's just so inexcusable if they're seriously trying to grow interest in the Hour, and it's so completely within their grasp to make it right. If they want to schedule these things on the same day, then great! All the better for all parities involved. If done with even the slightest bit of foresight, each event could fuel the other with increased viewing.

    But no. They force the already extremely limited audience of cycling fans to chose between the two. :fp

    Should such things really be so difficult to effectively coordinate?
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  • Servais Knavendish

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    Re: The Womens Hour
    « Reply #28 on: March 01, 2015, 23:12 »
    I think DSS whom I have already admitted to being less than a fan of ( though full respect for the effort) took the sponsors nickle and aligned the event with the revolution series, for an event that was set to be adjacent to Alex D's tilt.
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    Re: The Womens Hour
    « Reply #29 on: March 01, 2015, 23:19 »
    ...aligned the event with the revolution series, for an event that was set to be adjacent to Alex D's tilt.
    I'm going to request a translation here, because I've honestly know idea what that means.  :S
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