collapse


pastronef

  • Road Captain
  • Country: it
  • Posts: 1117
  • Liked: 664
Re: How many languages are you fluent in?
« Reply #60 on: November 08, 2014, 22:12 »
What the hell?  :S

Where do you work, the United Nations?  :P

ahahah, no  :lol
I work in a Spa-Wellness Hotel in Piedmont.
  • ReplyReply

  • cj2002

    • Classics Winner
    • *
    • Country: pt
    • Posts: 2893
    • Liked: 3257
    • Honorary President
    • Awards: Best avatar 2012
    Re: How many languages are you fluent in?
    « Reply #61 on: November 10, 2014, 20:30 »
    This would seem as good a place as any to mention that I am really enjoying making myself understood in Barcelona by speaking Portuguese badly!
  • ReplyReply
  • He shook his head sadly and told me that endemic drug use had compelled him to give up a promising career. "Even one small local race, prize was a salami, and I see doping!" - Tim Moore: Gironimo (Riding the Very Terrible 1914 Tour of Italy)

    L'arri

    • Is on Dr Search's Green and Grey Diet
    • Grand Tour Winner
    • *
    • Country: be
    • Posts: 8071
    • Liked: 6782
    • Dopeology.org @DopeologyDotOrg @L_arriviste
      • Dopeology.org
    • Awards: Post of the year 2015Best Opening Post 2012
    Re: How many languages are you fluent in?
    « Reply #62 on: November 10, 2014, 20:41 »
    This would seem as good a place as any to mention that I am really enjoying making myself understood in Barcelona by speaking Portuguese badly!

    You can also try French if you speak that.

    Also, this has been bugging me because I hate to leave prepositions dangling at the end of the statement ...

    In how many languages are you fluent?
  • ReplyReply
  • Cycling is a Europe thing only and I only watch from Omloop on cause I am cool and sh*t
    RIP Craig1985 / Craig Walsh
    RIP KeithJamesMc / Keith McMahon / Larry Sarni

    Drummer Boy

    • Classics Winner
    • Country: us
    • Posts: 3164
    • Liked: 3775
    • Awards: Post of the year 2015
    Re: How many languages are you fluent in?
    « Reply #63 on: November 10, 2014, 22:05 »
    In how many languages are you fluent?
    Well, not that long ago, you would've been able to do something about that.  :P

    Perhaps you can persuade one of the current Council of Elders to alter the thread title?

    It's all good by me.  :cool




    (Truth be told, the title never sat that well with me. I knew there had to be a better way to express it.)
  • ReplyReply

  • L'arri

    • Is on Dr Search's Green and Grey Diet
    • Grand Tour Winner
    • *
    • Country: be
    • Posts: 8071
    • Liked: 6782
    • Dopeology.org @DopeologyDotOrg @L_arriviste
      • Dopeology.org
    • Awards: Post of the year 2015Best Opening Post 2012
    Re: How many languages are you fluent in?
    « Reply #64 on: November 10, 2014, 22:06 »
    Well, not that long ago, you would've been able to do something about that.  :P

    Perhaps you can persuade one of the current Council of Elders to alter the thread title?

    It's all good by me.  :cool




    (Truth be told, the title never sat that well with me. I knew there was a better way to express it.)

    Oh, don't worry, I still have the power for some reason. ;) Anyway, the title is not wrong, it's just playing on my OCD :D
  • ReplyReply

  • Drummer Boy

    • Classics Winner
    • Country: us
    • Posts: 3164
    • Liked: 3775
    • Awards: Post of the year 2015
    Re: How many languages are you fluent in?
    « Reply #65 on: November 10, 2014, 22:07 »
    ...it's just playing on my OCD :D
    But words do matter, and in a thread about language, they should matter even more.

    So feel free.  :)
  • ReplyReply

  • barrus

    • National Champion
    • Country: 00
    • Posts: 761
    • Liked: 372
    Re: How many languages are you fluent in?
    « Reply #66 on: November 10, 2014, 22:18 »
    A bit of the two but mainly a matter of pronunciation, I guess. For example, the word "boat" in Dutch writes "boot" (but pronounced the same way as in English) and in the Waasland dialect it's pronounced "büt" (German ü).

    But there are also vocabulary differences. For example, a "beer" is "een bier" in Dutch but becomes "een rebbe" in the dialect spoken in Aalst. :lol

    It actually goes very far because on tv you very often have shows (mainly TV series) in local Flemish areas and they would speak their own dialects in it, so that the shows always get subtitles in standard Dutch, whether on public or private broadcasters. The shows can even be aired in the Netherlands (at least that is what my uni professor of linguistics told me) and of course it'll get subtitles.

    It's so that a person from Ostend can't be understood by a guy from Antwerp if he speaks in his local dialect, and reverse is also true. Actually it's the same in the Walloonland where the Walloon of Liège is not the same as the Walloon of Namur but it's now been a couple of generation since Walloons dropped their dialects for French (though not so long ago actually). In Flanders on the other hand, dialects are still pêrennial, something that we can't understand in the French-speaking part because we are learning Dutch as a second language and when we meet Flemings, we realise that they are not speaking the language that we've learnt at all. The official language in Flanders is Dutch (as the Dutch speak it) but the Flemings are learning Dutch at school, they still speak their dialects at home.


    Actually in the Netherlands, so what should be Dutch as the Dutch speak it, sometimes hard to understand from region to region, for example, unless you've been there for a while you won't be able to understand two people from Limburg talk to each other, some with a lot of other regions. I myself also has a pretty thick dialect at times when I am home and it can be really hard for Flemish people, or people from certain other parts of the Netherlands to understand at times (different words and pronounciation). For example, when I am home, or not really focusing on speaking, certain types of letter combinations are different than other parts of the Netherlands. For example what normally is sch, like school, for me can easily turn into sk, ie skool. The pronounciation of eu and ui is often reversed in my region, for example with kuiken (chick) and keuken (kitchen), which I pronounce opposite of how it's written so people don't understand what I mean. Than there are verb differences which can make it even more difficult (since these too are sometimes reversed). And mix it with some base Amsterdam and some other regional peculiarities and it becomes a mess. So yeah, even in the Netherlands there are a lot of different dialects often times hard to understand for non-native speakers or people from other regions


    Oh and to answer the question of the thread:
    Fluent: Dutch
    Decent: English
    Basic: German
    Able to read/interpret most things (non-spoken): French
  • ReplyReply

  • Drummer Boy

    • Classics Winner
    • Country: us
    • Posts: 3164
    • Liked: 3775
    • Awards: Post of the year 2015
    Re: How many languages are you fluent in?
    « Reply #67 on: November 10, 2014, 22:37 »
    For example what normally is sch, like school, for me can easily turn into sk, ie skool.
    Wait a minute, I would pronounce those both exactly the same (like "skool"). :slow
  • ReplyReply

  • barrus

    • National Champion
    • Country: 00
    • Posts: 761
    • Liked: 372
    Re: How many languages are you fluent in?
    « Reply #68 on: November 10, 2014, 22:43 »
    Wait a minute, I would pronounce those both exactly the same (like "skool"). :slow

    In dutch sch is normally sg, so sgool
  • ReplyReply

  • LukasCPH

    • World Champion
    • *
    • Country: de
    • Posts: 11841
    • Liked: 7693
      • lukascph.media
    • Awards: Staff of the year 2016Staff of the year 2015Velorooms Tour de France BINGO champion 2014National Championships Predictions Game Winner 2014Velorooms Monday Quiz ChampionPoster of the Year 2013
    Re: How many languages are you fluent in?
    « Reply #69 on: November 10, 2014, 22:55 »
    In dutch sch is normally sg, so sgool
    More specifically, s-gchchchggchch*sound of slowly being strangled*chchgchch-ool. :P
  • ReplyReply
  • Cyclingnews Women's WorldTour Correspondent
    2017 0711|CYCLING PR Manager; 2016 Stölting Content Editor
    Views presented are my own. RIP Keith & Sean

    Drummer Boy

    • Classics Winner
    • Country: us
    • Posts: 3164
    • Liked: 3775
    • Awards: Post of the year 2015
    Re: How many languages are you fluent in?
    « Reply #70 on: November 10, 2014, 23:10 »
    I realize I've posted this link before, but I think I'd like to meet this girl.  :P

  • ReplyReply

  • oliveira

    • Domestic Rider
    • Country: pt
    • Posts: 91
    • Liked: 78
    Re: How many languages are you fluent in?
    « Reply #71 on: November 11, 2014, 00:00 »
    Well, I'm fluent in my native one, Portuguese. As every portuguese I talk basic spanish, actually a very special basic spanish known as portuñol that is basic spanish spoken as if it was good.

    English is the foreing language where I'm most confortable. Then, I can easily understand written and spoken french and italian, but I can't fluentlly speak or write on those.

    For the rest, I believe I can communicate with every sensient being on the planet out of the art of desenrascanço!
    Spoiler (hover to show)
  • ReplyReply

  • Echoes

    • Road Captain
    • Country: be
    • Posts: 1477
    • Liked: 1720
    Re: How many languages are you fluent in?
    « Reply #72 on: November 11, 2014, 12:11 »
    You've hit upon one of the really weird paradoxes about Quebec French.

    You're right that there are lots of words and phrases that are "purist" French. For example, you'll hear of "le stationnement" far more often than "le parking" or "la fin de semaine" rather than "le weekend" (although the latter is quite common).[...]

    Ah yes "le stationnement". Remember now. But I understand the explanations on Montreal and the Federal Government. I guess the Quebec society has changed a lot over the years and probably they are less of purists than they were 40 years ago. Propably.

    Ahhh, now that is another story ...

    I have a friend who's partner was Franco-Ontarian. They moved to Acadia - and even her partner found the language out there more purist and a bit obscure compared to what they'd grown up speaking ...

    Ah no no no no & no.  :D I was in Acadia but the tennis game I was watching was on a Quebec broadcaster or at least I think so. But it was really weird "balle de bris" for "breakpoint". "Bris d'égalité" for "tie break" (while on the continent we may say "jeu décisif" but more frequently so "tie-break"), balle de manche for "set point" (we say "balle de set" on the continent). Only "balle de match" remained, lol, I thought they would have said "balle de partie", but no.  :lol

    However the Acadians have always been rebels, more so than the Quebeckers that they call "the people from the River" ("Les gens du Fleuve"). They haven't forgotten the "Grand dérangement", I guess.  :P

    You clearly haven't talked to anyone from Hull (QC)!!!   ;)   As I say, it's a local accent that is universally mocked across the rest of Quebec.
    I had a quick surf, and found this interview between what sounds to be a Montrealais and a guy from around the area where I live (whose accent isn't as broad as some here). See if you can spot what I'm talking about with the accents ...  ;) ;)




    Oh lol, even I can't understand that man.  :D But no, I didn't have the pleasure to go west of Montreal. From Montreal we went ot Quebec City, then Tadoussac - for a whale cruise  :) - and then we landed in (Nico) Matane for a whole loop around Gaspesia (breathtaking landscape) and then Acadia/New Brunswick.

    Quote from: barrus
    Actually in the Netherlands, so what should be Dutch as the Dutch speak it, sometimes hard to understand from region to region, for example, unless you've been there for a while you won't be able to understand two people from Limburg talk to each other, some with a lot of other regions.

    But Limburg is on the periphery, right?

    I have several acquaintances from Dutch Limburg, so I know that they have a very distinctive dialect that is close to Belgian Limburg. Frisian is also a peculiar dialect but it's up there in the North. And then you have the region of Breskens and such where people are rather speaking a West-Flemish dialect because it's historically a bit of Flanders in the Netherlands. There are dialectal varieties in every language communities. Read our discussion with Kiwi on Canadian French.  ;)

    Yet there still exists a standard language - Algemeen Beschaafd Nederlands - which was standardised around the Randstad, though based on the historical Brabant dialect (if I remember  my uni courses well), which is the official language in Flanders: of the administration, justice, teaching, and ... public broadcaster (Dim, on Sporza, they speak Dutch, not Flemish  :D).


    By the way, "school" pronounced "sk" is correct for me. It's just that the "ch" sound is guttural, a bit like German 'ch', I think (?) (when not preceded by 's'). When I'm telling this Frenchies for example, I'm saying "just pronounce 'sk'", otherwise it's too complicate. It's just that the 'g' sound also is guttural but it's definitely another sound.
  • ReplyReply
  • "Paris-Roubaix is the biggest cycling race in the world, bigger than the Tour de France, bigger than any other bike race" (Sir Bradley Wiggins)

    LukasCPH

    • World Champion
    • *
    • Country: de
    • Posts: 11841
    • Liked: 7693
      • lukascph.media
    • Awards: Staff of the year 2016Staff of the year 2015Velorooms Tour de France BINGO champion 2014National Championships Predictions Game Winner 2014Velorooms Monday Quiz ChampionPoster of the Year 2013
    Re: How many languages are you fluent in?
    « Reply #73 on: November 12, 2014, 18:19 »
    Frisian is also a peculiar dialect but it's up there in the North.
    Frisian is not a dialect! It's a whole own language!

    Unless of course you're talking about the Dutch that people in Fryslân speak, which is probably very distinct.
  • ReplyReply

  • Kiwirider

    • Neo Pro
    • Country: 00
    • Posts: 288
    • Liked: 486
    Re: How many languages are you fluent in?
    « Reply #74 on: November 13, 2014, 03:56 »
    I guess the Quebec society has changed a lot over the years and probably they are less of purists than they were 40 years ago. Propably.

    Ah no no no no & no.  :D I was in Acadia but the tennis game I was watching was on a Quebec broadcaster or at least I think so. ETC

    So, just to clarify, your comments about Quebecois(es) being language purists are based on that trip? If so, no wonder you were surprised by my initial comments. Even in my short time here, attitudes to language have changed hugely!

    You would've visited shortly after the Quiet Revolution - when Quebec society basically told the catholic church and a whole bunch of other archaic institutions that were holding the province in the dark ages to go get fliped. The influence of those institutions in society was (reportedly - I was still back in NZ, in kindergarten around then) felt in things like the language, where a very purist approach was taken.

    Since then we've had the whole Law 101 (PQ language laws that did things like require French to be larger than English on signs and set up the "Language Police") and the separation referendum. Both events strengthened the hold of French and the desire to differentiate Quebec from ROC (Rest of Canada) - which again helped to strengthen old school French. It also gave rise to such stupidity as Pasta-gate - where the language police wanted to fine an Italian restaurant for using the word "pasta" rather than "pates" on its menu ...

    Needless to say, Quebec became rather insular ...

    Roll forward a few years and we have a whole new internet savvy generation who have realised, of their own volition, that there's a big world out there and that, rightly or wrongly, English is the language that opens them up to it the best. They've also worked out that French is an important language and a huge part of their culture - but that it's a living language and needs to adapt to reflect the world that they live in, with "le surfing du internet" and verbs such as "texter". The education system means that they have to do their schooling in French, but all try to go to English CEGEP (like a polytech).

    Their parents have caught up with this, and apparently 80% of francophone parents want their kids to get English lessons. However an equal proportion oppose those lessons being compulsory at school. (Which makes perfect sense if you live here.)

    Teachers don't understand this - or more to the point, feel threatened by it if they're not bilingual themselves. The Parti Quebecois - the sovereigntist party who were the last provincial government - still hang to their loyal core of rednecks (bluenecks???) and trotted out the usual drivel about enforcement of language laws, changing the curricula to basically exclude references to ROC from most lessons and introduce an incredibly racist "Charte des valeurs fondamentales du Quebec". Didn't work that well for them at the last election and they got seriously buttfliped. Add to that the fact that most of their loyal base is already in geriatric homes or in remote areas, and we've basically seen the last of them - and no doubt most of the sovereigntist movement in its current form.

    Things have changed so much in the last three or four years that the current Premier minister is perfectly bilingual, promotes English being taught in all schools and often makes addresses solely in English. That wouldn't have happened in the last Liberal government, let alone under the PQ ...

    So, yeah, Quebec and language here has changed a bit ...    :)

    Oh, and I can't talk about tennis matches (my partner loves tennis and can't speak French, so we watch in English), but I can tell you that in hockey they talk about "le goalie", "le extra time" and "le icing" ...

    (BTW - to declare my hand politically - I'm a separatist ... big time. However I could never vote for any of the separatist parties, because they're focused on the window dressing rather than the real issues about how to build Quebec's economy and so forth that are actually at the core of separation... )
  • ReplyReply

  • L'arri

    • Is on Dr Search's Green and Grey Diet
    • Grand Tour Winner
    • *
    • Country: be
    • Posts: 8071
    • Liked: 6782
    • Dopeology.org @DopeologyDotOrg @L_arriviste
      • Dopeology.org
    • Awards: Post of the year 2015Best Opening Post 2012
    Re: How many languages are you fluent in?
    « Reply #75 on: November 13, 2014, 09:21 »
    So, just to clarify, your comments about Quebecois(es) being language purists are based on that trip? If so, no wonder you were surprised by my initial comments. Even in my short time here, attitudes to language have changed hugely!

    FWIW, my experience of perceptions of the Québecois is much the same as described by Echoes.

    Those French and Belgian francophones with whom I've discussed Québec have all talked of a pariahlike fastidiousness about the French language that is, for them at least, explained by the insecurity of being a "threatened" minority.

    Québec is a surprisingly common topic. Several of these people express an interest in emigrating there, which is a very fashionable thing to do among thirtysomethings wanting to start or having recently started a family.

    Anyway, having described the language situation as it appears to them, most interlocutors found it understandable but a bit silly (one occasionally hears of examples similar to that 'pasta-pâtes' thing in Flanders).

    But to conclude, unlike Echoes' concrete personal experience however, I think most of what I have heard about language in Québec is just a matter of perception, hence my italicisation of it above. It is quite probable that European perceptions of Québec, largely informed by media coverage and hearsay rather than getting off one's arse to go visit, have some catching up to do. :)
  • ReplyReply

  • Kiwirider

    • Neo Pro
    • Country: 00
    • Posts: 288
    • Liked: 486
    Re: How many languages are you fluent in?
    « Reply #76 on: November 15, 2014, 03:13 »

    Stuff about Euro attitudes to Quebec


    Apart from the comment about language fastidiousness, I'd say that the people who you've been talking to have got a pretty good handle on over here ... especially the "tres cool!!" bit!   :D :D

    And yeah, definitely recommend to them that they get off their arse and get over here to check the place out. As I say to lots of people - a big part of why I turned down a job in Paris two years back was the fact that I'd spent time in Montreal ... so that's definitely a place worth checking out.

    More importantly - since this is Velorooms after all - there are tons and tons of great places to ride. The ideal bike to bring is a cyclocross bike - as not only does it let you ride some of the gentler MTB trails, but a cross bike opens up so much of the countryside to exploring (as many great rides incorporate sealed and unsealed roads). Check out Matt's blog on this bike shop site to see some of the rides around our area: http://www.talltreecycles.ca/blog
    (Ride of the Dammed and Double Cross both head up past our place ... which may explain part of why we live here ... and that's without even talking about the MTB riding and the illegal, "locals only" trails in the park ...  :D :D)

    Anyhow, I've hijacked this thread badly enough with both my sociological ravings about QC and now this ... so, if anyone's interested in knowing a bit about riding over here, let me know and I'll put together a new thread on the topic.
  • ReplyReply

  • Echoes

    • Road Captain
    • Country: be
    • Posts: 1477
    • Liked: 1720
    Re: How many languages are you fluent in?
    « Reply #77 on: November 17, 2014, 10:55 »
    A professor at uni once taught us that the difference between a dialect and a language is that a language is officially sanctioned by a country, just that. By that definition, Frisian is a dialect. But anyway, it doesn't change anything at the point I was trying to make.


    As a Catholic, what I appreciate about Quebec and mostly the Quebec countryside is that they remained traditional and the effect of the Quiet Revolution wasn't persistent all the way.

    The Quiet Revolutioon was an avatar of what teh French called the Glorious Thirty and what the Italians call Italietta, I think. The 30 first post War years characterised by rapid economic growth, welfare state, consumption society and the development of societal issues, ...

    The Parti Quebecois and Levesque in particular (I have no respect for the man) revolutionised the way Quebeckers should look at independence. Until the sixties, Independentists called the region "Bas-Canada" or "French Canada" and from then on they called it "Quebec", which means that they let the Acadians down (+ don't forget there are francophones all the way to British Columbia, I think) and then they respected the bilingual nature of Quebec. The republican conception of a nation.

    Laws like the "pasta gate", etc are red herrings I think. In the 80's Lévesque famously surrendered to the Anglophones (Kitchen Meeting and Lake Meech Agreement), which shows that he didn't really wish independence.

    For those of you who have good command of French and have no problem wih the Canadian accent I'd really recommend this wonderful doco about the Acadians: https://www.onf.ca/film/acadiens_de_la_dispersion (Les Acadiens de la dispersion  :))

    And the conference by Denys Lesage about the Great Peace of Montreal  :cool :


     
  • ReplyReply

  • LukasCPH

    • World Champion
    • *
    • Country: de
    • Posts: 11841
    • Liked: 7693
      • lukascph.media
    • Awards: Staff of the year 2016Staff of the year 2015Velorooms Tour de France BINGO champion 2014National Championships Predictions Game Winner 2014Velorooms Monday Quiz ChampionPoster of the Year 2013
    Re: How many languages are you fluent in?
    « Reply #78 on: November 17, 2014, 12:06 »
    A professor at uni once taught us that the difference between a dialect and a language is that a language is officially sanctioned by a country, just that.
    Frisian is officially sanctioned by both the Netherlands (350.000 native speakers in Fryslân, with more learning it as a second language) and Germany (~10.000 native speakers in North Friesland plus 2000 in the Saterland). It appears on signs at city limits, public institutions etc. (in both countries), and may be used for official communication with authorities, who are obliged to answer in the same language.
    How much more sanctioned can it be?
  • ReplyReply

  • Drummer Boy

    • Classics Winner
    • Country: us
    • Posts: 3164
    • Liked: 3775
    • Awards: Post of the year 2015
    Re: How many languages are you fluent in?
    « Reply #79 on: November 18, 2014, 01:17 »
    For all you linguists... :cool

    23 maps and charts on language

    http://www.vox.com/2014/11/17/7082317/language-maps-charts





  • ReplyReply
  • « Last Edit: November 18, 2014, 01:45 by Drummer Boy »

    Kiwirider

    • Neo Pro
    • Country: 00
    • Posts: 288
    • Liked: 486
    Re: How many languages are you fluent in?
    « Reply #80 on: November 18, 2014, 02:47 »
    Lots of comments about Quebec since the Quiet Revolution

    Ahhh ... respectfully ...  no - to basically everything that you have said in that post about Quebec ...

    A major point of the Quiet Revolution was to trash the role of the catholic church in Quebec - which was hugely responsible for holding Quebec back, since it ran the education system - and it has stayed trashed ever since. There are a few "jesus in the bath-tubs" (the local version of a home shrine - literally using an up-turned bath tub), but the population has turned their back on it big time. As an example, something like 75% of couples in the province are un-married - highest rate in the world apparently. Over half of all children are born to unmarried parents as well ... And we're the only province in Canada to have legalised euthanasia. None of those things exactly sit with a strongly christian community ...

    Levesque wasn't part of the Kitchen Accord - that's part of why Quebec refused to ratify the patriated Constitution, since he and the Quebec delegation felt that they were being shafted by ROC. He was lauded for his stand on this, rather than pilloried as you imply.

    It'd be a brave person who argued that he didn't want or believe in a truly sovereign Quebec ... You may be confusing him with Lucien Bouchard - another former PQ premier and founder of the federal Bloc Quebecois who crafted major changes to the 1995 question, refused to run another referendum while he was premier and recently came out as saying that sovereignty was a distraction for Quebec.

    Also, Bourassa was the Premier ministre at Meech, not Levesque (who had lost the election to Bourassa). Bourassa went on to make the famous "distinct society" speech about Quebec in the Assemblee Nationale after the failure of Meech.

    The term "Bas-Canada" or "Lower Canada" refers to the area that merged with "Upper Canada" to become Canada in the 1800's ... The term hasn't been used in any real way since the 1800's.

    Quebec first came into being in the 1700's. Then name changed to Lower Canada in the early 1800's, but then reverted to Quebec on Confederation (ie., the establishment of Canada) in 1867.

    And as for whether the PQ revolutionised the way that Quebecois(es) viewed the issues of sovereignty and separation ... you are hitting on one of the core questions of the Quiet Revolution. Did the parties involved simply tap into the mood of the time, or did they help to generate it? Really interesting topic that can be discussed/debated for years ...

    Oh, and lastly - Quebec isn't bilingual, at least not officially. French is the only official language of Quebec - but government policy is that certain services (health and justice amongst them) should be made available to residents in the (federal) official language of their chosing ...

     :)
  • ReplyReply
  • « Last Edit: November 18, 2014, 13:30 by Kiwirider »

    pastronef

    • Road Captain
    • Country: it
    • Posts: 1117
    • Liked: 664
    Re: How many languages are you fluent in?
    « Reply #81 on: November 18, 2014, 05:11 »
    For all you linguists... :cool



    so Finland: Finnish Swedish and English, while the 3 baltic: own language, English and Russian.
    Nice one for Luxembourg: Letzeburgisch, German, French, English.

    Letzeburgish is one of the 6-7 languages spoken by Bjarne Riis  ;)
  • ReplyReply

  • Echoes

    • Road Captain
    • Country: be
    • Posts: 1477
    • Liked: 1720
    Re: How many languages are you fluent in?
    « Reply #82 on: November 19, 2014, 17:42 »
    Frisian is officially sanctioned by both the Netherlands (350.000 native speakers in Fryslân, with more learning it as a second language) and Germany (~10.000 native speakers in North Friesland plus 2000 in the Saterland). It appears on signs at city limits, public institutions etc. (in both countries), and may be used for official communication with authorities, who are obliged to answer in the same language.
    How much more sanctioned can it be?

    Only Dutch has the "official language" status in the Netherlands. In Belgium a dozen dialect are recognised as such by the state but only Dutch, French and German are official languages. I'm not sure that Frisian is the language of education and justice. With regards to traffic boards, it's just like Breton in Brittany. Not really the kind of things I approve of.  :-x

    Quote from: Kiwirider
    [About Quebec]


    Apologies for the small inaccuracies but I was in a hurry and typed too fast, lol.

    So the reforms on societal issues that you mentioned are not restricted to Quebec but to most countries and regions which are traditionally Catholic with the exception of Ireland, I guess. In the meantime, you had the Vatican II Council, which changed everything. I guess on societal issues, the Protestants are more conservative than the Vatican II sect (which I don't label Catholic).


    About Lévesque, well I hadn't checked but during the Kitchen Meeting, he was humiliated. The other PM made the agreement while he was sleeping in another hotel. Then, by 1984, he believed in Mulroney's federalization promises and hence abandoned his independence project. The Lake Meech agreement showed how Lévesque was fooled because Mulroney just gave up his promise. Though you are right he did not negotiate with Lévesque.

    Lévesque could gave declared independence straightway after he's been elected but first he decided make it a matter for a referendum and then for a vote in the Parliament. I'm convinced that in hindsight he didn't really wish independence.

    By the way, the reason I think he was really stupid is the way he analysed the De Gaullle speech (a great speech if I ever heard one!) as some sort of an order. "He came to tell us what we had to do!" No way! In his speech De Gaulle only said, "if you dare to do it, we'll be siding you." Which is not the same thing of course.




    oh English is not an official language? Well at least there has always been Anglophone Quebeckers, I guess. Still have Hitchcock's I Confess in mind, in which Montgomery Clift plays an Anglophone priest in Quebec City.  :cool

  • ReplyReply

  • barrus

    • National Champion
    • Country: 00
    • Posts: 761
    • Liked: 372
    Re: How many languages are you fluent in?
    « Reply #83 on: November 19, 2014, 18:08 »
    Frisian has the official language status in the Netherlands. In Frysland it is allowed for schools and public institutes to be in Frisian
  • ReplyReply

  • Kiwirider

    • Neo Pro
    • Country: 00
    • Posts: 288
    • Liked: 486
    Re: How many languages are you fluent in?
    « Reply #84 on: November 21, 2014, 13:37 »

    Still more incorrect comments about Quebec


    Echoes, please tell me that you're just trolling with your posts on this thread ...

    ... or better still, please stop trying to "explain" how Quebec was/is - because you really don't know La Belle Province ... or Canada for that matter.    :shh

    Thanks.

     :cool
  • ReplyReply

  • LukasCPH

    • World Champion
    • *
    • Country: de
    • Posts: 11841
    • Liked: 7693
      • lukascph.media
    • Awards: Staff of the year 2016Staff of the year 2015Velorooms Tour de France BINGO champion 2014National Championships Predictions Game Winner 2014Velorooms Monday Quiz ChampionPoster of the Year 2013
    Re: How many languages are you fluent in?
    « Reply #85 on: November 21, 2014, 22:57 »
    Only Dutch has the "official language" status in the Netherlands. In Belgium a dozen dialect are recognised as such by the state but only Dutch, French and German are official languages. I'm not sure that Frisian is the language of education and justice. With regards to traffic boards, it's just like Breton in Brittany. Not really the kind of things I approve of.  :-x

    barrus puts it as well as it can be said:
    Frisian has the official language status in the Netherlands. In Frysland it is allowed for schools and public institutes to be in Frisian
    In Schleswig-Holstein Frisian, and Danish and Plattdütsch (Low German), are recognised as official languages by the state. In Fryslân, some kindergardens and schools are entirely Frisian-language (at least for the lower classes), and the same is true on the North Frisian islands & Halligen[1] and for Risum-Lindholm and other towns on the mainland where North Frisian is still spoken.

    There are 9 mutually intelligible dialects of Frisian (basically, one for every island or Harde[2] on the mainland), and there used to be even more. Although very similar, slight differences in spelling and pronounciation make each of them distinctive.

    West Frisian and North Frisian are not mutually intelligible - although people will understand some words, you won't be able to strike up a full conversation. Comparable to the relation between Russian and Czech. Therefore Frisian is, in fact, not one language, but several languages.

    Like I said before, Frisian (and Danish and Plattdütsch) may be used for official communication with governmental authorities who are obliged to answer in the same language. This status is enshrined in the constitution and further confirmed with a separate law.

    With regards to the traffic signs: It's not about whether or not you, or anybody else from outside, approve of it.
    It's about what the people living in the area want, approve of, and are proud of. Unlike in the Bretagne, we don't have double-language traffic signs. Directional signs are in German. Only the signs showing the limits of a city/town/village have the German name at the top, and the Frisian (or Danish) name in a smaller font below that:



    I wouldn't attempt to lecture you on details of the situation in Belgium, because I don't have knowledge of the intricacies. So please do not pretend you know more about the languages in the area that I've grown up in, lived in for twenty years, return back to for regular visits, fondly consider my home and am proud to belong to.

    Ik ban stult en Frasche tu san! :)
     1. islands that have no winter dykes and are therefore submerged during storm floods, with the exception of the Warften[1]
     1. artificial mounds on which the houses are built
     2. ancient subdivision, approximately the same as an English 'hundred'
  • ReplyReply

  • Echoes

    • Road Captain
    • Country: be
    • Posts: 1477
    • Liked: 1720
    Re: How many languages are you fluent in?
    « Reply #86 on: November 23, 2014, 11:39 »
    Echoes, please tell me that you're just trolling with your posts on this thread ...


    He ho, I haven't insulted anybody on this thread, right?

    So now that's enough. I'm fed up. Never expected such rudeness. You've all kept annoying me, this conversation is over now.

     :angry
  • ReplyReply

  • Flo

    • #1 Alberto Contador fangirl
    • Grand Tour Winner
    • *
    • Country: nl
    • Posts: 8871
    • Liked: 4563
    • Awards: 2019 Worlds prediction champ2019 Giro prediction champNational Championships Predictions Game Winner 2018KeithJamesMC award 2016Velorooms Trivia Monday Quiz Champion 2015/2016Dish of the Year 2015Member of the year 2015Fan of the year 20152015 Giro Quiz League - 3rd placeNational Championships Predictions Game Winner 2014Fan of the year 2013Best fanboy/girl 2012
    Re: How many languages are you fluent in?
    « Reply #87 on: November 23, 2014, 11:54 »
    For all you linguists... :cool

    23 maps and charts on language

    http://www.vox.com/2014/11/17/7082317/language-maps-charts







    NL win :win

    but seriously, most Dutch people think their English is pretty good, while in reality it's horrific. Yes, they could hold their own in a conversation, but the accent... the accent.. argh
  • ReplyReply
  • RIP Keith
    RIP krebs

    Flo

    • #1 Alberto Contador fangirl
    • Grand Tour Winner
    • *
    • Country: nl
    • Posts: 8871
    • Liked: 4563
    • Awards: 2019 Worlds prediction champ2019 Giro prediction champNational Championships Predictions Game Winner 2018KeithJamesMC award 2016Velorooms Trivia Monday Quiz Champion 2015/2016Dish of the Year 2015Member of the year 2015Fan of the year 20152015 Giro Quiz League - 3rd placeNational Championships Predictions Game Winner 2014Fan of the year 2013Best fanboy/girl 2012
    Re: How many languages are you fluent in?
    « Reply #88 on: November 23, 2014, 12:05 »
    Wait a minute, I would pronounce those both exactly the same (like "skool"). :slow



    ggggg :P
  • ReplyReply

  • Slow Rider

    • Classics Winner
    • Country: nl
    • Posts: 2609
    • Liked: 2509
    Re: How many languages are you fluent in?
    « Reply #89 on: November 23, 2014, 13:25 »
    NL win :win

    but seriously, most Dutch people think their English is pretty good, while in reality it's horrific. Yes, they could hold their own in a conversation, but the accent... the accent.. argh

    Not sure I agree. The Dutch accent in English is bad, sure. But it's perfectly understandable for native and non-native English speakers alike. Sure we sound like uneducated barbarians when we speak English - which often isn't far from the truth to be fair - but everyone who speaks English can understand us.

    Something similar applies to Germans who speak English: it sounds awful, but you can easily understand it.

    Compare that to French, Italians or Japanese trying to speak English. Even if their vocabulary is perfect, I just can't make sense out of it. And neither can many native English speakers.

    Anyone who speaks another language that is not their native one will have an accent - unless perhaps the languages are really closely related - but that doesn't mean their English is bad. In fact, most native speakers probably won't care about our accent: they are used to English spoken with American, British, Australian, Irish, Indian accents. It's mostly us Dutch who recognise the Dutch accent in English as something terribly bad.
  • ReplyReply

  •  



    Top
    Back to top