collapse


DB-Coop

  • Classics Winner
  • *
  • Country: 00
  • Posts: 2686
  • Liked: 1784
  • Awards: KeithJamesMC Memorial award for Extremely Outstanding Content 2014Avatar of 2014Velorooms Vuelta Velogames Winner 2014
The Tactical Mishap Thread
« on: April 26, 2015, 20:02 »
Tactical abnormalities happen all the time in pro cycling. Times when you as an observer wonder is this really the best tactic, or in some cases[1] even start to wonder: "Is this even a tactic?". 2014 was a goodie in this regard, who forget any of the[2] golden moments listed below[3].

NameWhereWhat
The Peloton of PunchersLiege[1]Well the peloton for whatever reason collectively decided that they would all have the best chance of winning by waiting to the last climb[2]. As far as that tactic goes I think for Gerro, Valve etc. that is all fine and well, but surely that can't be the best tactic for all. Sure it probably gives you the highest placing on average. But who cares, if you attack you get TV time, and while nobody remembers a failed attack, the only one that people remember is the winner anyways, maybe the podium[3]. So basically the best way to do it is to race it to win, not for placings[4]
The Scinto SpecialGiro D'ItaliaDuring a stage of the Giro suiting for a breakaway said breakaway got away, sadly the team in Fluo had not managed to get a rider in said breakaway, but with no one wanting to bring it back only a genius would be able to turn the situation. Sad to say, but said genius was not Scinto. Scinto had his full team work to reduce to gap to the breakaway. Why you may ask, did he not realize that even if they caught them[5], they would have used up all there riders. No Scinto did it to punish his team for not making the break. Forcing his team to waste energy that could have been better used on another stage.
Europcar The Attention WhoreTour de FranceIn the end the sport is funded by sponsors, and sponsors need there name to get seen. And since cameras are either at the front or the back of groups this is where you need to be[6]. Well on one stage of the Tour there was a breakaway, a group trying to bridge and the peloton. Europcar was represented in all of these, and where for some reason pulling in all three groups at the same time.
Greg Van Avermaet the Second[7]The fallFirst off I am not going to make fun of all Greg's second places[8], but anyways, in the fall Greg had a change of hearts. Greg was tired of always finishing second from a very select group of riders in tough races. Now you may ask: "What is the best way to ensure you don't finish 2nd in a sprint from a very select group of riders?" - Easy you simply start your sprint at 350 meter to go and finish eight instead.
 1. Happens a lot though
 2. Baring Pozzovivo of cause who made a nice attack
 3. At least if you doesn't manage to finish your beer at amstel
 4. If anyone disagree, then who fourth in arrow this year?, can you tell me without looking it up?
 5. which it was obvious that they could not
 6. Thomas Voeckler has certainly figured this one out, hasn't he?
 7. I used to joke that the only way for Greg to be first was to name his child the before mentioned
 8. Anymore at least^

Either way I hope this illustrates the point of the thread[4]. So on to 2015:

NameWhereWhat
I think he lost his radio[1]The whole spring, Omloop most notablyStijn Vandenbergh is probably the least tactically gifted rider in the world, in Omloop, he is you all have seen managed to turn a 3 to 1 into a loss by trying to go along on an attack by a teammate, and in the process helping Ian Stannard close the gap.
Same procedure as last yearRonde van VlaanderenBMC is one of the strangest teams, ever so often they find them self reluctant to chase with superior numbers lat in races, I can't remember how many times I have seen them let a move make it home, that other wise would not have made it. What you can count on is that they will at some point start their chase when it is too late to make up the gap. Granted it has worked well in The Ardennes, but it always seem to blow up in their faces in Flanders.[2].
A Shark Ate My TeammateLiegeNibali is in the much reduced peloton, Fuglsang is ahead with two other riders,Trying to bridge to Fuglsang, but failing to accelerate strongly enough leads to the full peloton simply following Nibali. Only to then when bridged find out that A: He just used all his power to bridge, B: Fuglsang was the stronger rider on the day anyway.
 1. Is the answer to the question:"What is the most used sentence when Stijn Vandenbergh is on TV by the Eurosport commentators
 2. And yes, I will point out that had they chased earlier GVA would likely have had another 2nd place to his name

These are just the few instances I could think off just now[5]. For more keep pressing update[6], or even better add to the list of tactical mishaps yourself. They can be historical and or present, also feel free to complain about any thing that I have labeled as tactical errors that you don't agree with[7].
 1. The cases we will be discussing here
 2. not so
 3. Oh and in case anyone is wondering, yes the lack of emojis is because I am mad ;)
 4. Oh, and in case you are wondering, yes I am going to keep using this absurd amount of footnotes
 5. And yes I get two likes on a post and I start a thread, you brought it on yourself, all two of you at least
 6. "It would seem like forever is a mighty long time" - Shawn Carter
 7. I won't listen anyways
  • ReplyReply

  • AG

    • Monument Winner
    • *
    • Country: au
    • Posts: 6567
    • Liked: 4001
    • Awards: Winner, 2013 National Championships prediction gameFan of the Year 2013
    Re: The Tactical Mishap Thread
    « Reply #1 on: April 27, 2015, 01:03 »
    you missed Etixx for the whole spring - strongest team, amazing amounts of numbers in the major moves and front groups every race ....

    and not a win to celebrate amongst them all.
  • ReplyReply

  • DJW

    • Road Captain
    • Country: gb
    • Posts: 1297
    • Liked: 891
    • Awards: Rio Olympics Prediction Champ
    Re: The Tactical Mishap Thread
    « Reply #2 on: April 27, 2015, 15:09 »
    you missed Etixx for the whole spring - strongest team, amazing amounts of numbers in the major moves and front groups every race ....

    and not a win to celebrate amongst them all.

    Apart from Strade Bianche and AGR?

    But yeah, they have been generally awful.
  • ReplyReply

  • LukasCPH

    • World Champion
    • *
    • Country: de
    • Posts: 11512
    • Liked: 7409
      • lukascph.media
    • Awards: Staff of the year 2016Staff of the year 2015Velorooms Tour de France BINGO champion 2014National Championships Predictions Game Winner 2014Velorooms Monday Quiz ChampionPoster of the Year 2013
    Re: The Tactical Mishap Thread
    « Reply #3 on: April 27, 2015, 20:14 »
    I certainly hope that the UVI[1] will step in against the ridiculous amount of footnotes displayed here.
    I count on the UVI Honourary President FtP to make a public statement on this matter posthaste.

    :D


    Other than that, a great thread. :cool
     1. Union Veloroomiste Internationale
  • ReplyReply
  • Cyclingnews Women's WorldTour Correspondent
    2017 0711|CYCLING PR Manager; 2016 Stölting Content Editor
    Views presented are my own. RIP Keith & Sean

    L'arri

    • Is on Dr Search's Green and Grey Diet
    • Grand Tour Winner
    • *
    • Country: be
    • Posts: 8065
    • Liked: 6772
    • Dopeology.org @DopeologyDotOrg @L_arriviste
      • Dopeology.org
    • Awards: Post of the year 2015Best Opening Post 2012
    Re: The Tactical Mishap Thread
    « Reply #4 on: April 27, 2015, 20:26 »
    Lovely thread. :cool
  • ReplyReply
  • Cycling is a Europe thing only and I only watch from Omloop on cause I am cool and sh*t
    RIP Craig1985 / Craig Walsh
    RIP KeithJamesMc / Keith McMahon / Larry Sarni

    DB-Coop

    • Classics Winner
    • *
    • Country: 00
    • Posts: 2686
    • Liked: 1784
    • Awards: KeithJamesMC Memorial award for Extremely Outstanding Content 2014Avatar of 2014Velorooms Vuelta Velogames Winner 2014
    Re: The Tactical Mishap Thread
    « Reply #5 on: April 27, 2015, 21:20 »
    I certainly hope that the UVI[1] will step in against the ridiculous amount of footnotes displayed here.
    I count on the UVI Honourary President FtP to make a public statement on this matter posthaste.
     1. Union Veloroomiste Internationale

    Let me before hand state that I then will report it to the CAF[2] and I will win it, luckily I have a TUE for footnotes

    Yours sincerely
    DB-Vinocooprov
     2. Court of Arbitration for Forums
  • ReplyReply

  • DB-Coop

    • Classics Winner
    • *
    • Country: 00
    • Posts: 2686
    • Liked: 1784
    • Awards: KeithJamesMC Memorial award for Extremely Outstanding Content 2014Avatar of 2014Velorooms Vuelta Velogames Winner 2014
    Re: The Tactical Mishap Thread
    « Reply #6 on: April 27, 2015, 21:23 »
    you missed Etixx for the whole spring - strongest team, amazing amounts of numbers in the major moves and front groups every race ....

    and not a win to celebrate amongst them all.

    The two cases where they failed massively was mainly on VDB

    Apart from Strade Bianche and AGR?

    And Kuurne :)
  • ReplyReply

  • DJW

    • Road Captain
    • Country: gb
    • Posts: 1297
    • Liked: 891
    • Awards: Rio Olympics Prediction Champ
    Re: The Tactical Mishap Thread
    « Reply #7 on: April 27, 2015, 21:28 »
    The two cases where they failed massively was mainly on VDB


    I think he comes in for a bit of a hard time. Ok, so he definitely should have had his earpiece in and he DEFINITELY shouldn't have chased down Terpstra's attack...

    But I do feel for the guy. Over the past three years he's repeatedly gotten into great positions, often better than Boonen or Terpstra, but never seems to be trusted as the outright leader. I always get the feeling he just wants a bit of glory for himself and goes about looking for it in the worst way possible.
  • ReplyReply

  • DB-Coop

    • Classics Winner
    • *
    • Country: 00
    • Posts: 2686
    • Liked: 1784
    • Awards: KeithJamesMC Memorial award for Extremely Outstanding Content 2014Avatar of 2014Velorooms Vuelta Velogames Winner 2014
    Re: The Tactical Mishap Thread
    « Reply #8 on: April 27, 2015, 21:50 »
    But I do feel for the guy. Over the past three years he's repeatedly gotten into great positions, often better than Boonen or Terpstra, but never seems to be trusted as the outright leader. I always get the feeling he just wants a bit of glory for himself and goes about looking for it in the worst way possible.

    In all reality I do feel he is a great rider, and honestly messing up tactically twice doesn't take that away. Also it is not even a bad thing for cycling, I mean if everybody was rational and could produce the same power, it would be stupid to watch cycling. In that regard I even like those that use less then ideal tactics. Not sure about him wanting a go at it himself, in my book he seems like he rides for the team, if not why not just sign with another team and be leader? Could Lotto or Garmin use him? sure. Basically it comes down to him having the worst sprint of Terpstra, Boonen and Stybar. Basically meaning that he is always first to work. Even if we say he is just a selfish rider, the right move would still have been  to wait in Omloop, he would have been able to counter attack had Stannard caught Terpstra.

    Also I would like to give some credit out to John Degenkolb and Ian Stannard. If ever there was a perfect move in a race it is the attack made by John and Ian in Roubaix and Omloop respectively. Great tactics, especially as both was not the most obvious tactic, not Degenkolb's at least, but when you think it through it makes so much sense to do as they did, and they proved it worked.
  • ReplyReply

  • DJW

    • Road Captain
    • Country: gb
    • Posts: 1297
    • Liked: 891
    • Awards: Rio Olympics Prediction Champ
    Re: The Tactical Mishap Thread
    « Reply #9 on: April 27, 2015, 22:04 »
    Also I would like to give some credit out to John Degenkolb and Ian Stannard. If ever there was a perfect move in a race it is the attack made by John and Ian in Roubaix and Omloop respectively. Great tactics, especially as both was not the most obvious tactic, not Degenkolb's at least, but when you think it through it makes so much sense to do as they did, and they proved it worked.

    True, they both played absolute blinders.

    I also think Sagan not attacking at the foot of the Poggio was a huge mistake. What did he have to gain by waiting for Degenkolb and Kristoff? I'm not sure Thomas could have followed him and he has won solo from similar distances before.
  • ReplyReply

  • AG

    • Monument Winner
    • *
    • Country: au
    • Posts: 6567
    • Liked: 4001
    • Awards: Winner, 2013 National Championships prediction gameFan of the Year 2013
    Re: The Tactical Mishap Thread
    « Reply #10 on: April 28, 2015, 01:25 »
    in truth I had forgotten about Strade Bianchi.

    I didnt really count AGR in my 'tactical' thinking (though Kwia did win it so what I wrote about them not having a win to celebrate was a bit nonsense)

    Anyway - I didnt really count it as they didnt really DO anything tactically.  Kwia only got back in because of a regrouping at the end ... of which Kwia or Etixx in no way contributed to.   Dumb luck being back in it - but a good sprint to win it when it did.

    and I didnt watch KBK so didnt realise they had won.

    I suppose 3 wins isnt all that bad when you think about it.  Its not the monument or 2 they would have hoped for - but the podiumed damn near everything so its not a complete disaster
  • ReplyReply

  • Drummer Boy

    • Classics Winner
    • Country: us
    • Posts: 2734
    • Liked: 3286
    • Awards: Post of the year 2015
    Re: The Tactical Mishap Thread
    « Reply #11 on: April 28, 2015, 02:02 »
    ...and I didnt watch KBK so didnt realise they had won.

    They didn't. Cav won.  ;)
  • ReplyReply

  •  

    Recent Posts



    Top
    Back to top