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Kiwirider

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I've grown accustomed to the anti-Anglophone sentiment displayed by many European cycling fans ....

Which is beautifully mirrored by the whining, wilfully blind, pro-Anglo sentiment that abounds on boards like this and CN ...

"Pot, kettle, black" as the saying goes ...
(General comment about the board - not directed at any specific member or members)
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  • Jamsque

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    Come on.

    General comment about the board, not directed at any specific member or members.


    I don't care about Richie Porte. He's never been a rider I've supported or cheered for in any specific way, I wouldn't have celebrated if he had won this Giro. I DO care about the sport of professional cycling, and I want to see races organised fairly and rules applied evenly. A minor, almost never enforced rule was pulled out and used to sanction one of three GC contenders in the race, who at the time of the infraction was already at a disadvantage because of a mechanical. Similarly minor rules were then broken by the other two GC contenders in the race with no consequence.

    If you think I am speaking out of 'whining, wilfully blind, pro-Anglo sentiment' when I complain about this then explain to me what the reasoning was behind applying the strictest letter of the law to the Aussie on the British squad and letting the Spaniard and the Italian do whatever they want?
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  • « Last Edit: May 29, 2015, 00:06 by LukasCPH, Reason: replaced language »

    LukasCPH

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    By all means continue to discuss the incident, but do stay clear of personal attacks. :)
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    Views presented are my own. RIP Keith & Sean

    froome19

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    The rules in Cycling do tend to be more arbitrary than those in other sports a lot of the time, if that is the case then I do think that the comissaires discretion should be applied appropriately to ensure that the race doesn't suffer too badly if unecessary as in this case.
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    Kiwirider

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    Come on.

    General comment about the board, not directed at any specific member or members.



    It is a general comment about the board - and if you choose not to believe that, then that's your call.

    This board is very pro-Anglo and is full of a whole series of wilfully blind posts about Anglo riders and Anglo teams. It is every bit as "bad" (if that's the correct adjective) as the boards that you complain about. This thread is just one of many examples of that.

    And to say again: believe what you want, but it is a general comment, not aimed at any one member or group of members ...
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  • Kiwirider

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    By all means continue to discuss the incident, but do stay clear of personal attacks. :)

    No personal attacks in there from me Fus ...

    My comment in brackets was deliberately put in that post to make sure that it was understood that my comments were not personal and were instead about the tone of the board as a whole.
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  • Kiwirider

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    The rules in Cycling do tend to be more arbitrary than those in other sports a lot of the time, if that is the case then I do think that the comissaires discretion should be applied appropriately to ensure that the race doesn't suffer too badly if unecessary as in this case.
    Watch the Stanley Cup play offs and look at how rules around hooking, interference and "unnecessary roughness" are applied and you will see that there's at least one other sport that is as arbitrary.
    (Ask P K Subban about the foul that got him evicted from game 1 of the play offs against the Sens! Totally arbitrary!! But then again, I'm a Habs fan and can't stand the Sens ... so maybe I'm biased ...???)

    Then watch a few international rugby games that involve the All Blacks. Look at the referee intimidation that they have made an art form and also at some of the blatant infringements that they somehow manage to get away with at the expense of other teams.

    The specifics may be different, but any activity that involves people making decisions will be open to debate and comment about consistency, fairness, etc.

    (I of course make that comment as someone who was originally trained as a lawyer - which of course provides a very particular lens on any decision making process ...)
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  • Drummer Boy

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    The rules in Cycling do tend to be more arbitrary than those in other sports a lot of the time...

    If it's arbitrary officiating that you seek, look no further than the NBA.  :-x



    Quote
    Being and NBA referee, and being involved in the planning of how the game was going to be called that night,  I knew certain teams were gonna be at an advantage or a disadvantage

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    I knew a certain referee was going to give special treatment to a certain owner, team or individual player
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  • Jamsque

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    No personal attacks in there from me Fus ...

    My comment in brackets was deliberately put in that post to make sure that it was understood that my comments were not personal and were instead about the tone of the board as a whole.

    Don't throw a thinly veiled insult at me and expect me to be too stupid to part the veil.

    This is an English language board, there are a lot of posters from Anglophone nations who are of course likely to follow and post about riders from their own country, but no-one is out there defending Chris Horner just because he's American and I am certain that you could ask any British poster on this board what they thought of Mark Cavendish, Bradley Wiggins and Chris Froome and not one would respond that they unreservedly support all three.

    Anglo focus, yes, 'whining, wilfully blind, pro-Anglo sentiment' definitely not.

    There absolutely are, however, posters who are not able to let any conversation about Sky or Garmin pass by without getting their oar in and making a nasty comment. People who've been around here a while will I'm sure be aware of my personal opinion of Alberto Contador, but I am perfectly capable of having a conversation about how he is riding at the Giro with his biggest fan on this board without saying things that they are going to take umbrage at. I am not trying to paint myself as a saint but I would hope to be paid the same amount of respect by people who have negative opinions about riders I support.
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  • t-72

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    Cycling is different from many other sports as it appears that there is a tradition of  human interventions and randomness in the way the rules are being applied. In principle, I hate it - I believe  the rules of the sport should be applied equally for all riders and in all situations. (As well as being written well enough to avoid stupid consequences.)
    There is however, a more pragmatic side to me that claims that in having an obviously less than perfect system of justice, with all these apparently random applications of rules, which at least sometimes seem to generate some results that someone wanted, cycling imitates life in a way that few other sports can compare with - and that these unwanted and unpleasant reminders of how imperfect our man-made systems of justice are, are unwanted and unpleasant because it is not only in cycling, it happens in life too, and that is what they remind us about.

    I have lived in both anglophone and latin countries and if there are any culture crash implications here, it is actually not the Italians twisting the rules to their advantage. As far as I know the commissaire who penalized Porte is German and the same guy who threw Ted King out of Tour de France a few years back for a finishing a few seconds after the time cut. King was injured after a crash the day before and already massively disadvantaged. One can safely assume this guy, like me believes the rules should be applied similarly to all riders in all situations.

    I think an Italian commissaire would be more likely to look harder for any conceivable exception to the rules that would not penalize Porte as harshly as it happened, seeing that the situation itself placed Porte in a quite bad situation. However, I am not sure he would find it. Some imperfections are caused by those who write the rules and not those that have a job to enforce them.



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  • Drummer Boy

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    Cycling is different from many other sports as it appears that there is a tradition of  human interventions and randomness in the way the rules are being applied.

    What complicates it even further, is the fact that it is one of the few sports that takes place outside of a designated arena. There can only ever be so many cameras, and so many race officials to take note of possible infractions.

    Such a system practically invites a certain degree of elasticity to the rules, and the enforcement of those rules.

    Clearly though, the system could be improved.
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  • Kiwirider

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    Don't throw a thinly veiled insult at me and expect me to be too stupid to part the veil.

    Wrong again ...

    As I wouldn't know you from a bar of soap and am unlikely to ever cross paths with you, I gain nothing by making any form of personal comment about you - positive or negative.
     

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