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AG

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Crashes involving race vehicles
« on: September 03, 2015, 10:59 »
there has been soooo many this year.

It is obviously becoming more and more of a problem. 

What should we do to fix it?   what steps should we be taking to improve rider safety?


Jim Och wrote to the UCI/Brian Cookson about what he thinks. 

http://www.bmc-switzerland.com/us-en/experience/the-feedzone/an_open_letter_to_the_uci/
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  • « Last Edit: September 03, 2015, 11:12 by L'arri, Reason: clean OP title »

    L'arri

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    Re: crashes with vehicles in races
    « Reply #1 on: September 03, 2015, 11:02 »
    there has been soooo many this year.

    It is obviously becoming more and more of a problem. 

    What should we do to fix it?   what steps should we be taking to improve rider safety?


    Jim Och wrote to the UCI/Brian Cookson about what he thinks. 

    http://www.bmc-switzerland.com/us-en/experience/the-feedzone/an_open_letter_to_the_uci/

    I am curious as to the reasons for this apparent increase in incidents. First of all whether it is perceived or real. If so, is it pure statistical coincidence, are there too many vehicles of all sorts, are the drivers inexperienced?

    One for Shane, perhaps.
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    DJW

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    Re: crashes with vehicles in races
    « Reply #2 on: September 03, 2015, 11:10 »
    I know what Oleg thinks...

    https://twitter.com/olegtinkov/status/639099393078071296

    On a more serious note, there surely must be more training for the riders and greater repercussions when incidents occur.
    We can talk about there being too many vehicles on narrow courses, but we see on every stage moto riders taking ridiculous risks in an attemot to get close ups of every rider. One moto cut up Montaguti going inside him on a bend on a descent yesterday, stuff like that is just unaccapetable.
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  • stereojet

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    Re: crashes with vehicles in races
    « Reply #3 on: September 03, 2015, 11:13 »
    I'm sure the time is coming when drone cameras will take the place of motos. With hilarious (and dangerous) consequences, I'd imagine.
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    Re: Crashes involving race vehicles
    « Reply #4 on: September 03, 2015, 22:07 »
    the Vuelta has send out a Información urgente today

    Quote
    NOTE TO THE FOLLOWERS OF THE 2015 VUELTA

    As a result of the incidents of the last two days, the race directors and the panel of commissaires call upon the drivers of all the vehicles following the race (cars and motorcycles) to be even more vigilant and always give way to the riders.

    Drivers are required to keep a safety distance and avoid obstructing the movements of the Sports Directors' vehicles at the back of the race. Any vehicles responsible for incidents or inappropriate behaviour shall be expelled from the event by the race directors and the panel of commissaires immediately and with no possibility of appeal.
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    Yellow Peril

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    Re: Crashes involving race vehicles
    « Reply #5 on: February 28, 2016, 18:32 »
    I thought I'd ressurrect this this thread.

    Most of the Moto incidents that I can recall in the last couple of years have been on narrow roads or with closing gap situations arising out of a camera moto getting too close.

    today's moto incident (Kuurne - Brussells- Kuurne) was the most blatant example of negligence by a moto rider that I can remember. Broeckx could be seen to be moving out of the Peleton and across the carriageway to the right yet the moto rider still chose to try and cross the closing gap. Was he a camera moto? no he was a medical moto. Was he responding to a medical emergency? not to my knowledge, in fact he appeared to be in the business of making them.

    I believe the issue is that there are far more vehicles hovering around the Peleton than ever. On closed road racing other than a couple of camera motos and the Commissaires who else should be there?

    Rant over
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    Drummer Boy

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    Re: Crashes involving race vehicles
    « Reply #6 on: February 29, 2016, 17:28 »
    Ochowicz weighs in again.

    http://www.bmc-switzerland.com/int-en/experience/the-feedzone/an_open_letter_to_the_uci-1/

    Quote
    29, February 2016

    On September 1, 2015, less than one year ago, I wrote a similar letter after an alarming number of crashes involving vehicles had taken place in the peloton since the beginning of the 2015 season. Despite my reaching out for help at that time, the problem became even more prominent as the season went on and we watched in disbelief. Now here I am again asking the powers to be to take notice.

    This weekend we saw two serious incidents take place that involved vehicles on the race course taking down riders on live television at La Drôme Classic in France and Kuurne-Brussel-Kuurne in Belgium. Incredible! The riders deserve far more respect than what they are receiving from those who are responsible for protecting their safety. We all understand that there exists an element of danger in the sport of cycling from a number of places and conditions but no rider expects to be run down from behind by an over-enthusiastic pilot on a closed race course. Disgraceful!

    This has got to stop before the headlines in the future are of a more disturbing nature than what we have seen in 2015 and now again in 2016.

    To the UCI, I am turning to you for answers and solutions.

    Respectfully,

    Jim Ochowicz

    President/General Manager, BMC Racing Team
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  • Mellow Velo

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    Re: Crashes involving race vehicles
    « Reply #7 on: February 29, 2016, 17:47 »
     I have to admit to wondering why Broeckx was heading for the central reservation, before he was clipped by the motor bike.
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    Re: Crashes involving race vehicles
    « Reply #8 on: February 29, 2016, 17:54 »
    Ochowicz weighs in again.

    http://www.bmc-switzerland.com/int-en/experience/the-feedzone/an_open_letter_to_the_uci-1/

    people saying something just to say something have always been my favorites...
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  • L'arri

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    Re: Crashes involving race vehicles
    « Reply #9 on: March 01, 2016, 09:40 »
    I have to admit to wondering why Broeckx was heading for the central reservation, before he was clipped by the motor bike.

    Perhaps he pinged off either to survey the peloton - to find his team leader for example - or to slip back down to the team car. I know that I drift when I'm looking over my left shoulder too, which can be dangerous in traffic.
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  • hiero

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    Re: crashes with vehicles in races
    « Reply #10 on: March 27, 2016, 02:39 »
    I'm sure the time is coming when drone cameras will take the place of motos. With hilarious (and dangerous) consequences, I'd imagine.

    I am sure you jest, yet actually the concept has merit. AMOF, I believe we will see exactly this within the next few years. With proper design and care - drone "photo-motos" will be far safer than what we have today - and they won't occupy road space. AND, they can go into spaces, like between buildings in town, where we really have no coverage today. AND, they will be quieter than helos. AND . . . . more etc other things, so many reasons.

    Sure a flying drone is dangerous - think flying lawn mower - but at the same time - the danger is relative. The motos are dangerous! Drones can help mitigate the risk.
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    hiero

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    Re: Crashes involving race vehicles
    « Reply #11 on: March 27, 2016, 03:02 »
    I thought I'd ressurrect this this thread.

    Most of the Moto incidents that I can recall in the last couple of years have been on narrow roads or with closing gap situations arising out of a camera moto getting too close.

    today's moto incident (Kuurne - Brussells- Kuurne) was the most blatant example of negligence by a moto rider that I can remember. Broeckx could be seen to be moving out of the Peleton and across the carriageway to the right yet the moto rider still chose to try and cross the closing gap. Was he a camera moto? no he was a medical moto. Was he responding to a medical emergency? not to my knowledge, in fact he appeared to be in the business of making them.

    I believe the issue is that there are far more vehicles hovering around the Peleton than ever. On closed road racing other than a couple of camera motos and the Commissaires who else should be there?

    Rant over

    No stew is made from a single ingredient. The motos need to be more careful - better pre-race training - but also better prioritizing. We need to better use current technology to get the videos that the market currently wants. The size of the peloton needs to be reduced (this is majorly important).
       Given the current market demand for cycling coverage (meaning profit is available), we are NOT going to see a return to the peloton of decades past - "take it easy, 'piano', until 30 km from the finish". Today, it's full gas, all the way, for EVERYBODY. Big change.
        So, the peloton is more likely to make accident-level mistakes, more of the peloton is there, and more motos are there. AND, more of the motos are more aggressive - "Get that picture!".

    The whole recipe needs adjustment. Soon. Phinney nearly lost his life and career. But hey, you guys can provide more examples than I can think of.
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  • hiero

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    Re: Crashes involving race vehicles
    « Reply #12 on: March 27, 2016, 20:03 »
    And bad news has come before good news.

    Antoine Demoitié is in bad shape, apparently.

    http://velonews.competitor.com/2016/03/news/gent-wevelgem-rider-hit-by-moto-after-crash_399950

    Keeping my fingers crossed.
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  • AG

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    Re: Crashes involving race vehicles
    « Reply #13 on: March 28, 2016, 02:12 »
    http://velonews.competitor.com/2016/03/news/gent-wevelgem-rider-hit-by-moto-after-crash_399950

    this says it was updated an hr ago and that he has died     :(    :(    :(

    So sad for his wife and family.   





    seriously - there were so many moto's ... it was only a matter of time before something like this happened.

    It is so sad that it has cost a young man his life before anything is done.  This was forseeable ... so angry
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  • hiero

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    Re: Crashes involving race vehicles
    « Reply #14 on: March 28, 2016, 04:12 »
    http://velonews.competitor.com/2016/03/news/gent-wevelgem-rider-hit-by-moto-after-crash_399950

    this says it was updated an hr ago and that he has died     :(    :(    :(

    So sad for his wife and family.   





    seriously - there were so many moto's ... it was only a matter of time before something like this happened.

    It is so sad that it has cost a young man his life before anything is done.  This was forseeable ... so angry

    Concur. I had sent a tweet to Cookson back when Sagan got clipped. Sent an email a couple of weeks ago. And now my unfortunate prediction has come true. This is very bad.
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  • Claudio Cappuccino

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    Re: Crashes involving race vehicles
    « Reply #15 on: March 28, 2016, 09:13 »
    Cyclists dying during a race is from all times but those avoidable are the saddest I think.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_professional_cyclists_who_died_during_a_race
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  • AG

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    Re: Crashes involving race vehicles
    « Reply #16 on: March 28, 2016, 11:25 »
    How about we put together a list of all the moto/vehicle v cyclist incidents in races over hte last few years.

    Attach video if you can find it ...

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  • Mellow Velo

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    Re: Crashes involving race vehicles
    « Reply #17 on: March 28, 2016, 11:29 »
    How about we put together a list of all the moto/vehicle v cyclist incidents in races over hte last few years.

    Attach video if you can find it ...

    AG: There's a job for you over in chat. :fp

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  • AG

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    Re: Crashes involving race vehicles
    « Reply #18 on: March 28, 2016, 11:31 »
    I was thinking more where the moto caused the crash ....
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  • Mellow Velo

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    Re: Crashes involving race vehicles
    « Reply #19 on: March 28, 2016, 11:34 »
    I was thinking more where the moto caused the crash ....

    TBH, other than those already recently commented upon, the only other one I can recall (vaguely) was, I think CAS? getting clipped, several years ago..........
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  • AG

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    Re: Crashes involving race vehicles
    « Reply #20 on: March 28, 2016, 11:36 »
    well

    Peter Sagan at the Vuelta 2015



    Greg Van Avermaat at Classica San Sebastion 2015
    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/tv-motorcycle-collides-with-van-avermaet-at-clsica-san-sebastin/

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  • Mellow Velo

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    Re: Crashes involving race vehicles
    « Reply #21 on: March 28, 2016, 11:37 »
     Well, I was nearly right with the rider.



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  • Mellow Velo

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    Re: Crashes involving race vehicles
    « Reply #22 on: March 28, 2016, 11:42 »
    Well, another very recent one then. KBK 2016 Stig Broeckx:-

    http://video.eurosport.co.uk/cycling/kuurne-brussel-kuurne/2016/stig-broeckx-avoids-serious-injury-after-being-hit-by-motorbike_vid526764/video.shtml

    That's my contribution finished for now. Will wrack my old brains....
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  • Claudio Cappuccino

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    Re: Crashes involving race vehicles
    « Reply #23 on: March 28, 2016, 11:46 »
    How about we put together a list of all the moto/vehicle v cyclist incidents in races over hte last few years.

    Attach video if you can find it ...
    When you look closely to the Brammeier video you will see there were cars/motards on the racing line. His ludicrous speed was also a big reason of course.





    And of course Jesse Sergent:



    Hoogerland:


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  • Mellow Velo

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    Re: Crashes involving race vehicles
    « Reply #24 on: March 28, 2016, 12:00 »
    Yup. Share the love with cars, I say.

    Here's one I hadn't seen or heard about. Sergio Henao 2012 Vuelta at just over a minute in.
    Some elements of yesterday's tragedy in here:


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  • AG

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    Re: Crashes involving race vehicles
    « Reply #25 on: March 28, 2016, 13:31 »
    The Jesse Sergeant incident wasnt the only one at the Tour of Flanders last year.

    https://twitter.com/cyclingreporter/status/584706261381472256

    neutral service crashed into FDJ car who hit Sebastian Chavanel


    (its shown after the Sergant crash)

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  • AG

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    Re: Crashes involving race vehicles
    « Reply #26 on: March 28, 2016, 13:37 »
    and the Vuelta 2015 also had 2 incidents.   The Saga on shown above, and a report that Sergio Paulinho was also involved in a collision with a motorbike

    http://velonews.competitor.com/2015/09/news/paulinho-out-of-vuelta-after-another-moto-incident_383516

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  • AG

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    hiero

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    Re: Crashes involving race vehicles
    « Reply #29 on: March 28, 2016, 15:37 »
    great article by Neal Rogers

    http://cyclingtips.com/2016/03/commentary-gent-wevelgem-fatality-a-tragedy-that-has-been-a-long-time-coming/

    It is a good article. He points to better driver training - or perhaps a conversion to a professional cadre of race drivers.
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