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AG

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Re: Crashes involving race vehicles
« Reply #90 on: May 29, 2016, 05:16 »
Tour of Belgium Disaster

http://www.sbs.com.au/cyclingcentral/article/2016/05/29/broeckx-coma-after-belgium-tour-moto-crash

Stig Broeckz is in a coma after 2 moto's crashed in the middle of the peloton taking out a whole bunch of riders.

It appears that the 2 moto's were passing the peloton on one side when the one in front hit a pot hole and braked suddenly.  the second moto rear ended the first, and both went down, taking a whole bunch of riders out.

Stig Broeckx - who was hit by a moto in KBK earlier this year - is worst off, with head injuries and is in a como.

19 riders were involved, with 11 being taken to hospital.

 :(


I honestly dont know the solution ... but something has to change.



http://cyclingtips.com/2016/05/race-motos-cause-mass-pileup-at-belgium-tour-broeckx-in-coma-with-suspected-skull-fracture/


Quote
The crash caused a strong reaction from pro riders, including Etixx-QuickStep’s Tony Martin, who posted on Twitter, “What we need NOW is a round table with UCI, race organizers and riders to force changes and decide one safty standard for EVERY race!”


Quote
Wanty-Groupe Gobert rider Enrico Gasparatto spoke with Sporza after the crash, saying he felt immediately that the race must be cancelled. “I knew that it was very serious. What happened already with our team this year [the death of Antoine Demoitié] cannot happen again. We need to give a big signal to everybody, that we are the riders, but before being riders, we are fathers, we have families. Sometimes we have to look ourselves in the mirror, and not think about the race, or winning, or contracts. The most important thing is to live. To cancel the race was the best decision.”
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  • Echoes

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    Re: Crashes involving race vehicles
    « Reply #91 on: June 22, 2016, 14:04 »
    Belgian federation took measures to improve riders safety limiting the number of riders in the peloton up to 120 individuals for novice races, 150 ones for juniors and 175 for U23 & amateurs and prohibits vehicles to overtake the peloton. But not for the pro races because they are not competent to decide, which in my opinion is staggering. I think the UCI has no say about races organised on the Belgian territory, except if it's the Worlds. It's about time we decentralised it.

    Article from today's Gazet van Antwerpen:

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  • "Paris-Roubaix is the biggest cycling race in the world, bigger than the Tour de France, bigger than any other bike race" (Sir Bradley Wiggins)

    just some guy

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    Of course, if this turns out someday to be the industry standard integrated handlebar-computer-braking solution then I'll eat my kevlar-reinforced aerodynamic hat.

    Larri Nov 12, 2014

    Ram

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    Re: Crashes involving race vehicles
    « Reply #93 on: May 26, 2017, 05:53 »
    Bumping this. One thing major races can adopt is having much smaller motorbikes, as in  the tour of Japan this year (or most Asian motorcycles). 150-250cc, and thus light as any vehicle. As a fallout, it accelerates better at low speeds, and in case of a crash/stall/breakdown can be moved very easily instead of requiring a bloody excavator.

    The trade off is camera stability will likely reduce. Whether that is negotiable is a major point.
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  • AG

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    Re: Crashes involving race vehicles
    « Reply #94 on: May 26, 2017, 07:15 »
    I think that s a fair trade.

    I would much prefer a safer environment for the riders than a stable camera image.  So it will jump around a bit ... they will just have to use the heli shots more ....

    the moto incidents are just too much - and there are still waaayyy to many motorbikes within the peleton.

    If they arent willing to sacrifice image quality (advertisers etc want better quality pics), at least have the police escorts, neutral service, guy with the blackboards, guys doing road safety etc that have to move back and forth (ie 3/4 of hte bikes) on those.

    If we go back through this thread, a number of the crashes were not camera bikes but various other moto's that are required.
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  • M Gee

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    Re: Crashes involving race vehicles
    « Reply #95 on: April 07, 2018, 03:36 »
    What was mere fiction - SCIENCE fiction - 4 years ago has become reality.

    I didn't think we would see something workable for another 10 years, but today I think the race organizers should start thinking

    DRONE

    Check it out.
    https://twitter.com/SkydioHQ
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  • . . .He had the bit between his teeth, and he loiked the taste, mate . . .

    t-72

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    Re: Crashes involving race vehicles
    « Reply #96 on: April 07, 2018, 06:57 »
    New technology should always be considered. This drone looks quite tiny compared to the one that dropped out of the sky almost hitting MArcel Hirscher in Alta Badia GS (Alpine skiing) a few years back.
    Times are changing: I was quite surprised when watching the World Championship in Bergen last year. Did anyone notice most of the cameras used for filming was the size of a GoPro?
    Indeed I am not surprised if they were special version GoPros?
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  • M Gee

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    Re: Crashes involving race vehicles
    « Reply #97 on: April 07, 2018, 15:48 »
       . . . most of the cameras used for filming was the size of a GoPro?
    Indeed I am not surprised if they were special version GoPros?

    I wouldn't be surprised, either. GoPro, even tho they are at the low end of the market, get used a lot, for instance, at Red Bull events. I don't know what the peloton is using for onboard peloton video, but it is likely a GoPro or a copycat. The next camera up in size is a huge leap in cost: Red. An unknown name brand back in the 90's, they have skyrocketed to the front of the pack for digital cinema. What that means in size you can see here.

    I'm going to guess that the film companies doing the road races haven't felt the need to spend the kind of money you need to buy and use RED equipment - a new RED can set you back 70K US. Since they are using bigger motos, the need for lightweight and small size are not so important - but I do notice the cameras they use today are smaller than they would have been 20 years ago.

    A RED camera isn't a whole lot larger than a GoPro, and I'm sure other mfrs are following suit. Typically, though, you see RED equipment attatched to lenses and shooting platforms that double, or more, the size of the package.

    Compared to a RED, a GoPro can be rolling for under $1k US, and that's top end. I'll guess they can trick them out with bigger and more diverse lenses, which would add to the cost, but lenses would add to the cost of RED also.

    The technology, though, is proceeding at zip train speed - fast. Both in the recording cameras, and in the drones. The avoidance technology of the Skydio is more advanced than anything I even thought was seriously in the works 4 years ago, when I attended the annual AUVSI conference. And now they've got it out - in production.

    As for the size you will see for sporting events - they may have to be larger. Those small packages give you a very limited flight time - and that is just plain physics. That little flight package has to carry enough energy to power it. Energy is in the form of batteries, and it is heavy. There may be breakthroughs on that front as well, but I would suspect that those will take longer, as RC technology has been around for a while. Somebody might be able to improve performance time by going to an onboard generator scheme, like big diesel trains do these days. The gas powers the generators, which in turn power the electric motors that actually move the train.

    But trains don't have the weight restrictions of flying, so I can think it easily possible that the combined weight requirements might rule such a solution out. But I'm not an RC expert, so what do I know?
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  • « Last Edit: April 07, 2018, 16:02 by M Gee »

    M Gee

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    Re: Crashes involving race vehicles
    « Reply #98 on: May 07, 2018, 19:38 »
    We've focused on motos and riders, but holy shet batman! This traffic marshal was where he was supposed to be for rider safety, and came within inches of getting taken out!

    https://twitter.com/nathlukecurrie/status/993193393814634496
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  • Drummer Boy

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    Re: Crashes involving race vehicles
    « Reply #99 on: May 07, 2018, 19:46 »
    We've focused on motos and riders, but holy shet batman! This traffic marshal was where he was supposed to be for rider safety, and came within inches of getting taken out!
    .
    WTF?! Terrifying. He's very lucky to have walked away unscathed.
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  • rote_laterne

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    Re: Crashes involving race vehicles
    « Reply #100 on: May 07, 2018, 20:26 »
    Of course I don't like the incident but the distribution of the video. It's unbelievable. Glad the person the police person reacted fast enough and is still alive. Seems like the sports director didn't even stop the car and only apologized after the race.
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  • t-72

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    Re: Crashes involving race vehicles
    « Reply #101 on: May 07, 2018, 21:39 »
    It's a lucky escape. Was there any consequences for the driver?

    The officer/race official/whatever you call it was a bit uneager to flash his yellow arrow, but the road markings leading up to this "island" is a bit confusing, it looks almost like a separate lane which just stops in the "island" where the official is standing and should be waving his yellow arrow a little higher, a little harder.

    I have seen this set up used a lot of times and it is very unsafe for the officials as just demonstrated. It is basically the same positioning as the lady that was killed in the P-R a couple of years back; on an island in the middle of the peloton / team car train etc. How much difference does yellow hi-viz clothing and the arrow do? Nothing if the drivers don't pay attention, as in this case.
    I would demand a heavy concrete barrier further up the road to take this position.

    I understand better now why they removed most of these "islands" here during the worlds....
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  • Drummer Boy

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    Re: Crashes involving race vehicles
    « Reply #102 on: May 08, 2018, 03:00 »
    It is basically the same positioning as the lady that was killed in the P-R a couple of years back; on an island in the middle of the peloton

    Did that happen? Or are you thinking of this incident:
    http://velorooms.com/index.php?topic=5334.msg178590#msg178590



    FWIW, while I was searching for that story, I came across an alarming number of stories, from races big and small, where spectators had been killed or injured.  :(
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  • Armchair Cyclist

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    Re: Crashes involving race vehicles
    « Reply #103 on: May 08, 2018, 08:32 »
    It's a lucky escape. Was there any consequences for the driver?

    The officer/race official/whatever you call it was a bit uneager to flash his yellow arrow, but the road markings leading up to this "island" is a bit confusing, it looks almost like a separate lane which just stops in the "island" where the official is standing and should be waving his yellow arrow a little higher, a little harder.

    I have seen this set up used a lot of times and it is very unsafe for the officials as just demonstrated. It is basically the same positioning as the lady that was killed in the P-R a couple of years back; on an island in the middle of the peloton / team car train etc. How much difference does yellow hi-viz clothing and the arrow do? Nothing if the drivers don't pay attention, as in this case.
    I would demand a heavy concrete barrier further up the road to take this position.

    I understand better now why they removed most of these "islands" here during the worlds....

    Yes: that is a lane, clearly marked as a lane for traffic turning right into the turning at the top right corner of the picture.  There would probably have been diagonals on the road before that. 

    I note the Astana apology says ""The sport director that was driving the car contacted the race organiser directly after the race to send our apologies,""  If the Sports Director is primarily concerned with instructing his team, listening to race updates, watching coverage, calculating gaps etc, he is in no position to be driving.  Surely the control of a deadly weapon should be the role of someone who is not directly in charge of so many other things at the same time.


    "I would demand a heavy concrete barrier further up the road to take this position. " And who is going to stand in front of that barrier to warn riders of it?
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  • M Gee

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    Re: Crashes involving race vehicles
    « Reply #104 on: May 08, 2018, 17:09 »
    . . .


    "I would demand a heavy concrete barrier further up the road to take this position. " And who is going to stand in front of that barrier to warn riders of it?


    Errmmm. Ya. Now that you mention it . . .
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  • M Gee

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    Re: Crashes involving race vehicles
    « Reply #105 on: July 09, 2018, 00:50 »
    I'm not sure if this is our main "safety" thread, but it was the first "safety" thread I could find. And the following link should be added to the conversation. Good discussion of the impact of reducing team size.

    https://fullgas.blog/2018/06/14/what-impact-has-reducing-team-sizes-had-on-racing-and-tactics/

    I noticed that one comment had that, with reduced team size, the number of teams was increased by some organizers - so maybe they need to limit the number of total riders as well. Simple logic, which can be wrong, but still, simple logic tells me that reducing team size but keeping the same number in the peloton is no way to reduce risk.
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  • LukasCPH

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    Re: Crashes involving race vehicles
    « Reply #106 on: July 09, 2018, 06:53 »
    I noticed that one comment had that, with reduced team size, the number of teams was increased by some organizers - so maybe they need to limit the number of total riders as well. Simple logic, which can be wrong, but still, simple logic tells me that reducing team size but keeping the same number in the peloton is no way to reduce risk.
    Yes and no.

    The maximum size of the peloton was reduced from 200 (e.g. 25x8, or 22x9 and then some) to 176 (22x8) as well. Of course, many races never came close even to the lower limit, so some may have invited more teams this year.
    But by and large, looking at this year's startlists, most races don't have more teams now than they had before - maybe one extra team or so, but that's almost natural fluctuation.

    From this week's experience in Sibiu where we had some atrocious weather and only one crash (and that was in the very technical prologue), it's the way the riders race more than the size of the peloton. In the Tour, everybody wants to be at the front all the time, and it's the biggest race of their season (if not career) for all 176. So you have crashes.
    It's true that we only had 106 riders here, so the extra 70 shouldn't be discounted - but I don't think it's solely due to size. You could have a Tour with 80 riders, and there would still be (unnecessary) risks taken with crashes as a result.
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    Armchair Cyclist

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    Re: Crashes involving race vehicles
    « Reply #107 on: July 09, 2018, 08:01 »

    I noticed that one comment had that, with reduced team size, the number of teams was increased by some organizers - so maybe they need to limit the number of total riders as well. Simple logic, which can be wrong, but still, simple logic tells me that reducing team size but keeping the same number in the peloton is no way to reduce risk.

    The new rule is a maximum number of riders: 22x8 (176) in GTs, 25x7 (175) in all others.  More teams only if the race was already below the previous capacity for teams.
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