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How awesome is Alberto?

Very awesome
Pretty awesome
Awesome
Kind of awesome
Not so awesome
Not awesome at all
Hate him

benotti69

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http://road.cc/content/news/59757-alberto-contador-return-saxo-bank-once-doping-ban-ends-august

 Alberto Contador to return to Saxo Bank once doping ban ends in August
Spaniard signs contract that will keep him at Bjarne Riis's outfit till end of 2015
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  • "ahaha, ever had the feeling you been cheated?" JL SF Jan'78

    Slow Rider

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    Thanks JSG, exactly what I was going to say.

    In my book, Pereiro 2006, Contador 2007, Sastre 2008 and Evans 2011 are all completely deserved winners, even if during all those years other riders were disqualified, forbidden to participate, or otherwise held up. Schleck 2010 is a bit of an exception here, since I am quite doubtful on the Contador doping story, but I think that in a few years everyone will view Schleck as the winner there, just like I now view Pereiro as the 2006 winner.

    Just the 2011 Giro I will always think of as won by Alberto. He won that fair and square and didn't get caught doping during that time.

    But whoever wins the Tour this year, I will fully accept as the winner. They can't be blamed for what Contador did or didn't do.
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  • Francois the Postman

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    Did Contador deserve to win the 2007 tour ?

    It is not so much about the "deserving" bit, more about how high I rate the win along my highly subjective internal "how highly do I rate a particular win" meter. Some wins are making less of an impression on me, even if the winner had no real hand in why I think the victory was less epic than it could have been.

    Sure, anyone this year deserves to win. I also don't swing the other way, I don't dis-rate it. But, I simply won't rate the win as high as I could have rated it, if it would have been raced under 'more normal circumstances'. With everyone expected to be there present. It's just how I tick, I guess.

    If you go back to my posts on another board then you'll probably find that I consider that 2007 Tour spoilt for obvious reasons. And still feel that way. Contador and team never tested, everyone a bit less active than they would have been.

    Saying that, under normal circumstances, I still would expect Contador more than Rasmussen to come out trumps. And, if pressed, I would expect Contador to be able to emerge from the Pyrenees with a wider margin than he had. Or with Cadel more strained than he was, if Rasmussen had been taken out of the equation earlier, and there had been a more obvious tete-a-tete in the climbs.

    I think Contador won that Tour "more" than anyone who wins this Tour in which Contador isn't able to start, if that makes sense.

    I get why you don't like that, or why you feel differently. But I can only feel the way I do.

    Boonen's win in Paris Roubaix is something I value, highly even, the way he went about it. But it still lost a lot of the potential shine it could have had, if it had been a win with Cancellara in it. It will always be a win with an asterisk attached, to me, and that's how I will remember it.
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  • just some guy

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    which is fine, as all opinions count












    but your wrong .... just kidding  ;D  :P




     
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  • Of course, if this turns out someday to be the industry standard integrated handlebar-computer-braking solution then I'll eat my kevlar-reinforced aerodynamic hat.

    Larri Nov 12, 2014

    Flo

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    but I think that in a few years everyone will view Schleck as the winner there, just like I now view Pereiro as the 2006 winner.

    No.  >:(
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  • RIP Keith

    Flo

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    http://road.cc/content/news/59757-alberto-contador-return-saxo-bank-once-doping-ban-ends-august

     Alberto Contador to return to Saxo Bank once doping ban ends in August
    Spaniard signs contract that will keep him at Bjarne Riis's outfit till end of 2015

    Old news.
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  • Tuart

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    But Contador did race the Tour and did compete, he just had the Giro in his legs, which was his choice, so I still don't follow how last year's Tour is diminished in anyway.
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  • 2014 Velorooms Giro d'Italia Velogames Winner

    Francois the Postman

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    But Contador did race the Tour and did compete, he just had the Giro in his legs, which was his choice, so I still don't follow how last year's Tour is diminished in anyway.

    I suspect because the Tour was initially not going to be part of his racing calendar given an "imminent" CAS decision. If he had been planning his calendar unburdened with these additional factors, and knew that a Tour start was a formality, he probably would have ridden the Giro with this in mind (if at all). Now it was the bonus that was one hill too far.

    It is obvious it was his choice, but it was the sort of choice made with the type of muddy clarity that you get after rain on a Strada Bianchi.
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  • Tuart

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    No, don't agree.
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  • The Hitch

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    No, don't agree.

    Ok so lets ignore the Giro.

    Giro effected Contador to the extent that he wasnt flying away with/without Andy in the mountains, but he was still arguably as strong as anyone even with the giro in his legs.

    What really hurt contador and was not "his choice" was the knee injury after  Karpets shoved him of his bike, and weakened Contador far more than the Giro.

    Before it Contador was as good as anyone, finishing with everyone else on the hills, even on the stages schleck was dropped,  losing the stage to evans by 2cm.

     After it he was unable to train properly on the rest day, Cadel himself said he saw Contador with a limp  and it happened just before the Luz Ardiden stage where he cracked, before which he said himself that he was worried about the knee.

    The other day he cracked - Galibier, he said before the stage that his knee really hurt and there was the whole discussion throughout the stage on the forums  about how he was "bluffing", right up until the moment he lost contact.

    The 2 days he said the knee injury worried him before hand, were the 2 days he cracked.

    Also we should take into consideration the little boy who decided to step  out right after all the other gc candidates had gone past and cost Contador a minute and a half on the first stage

    Without that  incident Contador  would have been up there in the gc - about 50 seconds rather than the 2.20 he was down on Schleck and Evans and he would not have been forced to throw away his hang on energy supply by  chasing seconds on hills and descents in the pre alpe stages. He would
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  • Despite the self-serving data benders and associated propaganda to the contrary, I am led to believe that there are pockets of organised, highly sophisticated dopers, even within 'new age' cycling teams. Personally, I don't accept that the 'dark era' has ended, it has just morphed into a new guise.

    Tuart

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    Ok so lets ignore the Giro.

    Giro effected Contador to the extent that he wasnt flying away with/without Andy in the mountains, but he was still arguably as strong as anyone even with the giro in his legs.

    What really hurt contador and was not "his choice" was the knee injury after  Karpets shoved him of his bike, and weakened Contador far more than the Giro.

    Before it Contador was as good as anyone, finishing with everyone else on the hills, even on the stages schleck was dropped,  losing the stage to evans by 2cm.

     After it he was unable to train properly on the rest day, Cadel himself said he saw Contador with a limp  and it happened just before the Luz Ardiden stage where he cracked, before which he said himself that he was worried about the knee.

    The other day he cracked - Galibier, he said before the stage that his knee really hurt and there was the whole discussion throughout the stage on the forums  about how he was "bluffing", right up until the moment he lost contact.

    The 2 days he said the knee injury worried him before hand, were the 2 days he cracked.

    Also we should take into consideration the little boy who decided to step  out right after all the other gc candidates had gone past and cost Contador a minute and a half on the first stage

    Without that  incident Contador  would have been up there in the gc - about 50 seconds rather than the 2.20 he was down on Schleck and Evans and he would not have been forced to throw away his hang on energy supply by  chasing seconds on hills and descents in the pre alpe stages. He would

    All you've mentioned are a bunch of excuses for what happened during the race and nothing in relation to what I've disagreed with FtP about. In any GT, in any race there are always reasons why people drop out or lose time, that's part and parcel of racing and its never diminished a win[ner] before in any other race so why should it here? Not to mention Alberto was certainly not the worse affected by injuries that happened at that tour amongst favourites. what happened in the race is just excuses.

    What I had/have a problem with is FtP saying that the value of the race win was diminished because of all the stuff leading up to it before that made Contador choose to ride the Tour. To me that's crap because every rider at that Tour had a choice to be there or not, it shouldn't diminish from who won, even if that person that won may not have in different circumstances, but that's all hypothetical can we discuss what if regardless anyway.

    So that's why I disagreed but thanks for the fan post.
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  • The Hitch

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    I really don't understand the point about other riders being more effected by injuries.yes flecha had barbed wire in his leg wiggins broke his collarbone and vino couldnt walk for months. what does that have to do with anything?

    And there definitely is an argument to be made that when the best rider doesn't win the race due to injuries people will always say to themselves "yeah, but" when they see who won that edition.

    Many people won't care yes but many people will too.

    And my post quite clearly did address what you were saying. you said we shouldn't use giro.as an excuse because it was his own choice

    see here

     
    But Contador did race the Tour and did compete, he just had the Giro in his legs, which was his choice, so I still don't follow how last year's Tour is diminished in anyway.

    so if you reject the giro excuse on the basis of- his choice, then if i can prove that something that was not his choice did effect him then that is a valid response by the terms you set above
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  • « Last Edit: June 16, 2012, 14:05 by The Hitch »

    Tuart

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    I really don't understand the point about other riders being more effected by injuries.yes flecha had barbed wire in his leg wiggins broke his collarbone and vino couldnt walk for months. what does that have to do with anything?

    And there definitely is an argument to be made that when the best rider doesn't win the race due to injuries people will always say to themselves "yeah, but" when they see who won that edition.

    You may angrily dismiss it because an ozzie won but like it or not, that's how millions will see it.

    And my post quite clearly did address what you were saying. you said we shouldn't use giro.as an excuse because it was his own choice

    see here

     
    so if you reject the giro excuse on the basis of- his choice, then if i can prove that something that was not his choice did effect him then that is a valid response by the terms you set above


    So why are you picking on this one part of my response, the only sentence that address your list of 99 reasons has nothing to do with anything I actually addressed? I agree, I don't understand either! To me its seems likes your saying the excuses for Contador are valid but not for the rest?  :-\

    Contador did ride the Giro so of course his performance, and everyone else who rode the double, was going to be affected, if you think I'm disputing that your barking up the wrong tree. Just it was his choice to do that, for whatever reason, just like for whatever reason people decide to choose which races they want to go for instead of other, so why should that demeanWHOEVER THE flip won and have that victory be dismissed as an inferior just because someone else came into the race too tired? That's a ridiculous statement and leads to whole other cans of worms, to me its illogical.

    I did think about ending with regardless of who won it, even if it was Andy (was quite possible) or everyone's favourite attacker LL (hypothetical extreme to make the point) but I didn't, I guess I gave your reputation as a smart poster too much credit, clearly your thinking is affected by subjective views on one of the riders so you think everyone else is the same. Really can't be bothered with anymore of these straw man arguments, unless you want to actual discuss what I actually disagreed with originally.
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  • The Hitch

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    So why are you picking on this one part of my response, the only sentence that address your list of 99 reasons has nothing to do with anything I actually addressed? I agree, I don't understand either! To me its seems likes your saying the excuses for Contador are valid but not for the rest?  :-\

    Contador did ride the Giro so of course his performance, and everyone else who rode the double, was going to be affected, if you think I'm disputing that your barking up the wrong tree. Just it was his choice to do that, for whatever reason, just like for whatever reason people decide to choose which races they want to go for instead of other, so why should that demeanWHOEVER THE flip won and have that victory be dismissed as an inferior just because someone else came into the race too tired? That's a ridiculous statement and leads to whole other cans of worms, to me its illogical.



    Its really confusing why you keep attacking me for saying the Giro ruined Contadors chances when i am trying as hard as i can to shout wave and even mime  that the Giro does not matter

     i have deliberately  dismissed the giro.

    It was the very first thing i said.
    Quote
    Ok so lets ignore the Giro.

    And you keep coming back at me with this "why should it matter that he did the Giro". :-X :-X :-X

    You are arguing with yourself im afraid.

    Ill write my post again for the third time.

    You keep saying it was his choice

    Quote
    Just it was his choice to do that
    Quote
    But Contador did race the Tour and did compete, he just had the Giro in his legs, which was his choice

    And i keep telling you - fair enough that was his choice, you can have that. Forget the Giro. THe Giro does not matter, it was Contadors choice to do it and he did it.

    What does matter are the injuries. the injuries that destroyed Contador's tour and prevented him from challenging.

    And the injuries, which, once again were not his choice (and therefore counter your whole free will argument ) are why, whether you like it or not, people will look at that result and say, well it would have been different had the best rider been on form.

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  • Slow Rider

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    May not be his own choice, but was his own fault. You can ask questions with pretty much every Tour victory:
    2006 - What if Landis hadn't been caught? What if they hadn't let Pereiro go in the break? He obviously wasn't the strongest that Tour, so he doesn't deserve to win right? What if Basso and Ulrich had been there?
    2007 - Quite obviously: Rasmussen. But also, like the year before, what if Basso and Ulrich had been there? They were of course suspended by their own fault, but Contador was as involved in those doping cases as anyone, so by any account he should have been suspended too.
    2008 - What if Astana had been allowed in?
    2009 - Don't think I can make anything up here. Contador was just by far the strongest.
    2010 - What if Schleck didn't have that mechanical? What if Contador hadn't doped?
    2011 - What if Contador hadn't tumbled? What if Schleck had a brain? What if Wiggins hadn't crashed?
    2012 - What if Contador wouldn't have been suspended?

    Do you honestly think about any of these things when looking through the recent Tour victories? I know I don't. Sastre was one of the most deserved Tour victors in recent years, and I couldn't care less Contador wasn't there to challenge him for it.

    And for the 2011 Tour you can ask so many questions. Contador's crash, Sanchez losing time, Wiggins crashing out, Andy being an idiot, etc. But how come all those riders crashed or lost time while Evans didn't? Because Evans did everything right. He made sure he was safe at the head of the peloton at all times, making his team work to keep him out of trouble. That is what won Evans the Tour, something he did with his team. There is always some luck involved, but unlike for instance Contador, Evans worked to minimise the risks and he won because of that.
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  • just some guy

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    Folks just a reminder doping talk in the doping section, there is a Contador thread already for future doping discussions.
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  • Flo

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    So if I'm correct 11 people think Alberto is at least kind of awesome. 4 think he is very awesome. And 9 think he is not awesome and 3 hate him. :o Probably benotti and also byop and ram because they are stupid trolls. In reality byop and ram love Alberto.
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  • flicker2.0

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    So if I'm correct 11 people think Alberto is at least kind of awesome. 4 think he is very awesome. And 9 think he is not awesome and 3 hate him. :o Probably benotti and also byop and ram because they are stupid trolls. In reality byop and ram love Alberto.

    Alberto is awesome. I wouldn't fawn all over him though as it might upset his beautiful wife Macrena. Macrena is awesome too. Alberto, you are one lucky hombre!  :wave
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  • Havetts

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    So if I'm correct 11 people think Alberto is at least kind of awesome. 4 think he is very awesome. And 9 think he is not awesome and 3 hate him. :o Probably benotti and also byop and ram because they are stupid trolls. In reality byop and ram love Alberto.

    I dont think you can blame people for their opinions on your favorite rider, I mean I myself dont dislike "insert x person" because they dont like my favorite rider. I have voted "kind of awesome" because of there not being a neutral opinion, cause I both appreciate and dislike Contador.

    I like Contador's attacks and racing attitude. Dislike his past and him being involved in certain darker areas in the sport, his "please-dont-dislike-me-heres-a-stage-win-attitude".

    But if you start an inquisition on people just because they vote "I dont like him" then people will obviously vote that to bait you out, or just because they generally dislike him. You can not crucify people for their what they do and dont like.
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  • ram

    I'd like to think of myself as a quasi intelligent troll, obviously the rest of the world sees me as a dribbling mess of a troll who sticks his finger up his nose while picking his earwax.

    I only voted not awesome at all 8) Also think that I made clear the position.
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  • Flo

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    You are correct about one thing Flo, I am a 'stupid troll' but I voted for not awesome at all, the only things I hate are Nazi's, oh and cycling!

    Woops I'm sorry.  ;D
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  • Flo

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    Alberto is awesome. I wouldn't fawn all over him though as it might upset his beautiful wife Macrena. Macrena is awesome too. Alberto, you are one lucky hombre!  :wave

    Lol flicker ;D

    Btw her name is Macarena. :D
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  • Flo

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    I dont think you can blame people for their opinions on your favorite rider, I mean I myself dont dislike "insert x person" because they dont like my favorite rider. I have voted "kind of awesome" because of there not being a neutral opinion, cause I both appreciate and dislike Contador.

    I like Contador's attacks and racing attitude. Dislike his past and him being involved in certain darker areas in the sport, his "please-dont-dislike-me-heres-a-stage-win-attitude".

    But if you start an inquisition on people just because they vote "I dont like him" then people will obviously vote that to bait you out, or just because they generally dislike him. You can not crucify people for their what they do and dont like.

    Pff and of course Havy has to be all serious 8)  8)
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  • Flo

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    I'd like to think of myself as a quasi intelligent troll, obviously the rest of the world sees me as a dribbling mess of a troll who sticks his finger up his nose while picking his earwax.

    I only voted not awesome at all 8) Also think that I made clear the position.

    Your words. I never said anything like that.

    Anyway. Do we need Tony to investigate who voted the last option?
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  • ram

    Nah, just read and extrapolated.

    Mind, I wanted multiple choice so I could vote that I hate him.
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  • Flo

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    Nah, just read and extrapolated.

    Mind, I wanted multiple choice so I could vote that I hate him.

    Oh yeah now I remember :D
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  • Havetts

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    Pff and of course Havy has to be all serious 8)  8)

    Yep thats me.. :( ;)
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  • Flo

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    "Several of those who backed Contador last year are being saved for the Vuelta a España, where they will support the Spaniard as he aims to win that race for the second time in his career."


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  • DinZ

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    Ivoted awsome purely based on last years giro. Which was pretty awesome.
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  • Flo

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    Ivoted awsome purely based on last years giro. Which was pretty awesome.

    Awesome 8)
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