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vayerism

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Re: Meldonium
« Reply #120 on: March 16, 2016, 13:25 »
Seeing as I was one of the one's suggesting the removal of the team doctor. Allow me a retort

1. Emergency care is obviously not part of that consideration, races have doctors, so do hospitals (if its a training ride).
2. The team will have information relating to existing conditions and contra indications. The sharing of that information is also made public through making TUE's public.
3. The conversation narrowed in essence to force majeure. So we need to cover 1% of events, which is fine, nice and easy, the team keep a medical file on record, better yet, the UCI keep a medical record on file, so in cases of emergency this is shared with the treating doctor.


That in essence limits the use of prescription drugs (previous exceptions notes) on a day to day basis, while still allowing emergency care and provides a centralised care model free from team, or UCI influence. It supports transparency of treatment and makes the athlete accountable, which they should be.
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  • Drummer Boy

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    Re: Meldonium
    « Reply #121 on: March 16, 2016, 13:39 »
    https://twitter.com/OlympicStatman/status/710055053399293952

    Interesting responses in that twitter thread.

    Also, gotta love the translation of this paragraph:
    Quote
    It should be noted that since January 2016 onwards in Germany Act came into force, according to which the violation of anti-doping rules provides for the deprivation of liberty of up to three years for athletes, as well as up to ten years for doctors and others.
    Yes, that would be one way of putting it.  :D
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  • just some guy

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    Of course, if this turns out someday to be the industry standard integrated handlebar-computer-braking solution then I'll eat my kevlar-reinforced aerodynamic hat.

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    just some guy

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    Re: Meldonium
    « Reply #125 on: April 06, 2016, 12:25 »
    https://twitter.com/rusada_russia/status/717672828515008512

    WADA taking a hammering

    And Rio looking dodgy by the minute
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  • cj2002

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    Re: Meldonium
    « Reply #126 on: April 06, 2016, 12:48 »
    https://twitter.com/kristenworley/status/717663779388043264

    so much bias in that

    Aside from anything else, since when was WADA supposed to be serving athletes. If anything, the place of the anti-doping agencies is to protect sport from cheats, and thus they are serving us, as fans and spectators.

    The rest of that article is pretty much bullsh*t. How are WADA supposed to provide a dossier of evidence in support of every substance they ban? If one of the criteria is "health risk" (to the athlete), we would need 30-year, longitudinal studies, monitoring users and tracking long term health effects.

    More pertinently, we would need people either to volunteer to take these substances, or own up to already taking them. At that point, the loop of logic falls in on itself.

    Evidence - or even reasonable suspicion - that a currently-legal substance is being used by a number of athletes because it is believed/perceived to give a performance gain is all WADA should need to add a substance to the banned list.
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  • He shook his head sadly and told me that endemic drug use had compelled him to give up a promising career. "Even one small local race, prize was a salami, and I see doping!" - Tim Moore: Gironimo (Riding the Very Terrible 1914 Tour of Italy)

    just some guy

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    Re: Meldonium
    « Reply #127 on: April 06, 2016, 13:18 »
    Agree CJ well put

    This could be the real watershed moment for WADA
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    Re: Meldonium
    « Reply #128 on: April 06, 2016, 13:24 »
    130 athletes being caught for taking anti-ischemia medication is probably enough proof that it's performance enhancing.

    the potential issue of the pharmacological half-life time is something that needs to be taken care of of course - but how else is this supposed to work? I can't think of an solution, there needs to be some kind of fixed date
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    Re: Meldonium
    « Reply #130 on: April 13, 2016, 08:35 »
    https://twitter.com/AP_Sports/status/720152808880803841  and there was another couple yesterday

    I assume we must be getting close to 200 Positives
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    Re: Meldonium
    « Reply #131 on: April 13, 2016, 11:40 »
    https://twitter.com/rtsportnews/status/720192530516688896

    and here is the expected news Too many positives of 1 drug will bring CAS and WADA to its kness so easier just to say of we start from Jan 1st 2017
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  • Carlo Algatrensig

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    Re: Meldonium
    « Reply #132 on: April 13, 2016, 21:24 »
    https://twitter.com/rtsportnews/status/720192530516688896

    and here is the expected news Too many positives of 1 drug will bring CAS and WADA to its kness so easier just to say of we start from Jan 1st 2017

    WADA say it isn't an amnesty but it is and they shouldn't be doing it. What happens when they release the updated list this October. People who see that their substance of choice has been banned but carry on taking it anyway and just point to the Meldonium cases and say "You cant ban me, I didnt read my emails. See what you did last year".
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    Re: Meldonium
    « Reply #133 on: April 13, 2016, 21:42 »
    yeah, they should all get their flipin four years, and that's it, no matter if it turn out to be 1000 or 10000 positives. The more, the better
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  • AG

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    Re: Meldonium
    « Reply #134 on: April 16, 2016, 01:27 »
    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/14/sports/wada-meldonium-drug-testing.html?_r=1

    so from what I understand WADA are doing a kind of 'half back down'


    they are saying "well its possible that the substance stays in the body longer than we thought - so if you tested positive early on, and your levels were low enough, we will consider a no-fault defence as its possible that the result is because you took the drug prior to 1 Jan"

    Apparantly this will not apply to Sharapova though as either her levels werent low enough - or the fact that she admitted to taking the drug after 1 January will count against her  :lol
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    Re: Meldonium
    « Reply #136 on: May 09, 2016, 19:08 »
    Going to be a lot of these next months
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  • AG

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    Re: Meldonium
    « Reply #137 on: June 09, 2016, 12:08 »
    http://www.watoday.com.au/sport/tennis/maria-sharapova-given-two-year-ban-after-failing-meldonium-drug-test-20160608-gpeuda.html

    well - the ITF have banned her for 2 years   ...   so obviously either the levels in her blood were more than just leftover from prior to 1 Jan, or they took into account that she confessed to using it in January.

    (for those who cant be assed reading back - WADA are half backing down saying they cant prove how long it takes to break down and be completely out of their system so from Jan - March, those with very small amounts will be let off)


    Sharapova though is a complete idiot  - and is now complaining that the sanction is way too harsh and is talking about appealing the sanction.   Not the verdict, but that it shouldnt be 2 years.

    :fp


    seriously - does she understand the WADA code at all?    that it doesnt matter if it was intentional or not ... if she is guilty she gets 2 years ...
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  • LukasCPH

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    Re: Meldonium
    « Reply #138 on: June 09, 2016, 12:41 »
    seriously - does she understand the WADA code at all?    that it doesnt matter if it was intentional or not ... if she is guilty she gets 2 years ...
    No, she doesn't. :P
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    Havik

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    Re: Meldonium
    « Reply #139 on: June 09, 2016, 14:18 »
    http://www.watoday.com.au/sport/tennis/maria-sharapova-given-two-year-ban-after-failing-meldonium-drug-test-20160608-gpeuda.html

    well - the ITF have banned her for 2 years   ...   so obviously either the levels in her blood were more than just leftover from prior to 1 Jan, or they took into account that she confessed to using it in January.

    (for those who cant be assed reading back - WADA are half backing down saying they cant prove how long it takes to break down and be completely out of their system so from Jan - March, those with very small amounts will be let off)


    Sharapova though is a complete idiot  - and is now complaining that the sanction is way too harsh and is talking about appealing the sanction.   Not the verdict, but that it shouldnt be 2 years.

    :fp


    seriously - does she understand the WADA code at all?    that it doesnt matter if it was intentional or not ... if she is guilty she gets 2 years ...

    The full decision in her case is online (pdf).

    Sharapova admitted to taking meldonium before every game at the Australian Open. Her positive test came on January 26th, right after one of those games. So even if she hadn't admitted to taking the drug, the levels in her sample would've been much too high to plausibly claim that she hadn't used meldonium since it was banned.

    WADA's notice on meldonium recommends that sports authorities proceed with result management if the athlete admitted to using the drug after Jan 1st, but also if the concentration in the sample indicates recent use, so she would've been in trouble either way.

    Intent does matter, however. The WADA code now says:
    Quote
    10.2.1 The period of Ineligibility shall be four years
    where:
    10.2.1.1 The anti-doping rule violation does not
    involve a Specified Substance [H: meldonium indeed isn't a specified substance],
    unless the Athlete or other Person can establish
    that the anti-doping rule violation was
    not intentional.
    [...]
    10.2.2 If Article 10.2.1 does not apply, the period of
    Ineligibility shall be two years.

    Sharapova avoided a four year ban because the tribunal in her case accepted that her rule violation wasn't intentional. If the tribunal had decided that Sharapova wasn't guilty of significant fault or negligence, then her sanction could've been halved to one year under article 10.5.2 of the WADA code.
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  • « Last Edit: June 09, 2016, 14:52 by Havik »

    AG

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    Re: Meldonium
    « Reply #140 on: June 09, 2016, 14:22 »
    from her facebook page

    Quote
    Today with their decision of a two year suspension, the ITF tribunal unanimously concluded that what I did was not intentional. The tribunal found that I did not seek treatment from my doctor for the purpose of obtaining a performance enhancing substance. The ITF spent tremendous amounts of time and resources trying to prove I intentionally violated the anti-doping rules and the tribunal concluded I did not. You need to know that the ITF asked the tribunal to suspend me for four years – the required suspension for an intentional violation -- and the tribunal rejected the ITF’s position.

    While the tribunal concluded correctly that I did not intentionally violate the anti-doping rules, I cannot accept an unfairly harsh two-year suspension. The tribunal, whose members were selected by the ITF, agreed that I did not do anything intentionally wrong, yet they seek to keep me from playing tennis for two years. I will immediately appeal the suspension portion of this ruling to CAS, the Court of Arbitration for Spor

    so yes you are perfectly correct (I had forgotten that the new 4 yr penalty clause comes into it) - she was facing 4 years if found guilty of intentionally taking it.

    But her claim that the 2 year ban is unduly harsh is what I was laughing at.

    seriously - she is appealing the suspension portion because she thinks its too long  :fp   
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  • Carlo Algatrensig

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    Re: Meldonium
    « Reply #141 on: June 09, 2016, 17:01 »
    from her facebook page

    so yes you are perfectly correct (I had forgotten that the new 4 yr penalty clause comes into it) - she was facing 4 years if found guilty of intentionally taking it.

    But her claim that the 2 year ban is unduly harsh is what I was laughing at.

    seriously - she is appealing the suspension portion because she thinks its too long  :fp

    Sounds Like WADA will be appealing it to try and have it increased to 4 years so could be an interesting one for CAS to decide.

    I think Sharapovas appeal is completely pointless and almost comes across as if she's thinking "Don't they know who I am, I've millions of fans who are really upset that I can't play"
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  • LukasCPH

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    Re: Meldonium
    « Reply #142 on: June 09, 2016, 17:06 »
    I think Sharapovas appeal is completely pointless and almost comes across as if she's thinking "Don't they know who I am, I've millions of fans who are really upset that I can't play"
    You can be sure that she's thinking that!
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  • AG

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    Re: Meldonium
    « Reply #143 on: June 10, 2016, 00:30 »
    actually it would be an interesting case for intentional.


    The definition of intent would be kind of interesting.    She definitely intended to take Meldonium - it was not contamination or accidental ingestion of any kind.   She deliberately and purposely took the drug.

    I do believe that she didnt know that it was added to the banned list ... (and have no real sympathy, its her own fault) ... but the rules say if it was intentional she should get 4 years.


    Obviously the panel threw out the intent bit - and to be honest after the shmozzle that Meldonium is I dont think WADA have the stomach for an appeal on this one - but it would be interesting.
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  • Carlo Algatrensig

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    Re: Meldonium
    « Reply #144 on: June 10, 2016, 00:57 »

    I do believe that she didnt know that it was added to the banned list ... (and have no real sympathy, its her own fault) ... but the rules say if it was intentional she should get 4 years.


    It would be interesting to see if it could be argued that she chose/intended to be ignorant of the doping changes and so it was intent by omission rather than comission.
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  • AG

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    Re: Meldonium
    « Reply #145 on: June 10, 2016, 01:24 »
    I actually dont think much of many tennis players.  I generally think tennis has as many drug issues as cycling.

    But my respect for Roger Federer has gone up a little

    Quote
    Roger Federer said he supported a "zero tolerance" stance against doping.

    Sharapova, 29, was provisionally banned in March after testing positive for the heart disease drug meldonium - which became a banned substance on 1 January 2016 - at this year's Australian Open.

    Men's world number three Federer, who has won 17 Grand Slams, added: "It doesn't matter if they did it on purpose or not, I don't really see the difference.

    "You need to know what goes into your body, you have to be 100% sure of what's going on. If you're not, you're going to be damned.

    "Of course she's got the right to fight the case, like everybody else as well. I'm just for zero tolerance.

    "I stay by my word that we should be saving blood samples for 10, 15, 20 years to come, so you have to scare away the people who think they could cheat.

    "You have to scare them so they will not do it, so they could retroactively also be banned, and take away titles and so forth."


    storing samples - and taking away results years later if they test positive  :cool   :cool   :cool
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  • tinlizzy

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    Re: Meldonium
    « Reply #146 on: June 26, 2016, 05:01 »
    Meldonium is just a drug that prevents the heart from damage in case of overload: PART OF INTERVIEW WITH IVAR KALVINS, INVENTOR OF MILDRONATE: http://mildronate.biz/index.php?route=product/category&path=59
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