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Joelsim

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Re: Meldonium
« Reply #30 on: March 08, 2016, 13:39 »
I am going for Yuskov for the next Mello Positivo.

I'm just going for 'ov' or 'ova' as the next positive. And the one after that, and the one after...

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  • Claudio Cappuccino

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    Re: Meldonium
    « Reply #31 on: March 08, 2016, 13:46 »
    I'm just going for 'ov' or 'ova' as the next positive. And the one after that, and the one after...
    Froomov? Coundova?

    What surprises me is the jump Russian speedskating has made, AFTER Sotsji. Or, the Dutch just stopped doping afterwards...
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  • just some guy

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    Re: Meldonium
    « Reply #33 on: March 08, 2016, 14:18 »
    Froomov? Coundova?

    What surprises me is the jump Russian speedskating has made, AFTER Sotsji. Or, the Dutch just stopped doping afterwards...

    Giveova. :D

    In the aftermath of their athletics (we all know it was the only sport getting the old KGB state protection racket  :s) ban, we get dozens of Ruskie positives as their naive and complacent athletes suddenly wake up to the fact that their safety net has been removed.
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  • "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.

    Joelsim

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    Re: Meldonium
    « Reply #34 on: March 08, 2016, 14:39 »
    Giveova. :D

    In the aftermath of their athletics (we all know it was the only sport getting the old KGB state protection racket  :s) ban, we get dozens of Ruskie positives as their naive and complacent athletes suddenly wake up to the fact that their safety net has been removed.

    Yep.

    Coupled with the fact that they are now target testing 17% of them for Meldonium specifically.
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  • cj2002

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    Re: Meldonium
    « Reply #35 on: March 08, 2016, 14:44 »
    Good piece by Tom Fordyce for the BBC. I calculate precisely zero sympathy.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/35754677

    Meanwhile, within the tennis community...

    https://twitter.com/Martina/status/706942552721768449

    Give me strength[1]
     1. Or meldonium, which may/may not have the same effect  :shh
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  • He shook his head sadly and told me that endemic drug use had compelled him to give up a promising career. "Even one small local race, prize was a salami, and I see doping!" - Tim Moore: Gironimo (Riding the Very Terrible 1914 Tour of Italy)

    Joelsim

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    Re: Meldonium
    « Reply #36 on: March 08, 2016, 14:54 »
    Good piece by Tom Fordyce for the BBC. I calculate precisely zero sympathy.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/35754677

    Meanwhile, within the tennis community...

    https://twitter.com/Martina/status/706942552721768449

    Give me strength[1]
     1. Or meldonium, which may/may not have the same effect  :shh

    Agree on the BBC article, and saw Navratilova's tweet last night which left me wanting to bang my head against the wall.

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  • cj2002

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    Re: Meldonium
    « Reply #37 on: March 08, 2016, 14:57 »
    Agree on the BBC article, and saw Navratilova's tweet last night which left me wanting to bang my head against the wall.

    She does appear to have backtracked slightly in subsequent tweets - but it's probably too little too late.
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  • DJW

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    Re: Meldonium
    « Reply #38 on: March 08, 2016, 14:58 »
    Absolutely no sympathy for Sharapova or anyone else who has been taking it for years.

    But it does seem highly political and convenient for WADA to score points by taking out a whole load of Russians who the press are convinved are cheating anyway.

    Having said that, good to see a big name like Sharapova put under considerable pressure.
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  • Joelsim

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    Re: Meldonium
    « Reply #39 on: March 08, 2016, 15:03 »
    Absolutely no sympathy for Sharapova or anyone else who has been taking it for years.

    But it does seem highly political and convenient for WADA to score points by taking out a whole load of Russians who the press are convinved are cheating anyway.

    Having said that, good to see a big name like Sharapova put under considerable pressure.

    The way forward is increasingly targeted testing. It's not rocket science to pick the 17% of Russians who had traces of Meldonium in their blood in 2015 with an early specific Meldonium test in 2016.

    Whether that also benefits the authorites vs the Russians in a 'you have a serious problem so stop trying to deny it' sense is another story.

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  • just some guy

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    Joelsim

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    Claudio Cappuccino

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    Re: Meldonium
    « Reply #42 on: March 08, 2016, 15:16 »
    (we all know it was the only sport getting the old KGB state protection racket  :s)

    I suggest you watch this then:



    How many cyclists will follow Vorganov?
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  • Yellow Peril

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    Re: Meldonium
    « Reply #43 on: March 08, 2016, 16:05 »

    I just find the whole "I didn't know" routine so lame in this day and age.  For Pro sports people/athletes knowing what is and isn't banned is a fundamental part of your job.
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    vayerism

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    Re: Meldonium
    « Reply #44 on: March 08, 2016, 16:17 »
    "not knowing" is actually irrelevant.

    This can end one of three ways

    1. Banned substances taken knowingly
    2. Banned substance taken by accident i.e. she didn't know it was banned not she didn't know she was taking it
    3. Medical record produced for angina/infarction

    1. is doping
    2. is negligence and still doping
    3. is impossible.

    She should be eternally gratefully she got the break the news instead of having the story broken.

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  • LukasCPH

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    Re: Meldonium
    « Reply #45 on: March 08, 2016, 19:53 »
    Feeling sad for all those Russkies with heart problems, next Victor Ahn? The 500 metre speedskater? Zakarin?
    Claudio  :lol
    Would you mind telling me next week's lottery numbers for a 10% share of the winnings? :D
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    DJW

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    Re: Meldonium
    « Reply #46 on: March 08, 2016, 20:09 »
    http://www.bbc.com/sport/tennis/35752114

    Maria Sharapova showed 'courage' over failed drugs test - Serena Williams
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  • Kiwirider

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    Re: Meldonium
    « Reply #47 on: March 08, 2016, 20:51 »
    Meldonium manufacturer saying that the normal dose is 4 - 6 weeks ... repeated up to three times per year and rarely for long periods of time.

    However they then go on to say that they don't see it as a performance enhancer, in part because it interferes with how the body breaks down fatty acids to generate energy.
    Although, immediately before that they say that it would be useful to help prevent cellular damage to prevent muscle damage in overwork situations. Not sure if that's heart muscle only or all muscles - context doesn't make it clear ...

    http://www.lapresse.ca/sports/tennis/201603/08/01-4958453-meldonium-un-traitement-de-4-a-6-semaines-selon-le-manufacturier.php
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  • Kiwirider

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    Re: Meldonium
    « Reply #48 on: March 08, 2016, 20:52 »
    http://www.bbc.com/sport/tennis/35752114

    Maria Sharapova showed 'courage' over failed drugs test - Serena Williams

    That would be the same Serena Williams who has publicly stated that she finds random testing an unreasonable interference with her life and is quite widely and stridently outspoken against drug testing ...

    ,,, so her response hardly surprises ...
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  • Joelsim

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    Re: Meldonium
    « Reply #49 on: March 08, 2016, 21:17 »
    That would be the same Serena Williams who has publicly stated that she finds random testing an unreasonable interference with her life and is quite widely and stridently outspoken against drug testing ...

    ,,, so her response hardly surprises ...

    Both Williams brothers are the same in that respect.

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  • L'arri

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    Re: Meldonium
    « Reply #50 on: March 08, 2016, 22:59 »
    However they then go on to say that they don't see it as a performance enhancer, in part because it interferes with how the body breaks down fatty acids to generate energy.
    Although, immediately before that they say that it would be useful to help prevent cellular damage to prevent muscle damage in overwork situations. Not sure if that's heart muscle only or all muscles - context doesn't make it clear ...

    They've got to be worried now that sales of their wonder product are likely to drop dramatically. :P
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    Drummer Boy

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    Re: Meldonium
    « Reply #51 on: March 08, 2016, 23:02 »
    This thread is on fire!

    Some very interesting points in this article:
    Drug in Sharapova doping case used by Soviet troops in 1980s

    Quote
    Meldonium is a heart medicine that improves blood flow and is little-known in the U.S., but it was once common in the Soviet military.

    The drug's inventor, Ivars Kalvins, told Latvian newspaper Diena in a 2009 interview that meldonium was given to soldiers during the 1980s, when Soviet forces were fighting in Afghanistan.

    "High altitudes. Oxygen deprivation. If they have to run 20 kilometers with all the gear, at the end they would get ischemia (a blood circulation condition)," Kalvins was quoted as saying.

    "They were all given meldonium. They themselves were not aware they were using it.  :o No one was being asked (if they agree to it) back then."

    Quote
    The wave of meldonium cases has echoes of a doping scandal involving another Soviet military drug, bromantan, which was banned after being found in Russian athletes' samples at the 1996 Atlanta Olympics.


    Gotta love the military.  :cool
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  • Claudio Cappuccino

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    Re: Meldonium
    « Reply #52 on: March 09, 2016, 08:50 »
    Must say they ban a lot of dope from the USSR, how about these ones:

    ·         stimulants including: bupropion, caffeine, nicotine, phenylephrine, phenylpropanolamine, pipradrol, and synephrine;
    ·         narcotics including: hydrocodone, mitragynine, morphine/codeine ratio, tapentadol, tramadol;
    ·         glucocorticoids;
    ·         telmisartan;
    ·         meldonium.

    http://blogs.bmj.com/bjsm/2016/03/08/meldonium-use-by-athletes-at-the-baku-2015-european-games-adding-data-to-ms-maria-sharapovas-failed-drug-test-case/

    No, lets just monitor these ones as these are everywhere available...


    Indeed, drugs pay:

    http://www.medindia.net/drug-price/telmisartan.htm
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  • vayerism

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    Re: Meldonium
    « Reply #53 on: March 09, 2016, 09:21 »
    Lots of athletes sharing their views on this, most are largely in defence, with the primary caveat being that it isn't doping until it is banned by WADA.

    So with being considered, I'd be interested to know, to your mind did Sharapova dope for 10 years or since January 1st 2016?
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  • cj2002

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    Re: Meldonium
    « Reply #54 on: March 09, 2016, 09:37 »
    Lots of athletes sharing their views on this, most are largely in defence, with the primary caveat being that it isn't doping until it is banned by WADA.

    So with being considered, I'd be interested to know, to your mind did Sharapova dope for 10 years or since January 1st 2016?

    This is where we get closer to that "grey area", a bit like with tramadol or cortisone.

    I see it like this:
     - since 1/1/16, meldonium has been on the WADA banned list.
     - since 1/1/16, Sharapova took meldonium[1]
     - thus, according to the results of her 2016 drug test, she doped.

     - prior to 2016, Sharapova was taking a drug that was a) not legally available in her country of residence, and b) known to have performance enhancing effects. That's shady... it's unethical[2], but according to the WADA statutes it's not doping, per se.

    Like I say, it's a grey area.

    Incidentally, I've seen various lengths of (reduced) suspension mentioned, but surely under the new WADA code it's an automatic 4 years, right?
     1. Whether or not she knew it was on the banned list is irrelevant
     2. And possibly criminal, depending on how militant the FDA want to be...
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  • vayerism

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    Re: Meldonium
    « Reply #55 on: March 09, 2016, 09:44 »
    That's really interesting, thank you very much.

    To share my thoughts.

    1. She took meldonium for 10 years for no other reason than to enhance performance - that's doping
    2. Until 01-010-16 it wasn't banned - so it wasn't cheating
    3. She continued to take it after it banned - that's cheating and doping.

    I think there needs to be a separation in terms because "doping" is being equated to the WADA prohibited list, which we know is borderline awful.

    I hadn't considered the FDA at all in this, their reaction will be worth a watch.
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  • DB-Coop

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    Re: Meldonium
    « Reply #56 on: March 09, 2016, 09:49 »
    I see it like this:
     - since 1/1/16, meldonium has been on the WADA banned list.
     - since 1/1/16, Sharapova took meldonium[1]
     - thus, according to the results of her 2016 drug test, she doped.
     1. Whether or not she knew it was on the banned list is irrelevant

    From when was the test that she failed, is it early enough that she could claim to be glowing from a huge, and legal, usage on New Years Eve?
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  • cj2002

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    Re: Meldonium
    « Reply #57 on: March 09, 2016, 09:55 »
    From when was the test that she failed, is it early enough that she could claim to be glowing from a huge, and legal, usage on New Years Eve?

    The test was at the Aussie Open, which was mid-to-late January. Any "legal" use in 2015 would be reaching overdose levels for it to still be in her system by then[1].
     1. He says, knowing literally nothing about the pharmacokinetics of the drug
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  • Claudio Cappuccino

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    Re: Meldonium
    « Reply #58 on: March 09, 2016, 10:10 »
    The test was at the Aussie Open, which was mid-to-late January. Any "legal" use in 2015 would be reaching overdose levels for it to still be in her system by then[1].
     1. He says, knowing literally nothing about the pharmacokinetics of the drug

    http://pilarmartinescudero.es/OctNov15/Midronate%20interferencia%20con%20cromatografia.pdf

    Half life for about 6,5 hours...

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  • vayerism

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    Re: Meldonium
    « Reply #59 on: March 09, 2016, 10:11 »
    It could have been an echo positive - given that I cannot handle "I didn't know". I think it's a crock of sh*t.

    But that's conjecture.
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