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mew

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Re: The official Lance Armstrong thread
« Reply #120 on: February 15, 2012, 00:49 »
I had wondered if there was something along those lines going on when I read about the Panama half ironman results.

Leaving aside all nationalistic bias, there is no way in hell that Armstrong should have been dicing with Bevan Docherty for the win in that event - unless he was doped to the eyeballs. I mean, Docherty's got 6 years on him, many more years of tri racing (admittedly Olympic distance, not half ironman) and a sh*t load of medals in the sport to boot.

I know drug testing in ironman has left a lot to be desired (how else does the stereotypical "New York stockbroker" place just outside the times of top pros at Kona and so forth ...), but had thought that they'd improved the case ... although quite clearly with special exemptions for their business partners ...

BTW - on a similar note, has anyone seen coverage of the 2011 Xterra Worlds? That was an equally sickening piece of drugged competition. I mean, the way that Armstrong made the elite in that sport - including Jan Frodeno (current Olympic tri gold medalist) - look like a bunch of amateurs riding with their brakes on was just too ludicrous to be even vaguely clean. I don't honestly know what sickened me more - watching it, or the fact that we got an ESPN feed, so I had to listen to fawning crap from the commentator ...

The irony for me is in the fact that his continued cheating only really goes to show just how empty his world really must be. I mean, his stated purpose was to do these events for fun and for the simple pleasure of a challenge ... Yet he is so shallow that he can't just let himself be and perform at whatever his level really is. I don't know whether this is about greed, needing attention or simply not being able to admit that he has got older/slowed down/lost fitness. Whatever, it is a sad reflection on the character of the person and the obvious emptiness of his life ...

Good post kiwirider....and also above drummerboy...My sentiments exactly!
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  • doolols

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    Re: The official Lance Armstrong thread
    « Reply #121 on: February 15, 2012, 01:27 »
    I mean, his stated purpose was to do these events for fun and for the simple pleasure of a challenge ... Yet he is so shallow that he can't just let himself be and perform at whatever his level really is. I don't know whether this is about greed, needing attention or simply not being able to admit that he has got older/slowed down/lost fitness. Whatever, it is a sad reflection on the character of the person and the obvious emptiness of his life ...

    Greg Lemond coined the term "sociopath" for Armstrong, and when you look up the definition http://www.mcafee.cc/Bin/sb.html you can see our pal ticks a lot of those boxes, in particular the following:
    * Does not perceive that anything is wrong with them
    * Authoritarian
    * Secretive
    * Paranoid
    as well as many others. This perhaps gives an insight. So no, he's not just going to trundle around for the fun of it. He's going to go all out to beat everyone else (by whatever means he feels he needs), and become the 'best' in that sport. We can only guess at what the long term plans are. Someone successful in tri / ironman, and with a persona as large as his, could become a great sponsor magnet.
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  • Drummer Boy

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    Re: The official Lance Armstrong thread
    « Reply #122 on: February 15, 2012, 01:34 »
    So no, he's not just going to trundle around for the fun of it. He's going to go all out to beat everyone else (by whatever means he feels he needs), and become the 'best' in that sport.
    Remember what Floyd had to say about LA's motivation. "It's not about winning, it's about making someone else lose."
    Take the way he snubbed Docherty in Pananma. Did LA think there was something "personal" about another highly-competitive athlete trying his best to win?
    LA takes it as a personal affront. Check the box, another enemy created.
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  • scribe

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    Re: The official Lance Armstrong thread
    « Reply #123 on: February 26, 2012, 03:38 »
    When I watch that finish line video, I don't see any snubbing going on. I see LA as being completely 'gone' from running out of his doped mind. Frankly, at LA's age, I am surprised his body can actually keep up with what his brain and dope are forcing him to do.
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  • just some guy

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    Of course, if this turns out someday to be the industry standard integrated handlebar-computer-braking solution then I'll eat my kevlar-reinforced aerodynamic hat.

    Larri Nov 12, 2014

    benotti69

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    Lance Armstrong appears to suggest he won’t fight expected USADA doping case


    It's a money thing or maybe he & co (weisel etc) have decided to let it happen and it will blow over quicker than fighting it, because it will be a fight they cant win as they must know that USADA have water tight evidence against him. He will dismiss it as the past, French against him etc etc all the old arguments will be rolled out to protect the fanbase, image and whatever did not get damaged by the Fed Investigation.

    It is about as close to admitting doping as we are likely to get from him unless he is threatened with jail in the future due to the Fed case being reopened.

    The sport of TriAthlon/IronMan are welcome to him. I think they wont enjoy his presence soon enough.
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  • "ahaha, ever had the feeling you been cheated?" JL SF Jan'78

    AG

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    Totally agree Beno  :)

    This is the best we will ever get from him.

    It is basically the only way he can walk away from this.  If he fights and loses, people will have proven he doped.  This way, he can say "I didnt do it, but I just couldnt fight anymore, so I accepted their punishment because it doesnt matter. I know I won, I know I didnt do it .. most tested athlete" blah, blah, blah.

    He never has to admit, he says he could have won the case etc ...
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  • Jamsque

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    It's the moral equivalent of saying "You can't fire me, I quit", and a typically petulant move from Lance if true.
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  • benotti69

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    Yeah AG and JAM

    He is getting in ahead and basically saying I fought the Feds and won! not worth fighting anything else if i beat them! This could also be construed as a reverse psychology move trying to get USADA to not bother.

    He fought the law and won because he became the law, Birotte and Fabiani.

    But i still hope USADA go after him and officially sanction him for doping.
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  • The Hitch

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    RR from across the forbidden land says Hog was Subpoenaed  today after flying into the US from London.
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  • Despite the self-serving data benders and associated propaganda to the contrary, I am led to believe that there are pockets of organised, highly sophisticated dopers, even within 'new age' cycling teams. Personally, I don't accept that the 'dark era' has ended, it has just morphed into a new guise.

    just some guy

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    RR from across the forbidden land says Hog was Subpoenaed  today after flying into the US from London.

    big news
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  • AG

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    I am a bit puzzled as to what exactly he has been served with?

    The federal case was dropped, USADA dont have the power to subpoena people.

     :-\
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  • just some guy

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    I am a bit puzzled as to what exactly he has been served with?

    The federal case was dropped, USADA dont have the power to subpoena people.

     :-\

    Race Radio ‏ @TheRaceRadio
    It is too bad Johan had another pressing engagement today that kept him from the ToC press conference
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    The best thing to do when you are in that little room answering questions is to tell the truth

    2h Race Radio ‏ @TheRaceRadio
    Now we know why Johan stayed out of the country for the last two years

    2h Race Radio ‏ @TheRaceRadio
    Of course Johan will just say those Federal agents were troll #trollfacts

    2h Race Radio ‏ @TheRaceRadio
    Poor Johan. That long flight from London only to be served a subpoena as soon as he steps off the plane. Told you it wasn't over :)


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    Hey @johanBruyneel did you like your special greeting today? Welcome to America!

    via RR twitter
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  • just some guy

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    Race Radio ‏ @TheRaceRadio
    It is too bad Johan had another pressing engagement today that kept him from the ToC press conference
    Visa
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    The best thing to do when you are in that little room answering questions is to tell the truth

    2h Race Radio ‏ @TheRaceRadio
    Now we know why Johan stayed out of the country for the last two years

    2h Race Radio ‏ @TheRaceRadio
    Of course Johan will just say those Federal agents were troll #trollfacts

    2h Race Radio ‏ @TheRaceRadio
    Poor Johan. That long flight from London only to be served a subpoena as soon as he steps off the plane. Told you it wasn't over :)


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    Hey @johanBruyneel did you like your special greeting today? Welcome to America!

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    Our ride for the week in @AmgenTourofCali just arrived. @rsnt

    it is a team bus - so ?
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  • benotti69

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    JB lastest

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    Our ride for the week in @AmgenTourofCali just arrived. @rsnt

    it is a team bus - so ?

    Was he just served, which meant he was handed a subpoena piece of paper an explained it's contents and then let go on about his business?
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  • just some guy

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    Was he just served, which meant he was handed a subpoena piece of paper an explained it's contents and then let go on about his business?

    Thats the rumor - but as AG said by whom ?

    Feds - going after the organisation but not Lance

    or using the information to get convictions and having USADA do the work on Lance

    I have no idea - maybe he has a love child and not been paying child support ?
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  • benotti69

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    Thats the rumor - but as AG said by whom ?

    Feds - going after the organisation but not Lance

    or using the information to get convictions and having USADA do the work on Lance

    I have no idea - maybe he has a love child and not been paying child support ?

    Well it certainly will be interesting if it turns out that Armstrong threw Hog under the bus and deflected it all on him.  ;D
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  • AG

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    JB is not a US citizen, so it is fairly unlikely IMO that they would go after him for the stuff they decided not to proceed against Armstrong with.

    Pretty much cuts out the RICO, fraud, drug pedaling, money laundering etc.

    Perhaps simply to do with the whistleblower civil case that Landis has brought?   Maybe to do with the action being bought against Landis? 

    I dont see much in it to be honest

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  • mew

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    just some guy

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    Ah here is some news

    http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/11852/Source-says-Bruyneel-was-served-with-a-subpoena-by-federal-investigators.aspx

    was about to post this with a mew linked to this article somewhere  ::)

    I bet you money that the sourse close to Velonation is Race Radio
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  • doolols

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    Oops. Sorry. Didn't see JSG's post  :-[
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  • benotti69

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    There were a number of agencies involved in the case. Were they all under Novitsky's umbrella investigation or were they doing separate investigations on behalf of Novitsky and remained separate but provided evidence and information?
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  • Thoughtforfood

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    Ah, but is "the source" RR on the CN forum?  :fp

    When it is further confirmed, are you going to go tell him he was right and you were sniffing the wrong butt?  :fp indeed.
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  • "There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil to one who is striking at the root." ~ Thoreau

    doolols

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    When it is further confirmed, are you going to go tell him he was right and you were sniffing the wrong butt?

    I'll wait for that confirmation. RR is notorious for his "coming soon" and "you'll see next Tuesday" type hints. We've been here before, many times.

    I personally hope it is correct, but the one thing we don't know is if it's related directly to Armstrong, or whether it concerns Bruyneel and the team management. If it's to do with the movement of drugs, there's still a possibility of Armstrong distancing himself from it, and dropping Bruyneel in it ("really? I had no idea this was going on. If I'd have known, ...")
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  • Thoughtforfood

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    I'll wait for that confirmation. RR is notorious for his "coming soon" and "you'll see next Tuesday" type hints. We've been here before, many times.

    I personally hope it is correct, but the one thing we don't know is if it's related directly to Armstrong, or whether it concerns Bruyneel and the team management. If it's to do with the movement of drugs, there's still a possibility of Armstrong distancing himself from it, and dropping Bruyneel in it ("really? I had no idea this was going on. If I'd have known, ...")

    You're confusing RR and The Hog.  The number of times RR has been right about things would suggest that he can be trusted on this one.  If it came from The Hog, that is another story.  He is the Tuesday guy.

    As to what it is, nobody really knows.
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  • mew

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    It's the moral equivalent of saying "You can't fire me, I quit", and a typically petulant move from Lance if true.

    Yes Jamsque!
    You summed up very succinctly exactly what I was thinking it felt like.  Pfff...!  disgusting but typical
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  • Drummer Boy

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    So now the new narrative is now being spun to all who will listen. A preemptive maneuver if ever there was one. It will be repeated with nauseating predictability, verbatim, over and over again. "I'm done fighting, blah, blah, blah."

    But what does that really mean? Ummm, you don't get to decide if it's over or not.

    But here's my favorite part of the recent media spin-fest.
    http://content.usatoday.com/communities/gameon/post/2012/05/lance-armstrong-im-done-fighting-drug-allegations/1#.T7MNEGh8vzI
    Quote
    Armstrong also talks of wanting to win the Iron Man championship in the June edition of Men's Journal. And while he always has denied using PEDs he does confess to going on a bender in February, when federal prosecutors dropped an investigation of him that had lasted nearly two years.

    "We just got (expletive) plastered," Armstrong says. "About five of my buddies came over, and we just sat there and got hammered. I don't even remember the night . . . Tequila. Shots. I don't even remember getting to bed. I was that kind of drunk."
    Really? Because that doesn't sound like the reaction of someone who had nothing to worry about and who was totally innocent. I mean, if all those mean liars and profiteers had been so full of it, then why the worries? Not to mention, LA told us over and over again that the investigation didn't affect him. He had a charity to run, other responsibilities, etc. He was immune to it all, wasn't he? Unfazed. So why the all-night bender?

    I also love the inclusion of "about five" of his "buddies." Why was that? Because everything they have in life is a product of his myth as well? What were they losing sleep over? Didn't they trust their "buddy" that he had been telling them the truth all these years? Why all the stress, fellas? Just think about that scene! Didn't LA pretty much just show all his cards with that statement?!?!

    Oh, and the other most recent "tested 500 to 600 times" spiel? I forget, is that more or less than Marion Jones was tested and never failed a test?

    I expect several more "interviews" from people either too dumb or too soft to ask any pertinent follow-up questions. Send in the clowns...
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  • Drummer Boy

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    Lance Armstrong appears to suggest he won’t fight expected USADA doping case
    Read more: http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/11835/Lance-Armstrong-appears-to-suggest-he-wont-fight-expected-USADA-doping-case.aspx#ixzz1uXv3Rwn9

    Of course this little gem is beautiful as well:
    Quote
    “I had days where I thought I was f*cked,” he said
    But...but...but...why would ever think that? Your enemies were all liars and you had always done the right and honorable thing, and had always told the truth, no?  ::)

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  • AG

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    see I have to disagree with you there Drummer Boy.

    I think thats a perfectly normal reaction, whether he is guilty or innocent.

    If you have a grand jury convened to determine whether or not to bring criminal charges against you, have to pay hundreds of thousands in legal costs etc .... whether or not you did it, if those charges are suddenly dropped and you walk away .... celebrating with close friends is a pretty normal reaction.

    Having days when you thought it was going to fall apart ... is pretty normal too. 

    I agree with you about the new narrative and the "Im done fighting" as an excuse.  But I dont think we can read that much in to the celebrations
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