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Of course, if this turns out someday to be the industry standard integrated handlebar-computer-braking solution then I'll eat my kevlar-reinforced aerodynamic hat.

Larri Nov 12, 2014

Flo

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Re: Fancy Bear hack on WADA and the TUE debate
« Reply #91 on: September 24, 2016, 11:21 »
Big Tam :win
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    hiero

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    Re: Fancy Bear hack on WADA and the TUE debate
    « Reply #92 on: September 24, 2016, 12:24 »
    . . . And they add a couple of uncomfortable pics of a swollen-faced Canc.

     . . .

    I recalled last night that this was the sort of treatment that Vaughters famously declined. I wouldn't know dosages off the top of my head (re Canc TUEs), although I could research and find them. But, they seem to me to be the sort of treatment level that most any regular joe wouldn't think twice about doing.  Assuming they were accustomed to Western medicine, and not living somewhere where the annual average income is $6.

    Arguing against myself, I suppose, but more like just kinda thinking about the issue - I do know that even the light levels of steriod applied as an antihistamine do confer some advantage competitively for a week or so. Not huge, but certainly a marginal gain.

    Now, can you imagine a rider at the pro level going out and finding a wasp and intentionally getting stung so that you could go to the ER and get a shot? I don't think I ever knew anybody that warped in the amateur ranks I rode in.

    (Added a few minutes later)
    Just browsed that Dumoulin tweet thread - looks like some very good arguments that Wiggins use of TUEs was abuse, rather than on the up-and-up. I notice all the clips and quotes from Hamilton and Rasmussen - but those guys WERE REALLY abusing the system, and not just the occasional exception. I don't put a lot of faith in them drawing parallels to what goes on today - at least - not those two.

    Anyway, I'm going to sit back and see how this all winds itself out. 
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  • « Last Edit: September 24, 2016, 12:40 by hiero »
    Ubi est ignis

    Mellow Velo

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    Re: Fancy Bear hack on WADA and the TUE debate
    « Reply #93 on: September 24, 2016, 14:19 »
    https://twitter.com/Spitinthesoup/status/779598760016023552

     Obviously Dumoulin is deeply suspicious about tall time trialists being able to compete in the big mountains of a GT, with the smaller climbers, without resorting to the dodgy stuff. :D
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  • "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.

    hiero

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    Re: Fancy Bear hack on WADA and the TUE debate
    « Reply #94 on: September 24, 2016, 16:56 »
    Don't know what the interview says, but just got a link to this in my email. Thot I would share if you have not seen it.
    https://twitter.com/offtheball/status/778502790020681728

    I've got to hit the road, won't be back till next week. Can't listen myself ATM.
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  • Joelsim

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    Re: Fancy Bear hack on WADA and the TUE debate
    « Reply #95 on: September 24, 2016, 20:09 »
    Wiggins has some questions to answer no doubt. I agree with Dumoulin.

    I have to draw the line on listening to Ross Tucker though, he's a moron.
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  • just some guy

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    Re: Fancy Bear hack on WADA and the TUE debate
    « Reply #97 on: September 25, 2016, 06:57 »
    Obviously Dumoulin is deeply suspicious about tall time trialists being able to compete in the big mountains of a GT, with the smaller climbers, without resorting to the dodgy stuff. :D

    yes and the ait is all a Russian smoke screen defense of Sky  ;)

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  • just some guy

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    al_pacino

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    Re: Fancy Bear hack on WADA and the TUE debate
    « Reply #99 on: September 25, 2016, 12:01 »
    Wow Wiggo admits to using for doping purpose

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/cycling/2016/09/25/sir-bradleywigginss-tue-use-stinks-says-rival-as-briton-tells-an/

    Not quite how it came across in the interview. There were a few times when he looked a tad shifty(understatement) but he was saying more the injections were getting him back to 100% from "illness" rather than going beyond that.
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  • just some guy

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    Re: Fancy Bear hack on WADA and the TUE debate
    « Reply #100 on: September 25, 2016, 12:25 »
    Not quite how it came across in the interview. There were a few times when he looked a tad shifty(understatement) but he was saying more the injections were getting him back to 100% from "illness" rather than going beyond that.

    sure but he also said in his book he wasn´t sick only once or twice

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  • Kiwirider

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    Re: Fancy Bear hack on WADA and the TUE debate
    « Reply #101 on: September 25, 2016, 14:51 »
    Chicken's statement over on CN (which for some reason I can't cut from the text and paste here) is mind boggling.

    I mean, if he can lose a couple of kilos from taking triamcinolone, imagine the impact it's having on a "normal weight rider" like Wiggins ...??!!!   :o :o

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/wiggins-tue-under-scrutiny-before-sunday-morning-interview/
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  • Bronstein

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    Re: Fancy Bear hack on WADA and the TUE debate
    « Reply #102 on: September 25, 2016, 14:58 »
    Obviously Dumoulin is deeply suspicious about tall time trialists being able to compete in the big mountains of a GT, with the smaller climbers, without resorting to the dodgy stuff. :D

     :S

    What has any of that got to do with TUEs?
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  • just some guy

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    Mellow Velo

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    Re: Fancy Bear hack on WADA and the TUE debate
    « Reply #104 on: September 25, 2016, 18:39 »
    :S

    What has any of that got to do with TUEs?

     I'll give you a clue. It was a joke. Nothing more.
    Feel free to ignore it as others have.
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  • hiero

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    Re: Fancy Bear hack on WADA and the TUE debate
    « Reply #105 on: September 26, 2016, 03:03 »
    BTW: if we are going to quote Vaughters, I suggest that every reader of this thread go read JV's tweets on this topic.
    https://twitter.com/Vaughters

    Quite frankly, IMO, he comes off almost pro-Wiggo on this. And JV unquestionably has expertise.
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  • Bronstein

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    Re: Fancy Bear hack on WADA and the TUE debate
    « Reply #106 on: September 26, 2016, 03:53 »
    I'll give you a clue. It was a joke. Nothing more.
    Feel free to ignore it as others have.

    More like a thinly veiled potshot at Dumoulin for having the nerve to call out Wiggins. Just a tad hypocritical given that you think Wiggins is clean.
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  • Mellow Velo

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    Re: Fancy Bear hack on WADA and the TUE debate
    « Reply #107 on: September 26, 2016, 07:56 »
    More like a thinly veiled potshot at Dumoulin for having the nerve to call out Wiggins. Just a tad hypocritical given that you think Wiggins is clean.

     The trouble with folks who think they know all the answers, is that sometimes they are wrong.
    Anyhow, I'll leave it there and allow you to have the last word, since this is not contributing to the thread.

    Apologies to anybody else who didn't appreciate the joke.
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    Re: Fancy Bear hack on WADA and the TUE debate
    « Reply #108 on: September 26, 2016, 09:38 »
    this doesn't really fit here, as it's more about Kimmage's personal relationship and opinion on David Walsh's work in the matter Team Sky in general, and not about the TUE issue in particular - but still an interesting read...

    https://www.balls.ie/cycling/paul-kimmage-and-david-walsh/347242

    some part that is about Wiggins though...

    Quote
    "History is written by the winners. So if you turn back the clock to Bradley Wiggins' Tour de France win, which is essentially what this story is about, it's Bradley Wiggins winning that tour and getting that TUE, at a time when he was in superb form. [...]

    So you've got the chief sports writer of the Sunday Times, you've got Bradley Wiggins - the first Briton in history to win the race - and the chief sports writer of the Sunday Times is not on the race.

    My belief is that there were legitimate questions that needed to be asked of Bradley Wiggins after that race, the same questions that David had asked of Lance Armstrong and everybody else. There was a difference. Lance Armstrong was American. We had both suffered at the paper as a result of trying to expose Lance Armstrong at the paper, and at that time, in July 2012, Lance Armstrong was still a hero, he had not been brought down."
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  • "If this is cycling, I am a banana"

    just some guy

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    Re: Fancy Bear hack on WADA and the TUE debate
    « Reply #110 on: September 26, 2016, 10:34 »
    Well, it had better be good. He's had long enough to write it...
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  • vayerism

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    Re: Fancy Bear hack on WADA and the TUE debate
    « Reply #111 on: September 26, 2016, 12:59 »
    It's over for Sky, they have further leaks hanging over their heads, if they move today and try to diminish it. and then more files are released which show further use of corto before key races. They are FUBARED, they have no moves left. They can't go after Wiggins, because he can end them, and they can't just let it go



    In short

    Fancy bears win.
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  • just some guy

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    just some guy

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    hiero

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    Re: Fancy Bear hack on WADA and the TUE debate
    « Reply #114 on: September 26, 2016, 17:33 »
    Wiggins has some questions to answer no doubt. I agree with Dumoulin.

    I have to draw the line on listening to Ross Tucker though, he's a moron.

    There are moments when you can be a funny man!   :lol

    https://www.twitter.com/Velorooms/status/780442649002184704?p=v
    Yeup. Now we've heard the reasoning, but it sounds so much like the mental justification that we've heard from the worst of the offenders - "just wanted a level playing field". Right. I am sure they believe this to be true in this case. I think it is an unfortunate public stumble, and not entirely above disparagement for ethics.
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  • hiero

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    Re: Fancy Bear hack on WADA and the TUE debate
    « Reply #115 on: September 26, 2016, 17:48 »
    More like a thinly veiled potshot at Dumoulin for having the nerve to call out Wiggins. Just a tad hypocritical given that you think Wiggins is clean.

    If you want my opinion on the matter, you are making a tempest in a teapot. I happen to be a Dumoulin fan, and I think calling Dumoulin out is still validated in this case. I could understand an objection, should MV have gone on about the topic, but as MV's post was rather understated to begin with, it seems to me your objections appear more defensive and less justified. He got in one, you got in one, good time to drop it.

    It's over for Sky, they have further leaks hanging over their heads, if they move today and try to diminish it. and then more files are released which show further use of corto before key races. They are FUBARED, they have no moves left. They can't go after Wiggins, because he can end them, and they can't just let it go



    In short

    Fancy bears win.

    Are you serious? Hardly. It seems to me that Fancy Bears, (Apt29B, wasn't it?) have quite lost. At least insofar as their objectives. I will say they HAVE accomplished something that, in retrospect, is an excellent blow in favor of the anti-doping battle: transparency. The UCI or WADA should learn a lessan, and make the TUEs so open ALL the time. It certainly leaves a lot less room for doubt to grow.
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  • Mellow Velo

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    Re: Fancy Bear hack on WADA and the TUE debate
    « Reply #116 on: September 26, 2016, 17:49 »

    http://news.sky.com/story/team-sky-100-clean-amid-wiggins-controversy-10594490

    Quote
    Team Sky will in future reveal all cases where its riders have been given permission to use banned substances for medical purposes.

    Team principal Sir Dave Brailsford revealed the change of policy as he offered a robust defence of the decision to seek three Therapeutic Use Exemptions (TUEs) for Sir Bradley to be injected with the corticosteroid triamcinolone in 2011, 2012 and 2013.

    The TUE records were revealed in a leak of hacked data obtained from a World Anti-Doping Agency database by a Russian hacking organisation calling itself Fancy Bears.

    Sir Dave revealed that Team Sky has received 13 TUEs since its foundation in 2010, but in future they will make any future applications public with the consent of the rider.

    He also suggested they might consider withdrawing any rider who was not willing to allow their medical details to be released in order to restore confidence in the system.
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  • just some guy

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    Re: Fancy Bear hack on WADA and the TUE debate
    « Reply #118 on: September 26, 2016, 21:33 »
    https://www.instagram.com/p/BK1PKpKgHGL/?taken-by=olegtinkov&hl=en

    Quote
    I don't understand why people are so negative and jealous, in general? I don't believe team #Sky could ever had any organized doling program. It is impossible in the modern cycling.Period. I have been a principal of the cycling teams for over 6 seasons and never ever my rider was involve with doping❗️ These days are over. @lancearmstrong and some #Astana riders probably were the last who cheat systematically and organized. Some even paid to Kolobnev and perhaps to Uran to win the races 🙉. Cycling is better than you think, sure there are some cavity like I just said, but I trust #brailsford #Wiggins and #Froome and I don't have to, since I probably even will never met them again. 🚴🏽🚴🏽🚴🏽

    does he seriously claim Tinkoff Credit Systems was not a doping team there?! :lol
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  • LukasCPH

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    Re: Fancy Bear hack on WADA and the TUE debate
    « Reply #119 on: September 26, 2016, 22:04 »
    does he seriously claim Tinkoff Credit Systems was not a doping team there?! :lol
    Eh, Oleg is Oleg. He can claim anything he wants.

    Besides, TCS wasn't a doping team - it were the individual riders who did the doping. :shh
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