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AG

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Re: De Ronde van Vlaanderen
« Reply #30 on: April 02, 2017, 16:36 »
I dont think even in his dreams he imagined a 50+km solo to win RvV ....    :lol
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  • Mellow Velo

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    Re: De Ronde van Vlaanderen
    « Reply #31 on: April 02, 2017, 16:44 »
    Not the day for Sagan's famous bike handling skills to take the day off.

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  • "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.

    t-72

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    Re: De Ronde van Vlaanderen
    « Reply #32 on: April 02, 2017, 16:47 »
    My theory is he wanted to prove Greg van Avermaet can't pull off the same tricks as he did in Roubaix last year.  :D



    Sagan still ahead on this!  :cool
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  • Echoes

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    Re: De Ronde van Vlaanderen
    « Reply #33 on: April 02, 2017, 18:02 »
    Tremendous scene here. A race that will certainly go down in the history as one of the greatest races of all time. I have seen some amazing achievement in 28 years of watching cycling but this is unbelievable. Say that in his prime I thought that Phil was the man for the short explosive efforts. I'm glad to say he proved me wrong. Of course he did that twice in the Omloop when racing for Madiot but that was with a somewhat depleted field. This is an incredible achievement. I'm speechless. As much as I like Van Avermaet in the end I just hoped that Phil could finish it off while it was close. Hope you've all enjoyed it folks !!! (others than AG because I don't doubt she did.  :lol) Over 80km in breakaway and 50+ solo. I don't know if Cancellara ever did that, not even on Paris-Roubaix where it's more doable.


    By the way, something for Flo, Rosa did not invent dismounting on the finish line as victory celebration it was Filippo Simeoni back at the Tour of Spain in the nineties and it often happens in cyclocross. Styby did it when he won Diegem 2008.  ;)


    (at 38.24)

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  • "Paris-Roubaix is the biggest cycling race in the world, bigger than the Tour de France, bigger than any other bike race" (Sir Bradley Wiggins)

    Yellow Peril

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    Re: De Ronde van Vlaanderen
    « Reply #34 on: April 02, 2017, 21:15 »
    That was an outstanding edition of RVV. What a ride by Gilbert! He is certainly the renaissance man of the year. Some bizarrre incidents but that didn't detract from his victory. I have to say I always had him down as an Ardennes man. How wrong was I???

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  • Giving my view on life, cycling and the desire to do a sub 26min 10mTT on the Isle of Man @JaunePeril

    hiero

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    Re: De Ronde van Vlaanderen
    « Reply #35 on: April 03, 2017, 01:00 »
    Most boring RvV I have watched :P He was just too strong!

    What weight oil do you run in your veins? 90 weight gear oil?

    I came on tho, to make an observation. I did not realize it when I was watching it happen - but Boonen and Gilbert are both Quick-Step. Guess who was right behind Gilbert when he made the split on the Oude Kwaremont?? Boonen, and I guess Trentin. I'm thinking that they at least in part, made a conscious decision to let him go. Same team. Works for Boonen, also - he sits in with the other strong men in case that comes back together. It didn't work out quite that way - but that's why they went with PG off the front so early. Quick-Step covered their bets right there. PG made a massive, historic, and beautiful effort - and I'm thinking he owes a large chapeau to his team for setting it up, including Boonen. Boonen set it all up on the Muur, too. Wow. What a race. And what teamwork! And what FATE! This was like all the old gods decided to come back to action today and meddle with Fate. You couldn't write a movie script this good.
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  • Eeyore sez . . .

    AG

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    Re: De Ronde van Vlaanderen
    « Reply #36 on: April 03, 2017, 02:07 »
    What weight oil do you run in your veins? 90 weight gear oil?

    I came on tho, to make an observation. I did not realize it when I was watching it happen - but Boonen and Gilbert are both Quick-Step. Guess who was right behind Gilbert when he made the split on the Oude Kwaremont?? Boonen, and I guess Trentin. I'm thinking that they at least in part, made a conscious decision to let him go. Same team. Works for Boonen, also - he sits in with the other strong men in case that comes back together. It didn't work out quite that way - but that's why they went with PG off the front so early. Quick-Step covered their bets right there. PG made a massive, historic, and beautiful effort - and I'm thinking he owes a large chapeau to his team for setting it up, including Boonen. Boonen set it all up on the Muur, too. Wow. What a race. And what teamwork! And what FATE! This was like all the old gods decided to come back to action today and meddle with Fate. You couldn't write a movie script this good.

    in the interview after Phil said he had said to Boonen that he would ride for him.   that he would go on the Kwaremont and Boonen should stay in his wheel. 

    And that is what happened - except Boonen had a mechanical, and when they got to the top Gilbert looked around and was by himself.   He radio'd to his team saying 'what do I do now' about 10 times but no answer .... so he just rode.  He said he was relying on team behind to make the groups so that if he didnt make it, they would

    Quickstep were actually very good.  Terpstra and Trentin then were in the front group and in a good position.  After Sagan fell, Terpstra and GVA went - and Trentin was in G3 .... so QS had all groups covered and werent working.


    I had a heart attack when Terpstra gave GVA and Van Baarle a couple of turns though  :lol
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  • AG

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    Re: De Ronde van Vlaanderen
    « Reply #37 on: April 03, 2017, 02:09 »
    WHAT A RACE !!!!


    55km solo to win Flanders - I am just gobsmacked.



    He truly is a remarkable bike rider. 

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  • hiero

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    Re: De Ronde van Vlaanderen
    « Reply #38 on: April 03, 2017, 02:26 »
    . . .

    Quickstep were actually very good.  . . .

    Yes they were! Quite amazingly good on the day. Sometimes the cards fall your way, sometimes they don't. On this day, QuickStep played their cards very well - they covered Fate, realizing she could make things fall in different ways. As she did, and Gilbert took a beautiful victory - one for the ages.
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  • Echoes

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    Re: De Ronde van Vlaanderen
    « Reply #39 on: April 03, 2017, 09:28 »
    That was an outstanding edition of RVV. What a ride by Gilbert! He is certainly the renaissance man of the year. Some bizarrre incidents but that didn't detract from his victory. I have to say I always had him down as an Ardennes man. How wrong was I???



    He's always had a shot at this one. He won the Omloop twice in his Madiot years. Flanders is winnable for Ardennes rider. Roubaix is much harder to.  ;)
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  • AG

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    Re: De Ronde van Vlaanderen
    « Reply #40 on: April 03, 2017, 09:54 »
    cmon Echoes - anything Fabian can do, Phil can do better   :lol



    He did say after hte race that one of his major goals has always been - and is still - to win all 5 monuments.


    He is going to decide over the next day or so if he will ride Roubaix.    I am assuming htat even if he does, it will be in support of Boonen, but a bit of experience in the race would be helpful if he is to make a proper attempt at it.

    Problem is - it may compromise his attempt at Liege.

    He did say last week after de Panne though, that he fully believed it was possible to ride (and compete) every Sunday until Liege .... so he had Roubaix in mind even then
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  • LukasCPH

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    Re: De Ronde van Vlaanderen
    « Reply #41 on: April 03, 2017, 10:30 »
    He is going to decide over the next day or so if he will ride Roubaix.    I am assuming htat even if he does, it will be in support of Boonen, but a bit of experience in the race would be helpful if he is to make a proper attempt at it.
    If he wants to make a proper attempt at Roubaix, not for a 5th place, but to win, he absolutely needs experience in the race. Several years of it.
    Nobody has won P-R in recent years without having placed in the top-10 before.

    I think he should go for it on Sunday, support Boonen and learn the ropes. Then he can try for himself in 2017 or 2018.
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    just some guy

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    Re: De Ronde van Vlaanderen
    « Reply #42 on: April 03, 2017, 10:39 »
    If he wants to make a proper attempt at Roubaix, not for a 5th place, but to win, he absolutely needs experience in the race. Several years of it.
    Nobody has won P-R in recent years without having placed in the top-10 before.

    I think he should go for it on Sunday, support Boonen and learn the ropes. Then he can try for himself in 2017 or 2018.

    aye the neo that he is, they will ride for Boonen but Phil is not some neo talking about being a classics specialist

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  • Of course, if this turns out someday to be the industry standard integrated handlebar-computer-braking solution then I'll eat my kevlar-reinforced aerodynamic hat.

    Larri Nov 12, 2014

    AG

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    Re: De Ronde van Vlaanderen
    « Reply #43 on: April 03, 2017, 10:45 »
    yeah but this is Quickstep  - they will find a way to stuff it up for tommeke  :fp



    and I dont know that htey will let Phil ride in prep for next year etc if it compromises his chances at liege.    Mind - they also have Alaphilippe for Ardennes so maybe they will be ok with it
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  • just some guy

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    Re: De Ronde van Vlaanderen
    « Reply #44 on: April 03, 2017, 10:47 »
    yeah but this is Quickstep  - they will find a way to stuff it up for tommeke  :fp



    and I dont know that htey will let Phil ride in prep for next year etc if it compromises his chances at liege.    Mind - they also have Alaphilippe for Ardennes so maybe they will be ok with it

    if there is a quickstep team for 2018 of course

    But Phil winning Roubiax with only MSR to go for the monuments would be huge
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  • Servais Knavendish

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    Re: De Ronde van Vlaanderen
    « Reply #45 on: April 03, 2017, 10:55 »
    cmon Echoes - anything Fabian can do, Phil can do better   :lol

    I am assuming that even if he does, it will be in support of Boonen...

    As per most quotes above - what an astonishing race, an incredible performance, and amazing QS teamwork - fantastic to see the Tomeke / PG embrace half way through the press interviews!

    Now I wonder / hope if it is really possible to dream that we could see a true fairytale next week with PG repaying the support, and Tomeke bowing out with a cobble... he looked strong yesterday, certainly stronger than his gearing mech; here's hoping!

     :cool
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  • Echoes

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    Re: De Ronde van Vlaanderen
    « Reply #46 on: April 03, 2017, 14:26 »
    cmon Echoes - anything Fabian can do, Phil can do better   :lol


    He did say after hte race that one of his major goals has always been - and is still - to win all 5 monuments.


    He is going to decide over the next day or so if he will ride Roubaix.    I am assuming htat even if he does, it will be in support of Boonen, but a bit of experience in the race would be helpful if he is to make a proper attempt at it.

    Problem is - it may compromise his attempt at Liege.

    He did say last week after de Panne though, that he fully believed it was possible to ride (and compete) every Sunday until Liege .... so he had Roubaix in mind even then

    Lol @ first sentence.

    Yes it's a dream that he's had since the youth categories. I would also refer the the E3 thread where I referred to it in an article of the Laatste Nieuws. Boonen pointed to the fact that the new styled Tour of Flanders was taylor-made for Phil. He proved right.  :D

    However he's raced Paris-Roubaix only once. That was in 2007. If my memory does not leave me he was 54th. The day after he read the Dernière Heure and in an interview he said he was broken down and that "it is harder than the Tour of France". You bet I remember these words. It was still in his Madiot years. Probably he's another rider now and I would love to see Phil race it again if possible next Sunday but winning it will be hard. He's a bit lightweight for Paris-Roubaix. He's had a shot at Milan-Sanremo too. If only Pozzato did not drag Goss back in 2011! but now it's going to be harder and harder for that one too. He would need a bit of luck, I think.

    Even if he's a local hero, I'm not sure another Liège win interests him now
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  • hiero

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    Re: De Ronde van Vlaanderen
    « Reply #47 on: April 04, 2017, 03:54 »
    So Sagan has his analysis vid of the crash now
    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/sagan-has-final-word-on-tour-of-flanders-crash/

    Looking at this vid, I think the cause is quite clear. The slo-mo analysis is perfect here.
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  • AG

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    Re: De Ronde van Vlaanderen
    « Reply #48 on: April 04, 2017, 06:13 »
    yep - just touched that jacket which put him off a bit and onto the feet of the barrier.

    Still - that is rider error.


    He chose to ride that close to the barrier.  Its not like he was in a big bunch and forced onto the barriers ... he was riding there by choice to save energy.


    And - this just shows how tired he was.  Sagan's skills are such that he would normally not be affected by that kind of thing.  He would normally be able to stay up ...
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  • AG

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    Re: De Ronde van Vlaanderen
    « Reply #49 on: April 04, 2017, 06:17 »
    Lol @ first sentence.

    Yes it's a dream that he's had since the youth categories. I would also refer the the E3 thread where I referred to it in an article of the Laatste Nieuws. Boonen pointed to the fact that the new styled Tour of Flanders was taylor-made for Phil. He proved right.  :D

    However he's raced Paris-Roubaix only once. That was in 2007. If my memory does not leave me he was 54th. The day after he read the Dernière Heure and in an interview he said he was broken down and that "it is harder than the Tour of France". You bet I remember these words. It was still in his Madiot years. Probably he's another rider now and I would love to see Phil race it again if possible next Sunday but winning it will be hard. He's a bit lightweight for Paris-Roubaix. He's had a shot at Milan-Sanremo too. If only Pozzato did not drag Goss back in 2011! but now it's going to be harder and harder for that one too. He would need a bit of luck, I think.

    Even if he's a local hero, I'm not sure another Liège win interests him now

    He also said at one point that he would never ride the Tour de France ... (after doing the Dauphine)    ;)

    Liege - no way.   This is the race he dreams about.  Liege will ALWAYS have that special place for him.


    But - he really thinks that he can do it all.  Confidence is definitely something he does not lack  :lol   
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  • Carlo Algatrensig

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    Re: De Ronde van Vlaanderen
    « Reply #50 on: April 04, 2017, 08:14 »
    So Sagan has his analysis vid of the crash now
    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/sagan-has-final-word-on-tour-of-flanders-crash/

    Looking at this vid, I think the cause is quite clear. The slo-mo analysis is perfect here.

    Looking at that clip it appears to me like the barrier legs that Sagan ends up hitting are a bit further out than the others they've ridden past which didn't help after he got his bars caught on the jacket.
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  • Echoes

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    Re: De Ronde van Vlaanderen
    « Reply #51 on: April 04, 2017, 09:29 »
    He made a big mistake if only because he chose the wrong side of the road. Gilbert climbed it on the other side and said on the Sporza TV set that it was safer and faster. They showed a comparison of the two rides on the Kwaremont. He can only blame himself and should apologise to Greg and Ollie ...
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  • hiero

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    Re: De Ronde van Vlaanderen
    « Reply #52 on: April 05, 2017, 02:56 »
    yep - just touched that jacket which put him off a bit and onto the feet of the barrier.

    Still - that is rider error.


    He chose to ride that close to the barrier.  Its not like he was in a big bunch and forced onto the barriers ... he was riding there by choice to save energy.


    And - this just shows how tired he was.  Sagan's skills are such that he would normally not be affected by that kind of thing.  He would normally be able to stay up ...

    I will agree that late race fatigue was making an impression - i.e. Sagan was not at his freshest.

    However, barrier feet or no barrier feet, left side or right side - the jacket set up the accident - without question. It jerked his handlebars to the left - setting up the dive to the right - and if the jacket pulled the front wheel on to a barrier leg - it only increased the effectiveness of the jacket. Dynamics of steering - the jacket clearly sent Sagan to the ground.

    If he had been fresh at kilometer 20, maybe he could have managed - but I think not. The effort of the moment was too high. The jacket jerked the left side handlebar backwards - forcing the right lean angle - and boom - down.

    So, is that Sagan's fault for not accounting enough for fan actions? Hmmmmm. Have to think about that.
    Could something like this be prevented by better fan control? Hmmmm. Have to think about that.
    Is it arguable that the jacket did not cause the accident? Ah, no. I do NOT have to think about THAT!

    Oh, and BTW, it is only because we are talking Sagan that I am even considering this mishap to be a recoverable incident. Any other rider? Some in the pro peloton might be able to recover in perfect star-alignment sort of conditions. But only Sagan would we EXPECT to recover!

    But, this was Fate. Like I said, the old gods . . .interfering . . .(they were always known for interfering) . . .the fates . . .play games with men.

    Fate.


    :wave
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