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LukasCPH

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Re: Team Sponsorship 17/18
« Reply #30 on: August 29, 2017, 10:36 »
http://www.cyclist.co.uk/news/2899/are-cannondale-to-stop-sponsoring-eponymous-pro-team-at-the-end-of-the-season
That article is from early June, though, and if we can trust the team's press release Cannondale signed up again.

A Dutch website now reports that the sponsor that almost was, then wasn't is ... Unibet:
http://www.ad.nl/vuelta/unibet-was-de-sponsor-die-afhaakte-bij-cannondale~a53776ab/
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    hiero

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    Re: Team Sponsorship 17/18
    « Reply #31 on: August 29, 2017, 13:31 »
    That article is from early June, though, and if we can trust the team's press release Cannondale signed up again.

    A Dutch website now reports that the sponsor that almost was, then wasn't is ... Unibet:
    http://www.ad.nl/vuelta/unibet-was-de-sponsor-die-afhaakte-bij-cannondale~a53776ab/

    Thanks for that - I would be a bit upset if it was Cannondale as the weak link. Particularly as it had seemed that loose end had been tied down.
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  • Eeyore sez . . .

    LukasCPH

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    Re: Team Sponsorship 17/18
    « Reply #32 on: August 29, 2017, 22:01 »
    http://www.zikloland.com/movistar-team-equipo-femenino-uci-eusebio-unzue-planea/

    Unzué and Movistar are planning to put together a women's team. :cool
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  • Leadbelly

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    Re: Team Sponsorship 17/18
    « Reply #33 on: August 30, 2017, 14:48 »
    http://www.procycling.no/teamfixit-no-legges/

    Team FixIT.no will be "put down" at the end of the year as Google Translate inelegantly puts it.

    ..... and Sparebanken Sor too!

    https://twitter.com/teamspbanksor/status/902511849459023873

    Quote
    Unfortunately, a sponsor I thought was in a box drawn. It will therefore be impossible to continue the bet after this season. Then it will be impossible for us to continue as a cycling team. I had looked forward to continuing the venture as a Norwegian continental law. I'm sorry for the riders and the whole support device. It is also a pity for cycling Norway when such an important development arena is laid down, "says owner Thor Hushovd.
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  • Mellow Velo

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    Re: Team Sponsorship 17/18
    « Reply #34 on: August 30, 2017, 15:52 »
     Filling in JSG's cryptic comment from yesterday.

    https://twitter.com/vaughters/status/902892070024642560
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    Leadbelly

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    Re: Team Sponsorship 17/18
    « Reply #35 on: August 31, 2017, 05:28 »
    https://twitter.com/SilberProTeam/status/903001770208591872

    It's not just Rally and Axeon planning to go PCT, but Hincapie as well.

    Come on Jelly Belly, you got some news for us?
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  • LukasCPH

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    Re: Team Sponsorship 17/18
    « Reply #36 on: August 31, 2017, 09:17 »
    It's not just Rally and Axeon planning to go PCT, but Hincapie as well.
    Those Americans ...
    Is this only for California, or will they step up their overseas program as well?[1]
     1. or, in the case of #holowesko, get an overseas program? :P
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  • Leadbelly

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    Re: Team Sponsorship 17/18
    « Reply #37 on: September 01, 2017, 19:59 »
    So does anybody want to hazard a ballpark figures on how much this upgrade will cost the three new US PCT teams (let's assume their calendars don't change too much)?

    I found this for continental teams, but nothing for PCT. Presumably the UCI licence will cost more, the bank guarantee will go up and minimum wages introduced (I think they pay quite well already, so that may not be so much of an issue). Are they on the bio-passport already? There must be other stuff too.
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  • hiero

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    Re: Team Sponsorship 17/18
    « Reply #38 on: September 02, 2017, 02:48 »
    Filling in JSG's cryptic comment from yesterday.

    https://twitter.com/vaughters/status/902892070024642560

    The Indiegogo campaign is up to $400k and rising. This is promising. I think if they can make the $1M mark, they will make $2M. With matching, that makes $4M total - and apparently enough to keep the doors open.

    Save the Argyle
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  • LukasCPH

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    Re: Team Sponsorship 17/18
    « Reply #39 on: September 02, 2017, 09:52 »
    So does anybody want to hazard a ballpark figures on how much this upgrade will cost the three new US PCT teams (let's assume their calendars don't change too much)?

    I found this for continental teams, but nothing for PCT. Presumably the UCI licence will cost more, the bank guarantee will go up and minimum wages introduced (I think they pay quite well already, so that may not be so much of an issue). Are they on the bio-passport already? There must be other stuff too.
    Digging through various UCI documents, I found these values for 2017:
    Registration fees CT 3750 €
    CADF contribution CT 2250  €
    Bank guarantee CT min. 20 000 €
    Minimum wages CT none
    Total CT 26 000 €
    Registration fees PCT 20 000 €
    CADF contribution PCT unspecified
    Bank guarantee PCT min. 300 000 CHF
    Minimum wages PCT (16 riders & 8 staff) between 600 000 € & 726 000 €[1]
    Total PCT between 920 000 € & 1 046 000 €
     1. depending on how many neo-pros they sign & what they pay the staff (no prescribed minimum wage) etc.

    As you can see, the difference is substantial: 900k, and that's without the anti-doping contribution that is only specified as "paid directly to CADF" in the regulations.
    But, as you noted, those are the minimums prescribed by the UCI - those North American CTs pay their riders quite handsomely (for a CT) already. Let's assume every rider on #rally, #axeon or #holowesko gets 1000 $ per month, then that would be just below 200 000 $ for 16 riders for one season. Let's add some staff, and that's another 100 grand. Race expenses etc. would stay approximately the same if they upgrade to PCT but keep a similar program - if not actually shrink since PCTs are much more courted by races than CTs.

    So, ballpark, the additional expense for getting a PCT label, without changing anything else, is around 600 000 € for those North American Continental Teams.
    Less if they pay their riders more than 1000 $/month - which those teams may well do, going by the anecdotal evidence of Gaimon's book & Twitter.
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  • « Last Edit: September 02, 2017, 12:36 by LukasCPH »

    Slow Rider

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    Re: Team Sponsorship 17/18
    « Reply #40 on: September 02, 2017, 12:02 »
    Good question.
    The thing is, the gap between WT and PCT has become so large that a WT team management probably wouldn't consider continuing as PCT even if it were theoretically possible.

    It's not as simple as just not wanting to consider it I think. If their remaining sponsors have any common sense, they will have put in place some clauses in the sponsorship contracts to allow them to pull out if the team drops from WT level. A PCT team is just worth a lot less in sponsorship money - mostly because there is no guaranteed Tour invitation.

    The thing about Cannondale and its predecessors is, they really have very little marketing appeal. Partly because the team has no national identity. If LottoNL, QuickStep or Sky were to pull out as sponsors the odds are a sponsor interested in their home markets would jump in. Anything QuickStep does gets more attention in Belgium than whatever other team. Similarly, around the big races there often are pieces about LottoNL in the mainstream Dutch media.

    Cannondale, on the other hand, have no home market. And so, there is not one mainstream (as in: not cycling-specific) media outlet that would consider doing a piece on them. Maybe on one of their riders, but not on the team as a whole. This reduces their sponsorship appeal.

    So Cannondale are not of interest for any national market. The same can be said about, for instance, Trek and BMC. Those are teams aiming their sponsorship strategy not at a national market, but at the international one of cycling fanatics. It is no coincidence Cannondale has mostly had sponsors from the cycling world: bike sponsors (as Trek and BMC have), and Garmin.

    Yet that shows the other weakness of Cannondale: a distinct lack of stars. BMC have Van Avermaet, Trek have Contador. Both big names who get you attention. Cannondale have a strong all-round squad with plenty of riders capable of winning something, but not a big star. Uran is a good rider but his home market is not particularly interesting to most sponsors, and his status is not even remotely at the level of Contador and Van Avermaet. This is also why Trek - despite having a more pretty decent all-round team already - are desperately looking for a big name to replace Contador.

    Cycling fans are, as a general rule, not a fan of teams, but of riders. A cycling fan would not consider buying a BMC bike over a cheaper, say, Giant one  because BMC sponsors Ochowicz's team. They might, though, consider spending on that BMC bike because GVA won the Olympics on it. Or on that Trek bike because Contador did some brilliant attacking on it. But who is going to buy a Cannondale bike because of Uran's conservative ride to second at the Tour?

    In short, Vaughters has chosen an unsustainable strategy in today's difficult struggle for sponsorship money. The novelty of his anti-doping stance has long worn off, he has no home market to cater to, and no world-class stars to market. Personally, even if he pulls through this year, I cannot see the team survive on the long term unless they change their strategy.
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  • hiero

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    Re: Team Sponsorship 17/18
    « Reply #41 on: September 02, 2017, 15:51 »
    . . .
    The thing about Cannondale and its predecessors is, they really have very little marketing appeal. Partly because the team has no national identity. . . .

    You've made some excellent points.

    I am not a sponsor, so I can't really say, but you make some very good points here. USPS became Motorola, both recognized US entities. Which later became Trek - a recognized US entity, but smaller money, no doubt.

    Vaughters doesn't have a star draw because he never had the money, which becomes a catch-22. He's tried to pick up talent that might make it to the top - but it has never quite worked out.

    I suppose BMC is the inheritor of the 7/11 marque, via Ochowicz. I'm pretty certain that BMC wanted in on the US market, and that had something to do with that sponsorship - but as you point out - another bicycle mfr - less sponsorship dollars than another industry.
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  • Leadbelly

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    Re: Team Sponsorship 17/18
    « Reply #42 on: September 06, 2017, 12:57 »
    https://twitter.com/zikloland/status/905327637438107648

    Burgos-BH have already paid the 20k registration fee for going PCT. Many other (and more expensive) hurdles to come.
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  • LukasCPH

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    Re: Team Sponsorship 17/18
    « Reply #43 on: September 06, 2017, 15:56 »
    Burgos-BH have already paid the 20k registration fee for going PCT. Many other (and more expensive) hurdles to come.
    Them as well?! :o
    That would mean there is 1 Spanish WT team (#movistar), 3 PCTs (#cajarural #euskadi #burgos) ... and zero Continental teams.

    Talk about top-heavy, and about reducing the link between the Spanish U23/amateur scene (that hardly ever races outside Spain, or indeed in UCI races inside Spain) and the pro circus even more than has already happened.

    I can understand a team's desire to step up a level - but I don't think it's a good thing for Spanish cycling if there's absolutely nothing 'in between' national U23 races and being a full-time pro.
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  • Leadbelly

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    Re: Team Sponsorship 17/18
    « Reply #44 on: September 06, 2017, 17:01 »
    That would mean there is 1 Spanish WT team (#movistar), 3 PCTs (#cajarural #euskadi #burgos) ... and zero Continental teams.

    1 possible CT team - Fundacion Contador

    There are no guarantees of course that either Burgos or Euskadi will go PCT. As i vaguely hinted above, it's all very well handing over 20k for the registration, but now they have to pay (find?) the rest.

    Burgos would need a massive squad overhaul as well, at least with Euskadi they have some riders (Bravo and Bizkarra) who wouldn't look out of place at the higher level. Since Belda got busted it's very difficult to see a single rider at Burgos who you could say that about.
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  • Leadbelly

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    Re: Team Sponsorship 17/18
    « Reply #45 on: September 07, 2017, 20:46 »
    https://twitter.com/velonews/status/905866262881771521

    Honoured or enforced? Some riders may take differing views.
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  • Leadbelly

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    Re: Team Sponsorship 17/18
    « Reply #46 on: September 07, 2017, 20:57 »
    https://twitter.com/MuriasTeam/status/905700265915031557

    Euskadi are hot on the heels of Burgos. 20k registration fee deposited and have "also paid the total endorsement (?) of the team's budget (about 400,000 euros)".

    Some more details in there about the team:

    18-20 riders
    No wholesale team changes (obviously)
    Budget could get close to 2 million
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  • Leadbelly

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    Re: Team Sponsorship 17/18
    « Reply #47 on: September 08, 2017, 05:25 »
    http://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/latest-news/bike-channel-canyon-future-doubt-sponsor-brink-closure-350100

    Bike Channel to go the way of the dodo and thus Bike Channel - Canyon's future is looking very shaky.
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  • Not My Circus

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    Re: Team Sponsorship 17/18
    « Reply #48 on: September 08, 2017, 11:00 »

    Honoured or enforced? Some riders may take differing views.

    I have a lot of the love for the Argyle brigade and I'm glad they survive. But sheesh, the thought that the email contained the word 'enforced' makes me sick. They allegedly left it late to inform staff there was a problem (bad if true), set them free to look for other  teams (good), are so 'incredibly grateful' that riders give them time to sort it out, then when they do so they use the word 'enforce' to tell them the good news.

    What would happen if, for example, a rider was well along in making a new deal and quite happy about it thank you very much. He was free to do so in good faith, why should he pulled back now because the miracle sponsor has been found. Is that even enforceable, I'm guessing it must be. 

    It just feels like they asked for a lot of good faith and this feels like a poor repayment. I shouldn't be surprised, there have been a few reports over the years that show the team is not quite so hot in the area of communicating with riders under contract/out of contract. It leaves a sour taste.
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  • LukasCPH

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    Re: Team Sponsorship 17/18
    « Reply #49 on: September 08, 2017, 11:52 »
    I have a lot of the love for the Argyle brigade and I'm glad they survive. But sheesh, the thought that the email contained the word 'enforced' makes me sick. They allegedly left it late to inform staff there was a problem (bad if true), set them free to look for other  teams (good), are so 'incredibly grateful' that riders give them time to sort it out, then when they do so they use the word 'enforce' to tell them the good news.

    What would happen if, for example, a rider was well along in making a new deal and quite happy about it thank you very much. He was free to do so in good faith, why should he pulled back now because the miracle sponsor has been found. Is that even enforceable, I'm guessing it must be. 

    It just feels like they asked for a lot of good faith and this feels like a poor repayment. I shouldn't be surprised, there have been a few reports over the years that show the team is not quite so hot in the area of communicating with riders under contract/out of contract. It leaves a sour taste.
    The way I understood Leadbelly's post, the team e-mail used the word "honored"[1], not "enforced".
    The "enforced" bit was Leadbelly's interpretation/comment.

    I think that once a team's riders (& staff) have been told they're free to look for other teams, you can't renege on that and make them stay against their will. This simply says that if they don't find a deal elsewhere, their 2018 contracts will be honoured, whereas before it looked possible that Vaughters would have to close shop.

    I do agree that he hasn't always been the nicest guy to the people that he didn't want anymore.
     1. stupid Americans and their stupid spelling ... it's "honoured"!
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  • hiero

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    Re: Team Sponsorship 17/18
    « Reply #50 on: September 08, 2017, 13:43 »
    I'm not sure it was Leadbelly's interpretation - I saw a tweet that said the same thing: "enforced".

    The indiegogo campaign seems to have peaked - although fund-raising often sees a last minute rush - but for now we are looking at a plateau. $530k as of this morning. Well short of $2M.
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  • Not My Circus

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    Re: Team Sponsorship 17/18
    « Reply #51 on: September 08, 2017, 13:48 »
    The way I understood Leadbelly's post, the team e-mail used the word "honored"[1], not "enforced".
    The "enforced" bit was Leadbelly's interpretation/comment.
     1. stupid Americans and their stupid spelling ... it's "honoured"!

    Heh, honor/honour . Wilde summed it up well "we have really everything in common with America nowadays, except, of course, language"

    Re enforced / honoured. It's not just Leadbelly's interpretation. In the VeloNews article that broke the news yesterday, they used the term enforced when quoting from an email that was sent to riders on Thurs evening.

    https://twitter.com/velonews/status/905866262881771521

    Quote
    On Thursday team management sent an email to riders indicating that all 2018 contracts will be enforced. In the note, team CEO Jonathan Vaughters said: “As of right now, I am informing you that if you have a contract with Slipstreamsports for 2018, we are enforcing your contract. More to come.” VeloNews reached out to team staff for comment, and have yet to receive official word on the news.

    To me it seems that it's VeloNews who use the word honouring. Maybe recent communiqués from the team use it, I hope so.

    On further reading maybe it means 'if you haven't signed anywhere else yet'... though technically they were all free anyway. I don't know why it irks me so, but it does.


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  • Leadbelly

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    Re: Team Sponsorship 17/18
    « Reply #52 on: September 08, 2017, 18:23 »
    http://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/latest-news/bike-channel-canyon-future-doubt-sponsor-brink-closure-350100

    Bike Channel to go the way of the dodo and thus Bike Channel - Canyon's future is looking very shaky.

    https://twitter.com/cyclingweekly/status/906103132870070272

    Not so shaky any more. Canyon and two other sponsors will step up if need be. :cool
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  • Leadbelly

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    Re: Team Sponsorship 17/18
    « Reply #53 on: September 08, 2017, 20:09 »
    http://cyclingpro.net/spaziociclismo/continental/gm-europa-oviini-nippo-vini-fantini-marchesani-deciso-questa-fusione/

    Quote
    The  GM Europa Ovini and  NIPPO - Vini Fantini decided to join forces. The news has been in the air for several months, but today Gabriele Marchesani has confirmed this fusion.

    The goal is therefore to create a reality that goes beyond professionalism, giving young runners the opportunity to grow with what seems to be a long-term project. "The design is not only for the Professional team, but there will also be an Under 23 team and a Juniors  - adds Marchesani - I think it's the only case for a Professional training, we believe in nursery and growing kids. It will be an important and interesting union for the growth of cycling in Abruzzo ".

    Tizza and Parrinello are good enough to survive the merger, but I don't know enough to say which other GM riders might make the cut.
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  • LukasCPH

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    Re: Team Sponsorship 17/18
    « Reply #54 on: September 09, 2017, 13:15 »
    http://cyclingpro.net/spaziociclismo/continental/gm-europa-oviini-nippo-vini-fantini-marchesani-deciso-questa-fusione/

    Tizza and Parrinello are good enough to survive the merger, but I don't know enough to say which other GM riders might make the cut.
    As a former pro, Lander might also get the nod (even though he isn't performing at his best anymore).
    Brogi, Pacchiardo, Rotondi, or Ruscetta aren't bad either, but I wouldn't think that's enough to get a spot on a merged #nippo #gm ProConti team (unless the team goes from 19 riders to at least 25).
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  • Leadbelly

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    Re: Team Sponsorship 17/18
    « Reply #55 on: September 09, 2017, 17:07 »


    Those ever decreasing circles on a kit might give some people a headache.
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  • jimmythecuckoo

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    Re: Team Sponsorship 17/18
    « Reply #56 on: September 13, 2017, 14:21 »
    Or hypnotise their opponents into submission.
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  • The fens are just West West Flanders really...

    LukasCPH

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    Re: Team Sponsorship 17/18
    « Reply #57 on: September 20, 2017, 08:49 »
    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/team-wiggins-dismiss-claims-of-financial-problems-and-vow-to-race-in-2018/

    #wiggins deny that the team couldn't afford to race internationally after June. But as the article points out, other than the Tour Alsace, they did in fact not race internationally after the national champs.
    Cope himself says that "there's not that much in August unless you go way over to Eastern Europe and the costs for that are astronomical." So if money really was of no concern, they would just go over to Eastern Europe, right?

    Anyhow, they're planning for 2018 with a 16-strong roster of U23 riders, without track riders who were often not available for road events.
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  • Leadbelly

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    Re: Team Sponsorship 17/18
    « Reply #58 on: September 20, 2017, 20:12 »
    1 possible CT team - Fundacion Contador

    https://twitter.com/zikloland/status/910550573790957568

    Make that two as the Fundacion Euskadi are planning to step up as well. Things are looking rosier for Spanish cycling.
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  • Leadbelly

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    Re: Team Sponsorship 17/18
    « Reply #59 on: September 20, 2017, 20:33 »
    Anyhow, they're planning for 2018 with a 16-strong roster of U23 riders, without track riders who were often not available for road events.

    Since he's going to be one of the riders that is too old for them now, Latham would be a good pick up for the right CT (or low end PCT) team. Hasn't had a super 2017 (4th at Velothon Wales probably his best result), but showed enough in 2016 (3rd at GP Cerami) to get a decent contract somewhere.
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