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t-72

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UAE and Bahrain got no coverage at all. I wonder if it has to do with politics?

Not entirely true, #bahrain Sonny Colbrelli was in focus early on. Later I think the producers simply lost it - clocks not working, winner didn't get more than a finish line shot on TV, etc.
One of the worst TV productions from ASO I have seen, and worse than RCS' time trial productions this year.

They're also worse on safety, using a lot of the inverted Y shape or inverted T shape barriers with a protruding foot and pretty little cushioning at difficult corners. (One exception today).
ASO also have some L- shaped barriers and tend to prioritize them for sprint sections etc - but RCS is using them a lot more. They are simply safer for the racers as they don't hit the protruding foot as easy.
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  • ansimi

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    UAE and Bahrain got no coverage at all. I wonder if it has to do with politics?

    I expect a team like this to have better PR! I can never cheer for that team but I want to know Izagirre is OK and they don't seem to be saying anything? They may not have been able to get camera coverage today but they can update their own media.
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  • Armchair Cyclist

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    TT tyres being blamed for a lot of the crashes.
    The Jumbo trio were using them as was Nicholas Roche.
    You would think that Jumbo would have cottoned on, if not after the first, but the second.

    I don't cycle seriously enough to have ever used them or need to know about them, but if TT tyres are glued on, as referred to during the commentary (ITV4), can they be changed rapidly?
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  • Mellow Velo

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    I don't cycle seriously enough to have ever used them or need to know about them, but if TT tyres are glued on, as referred to during the commentary (ITV4), can they be changed rapidly?


    Since some Jumbo riders didn't use them, I thought they'd change to a different wheel.

    Anyhow, Pat Bevin on Valverde corner.....

    https://twitter.com/AshConing/status/881247743720796160
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  • "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.

    t-72

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    Quote
    All our riders started and went quite well with solid performance; however, our leader Ion Izagirre who started as the last of our team, crashed badly in the corner close to the point where Alejandro Valverde (Movistar) had crashed as well. It was a very hard hit into the fence. Izagirre was then immediately transported to the hospital by an ambulance in company with the team doctor Luca Pollastri. The first diagnosis said that Ion Izagirre has an unstable lumbar fracture and he needs a surgical treatment. We will come with further information in the next days.
    We are deeply sad that Ion will not continue this year’s Tour de France, where he was meant to be the team leader after the strong performance this season. It is a big loss for Team Bahrain-Merida.

    Source: Bahrain-Merida homepage

    EDIT: Seeing how many riders went down and how hard they went down on that corner, could ASO have foreseen that this was a highly risky point along the route and added some padding on those fences, maybe used L-fences instead of inverted Y fences and in general, made sure that the most difficult point on the route was a bit less dangerous?
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  • ansimi

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    Ouch:( I wonder if Izagirre and Valverde get to stay in the same hospital? Izagirre probably can't be transported for a while with that injury but I'm sure they have fantastic care in Düsseldorf.
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  • M Gee

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    • The user formerly known as hiero
    . . .

    EDIT: Seeing how many riders went down and how hard they went down on that corner, could ASO have foreseen that this was a highly risky point along the route and added some padding on those fences, maybe used L-fences instead of inverted Y fences and in general, made sure that the most difficult point on the route was a bit less dangerous?

    I wouldn't think they could have foreseen it - because it seems to me the whole of the danger of that corner was created by the rain conditions. On a fair day, that corner would have been fast. I would not think it possible to predict WHICH corner, of 9, would present the danger on a day like today. On the other hand, they could have taken those safety measures on every one of those 9 corners. Its not like they aren't making money on this.

    TT tyres being blamed for a lot of the crashes.
    The Jumbo trio were using them as was Nicholas Roche.
    You would think that Jumbo would have cottoned on, if not after the first, but the second.

    Sh*t, I'd want the grippiest tires I could get on a day like this one.


     . . .Anyhow, Pat Bevin on Valverde corner.....

    https://twitter.com/AshConing/status/881247743720796160

    MV, that looks to me like it was not the same corner - as the barrier banners are different than what I saw when Valverde went down - of course it could just be a bit farther on . . .
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  • . . .He had the bit between his teeth, and he loiked the taste, mate . . .

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    from Dan Martin's blog in the Irish Times today. He said he worked a lot on his time trialing lately:

    let's see how it goes :cool

    well, he did alright only in the 2nd part...

    Split Times:

    RANK NAME INT INT -> FIN FIN
    1      #sky   THOMAS Geraint      09:23 (5.)      <- 06:41:48 (1.) ->      16:04:48
    2      #bmc   *KÜNG Stefan      09:20 (3.)      <- 06:50:07 (3.) ->      16:10:07
    3      #sky   KIRYIENKA Vasil      09:20 (4.)      <- 06:52:25 (7.) ->      16:12:25
    4      #katusha   MARTIN Tony      09:19 (1.)      <- 06:53:28 (9.) ->      16:12:28
    5      #quickstep   TRENTIN Matteo      09:24 (7.)      <- 06:50:26 (4.) ->      16:14:26
    6      #sky   FROOME Christopher      09:28 (12.)      <- 06:49:15 (2.) ->      16:17:15
    7      #jumbo   VAN EMDEN Jos      09:28 (14.)      <- 06:52:08 (6.) ->      16:20:08
    8      #sky   KWIATKOWSKI Michal      09:20 (2.)      <- 07:00:11 (28.) ->      16:20:11
    9      #quickstep   KITTEL Marcel      09:26 (9.)      <- 06:54:56 (10.) ->      16:20:56
    10      #dimension   BOASSON HAGEN Edvald      09:28 (15.)      <- 06:53:19 (8.) ->      16:21:19
    11      #sunweb   ARNDT Nikias      09:31 (19.)      <- 06:50:35 (5.) ->      16:21:35
    12      #cannondale   PHINNEY Taylor      09:23 (6.)      <- 06:58:36 (20.) ->      16:21:36
    13      #astana   GRIVKO Andrey      09:27 (11.)      <- 06:54:56 (11.) ->      16:21:56
    14      #orica   IMPEY Daryl      09:28 (13.)      <- 06:55:43 (13.) ->      16:23:43
    15      #movistar   CASTROVIEJO Jonathan      09:25 (8.)      <- 07:00:08 (26.) ->      16:25:08
    16      #sunweb   MATTHEWS Michael      09:29 (16.)      <- 06:56:37 (15.) ->      16:25:37
    17      #ag2r   *LATOUR Pierre      09:31 (20.)      <- 06:58:25 (19.) ->      16:29:25
    18      #bora   SAGAN Peter      09:31 (18.)      <- 06:59:20 (24.) ->      16:30:20
    19      #movistar   AMADOR Andrey      09:27 (10.)      <- 07:04:42 (46.) ->      16:31:42
    20      #astana   *LUTSENKO Alexey      09:30 (17.)      <- 07:04:00 (45.) ->      16:34:00
    21      #quickstep   GILBERT Philippe      09:33 (21.)      <- 07:02:04 (34.) ->      16:35:04
    22      #jumbo   GESINK Robert      09:36 (23.)      <- 06:59:08 (22.) ->      16:35:08
    23      #bahrain   COLBRELLI Sonny      09:39 (31.)      <- 06:57:36 (16.) ->      16:36:36
    24      #lotto   WELLENS Tim      09:39 (32.)      <- 06:58:37 (21.) ->      16:37:37
    25      #bora   BODNAR Maciej      09:37 (26.)      <- 07:01:04 (31.) ->      16:38:04
    26      #jumbo   *ROOSEN Timo      09:39 (33.)      <- 07:00:10 (27.) ->      16:39:10
    27      #katusha   KRISTOFF Alexander      09:40 (37.)      <- 07:01:02 (29.) ->      16:41:02
    28      #katusha   HOLLENSTEIN Reto      09:43 (47.)      <- 06:58:21 (18.) ->      16:41:21
    29      #orica   *YATES Simon      09:40 (36.)      <- 07:01:42 (33.) ->      16:41:42
    30      #trek   FELLINE Fabio      09:41 (39.)      <- 07:01:03 (30.) ->      16:42:03
                               
    53      #movistar   QUINTANA Nairo      09:45 (58.)      <- 07:08:04 (57.) ->      16:53:04
    54      #bora   MAJKA Rafal      09:46 (61.)      <- 07:07:40 (55.) ->      16:53:40
    55      #cannondale   TALANSKY Andrew      09:43 (46.)      <- 07:11:09 (78.) ->      16:54:09
                               
    57      #quickstep   MARTIN Daniel      09:52 (79.)      <- 07:02:22 (36.) ->      16:54:22
    58      #trek   DEGENKOLB John      09:40 (38.)      <- 07:14:25 (95.) ->      16:54:25
                               
    63      #ag2r   BARDET Romain      09:43 (44.)      <- 07:13:26 (92.) ->      16:56:26
                               
    65      #jumbo   ROGLIC Primož      09:59 (123.)      <- 06:57:37 (17.) ->      16:56:37
    66      #astana   ARU Fabio      09:44 (52.)      <- 07:13:01 (88.) ->      16:57:01
                               
    68      #trek   CONTADOR Alberto      09:45 (54.)      <- 07:13:00 (86.) ->      16:58:00
    69      #movistar   BETANCUR Carlos      09:47 (66.)      <- 07:11:24 (80.) ->      16:58:24
    70      #astana   FUGLSANG Jakob      09:44 (50.)      <- 07:14:29 (96.) ->      16:58:29
                               
    95      #cannondale   URAN Rigoberto      09:57 (107.)      <- 07:11:22 (79.) ->      17:08:22
                               
    113      #uae   *MEINTJES Louis      09:53 (87.)      <- 07:23:48 (140.) ->      17:16:48
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  • "If this is cycling, I am a banana"

    Capt_Cavman

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    Interesting split times. Froome followed Kwiat in the car and Kwiat  didn't get home (2nd then 28th). The diff between 1st and 20th on the first split was 12 seconds out of 9.5 mins but 17 seconds on the 2nd split out of 6.5 mins.

    The key was pacing and knowing when to take care. Sky got it way more right than anyone else bar Kung.

    I couldn't see little  Ritchie? Written off already?
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  • Joelsim

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    Interesting split times. Froome followed Kwiat in the car and Kwiat  didn't get home (2nd then 28th). The diff between 1st and 20th on the first split was 12 seconds out of 9.5 mins but 17 seconds on the 2nd split out of 6.5 mins.

    The key was pacing and knowing when to take care. Sky got it way more right than anyone else bar Kung.

    I couldn't see little  Ritchie? Written off already?

    Little Richie still has his 2 minute penalty/mechanical  to add, although we're not sure which stage it'll happen on.
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  • t-72

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    I wouldn't think they could have foreseen it - because it seems to me the whole of the danger of that corner was created by the rain conditions. On a fair day, that corner would have been fast. I would not think it possible to predict WHICH corner, of 9, would present the danger on a day like today. On the other hand, they could have taken those safety measures on every one of those 9 corners. Its not like they aren't making money on this.

    Sh*t, I'd want the grippiest tires I could get on a day like this one.


    OK, there were some reports on twitter this morning which (if true...as yet they're a bit unconfirmed) paints a bleak picture of ASO's efforts when it comes to rider safety.


    • A race motorcycle went down at the Valverde/Izaguirre +++ corner, spilling some fluid (oil or fuel) making it extra slippery. This was the cause of many of the accidents that happened there.
    • Taylor Phinney narrowly missed hitting Ion Izaguirre lying injured on the ground.

    I come from a skiing background and I see plenty of lame excuses for poor safety work in pro cycling. Yes, riders have to accept that there is a risk when riding on the edge that will never go away. However, with relatively simple means they could have had far less falls and less serious injuries yesterday. It's not like it was the first time it rains in Düsseldorf, so it is a bit exaggerated to blame everything that happened on the weather.

    12 turns in a race (at least a race of this economical magnitude) can easily and at fairly low cost be safe-guarded better than what we saw yesterday. It's pretty much routine in ski-racing.

    Yesterday, they could have:
    • avoided inverted Y shape barriers on the outside far ends of all turns
    • padded the barriers with something cushioning (RCS often use hayballs, which actually works quite well). Yesterday yellow crash pads were added on one turn that had a particularily narrow exit, but not where we saw all the crashes.
    • prioritized which turns to provide extra safeguarding in by entry speed, not street width. It was the downhill off the bridge that provided the extra energy that made this catastrophe for Valverde and Izaguirre and provided narrow misses for many others.
    • waved off approaching riders after falls when there is a victim on the ground. This is of course not ideal. They'll have to go back and start all over. It is not fair and equal competition for all anymore then. However, safety will be dramatically improved for the injured rider on the ground, the rescue crew (whoever that may be) and last but not least, the approaching rider. This is standard procedure after crashes in high speed motor sports, downhill skiing etc and why it is not done in cycling team trials? A cyclist at 70 km/h has the same damage potential as a skier at similar speeds (potentially lethal on a bad day). Traffic incident practice is alway secure the location before calling for help and starting first aid - this golden rule is not followed in cycling.   :slow

    Stopping the race and cleaning up the corner could have had a huge impact on the serious incident statistics, if it is true that spilled fluids from a race motorcycle was a factor in most of the accidents. Also, stopping the race for evacuation of Izaguirre would have avoided the near-miss incident of Phinney. In an ITT these are real options as it is different from the "show most go on" road race where one rider fallen seldom has consequences that can be dealt with in a timely fashion to reduce risk for the rest of the riders. In an ITT the race organizers have choices to make.

    EDIT: Norwegian TV2 confirms Movistar are blaming a race motorcycle accident.
     
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  • « Last Edit: July 02, 2017, 11:06 by t-72 »

    Mellow Velo

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    Luke Durbridge's crash. Looked a bit concussed to me.

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  • t-72

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    That crash video shows how unfit that kind of barriers are for protecting cyclists. They're made for organizing crowds at concerts and similar occasions.
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  • LukasCPH

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    tl;dr
    Who cares? They're only pro cyclists. We'll find replacements for them, no problem. :shh

    Yeah, that obviously isn't my opinion. It's a stance that would explain what happened (dangerous crashes) and didn't happen (better safety measures).


    Mind you, some of the blame may have to be placed with the Düsseldorf organising committee instead of ASO. I would think that ASO 'outsourced' pretty much everything related to this Grand Départ, only supplying the peloton, timing, sponsor banners and the like.
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    M Gee

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    . . .

    12 turns in a race (at least a race of this economical magnitude) can easily and at fairly low cost be safe-guarded better than what we saw yesterday. It's pretty much routine in ski-racing.
     . . .
     

    T-72, excellent post, excellent argument. If I could like it twice, I would. You are absolutely right. And, if there WAS a moto downing, they could do like some of the auto race tracks do and scrub the corner. It is sounding more and more to me like we are at a juncture w/ cycling race safety like moto-racing went through some 20-30 years ago.
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  • LukasCPH

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    What's more, today's finish in Liège had the L-shaped barriers all the way.

    So, yeah, I think this is on the Düsseldorf organisers, not ASO.
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    Mind you, some of the blame may have to be placed with the Düsseldorf organising committee instead of ASO. I would think that ASO 'outsourced' pretty much everything related to this Grand Départ, only supplying the peloton, timing, sponsor banners and the like.

    in Yorkshire back then the barriers were brought from France. Actually everything was. So if they bring it over the channel, I'd think it would be the same for Germany
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  • LukasCPH

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    in Yorkshire back then the barriers were brought from France. Actually everything was. So if they bring it over the channel, I'd think it would be the same for Germany
    You'd think so; and so would I.
    But then, why did Liège have the 'better' barriers today? Unless the Belgians (cycling-experienced that they are) did that on their own accord ...
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  • t-72

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    You'd think so; and so would I.
    But then, why did Liège have the 'better' barriers today? Unless the Belgians (cycling-experienced that they are) did that on their own accord ...

    Barriers are probably rented and not owned by the race organizers although if anyone owns their own barriers it might be ASO. However, as they are (clearly not) sport-specific I would assume the companies that own them also rent them to other events like concerts, national day parades, marathons  and god-knows-what: the gay pride parade, maybe. It is a general purpose thing used for cycling not a cycling thing used for anything else. There is a lot of fences involved and moving them is a major logistics operation, as they need to be picked up and sat down one by one. This will be more work than moving the same weight of boxed cargo from a to b. How much fences? I don't know about the TdF, but the organizing committee for the 2017 world championship has just picked up 40 kilometers of fencing somewhere - that's a shipload!

    I would guess it is hard to move fences to new destinations overnight and that large races like the Tour and the Giro probably have several sets of fences that they transport along not to the next finish location, but one they will be using later?  (ie...barriers don't travel  Düsseldorf --> Liege but maybe Düsseldorf --> Longwy?)
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