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latino

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The Good, The Bad and The Ugly
« on: July 01, 2017, 19:49 »
Hi everyone,

I'm going write my analysis after each stage in 3 categories (The Good, The Bad and The Ugly).
I invite you to share your thoughts and write your own analysis.

The Good

First win for Geraint Thomas in a GT
4 sky in top 10, plus yellow jersey
Froome putting at least 25sec on all other favorites (first is Yates)
Kung in white
Massive crowd in Germany
Bardet holding on with the favorites

The Bad

Roglic not winning (my pick) :P
Contador losing time to Quintana in a TT
Favorites holding back because of rain (except Froome) resulting in almost no excitement
Tony Martin failing to win and wear yellow in Germany
Too many riders wearing white, very confusing, especially in the rain
Very slippery starting ramp (how hard would it be to put in a non-slippery ramp?)

The Ugly

Valverde and Izaguirre crashed and abandoned (same corner)
Multiple other crashes, like Bennet, Roglic and Gallopin
Bad choice of barriers by Tour organization, too dangerous for riders, especially in the corners, some padding should be mandatory

See you after stage 2 ;)
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  • « Last Edit: July 02, 2017, 00:35 by latino »

    Leadbelly

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    The Bad

    Tissot or whoever was responsible for the on-screen times

    The Ugly

    Carlton Kirby - I usually try and rein in my Carlton bashing as the only thing that's nearly annoying as him is people who go on and on about how annoying he is, but as I mentioned in chat he hit a new low today.
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  • latino

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    The Bad

    Tissot or whoever was responsible for the on-screen times

    ...

    I can't believe I left the clock out of my analysis.
    It was so bad, clock stopping before the finish, or continue to run after it.
    Half-way through the stage, the cameraman decided to just focus on the scoreboard above the finish line to show the times.
    Had flashbacks of the Giro clock :)
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  • t-72

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    Before the tour, Geraint Thomas said this year's Tour Route was one that would favor agressive riding , but that it was important to be agressive when it counts.])

    The way I see the results from today's stage, team Sky succeeded with that strategy right from the start. They saw the bad weather as their opportunity, and grabbed it well. All the other GC contenders were happy to treat the rain as a threat and most of them got away with it, although already a few notable competitors have literally fallen by the wayside.

    The commentary here noted that Froome was in the car following an earlier starting Sky rider (Kiriyenka?), studying the technical sections. I  also think they decided that Geraint Thomas should take risk and if that was successful, Froome would follow.  This was a tour de force from Sky, demonstrating how much has changed since 2014:

    As soon as the Tour hit land on the east side of the Channel that year, the rain started falling and team Sky got into trouble almost at once, Chris Froome fell once and suffered a hand injury, then on the next stage - to Arenberg, we got the "wet roubaix" that almost never happens in spring and Froome fell once or two times more - eventually abandoning the race. Team Sky were riding like Bambi on ice. #astana Astana and #belkin - quite the opposite, Nibali attacked the other GC candidates (like Contador, who was struggling) with Westra and Fuglsang, whilst Belkin riders Sep Vanmarcke and Lars Boom went for the stage win. They mastered the conditions and both teams secured their main objectives (Westra was a little unhappy and thought he should have won the stage).

    Today, the roles were completely reversed, as #astana Jakob Fuglsang was tripping carefully through the turns, trying to avoid falling - and that's not to talk about #tdfjumbo the Lotto-Jumbo team who could have done better sending their speed skaters. Wonder which company supplied their tires cause I am not buying them (In Bergen we need tires that can hold on to the road when it is raining....)

    Anyway - these three teams (with some of the same riders) have now completely switched roles and attitudes when it comes to what to do if it is wet outside, compared to what happened in 2014. However, the result was pretty much the same this time: it pays off for the lucky and the brave and it resulted in a surprisingly large time gap for those who didn't dare to challenge the conditions. This can easily come to decide the outcome of this year's TdF. It's a long way to Paris but in 2015 Quintana wasn't able to reclaim the lost time from stage 2 (the windy and wet stage in they Rhine delta) whilst he matched Froome in the mountains thanks to his strong third week performance.   

    Another question of mine is .... What about Geraint Thomas? Is he actually the stronger of the two now? Everyone has been talking about the double-headed teams and their issues:  Astana and Movistar - would their leader really be their leader and who was really the leader that would be leading the team?? Some have mentioned it's great for #bmc Porte that he doesn't ahve to deal with Teejay van Garderen. No-one that I have been reading have spent many sentences on Geraint Thomas, but he has trained for leading his team in a GC this year, and now he is in front - and he might actually be good enough to win. (Although crashes are more his thing, I hope Valverde and Izaguirre has filled up the required hospital beds for this race.)
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  • Flo

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    The Bad
    - Froome gaining 30+s on all his rivals
    - The crowd. Not enthusiastic at all. Greipel, Kittel and Martin got the loudest cheers but that was similar to what any random rider would get at the Utrecht start two years ago.
    - The group of British fans I found myself right next to. Didn't make a sound for any rider besides the (ex) Sky riders and the Brits (except for Dan McLay - they did not appear to know him). For the first half I was a few 100m closer to start/finish surrounded by Polish fans, they had their flaws but at least they cheered for not just their own riders.
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  • RIP Keith

    Joelsim

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    Poor Bala.

    Recover well fella.

    Any news on Jon's injury?
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  • t-72

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    LukasCPH

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    Wonder which company supplied their tires cause I am not buying them (In Bergen we need tires that can hold on to the road when it is raining....)
    They're sponsored by Vittoria - so don't buy those.
    Continental is said to be a very good choice in wet conditions.
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    RIP Keith

    latino

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    The Bad
    - Froome gaining 30+s on all his rivals
    ...

    I put this on my "Good" list (as in, good for a favorite), but I agree with you, it's "Bad" overall.
    Sky will just control this race from start to finish.
    Especially now with a weaker Movistar.
    Just hope Valverde recovers quickly and that this isn't the end of his career.

    On another note, Geraint Thomas abandoned the Giro earlier and dedicated his training to the Tour.
    We might see a double-headed Sky for a few stages, but I still think Froome will take it in the end.
    The advantage of having Thomas in yellow is that the pressure on Froome's shoulders is just a little bit lower.
    I foresee a Sky train following everyone uphill (like expected).
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  • Capt_Cavman

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    Re: The Good, The Bad and The Ugly
    « Reply #9 on: July 02, 2017, 08:16 »
    I thought the lead Froome/Thomas has is a GOOD thing too; no-ones going to pip them using bonifications  so everyone else will need to attack
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  • Flo

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    Re: The Good, The Bad and The Ugly
    « Reply #10 on: July 02, 2017, 08:59 »
    I thought the lead Froome/Thomas has is a GOOD thing too; no-ones going to pip them using bonifications  so everyone else will need to attack
    Against a mighty strong Sky team on the worst parcours in decades? Eh, good luck to them.
    We often see this argument, for example the same was said for the long TTT in the Volta a Catalunya. It didn't make the race any more interesting. It was a borefest just as predicted. The same will be the case here, no one is beating Froome unless he crashes. He'll finish it on Wednesday.
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  • just some guy

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    Re: The Good, The Bad and The Ugly
    « Reply #11 on: July 02, 2017, 09:03 »
    The rain screwed things a bit. Stage 3 might be a little test of form. Valverde crash sucked for the next 20 days of racing
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  • Of course, if this turns out someday to be the industry standard integrated handlebar-computer-braking solution then I'll eat my kevlar-reinforced aerodynamic hat.

    Larri Nov 12, 2014

    Mellow Velo

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    Re: The Good, The Bad and The Ugly
    « Reply #12 on: July 02, 2017, 09:04 »
     The Good
     The first person from our Principality not only to win a stage, but take the maillot jaune.
    Certainly some compensation for his appalling Giro exit.
     Big crowds in lousy conditions.
     Significant and early impact of the stage on the GC, given the apparent lack of opportunities within the race, should animate the GC boys in the first week.
    I state this guardedly, given the herd like mentality of the GC hopefuls, last year.

    The Bad
    Spanish luck.
    The weather.
    Poor (zero) barrier protection at crash "hot spots". (they weren't hard to ID)
    Awful timing graphics and rider selection omissions, for air time.
    GC riders generally behaving like herd fodder again, in their ultra-cautious riding in the rain. Those who can TT that is.

    The Really, Really Bad

     Izaguirre and especially Valverde going out of the race. Two riders who would have bucked the trend for conservative riding and gone on the attack: the latter on every occasion.

    The Ugly
    Those barrier impacts and................the weather.
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  • "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.

    Slapshot

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    Re: The Good, The Bad and The Ugly
    « Reply #13 on: July 02, 2017, 20:35 »
    The Good - G getting a GT win

    The Bad - Froome getting that much time this early, if the others attack and he wins but shows a little panache while doing so fine, but I fear a three week Sky borefest and three weeks of #kirbygasms every time Froome or a Sky rider appears on the screen.  Their skinsuits...... too many technical grey areas there but Unckie Brian at the UCI said they'd be ok so crack on.... wonder what would have happened if BMC/trek or Movistar turned up with them.....   :forreal :forreal :forreal

    the Ugly - I loathe Valverde and his wheelsucking tactics but that was painful to watch yesterday, have to feel  for him you don't want to see that on the opening day of a GT, same goes for Izaguirre...
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  • latino

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    Re: The Good, The Bad and The Ugly
    « Reply #14 on: July 02, 2017, 21:19 »
    I love that this topic is catching on :)

    Tour de France 2017 - Stage 2

    The Good

     - Massive crown in bad weather, especially in Germany
     - Breakaway with +200km, caught just before entering the last km
     - Taylor Phinney taking 2 KOM and polka dot jersey
     - Many riders fighting for green jersey (intermediate sprint fight), not just Sagan
     - Favorites not losing any time
     - 3-second rule looking good, 161 riders ended with the same time, favorites after 30 riders

    The Bad

     - Bad weather during most of the stage
     - Contender for the most boring stage in TDF this year (200km of nothing, 2-3km of action)
     - The clock continues to miss the mark (freezing at times, and even putting Aru in the top 10 at the finish, anyone caught that too?)
     - I know I'm repeating myself, but so many riders in white...

    The Ugly

     - Big crash taking many riders including Froome, Bardet, and almost all the Katusha team
     - Durbridge abandons for crashing on the same corner as Valverde and Izaguirre in stage 1

    Cya tomorrow
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  • Armchair Cyclist

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    Re: The Good, The Bad and The Ugly
    « Reply #15 on: July 02, 2017, 21:35 »
    The ugly

    The look on Bardet's face
    The angle of the right arm of the other AG2R rider
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  • t-72

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    Re: The Good, The Bad and The Ugly
    « Reply #16 on: July 02, 2017, 21:50 »
    The ugly

    The look on Bardet's face
    The angle of the right arm of the other AG2R rider


    G. Thomas on the other hand, seems to be lying on his back in a meadow early in the fall, when nights get darker, and he's counting stars on the night sky. Quite relaxed, doesn't seem so?
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  • Mellow Velo

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    Re: The Good, The Bad and The Ugly
    « Reply #17 on: July 02, 2017, 22:03 »
    G. Thomas on the other hand, seems to be lying on his back in a meadow early in the fall, when nights get darker, and he's counting stars on the night sky. Quite relaxed, doesn't seem so?

    All while gently holding the FDJ rider's leg in the air. ;) :D
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  • Slapshot

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    Re: The Good, The Bad and The Ugly
    « Reply #18 on: July 02, 2017, 22:04 »
    The Good - the crowds, so much for Germany not loving cycling anymore, Gut Gemacht Dusseldorf und Deutschland

    The Bad - Carlton chuffing Kirby..... two days in I'm reaching for other methods of following the race... ES when Rob Hatch is on ITV4 when Kirby takes over, by Friday I'll be on to French TV and Eurosport France! With so many good younger ex pro's around the commentary scene there's no need for this clown; Rob Hatch, Matt Stephens, Dan Lloyd, Ant McCrossan etc etc.... get rid of Kirby!

    The Ugly - That bit of kerbing where the riders fell 25km out..... that looked grim and pleased no-one got hurt!

    Looking forward to Longwy tomorrow!
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  • t-72

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    Re: The Good, The Bad and The Ugly
    « Reply #19 on: July 02, 2017, 22:17 »
    All while gently holding the FDJ rider's leg in the air. ;) :D

    Nah, that foot is a long way in front! Thomas looks like he is completely by himself, lying there in the meadow, counting the stars in the night sky!
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  • latino

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    Re: The Good, The Bad and The Ugly
    « Reply #20 on: July 02, 2017, 22:47 »
    The ugly

    The look on Bardet's face
    The angle of the right arm of the other AG2R rider


    Amazing and terrifying photo at the same time.
    Kinda looks like a big game of twister, except the curb won.

    Froome is allright
    https://twitter.com/chrisfroome/status/881550403007119360

    So is Bardet
    https://twitter.com/romainbardet/status/881565568293273600
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  • « Last Edit: July 02, 2017, 23:02 by latino »

    Leadbelly

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    Re: The Good, The Bad and The Ugly
    « Reply #21 on: July 03, 2017, 10:34 »
    Easier to think of bad things rather than good ones. ;)

    The Bad

    Kristoff might have to take more than a 15% pay cut if 15th is the best he can do.

    Sagan's positioning is usually so good (it's him more often than not that appears at the last moment from behind), but yesterday he was completely in the wrong place. Did he trust his team too much to get him in a good position?
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  • Capt_Cavman

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    Re: The Good, The Bad and The Ugly
    « Reply #22 on: July 03, 2017, 11:27 »

    So is Bardet
    https://twitter.com/romainbardet/status/881565568293273600

    How is it a hexagon? Pentagon surely. Geometry is clearly not his strong point, hope his wheels are circular.
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  • LukasCPH

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    Re: The Good, The Bad and The Ugly
    « Reply #23 on: July 03, 2017, 16:56 »
    How is it a hexagon? Pentagon surely.
    Quoi?!
    France has always been called "l'hexagone" - and rightly so:
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  • Leadbelly

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    Re: The Good, The Bad and The Ugly
    « Reply #24 on: July 03, 2017, 17:31 »


     ;)

    .....and if we include Guadeloupe, Reunion etc the name will probably be l'rhombus
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  • LukasCPH

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    Re: The Good, The Bad and The Ugly
    « Reply #25 on: July 03, 2017, 17:45 »

    :P
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    Re: The Good, The Bad and The Ugly
    « Reply #26 on: July 03, 2017, 20:08 »
    Stage 3

    The Good - The last three Kms...... Sagan.... unclips 400m out but still wins the stage.. awesome ... Rob Hatch saving us from hours and hours of Kirby... the breakaway Lillian Calmejane lovely riding style maybe one to watch out for.

    The Bad - The previous 209.5 km.. Kirby talking rubbish again

    The Ugly - Can I mention Kirby's crap commentary again or Eurosports recipe of the day... Soup! I somehow think they didn't do justivce to Luxemburg... that was a wee bit ugly...  :lol :lol clutching at straws for this one can you tell
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  • t-72

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    Re: The Good, The Bad and The Ugly
    « Reply #27 on: July 03, 2017, 21:14 »
    Easier to think of bad things rather than good ones. ;)

    The Bad

    Kristoff might have to take more than a 15% pay cut if 15th is the best he can do.

    Sagan's positioning is usually so good (it's him more often than not that appears at the last moment from behind), but yesterday he was completely in the wrong place. Did he trust his team too much to get him in a good position?

    Katusha's move was to put the pressure on in the technical section with a bit of up and down some distance from the finish. If the speed bumps are large enough, it is possible to discard Kittel (at the price of having to deal with Sagan instead).  A quite short distance after they put the whole team in front, Hollenstein goes down in a roundabout - and the whole team and a few other teams as well. Kristoff didn't go down but punctured. If you are judging Kristoffs potential as a sprinter based on the finish yesterday, you are not going to place the winning bid,  so Kristoff will not be racing for Leadbelly-CottonFields next year, that seems certain  :P
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  • Flo

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    Re: The Good, The Bad and The Ugly
    « Reply #28 on: July 03, 2017, 22:05 »
    The Good

    Please show this photo to Oleg, his head would explode
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  • latino

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    Re: The Good, The Bad and The Ugly
    « Reply #29 on: July 03, 2017, 22:47 »
    Tour de France 2017 - Stage 3

    The Good

     - Good weather, finally
     - Amazing heli shots, with beautiful landscapes
     - BOTD with +200km (again)
     - Calmejane last to get caught at 10km to the finish, nice effort from him
     - Contador strong and hungry
     - Demare in the top 10, unexpected with that hard finish
     - Sagan unclipping, sprinting, winning and getting closer to the green jersey
     - Favorites not losing time and climbing to top 30 (except Pinot)

    The Bad

     - De Gendt without legs to break from bunch or hang on with the BOTD (one of my picks)
     - Pinot losing 3 min and giving up on the yellow jersey

    The Ugly

     - White graphics over light background, completely invisible
     - More riders crashing (13km to the finish, including Kiryienka)
     - News dominated by controversy around the usage of Vortex by Sky in stage 1 (Movistar used a similar fabric in the Giro)

    Sky's Vortex in the Tour


    Movistar's version in the Giro


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