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Echoes

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SUN 27 AUG: 92nd Schaal Sels
« on: August 19, 2017, 09:59 »


"A thing of beauty is a joy forever" William Butler Yeats :)




The Schaal Sels (formerly known as "Beker Sels, in French: "Coupe Sels", so "Sels Cup"; "Schaal" is another Dutch word for "Cup", though more like a "Platter" I would say. I don't know when the name changed but after all it doesn't matter) was created in 1921. As such it's one of the oldest still existing Belgian races. Among the older races are Liège-Bastogne-Liège (1892), Paris-Brussels (1893; existing in a vegetative coma though), the National championship (1894), the Schelde Prijs (1907), the Tour of Belgium (1908), the Championship of Flanders - Koolskamp (1908), the Stadsprijs Geraardsbergen (1912) and the Tour of Flanders (1913). Non-exhautive list but ...

The Walloon Arrow, the Omloop or the E3 Harelbeke are a lot more recent.

The race is named after Jacques-Charles Sels, a multilingual sport journalist who settled in Paris. In 1920 the French newspaper "Le journal" he worked for asked him to recognise the race Milan-Antwerp which was scheduled to finish on 10 August in Antwerp as an intro to the Antwerp Olympics. I don't know much about that race. Whether it was a stage race or not (there were stupendously long single-stage races in those, especially the Bordeaux-Paris-Bordeaux race held in that very year 1920). I don't even know the winner of the race. Possibly it even was cancelled but verification is needed. In any case, during that recognition, on 2 May 1920, the rear axle of Jacques-Charles Sels' car broke and he did not survive the crash. A man from Brussels Jacques Broeckx also was killed in that crash. Little is known about the latter but Victor Moons along with NIcole Verstrepen and Jacques Vrancken published two years ago a History of the Schaal Sels. For that book they were lucky enough to meet Sels' grandson, himself a very old man who had found memories of his grandfather but unfortunately he also passed away before the book was published. They also found back Sels' grave at the Père Lachaise Cemetery, Paris but sadly it was removed because the concession had expired. :( So now we do not know where he is ...




The French Wikipedia page of the Schaal Sels claims that Jacques-Charles Sels was a collaborator of Henri Desgrange. As he worked for about 17 newspapers or magazines, it might also include "L'auto" and that he invented the broomwagon !!!


"Le journal" wished to organise a race in his memory in Antwerp but it only took place a year later. In 1921! The deal was that the club of the winner should organise the 2nd edition but that did not seem to succeed, therefore there was no edition in 1922. One of the only 6 years the race was unheld (along with 1939, 1940, 1944, 1945 and 2014 because of "problems on the route"). So the 92nd edition will be held next Sunday.

In the pre-War era, some of the greatest Flandrian heroes put their names on its palmares: including first winner René Vermandel (1921 & 1923), Frans Bonduel (1930 & 1937) or Sylvère Maes (1933) or else the amazing talent from Antwerp Georges Ronsse (1925).

The Schaal Sels has always been held in the area of Anwerp. The first edition was in Wilrijk, in the Southern outskirts of the city. The 2nd edition started in and around Kapellen North of Antwerp (Mathieu Van der Poel's hometown) and since the 3rd edition in 1924, the race got to Merksem between Kapellen and Antwerp downtown, just East of Schoten where the Scheldeprijs finishes. The race has always been an Interclub race (which means that pros and amateurs raced together in clubs and not for pro teams) until 1996, which did not stop it from attracting great Belgian champion though as cycling internationalised after World War II, the Schaal Sels could not.

One old funny anecdote: In 1969 the Beker Sels should've been Jean-Pierre Monseré's very first race as a pros on 2 September. Jempi went cheerfully and well-groomed to the Antwerp region from his own Roeselaere and along with his good friend Roger De Vlaeminck whom he had just joined back at Flandria. Only everybody knew that the race started at "High Noon" (sic) but leaders of the Gentse Velosport (De Vlaeminck's club), of the Brugse Velosport (Monseré's club) and of Hoboken VAC. So that Jempi Monseré and Roger De Vlaeminck and about 15 riders  came to late to the start. De Vlaeminck took it rather lightly but Monseré found it so stupid as he had to postpone his debut as a pro. Anyway, just one month and 9 days later he was declared winner of the very first major classic he entered: the Tour of Lombardy.

The most prestigious winner is most probably Rik Van Looy in 1957, before he became "The Emperor of Herentals". His "protégé" Ward Sels won it in 1966 & 1968. Many thought that the "can opener" (named so because he would bring Van Looy back from the tail of the peloton towards the head of it before a sprint) had anything to do with this race but there does not seem to be any connection between him and Jacques-Charles. It's just a coincidence, he's a dual winner.

Frans Van Looy (also no relation to Rik) is the winner of the 1974 edition. He was a decent sprinter in the seventies. The current route is passing right before his farm which welcomes the riders to one of its hardest dirt road section.


In 1997, it was at last UCI sanctioned the 1.5 status, which was the lowest but one rank in the UCI ranking between 1989 and 2004. Then it was promoted to 1.4 the following year, whereby the field was strictly professional. In 2002 it had a 1.3 status. With the 2005 ProTour (nowadays World Tour) reform, it got the 1.1 status that it still has now (but it's not really a promotion from the 1.3 status it had before).

In the noughties, the race got a lot more attention as it got televised. Sporza covered the race in 2004. VT4 (now VIER) did so in 2004 and in 2007, the local Antwerp broadcaster ATV obtained the rights for it.

A dramatic event happened in 2006 when Christophe Brandt horrifically crashed ...

The day after Het Nieuwsblad predicted Christophe Brandt's career end. He came back in 2007 until 2010. But the injuries he had makes you shudder:

a burst spleen, a torn kidney artery whereby he lost a kidney (but his spleen could be saved), four fractured ribs, one of them having perforated his lung and finally a broken humerus. Given the extent of his injuries, the Walloon rider was brought into artificial coma for three days.
http://www.dhnet.be/sports/cyclisme/christophe-brandt-opere-d-urgence-a-perdu-un-rein-51b7c2b4e4b0de6db98c64a2
http://www.nieuwsblad.be/cnt/g7710sp3u

--------

In 2015 the Schaal Sels got facelifted for the better or the worse. The organisers tried to improve the race's attractivity with dirt roads besides cobbles (already existing on the former route). Yet the first edition of the Schaal Sels "new look" got internationally known for the tragi-comical incident in which the jury car got stuck in a maize field!



One year later Ben Simons - the organiser of the race along with the "Koninklijke Wielrijdersclub van Merksem" gave some explanation about the incident, admitting that some sections were chaotic but was due to a massive storm on the previous night that transformed some dirt roads into real mud baths and yet there were no complaints from the part of the riders.

Something only went wrong when an official car landed in a maize field and thereby held off some riders. There was alternative route planned for commissars but communication lapses accounted for the mishap.

See a Gazet van Antwerpen Article that I shared last year on the race's preview thread.

Despite the trouble, Schaal Sels was elected "Route of the Year" by Velonews in January 2016: http://www.nieuwsblad.be/cnt/dmf20160111_02061077

One rider animated the last two editions and that is no other than Cyclocross World Champion Wout Van Aert. In 2015 the rider of Lille was first of all hard working to catch lone leader Jelle Wallays with 40km to go along with three other riders (they were caught with less than 10km to go). On the following picture you can see Wout with Tim Declercq:



Quote
Until the neutralization, everything was okay. I even found it unique to take part in it. But then, all of a sudden, we stumbled on a wall of police agents. The race had to be re-shuffled. We stood still, didn't know why and knew even less where we were. Never seen that. But all things considered it was a very enjoyable race. It was only hard for us rider to orientate. At some point you race on normal roads, then on something that lies between asphalt and a cross route. You will not hear any complaints from me. So I give a "yes" for this race. But then without neutralisation. The standstill came at a moment we were giving it full gas.

Said Wout Van Aert.

We should not forget that the race was won by the Walloon (then) stagiair for Wanty Groupe Gobert Robin Stenuit! He outsprinted a rider who  has made a name for himself since ... Mr Oliver Naesen...

But Naesen's post-race comment is very interesting in light of what we've seen from him since:
Quote
I already knew that Stenuit was faster than I was.
Same certitude for Robin Stenuit:
Quote
I knew that I was faster than Naesen was and just kept taking turn along. Then I even started the sprint from far away and all in all I could hold him off quite comfortably.


It's amazing when you think that Oliver Naesen recently outsprinted Sep Vanmarcke, Jasper Stuyven and Jens Keukeleire at the Belgian Nats. You'd wonder if Robin Stenuit could do the same !!!

http://www.schaalsels.be/uploads/pers2015/20150831_GVA_Stenuit_VanAert.pdf

Last year the route was made harder: 34 cobble km and 33 of them on dirt roads compared to 30 and 19 resp. in 2015. Besides Ben Simons experienced a 6-rider per team limit rule. I don't know if the experience will be extended this year.

Baptiste Planckaert initiated the decisive 11-man breakaway with 60km to go. With 25km to go Stijn Steels attacked but was countered by Wout Van Aert alone. A small incident between both riders made Van Aert set foot on the ground and lost time and so 6 riders came back with him and joined Steels. Wout Van Aert attacked on the last dirt road section and won solo ahead of Timothy Dupont and Stijn Steels.



His win got widely known in Belgium as he was awarded a "Black Angus" calf from an organic farming factory "De Biopolder" and wanted to have it as meat.:( Since that was not the plan, and he has no know-how about farming (his uncle and grandpa do) the calf's life was saved. :) Some animal-protection charities such as Gaia or animal loving Flemish actors like Frank Bomans tried to dissuade him. Eventually the animal was left in his farm and Wout was considering the matter after the next cyclocross season. I have no news of what happened to the calf since. Would love to. :)

From a Gazet van Antwerpen Article on 5 September 2016

----------------

Nature - Countryside - Village - Cobbles - Gravel - Wind - Wonderful Locations - Start & Finish in Merksem



Ben Simons wishes to make his race ever more popular and attractive. This year's race will start right in front of the "Havenhuis" in Merksem and not on the Bredabaan like last year though the latter remains finish place. http://www.gva.be/cnt/dmf20170817_03021586/schaal-sels-begint-dit-jaar-aan-nieuw-havenhuis



As of now I still don't know about the off road distance compared to last year but the technical guide is here and the map here. It looks like there's also an "intrusion" on the Dutch territory.

Also regarding the route: many sections of the Schaal Sels have been added even more cobbles, more sand and gravel (Last December). I don't know what to think of this: https://www.facebook.com/events/1314710298561344/

On the race day there's also a Junior race on the final lap while the pros are doing the "grand tour".

The startlist will be made official here when known.

On 23 May Schaal Sels organisers hoped for a new chapter in the ink-flowing rivalry between Wout Van Aert & Mathieu Van der Poel. At that time, Schaal Sels was on Mathieu Van der Poel's August agenda along with Dwars door het Hageland and the Tou of the Limousin. Unfortunately, during the Tour of the Limousin Mathieu Van der Poel announced that that very race was his last one on the road in 2017. 

So I guess the local Antwerp broadcaster ATV still owns the rights and last year's was live covered as you can still see on YT (clip above). Hopefully it will be streamed live this year as well. ;)
 
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  • « Last Edit: August 19, 2017, 13:01 by Francois the Postman »
    "Paris-Roubaix is the biggest cycling race in the world, bigger than the Tour de France, bigger than any other bike race" (Sir Bradley Wiggins)

    Echoes

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    Re: SUN 27 AUG: 92nd Schaal Sels
    « Reply #1 on: August 20, 2017, 11:12 »
    http://www.directvelo.com/actualite/60605/dernier-rendez-vous-sur-route-pour-laurens-sweeck

    So apparently Directvélo claims that the GP Jef Scherens is Laurens Sweeck's last 2017 road race. So no Schaal Sels for him, actually. He wants to have a good start of the cyclocross campaign because the season start is defining, gives a good dynamic and enables you to approach the rest of it with less stress.


    Let me share this other presentation of the Schaal Sels (in 100 seconds!) ;)

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    Re: SUN 27 AUG: 92nd Schaal Sels
    « Reply #2 on: August 21, 2017, 20:46 »
    So a new (Dutch) article (posted today) suggests that after all Mathieu Van der Poel might be in after all and wonders whether he or arch-rival Wout Van Aert would win.  :S

    http://internetbode.nl/woensdrecht/wint-mathieu-poel-jaar-schaal-sels-304779
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    Re: SUN 27 AUG: 92nd Schaal Sels
    « Reply #3 on: August 24, 2017, 21:50 »
    A first provisional startlist has been published on the race's official website.

     http://www.schaalsels.be/uploads/20170824_Belgdian_Cycling_Deelnemers_Schaal_Sels.pdf

    It not only seems that Mathieu Van der Poel is absent but also his team Beobank Corendon.  :S

    Nice to have a World Tour team, this year: LottoNL-Jumbo.  :cool

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    Re: SUN 27 AUG: 92nd Schaal Sels
    « Reply #4 on: August 25, 2017, 18:33 »
    ATV streams it live too !!! I hope for you that it's not geoblocked. You can see it live on the Nieuwsblad website: http://www.nieuwsblad.be/cnt/dmf20170825_03034833

    :win

    A mix of Paris-Roubaix and the Strade bianche, they call it.  :cool

    The streaming starts at "High Noon" (sic) [12.00 CET], which means that the race is covered from start to finish !!!


    Gazet van Antwerpen says it can be followed on every regional TV broadcasters.



    http://www.gva.be/cnt/dmf20170824_03033608/schaals-sels-te-volgen-op-alle-regionale-tv-zenders
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  • « Last Edit: August 25, 2017, 18:48 by Echoes »

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    Re: SUN 27 AUG: 92nd Schaal Sels
    « Reply #5 on: August 27, 2017, 11:07 »
    http://www.bndestem.nl/wielrennen/schaal-sels-stofhappen-of-modderploegen~a8fa4311/


    For 90 years, the Schaal Sels was like any other Flemish races, with start and finish in Merksem. Jacques-Charles Sels was a sport journalist from Antwerp who passed away in 1920 and got this race as tribute.

    The riders were making kilometers on "his" over a flat route with few obstacles. In the end there usually was a bunch sprint and often a Belgian one. Wilfried Nelissen and Kris Boeckmans are among the sprinters in the palmares among other greats such as Rik Van Looy, Herman Vanspringel or Edwig Van Hooydonck.

    But in 2015, the tide was turning for the Schaal Sels. Inspired by the success of the Strade Bianche in Tuscany, it's been decided to go and seek some dirt road section in the North of the Port of Antwerp area.

    New Style

    The first "new look" edition of the Schaal Sels experienced a few youth mistakes. That is how a jury car driving ahead got stuck in a maize field whereby the peloton could not go further. Perhaps Robin Stenuit was a rather unknown name [for those who are not in touch with Belgian cycling at least !!] but with Wout Van Aert things went back in order after that.

    What really above all fascinated what the way it unfolded. No more long awaited bunch sprints but thrilling situation changes after every sand or cobble sections or any corners.

    Competition

    That is what the spectators are coming for and riders are also coming to Merksem today despite competition from the Tour of Spain and the GP Plouay.

    With LottoNL-Jumbo there is a World Tour Team in the peloton but also Roompot Oranje Peloton and Wout Van Aert with his Vastgoedservice Crelan [sic, actually Veranda's Willems]. Stan Godrie *nl of Zundert is Van Aert's teammate and appreciates a race like the Schaal Sels.

    Quote
    As a cyclocrosser I of course feel at home on such routes. We start with all four of our cyclocrossers [Stan Godrie, Wout Van Aert, Tim Merlier & Jappe Jaspers, they are] and I expect we should take the race in hands.
    Zundert is not far away [it is also Jelle Nijdam's hometown :cool] but Stan hasn't recognised them, he admitted but knows some of them and is motivated.

    Other organisers saw the race's popularity. After the route change, Dwars door het Hageland followed with a pack of dirt road section and in the Netherlands, the Slag om Norg - also over non-asphalt roads - became a pro race after a few years [it is an older race though but for the first time UCI sanctioned in 2016]. Even Ghent-Wevelgem experimented with a sand path.

    Stan Godrie thinks that it's not a problem to have more races on dirt roads though it should not get over the top
    Quote
    I'm encouraging such races. It is spectacular for the public and of course it is good for me because I can do well offroad but there should remain a good alternance between normal races and such races. Not every races should consider getting dirt roads on its route.

    A Loop Through the "Zuidwesthoek"  *nl

    The Schaal Sels is mainly raced around the smokes of the Port of Antwerp. About 30km of the total 189 ones to cover are on dirt roads. [...]

    Underway there is a small 30km passage inside the "Zuidwesthoek" [South West Corner]. Around Ossendrecht, the riders are crossing the [Dutch] border after what the riders a making a big loop through the Brabantian-Zeelandic polders [not sure "Zeelandic is the right word in English though]. Thereby the rider are taking the cobbles of Hogerwaardweg [1700m; already in the route last year, it is situated around the town of Rilland and used to be a part of the "late" World Port Classic]. The riders are entering the Netherlands around 1.00pm and around 1.45pm they are getting back to Belgium.
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    Re: SUN 27 AUG: 92nd Schaal Sels
    « Reply #6 on: August 28, 2017, 20:03 »
    As good as it gets and as good as expected.  :cool

    Nice to have Frank Hoste in the commentary box again. Franklin Six, the Walloon rider - Jean-Luc Vandenbroucke's nephew - speaks Dutch very well.  :cool

    With about 70km to go Justin Jules was in the lead. You all know his story but it was nice to see Martijn Budding in the chase behind him for a brief moment. Budding was the "main" rival of Mathieu Van der Poel in the latter's last junior year in cyclocross, especially at the Louisville World Championship. Though well, I mean, the closest to be a "rival" to Mathieu at that time.  :D (while Van Aert was U23).

    The Torenseweg is really a nice cobbled section. It does not pale in comparison with the Paris-Roubaix cobbles. Frank Hoste gave it 4 stars, which means just below the Arenberg Forest.

    With 40km to go, the decisive escape took shape with Wout Van Aert, Stijn Devolder, Tim Merlier, all from Veranda's Willems, Amund Grondahl Jansen  #jumbo , Justin Jules was still there from Wallonia-Brussels  #wbva along with teammates: Ludwig De Winter and Lukas Spengler and then Taco Van der Hoorn of Roompot  #roompot.

    A few kilometers further, Taco Van der Hoorn punctured and then so did Stijn Devolder. That way, Roompot started to chase behind along with Sport Vlaanderen. With 23km to go they cut the gap to ~20" and so with the help of a dirt road section Taco Van der Hoorn did the rest all by himself and got back to the lead group. It was a beautiful section. A lot of corners! I think it was the "Kabeljauwpad" ("Cod Path", the name made me laugh :D).

    In the meantime, Justin Jules dropped. At first, you would see him standing still, so either he had a mechanical or some terrible cramps. A few k's further he missed a turn and got straight to the ditch. It really was over and out for him.

    Then in the finale, Taco attacked once but got caught. Then Wout Van Aert attacked from last position, first letting a few meters between him and the group in order to get unnoticed. Nicely done. It looked like he was going fr a back to back win but in the final kilometer Taco Van der Hoorn got alone in the chase, caught Van Aert and outsprinted him. What a performance!

    Taco confirmed that his 2nd place to Mathieu Van der Poel, ahead of Van Aert at Dwars door het Hageland was no one-hit wonder. He's barely 21 and I think he's not gonna stay at Roompot for long.  :) I also seem to remember him in last year's edition but my memory might have lapses.  :D

    Wout Van Aert was not at the top of his form either. He explained in the post-race interview that his attack was not really with a personal win in mind. He just wanted to place Tim Merlier in the best possible position for the sprint, Tim being reputedly faster than he is in the sprint.

    Jansen  *no is also confirming his Druivenkoers performance.  ;)



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    Re: SUN 27 AUG: 92nd Schaal Sels
    « Reply #7 on: August 29, 2017, 09:03 »
    I would like to bring in some thoughts. On Vélo-Club.net some would tell me that they would quickly get bored with these dirt road races because it becomes some sort of a hype and that every race is copying one another, etc.

    I think it's a sad thing to say. It's true that the Montepaschi Strade Bianche has brought a new trend in the calendar. Tro Bro Léon is an even older race, much older but has long not been copied but the success of the Strade Bianche gave ideas for new race routes in Belgium in particular and in the Netherlands. Slag om Norg *nl was created 7 years after the Strade but long remained small. Then the Schaal Sels revolutionised its route in 2015. Then Dwars door het Hageland came back with dirt roads on its route. Then Ghent-Wevelgem introduced a dirt section while Mount Kemmel remains the decider in the race. It now seems that the Tour of the Limousin has dirt roads on its route. Is that true?

    Anyway, my point is, first of all these races also have their specificity. Schaal Sels is a has a mix of dirt roads and cobbles. The Hageland, mixes dirt roads, cobbles and climbs. Tro Bro Léon, has dirt roads but also some climbs and I don't think the Breton "ribins" are comparable to Belgian dirt roads either. Slag om Norg just has dirt roads. Strade bianche has dirt roads and climbs but the Italian dirt roads are definitely different to Northern dirt roads. They are white.  ;)

    Besides, I'm wondering what the problem is with every race emulating each other. I mean those people don't see any problem with stage races using the same mountain passes or same type of, single-day races with the same 3km to 6km "Ardennes-type" climbs and then all these Flandrian spring races using exactly the same cobbled climbs.

    So why not bring in some dirt road sections! At least they are all different and they make movement possible. Look at what it did to Schaal Sels! No more long-awaited sprint (see article above). In my opinion, every race can introduce some. I think Lefevere was the one willing to restrict it to just a few races last year. I know. He's a buffoon.  ;)
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    Re: SUN 27 AUG: 92nd Schaal Sels
    « Reply #8 on: August 29, 2017, 21:03 »
    http://www.directvelo.com/actualite/60841/ludwig-de-winter-a-peu-dormi

    An interview of Ludwig De Winter on Directvélo. Remember that despite his Christian name + last name, he's Walloon.  ;)



    Ludwig De Winter Hasn't Slept a Lot

    The Schaal Sels is a peculiar race in the Belgian calendar: cobbles, dirt roads, ... and punctures. Ludwig De Winter was sixth last Sunday and punctured four times.
    Quote
    I'm not the only one to get hit by bad luck but I've had my share of it. The last one annoyed me most.

    While in the lead group, the rider WB-Veranclassic-Aqua Protect had a mechanical with about 9km to go.
    Quote
    At the worst moment. After that my race was over and out. On top of that all dirt road sections were behind us. I cannot know what could have happened if I hadn't punctured. If I were 6th in the sprint, that was no problem because I would have been at my place but here I am 6th out of bad luck. It's frustrating. I had a bad night, almost couldn't sleep.[ I had great sensation. Really I have a feel my day was not complete. I had done the hardest when I kept up with the leaders. After the second and third punctures I got back very quickly, while the first one cost a lot of energy. I needed 25km to get back.

    He even could rely on the help of his brother Gordon racing for AGO-Aqua Service.
    Quote
    He solaced me a little bit. It pleased me because we did not have much chances to race together this season. He's been injured and we do not have the same agenda. Unfortunately for him, I caught Olivier Pardini who increased the speed and he could not keep up.

    A Liberating Success in Erpe-Mere

    Ludwig De Winter felt strongly about keeping the winning mood after his win three days earlier at the kermess of Erpe-Mere [so he followed Oliver Naesen up in the palmarès ;)]

    A liberating success for the Walloon "baroudeur":
    Quote
    My season start did not unfold as I had wished. I had good enough condition to do my domestique job but I did not feel good enough to do a "De Winter" style race, which means attacking, an attrition-like kind of race. I've kept on working and felt better these last few weeks. Erpe-Mere was just a confirmation. It will liberate me for the last part of the season.

    Offensive on the Next Races

    Ludwig De Winter should thus be offensive on the September races and most of all in October at "his" race: Binche-Chimay-Binche.
    Quote
    The Schaal Sels frustration will give me extra energy for the next races. In September there are sprint races. It will be hard to go and catch a result. However Eurométropole Tour and Binche-Chimay-Binche, these are attrition races. It's a bit more unbridled. I may consider a result. Podiuming in Binche-Chimay-Binche is an absolute dream.
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    Re: SUN 27 AUG: 92nd Schaal Sels
    « Reply #10 on: August 30, 2017, 21:17 »
    Comment found on Cyclingtips:

    Quote
    widdleknees • 9 hours ago
    Well... I think the organizer made a race too challenging. How many wheels, bones, bikes/equipment was broken from this low level UCI race?

    https://cyclingtips.com/2017/08/photo-gallery-dust-beauty-2017-schaal-sels

    Stupid! It's only low level for those who don't know what cycling means in Belgium... Besides, if you go back to the early years of cycle racing, every races were on such roads and there was also a lot of damage to the equipment.


    I'm very fond of these "rural" pictures.  ;)



    By the way if you are motivated you can rewatch the race's full coverage on Youtube.  :cool

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    [Games]
    just some guy
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    topic The Italian Autumn Classics (Coppa Agostoni)
    [Road Races]
    RayCip
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