collapse


t-72

  • National Champion
  • Country: no
  • Posts: 953
  • Liked: 1475
Wrap up the Vuelta!
« on: September 11, 2017, 21:36 »
So, the lights are off, everybody's gone home, maybe you have some thoughts now, how good was this race really?

I will start with a reflection on the awards ceremony  :D

https://twitter.com/cyclinghubtv/status/907329918652035073

Edit: above tweet did not resolve (at least not in my browser). Here is a picture of the fruit bowl instead:


That's pretty much not a trophy for a 3-week tour.

Now, this is a trophy worth 3 weeks of hard work:

(attribution: Di Fabio - Partenza Giro d'Italia Modena (24 di 67), CC BY 2.0, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=19432876)
  • ReplyReply
  • « Last Edit: September 11, 2017, 21:52 by t-72 »

    Servais Knavendish

    • 2nd Year Pro
    • Country: gb
    • Posts: 341
    • Liked: 307
    Re: Wrap up the Vuelta!
    « Reply #1 on: September 11, 2017, 22:02 »
    Yes good point in that the Giro trophy is a thing of beauty... [as an aside so beautiful that the new world series boxing has shamelessly ripped it off]  but in reality its the jersey that matters isnt it...





  • ReplyReply

  • t-72

    • National Champion
    • Country: no
    • Posts: 953
    • Liked: 1475
    Re: Wrap up the Vuelta!
    « Reply #2 on: September 11, 2017, 23:08 »
    You know it is not my job to comment the jerseys on this board...

    We have a pro that takes care of such business :)

    More seriously, to the race itself:
    1) cool TTT opening stage
    2) very few good sprints because all the good Matteo Trentin challengers were 1) not in shape 2) not in the race 3) about to catch the stomach bug that was doin the rounds... and then 4) there wasn't a lot of good sprint stages either...
    3) if you want to win a GC, you need to stay healthy for 21 days while racing quite hard. It is difficult, especially if there are infections passed around in the peloton/team.
    4) you also need to learn to ride a time trial if not as good as Chris Froome then at least half way decent
    5) if you want to win you also need to climb not as good as Chris Froome but at least halft way decent almost there, every day with an uphill finish
    6) you don't have to stay upright all the time, but if you fall only skin damage is possible to get away with in the long run. A real injury = forget it.
    6) an above average team obviously helps sustaining this level of effort

    Failures classified:
    1) Alberto Contador couldn't win because of 3) which resulted in 5) being a problem too and then 4) would still be a problem
    2) Vincenzo Nibali lost time in some odd places but it is really 4) (itt) and also 5) (climbing)
    3) Zakharin, same as Nibali
    4) Kelderman, same as Nibali
    Then there's a bunch of good climbers performing inconsistently throughout the 21 days and not time trialing good enough to win GC if there is an ace time trialist in contention. (Orica, Astana, Cannondale, etc...)

    Conclusion: even with a modest amount of time trialing it dominates the results, because there either wasn't any super-climber on board (Chaves, Yatesx2, Aru and Bardet would qualify, but this wasn't their in-shape impersonations...) or the super time-trial riders are quite good at climbing too. A combination, perhaps...

    And no, TJVan Garderen doesn't look like typical win-a-3-week-race-candidate anymore. Neither does Dennis :(

  • ReplyReply

  • LukasCPH

    • World Champion
    • *
    • Country: de
    • Posts: 10106
    • Liked: 6055
      • lukascph.media
    • Awards: Staff of the year 2016Staff of the year 2015Velorooms Tour de France BINGO champion 2014National Championships Predictions Game Winner 2014Velorooms Monday Quiz ChampionPoster of the Year 2013
    Re: Wrap up the Vuelta!
    « Reply #3 on: September 12, 2017, 09:43 »
    Edit: above tweet did not resolve (at least not in my browser).
    Sometimes they decide to do (or rather, not do) that. Reloading should fix it, though, and it should load for others.
  • ReplyReply
  • 2017 0711|CYCLING PR Manager; 2016 Stölting Content Editor
    Views presented are my own.
    RIP Keith

    stereojet

    • 2nd Year Pro
    • Country: wales
    • Posts: 339
    • Liked: 298
    • I'm still learning the ropes
    Re: Wrap up the Vuelta!
    « Reply #4 on: September 12, 2017, 10:18 »
    Personally, I couldn't get past the ludicrous Sky performance, Moscon and Poels especially. I enjoyed a few of the stages but it soon became apparent that Froome was still on superhuman form, and everybody else was simply hanging on in the hope of a stage or a podium. His sprint in the final stage was particularly annoying too.
  • ReplyReply

  • LukasCPH

    • World Champion
    • *
    • Country: de
    • Posts: 10106
    • Liked: 6055
      • lukascph.media
    • Awards: Staff of the year 2016Staff of the year 2015Velorooms Tour de France BINGO champion 2014National Championships Predictions Game Winner 2014Velorooms Monday Quiz ChampionPoster of the Year 2013
    Re: Wrap up the Vuelta!
    « Reply #5 on: September 12, 2017, 10:47 »
    Personally, I couldn't get past the ludicrous Sky performance, Moscon and Poels especially.
    Poels I get, but Moscon? In his U23 he was a classics rider, and Sky have turned him into a second coming of their EBH, only even better on the climbs.
    That's what bothers me the most: If #sky signed the best diesel climbers in the world, having an overwhelming mountain train wouldn't be a surprise. But they take decent, not great, riders of all types (ITT machine, classics hardman, you name it) and transform them into mountain locomotives. That is plainly not normal.
  • ReplyReply

  • Mellow Velo

    • Road Captain
    • Country: wales
    • Posts: 1977
    • Liked: 1721
    • Awards: 2015 CQ Vuelta Game winnerVelogames Classics Champion 20142013 CQ Ranking Giro Game
    Re: Wrap up the Vuelta!
    « Reply #6 on: September 12, 2017, 11:37 »
    Personally, I couldn't get past the ludicrous Sky performance, Moscon and Poels especially.

     I know that many folks see it that way, but in fairness, it seemed to me at least that other teams were pretty eager to take up the pace setting.
    Sky, on the other hand, seemed quite prepared to let all the breakaways go out to many minutes, while they plodded along at an average speed in the mid 30s, for km after km.
     They were rarely to be seen on the front until final ascents and then, quite often, behind 39 year old Franco Pellizotti.
    On the Angliru, there were 5 Sky domestiques. He managed to drop them all, bar Poels, came back to the front group and still finished 5th.
    Nobody seems to have a problem with his performance.
    Poels has solid climbing credentials and was saved for the second half of the race.

     



    Post Merge: September 12, 2017, 12:05
    Poels I get, but Moscon? In his U23 he was a classics rider, and Sky have turned him into a second coming of their EBH, only even better on the climbs.
    That's what bothers me the most:That is plainly not normal.

     Yet for many folks, Tom Dumoulin is the second coming, GT wise.
    A classics rider who began to climb the big mountains at the age of 24 and is now touted as the next big TDF champion in waiting.
    Finished 6th in the GP Montreal, aged 23.
    Moscon also finished 6th, aged 22.
    Also at 22, he won this:



     My point is that it is not really viable to pigeon hole riders at a very young age.
     
  • ReplyReply
  • « Last Edit: September 12, 2017, 12:06 by Mellow Velo »
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.

    stereojet

    • 2nd Year Pro
    • Country: wales
    • Posts: 339
    • Liked: 298
    • I'm still learning the ropes
    Re: Wrap up the Vuelta!
    « Reply #7 on: September 12, 2017, 15:24 »
    Fair enough, those are good points. I'd not looked at it from that perspective.
  • ReplyReply

  • hiero

    • Road Captain
    • Country: us
    • Posts: 1140
    • Liked: 837
    Re: Wrap up the Vuelta!
    « Reply #8 on: September 12, 2017, 20:03 »
    Well, there was this:
    https://twitter.com/CiclismoInter/status/906928303822569472

    Which is beautiful and fun.


    As for the rest of the conversation, MV is right, when Sky didn't need to be on the front, they typically weren't on the front. Other teams often wanted the pace to be higher for one reason or another. In past years, riders and teams have essentially commited on-the-road seppuku by riding against each other instead of against Sky. However, that trend seems to have diminished since Formigal, last year.

    If I were a Froome fan, I suppose I would have enjoyed this Vuelta. But for me, this year's Giro was better, and the Tour was 2nd.
  • ReplyReply
  • Eeyore sez . . .

    Ram

    • Grand Tour Winner
    • Country: 00
    • Posts: 7859
    • Liked: 948
    • Awards: Best Opening Post 2012Member you would most like to meet in real life 2012
    Re: Wrap up the Vuelta!
    « Reply #9 on: September 13, 2017, 04:43 »
    Poels I get, but Moscon? In his U23 he was a classics rider, and Sky have turned him into a second coming of their EBH, only even better on the climbs.
    That's what bothers me the most: If #sky signed the best diesel climbers in the world, having an overwhelming mountain train wouldn't be a surprise. But they take decent, not great, riders of all types (ITT machine, classics hardman, you name it) and transform them into mountain locomotives. That is plainly not normal.
    To add to Mellow's point - Bob Jungels. Time trialist and classics rider in his young days to now beating Adam Yates in the Giro.

    As it is, I enjoyed the Vuelta. Enjoyed Contador's finale and Froome's show. Shame that Nibali crashed on the descent, though. May have cost Contador the stage win, but would've been a nice climax.
  • ReplyReply

  • Leadbelly

    • Monument Winner
    • *
    • Country: gb
    • Posts: 5914
    • Liked: 5182
    • Awards: National Championships Predictions Game Winner 2017National Championships Predictions Game Winner 2016KeithJamesMC award 2016Avatar of the year 2015Velogames Spring Classics 2015National Championships Predictions Game Winner 2014
    Re: Wrap up the Vuelta!
    « Reply #10 on: September 13, 2017, 08:46 »
    Pretty awful race for Orica.

    Chaves looked great in the first week, permanently glued to Froome's back wheel on those early climbs, but it was downhill from stage 11. The much heralded Cerberus was just a tired old mutt with all three riders looking very fatigued. Adam Yates was probably the biggest disappointment as he should have been a bit more fresh as he rode the Giro and not the Tour. Will we see all three double up again next year? I doubt it.

    The other minus for the team during the race was not giving MCN the opportunity to contest the early sprints. Okay you want to protect your GC riders, but you don't need everybody for that.

    Uncertain times anyway for the team. Ryan having to bankroll the team again as no sponsors want to step up. Aussie climbers on the development team signing for European rivals. Why do they see that as the better choice? Something for the team to ponder.
  • ReplyReply

  •  



    Top
    Back to top