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just some guy

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Operation Aderlass
« on: March 03, 2019, 07:26 »

All news on the Austrian blood doping investigation






























https://www.twitter.com/inrng/status/1102106467660906497
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  • « Last Edit: March 04, 2019, 16:51 by just some guy »
    Of course, if this turns out someday to be the industry standard integrated handlebar-computer-braking solution then I'll eat my kevlar-reinforced aerodynamic hat.

    Larri Nov 12, 2014

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    Re: Stefan Denifl blood doping confession
    « Reply #1 on: March 03, 2019, 08:11 »
    by the look of it, it's a follow up of the Cross Country case, and (same as the two Austrian skiers) Denifl was a customer of Dr. Schmidt in Erfurt.

    https://tirol.orf.at/news/stories/2967760/
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    Re: Stefan Denifl blood doping confession
    « Reply #2 on: March 03, 2019, 10:31 »
    The bio passport is working! No more blood doping in either skiing or cycling, the bio passport frontier. Now lets wait for the football and athletics small fish. Kommende Woche dürfte Skandal weiter eskalieren
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  • just some guy

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    I just read the whole interview, and I think I would call in a confession ("Das Geständnis" is actually the headline of the article even  ;)).

    Here are the key parts from it:

    "There's no one forcing you to do it, but the pressures in sports is enormous. Every two years there's the contract cycle, not knowing whether you'll still have a job next year or not. You're starting to worry. And when hearing that everyone else is doing it as well anyway, at some point the inhibition threshold falls."

    "In my case, it fell just recently. After thoroughly thinking it through, I decided to make this massive mistake"

    "Living with the knowledge of cheating is like hell. I don't know how others manage to do this, I just had to go public now. I just couldn't stand it anymore"

    "I was just stupid. It's like thimblerig. You see three guys winning all the time, and although you know that they are cheating, after some time you want to try it as well."

    "I never did anything before, never cheated. My performances were quite good, and that's how these people get notice of you. They contact you and say things like 'at this and that race, everyone ahead of you was doing something', and that's were you start thinking about it: you do everything you can, check your food and everything, but in the end you're still the pranked one. At some point, enough is enough."

    "Yes [, it was them who contacted me]. Yes, [it, is the same doping circle as in the Seefeld story]."

    "I only did the blood sampling. But this alone is punishable. And in my opinion, even just being in touch with him, is an offence anyway. He [Dr Schmidt] is a well known person."

    "No [, I don't know what effect it would have had]. But I image that it's massive."

    "I don't know [if my name would have come up in the investigations], or to how extend the doctor covered things up. You don't get any information about the system itself. He is not a dumb guy, and doing this for many years. But I just couldn't sit at home and wait anymore, that's not how I am."

    "I don't expect and sympathy, nor do I want it."

    "The confession is both [a whitewashing, as well as an act out of conviction]. I din something wrong, and I want to be honest. It was the biggest mistake of my life."

    "I can imagine that there's much more to come, it was a big, international [doping] network."

    "It's very easy, completely automated. He comes to visit you at a place he thinks is suitable [which was not in Erfurt nor at my home in Graz], Full service, you could say."

    "I'm expecting the worst now, I have lost all credit."

    [About facing a four year ban]: "My career is over now, no matter what. When I read about the Seefeld stuff in the media, I immediately knew that I'll never have anything to do with elite sports again. My intention was never to become a pro by the way. At some point, I just slid into it."

    "Not everyone is doping of course. But the next weeks will show what's up."

    "Yes [, my achievements in sports was attained clean], and I'm proud of that. But that's exactly how those people take notice of you."

    "There was always just missing a little bit [to achieve more]. Everything needs to fit together for that to happen - and I saw others, where it almost always did. It's not supposed to be an excuse. It's just dumb to be that greedy. You need to be satisfied with what you have."

    "Only later on you recognize what you have done. You get is some kind of tunnel, thinking "he's doing it as well", giving you a feeling of security."

    "Yes [, I am a cheater]. I had fraudulent intentions and thoughts. But I don't feel like a criminal."

    "Nobody deserves any pity, everyone knows the rules. But seeing the top brass hammering at the small ones... well, the fish starts to stink from the head, you say. In every sports there are officials who have a skeleton in their closet. The young people coming through are great, but those old ones at the top ruin everything. That's the problem."

    "Ultimately, I want to apologize to everyone, who feels hurt or cheated by me. Apologize to everyone, who had looked up to me. I am sorry. That's all I can say."
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    there's another article in the newspaper, stating that Schmidt apparently offered that "full-service" at something between 8 and 15000 EUR a year.

    Which sounds incredibly cheap, doesn't it?!
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    Re: Stefan Denifl blood doping confession
    « Reply #6 on: March 04, 2019, 09:05 »
    On December 23, at 22:54, CCC Team issued a statement declaring that Denifl's contract has been dissolved due to personal reasons. He was later replaced by another rider.

    "It never went anywhere. He said that he had some personal issues and so that was the end of it. He said that they were personal and with his family, so that's his business," Ochowicz told Cyclingnews in Kuurne.

    "He said it had nothing to do with sport but to do with his family business. It was something with his wife, and then something with his father, and sister. I didn't ask a lot of questions. He said he wasn't able to do this [join the team]. So I said okay, fair enough."

    [...]

    According to Ochowicz, his medical team found nothing suspicious with Denifl's data.

    "That looked okay, sure. We wouldn't have signed him if there were any red flags."


    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/ochowicz-no-red-flags-in-denifls-biological-passport/
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  • just some guy

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    Yep. Which probably indicates he has a lot of customers
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    I'm not really sure what to make out of this. Overall, he had a good season last year. He was a great dom for Pinot in the Giro and took his first ever vicotry as a pro in the Tour de Pologne. Sure there was a late setback with the health struggles costing him the Vuelta and a good results at the World Championships, but I'd guess he did enough before to get a decent contract prolongement.

    On paper, lying now wouldn't make much sense though. The doctor has agreed to fully cooperate, so the truth (about re-infusing the blood or not) is likely to come out anyway. And pretty soon.

    But on the other hand, it could also be that Preidler just wasn't ready for the whole truth yet of course. He has managed to come to the decision to get public and end his career as a cyclist - but admitting that everything you ever achieved is a lie is on another level, I think.

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  • LukasCPH

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    there's another article in the newspaper, stating that Schmidt apparently offered that "full-service" at something between 8 and 15000 EUR a year.

    Which sounds incredibly cheap, doesn't it?!
    Yes, that is rather cheap.

    If you have a pro contract at ~50000/year (which is at the lower end for a WT pro), this is just 'business expenses'.
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    Drummer Boy

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    those old ones at the top ruin everything. That's the problem.

    :D :D :D

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  • Drummer Boy

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    Btw, why is Susan Westermeyer reporting on this?

    I seem to remember that she was quite emphatic in her rejection of the sport after that last Froome fiasco, and how she wasn't going to cover cycling anymore after last season.


    Not to derail this thread, but I did find a few of her old tweets, although I thought she had announced a very definitive exit at some point. Maybe I misremembered?

    https://twitter.com/WestemeyerSusan/status/1000015349306281984

    https://twitter.com/WestemeyerSusan/status/1000386168427606016

    https://twitter.com/WestemeyerSusan/status/1000063193778024448
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  • « Last Edit: March 04, 2019, 12:01 by Drummer Boy »

    L'arri

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    I can think of a couple of others who may well be nervous right now. I just wonder how long Schmidt has been at it and how many clients he had because time and scale are the big risks in this kind of operation.

    Since doping is more criminalised nowadays, it's going to be harder to stay quiet and wait it out. The authorities could press Schmidt pretty hard.
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    I can think of a couple of others who may well be nervous right now. I just wonder how long Schmidt has been at it and how many clients he had because time and scale are the big risks in this kind of operation.

    Since doping is more criminalised nowadays, it's going to be harder to stay quiet and wait it out. The authorities could press Schmidt pretty hard.

    If you are thinking along the lines of following the exact same career path, so can I.

    I see that according to PCS he was terminated by Groupama FDJ, pretty much as soon as the news broke.
    Must be a pretty embarrassing for a french MPCC team, especially if there is anything to the suggestion that CCC must have had things figured out.
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  • "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.

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    I can think of a couple of others who may well be nervous right now. I just wonder how long Schmidt has been at it and how many clients he had because time and scale are the big risks in this kind of operation.

    "hundreds", was reported. Apparently there's a list already.

    https://www.welt.de/sport/article189694155/Doping-Mark-Schmidt-hat-mein-Vertrauen-missbraucht-auf-das-Perfideste.html

    And by the sound of it, we are talking about 10+ years here.

    Edit: "Early 2000's" is what is says here. Schmidt is only 40 though and started his studies in 1996/97, so that probably doesn't quite add up.

    Also the way blood doping is used seems to have changed a bit over the years:

    Tammjärv [one of the Estonians who were caught] also described how the already almost undetectable blood doping was further disguised: "Blood was given to me each morning before the race and the blood was taken again immediately after the race. So there would be no trace for the doping control officers, I was told."

    https://www.sportschau.de/doping/Doping-Razzia-Hintergruende-ENG-100.html

    (I couldn't find the original source. It sounds a bit odd tbh)
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  • M Gee

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    Btw, why is Susan Westermeyer reporting on this?

    I seem to remember that she was quite emphatic in her rejection of the sport after that last Froome fiasco, and how she wasn't going to cover cycling anymore after last season.


    Not to derail this thread, but I did find a few of her old tweets, although I thought she had announced a very definitive exit at some point. Maybe I misremembered?

     . . .
    As a former mod over there, you can take it from me that Susan has been threatening/promising to quit the sport, and CN, for years. I imagine FtP and Martin will say the same - and they were mods there before me. She never seems to follow through for more than a month, if that. 

    Well, it's not all bad - this news, I mean. Now we have some idea how old baldy may have won his Vuelta, and how Valverde is the eternal spring chicken. Just sayin'. Froome? IMO, no - Brailsford has them doing every dirty trick that is still legal - that'll be what they find on Froome - just IMO.
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  • . . .He had the bit between his teeth, and he loiked the taste, mate . . .

    just some guy

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    Let's get the discussion back to blood doping not so much aunt Susan
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    just some guy

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    Re: Operation Aderlass
    « Reply #19 on: March 04, 2019, 15:57 »
    Merged topics
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    Re: Operation Aderlass
    « Reply #20 on: March 04, 2019, 17:24 »
    The startlists for the opening weekend saw plenty of late changes and DNS's due to illness by the way. So many, that Het Nieuwsblad even had an article about it today, thematising the topic of infecting each other and so on.

    That makes sense of course, especially if it affects various riders from the same team. But given the recent developments, it could also be seen as a bad sign of what's to come maybe...

    Post Merge: March 04, 2019, 18:38
    I just checked again, and actually there were not as many late dropouts as I thought

    #quickstep Fabio Jacobsen (sick)
    #bahrain Matej Mohoric (training crash)
    #bora Andreas Schillinger (no information given)
    #fdj Arnaud Démare (sick)
    #sky Luke Rowe (sick)
    #sunweb Soren Kragh (sick)
    #sunweb Martijn Tusveld (sick)
    #trek Michael Gogl (sick)
    #academy Guy Sagiv (sick)

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  • « Last Edit: March 04, 2019, 20:29 by search »

    Joelsim

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    Re: Operation Aderlass
    « Reply #21 on: March 04, 2019, 21:12 »
    The startlists for the opening weekend saw plenty of late changes and DNS's due to illness by the way. So many, that Het Nieuwsblad even had an article about it today, thematising the topic of infecting each other and so on.

    That makes sense of course, especially if it affects various riders from the same team. But given the recent developments, it could also be seen as a bad sign of what's to come maybe...

    Post Merge: March 04, 2019, 18:38
    I just checked again, and actually there were not as many late dropouts as I thought

    #quickstep Fabio Jacobsen (sick)
    #bahrain Matej Mohoric (training crash)
    #bora Andreas Schillinger (no information given)
    #fdj Arnaud Démare (sick)
    #sky Luke Rowe (sick)
    #sunweb Soren Kragh (sick)
    #sunweb Martijn Tusveld (sick)
    #trek Michael Gogl (sick)
    #academy Guy Sagiv (sick)



    If Guy Sagiv is doing it then he’d better take a bit more blood next time!
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    Re: Operation Aderlass
    « Reply #22 on: March 04, 2019, 22:05 »
    The startlists for the opening weekend saw plenty of late changes and DNS's due to illness by the way. So many, that Het Nieuwsblad even had an article about it today, thematising the topic of infecting each other and so on.

    That makes sense of course, especially if it affects various riders from the same team. But given the recent developments, it could also be seen as a bad sign of what's to come maybe...

    Post Merge: March 04, 2019, 18:38
    I just checked again, and actually there were not as many late dropouts as I thought

    #quickstep Fabio Jacobsen (sick)
    #bahrain Matej Mohoric (training crash)
    #bora Andreas Schillinger (no information given)
    #fdj Arnaud Démare (sick)
    #sky Luke Rowe (sick)
    #sunweb Soren Kragh (sick)
    #sunweb Martijn Tusveld (sick)
    #trek Michael Gogl (sick)
    #academy Guy Sagiv (sick)


    Worried for Gogl :(
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    Re: Operation Aderlass
    « Reply #23 on: March 04, 2019, 22:18 »
    Worried for Gogl :(
    I was thinking so too, but he was sick in Provence already and abandoned Haut-Var for the same reason, so his non-selection didn't come out of the blue
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    Re: Operation Aderlass
    « Reply #24 on: March 04, 2019, 22:20 »
    I heard some talk concerning #didata - they started the races but really everyone should have stayed at home. Apparently there was a virus spread in Algarve that they have not recovered from. Not surprised if it is the same for many that were not racing this weekend. Physical exhaustion, traveling, athletes, springtime is perfect breeding ground for viruses. Normal people have better immune systems and don't expose themselves to so many different strains of viruses as these frequent flyers do.... it's the less marketed bonus!
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    Re: Operation Aderlass
    « Reply #25 on: March 05, 2019, 00:45 »
    There is an interesting observation about this - it requires a bit of privacy that might be hard to manage. It also requires one or more confederates in the deception. It should be interesting to see how the confessions address those issues. Anybody read the actual confession statements? I haven't time this year, unfortunately, so I'll hope one of you do.
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  • neppe

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    Re: Operation Aderlass
    « Reply #26 on: March 05, 2019, 09:05 »
    Another cross country skiier has confessed to blood doping with the assistance of Dr. Schmidt; Algo Kärp (EST).
    https://www.vg.no/sport/langrenn/i/KvOpJe/estisk-avis-ny-langrennsutoever-innroemmer-bloddoping?utm_source=vgfront&utm_content=row-3

    He says he started in the summer of 2016 and that it was the national team coach, Mati Alaver, who initated the doping and brought him in contact with Dr. Schmidt. No info that he has been contacted by the police or anti-doping authoreties before he confesses to doping in the interview with the Estonian newspaper Õhtulehe.
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    Re: Operation Aderlass
    « Reply #27 on: March 05, 2019, 10:19 »
    #academy Matthias Brändle is not amused, and comes forward with quite an unusual statement:

    Quote
    "I am shocked to hear the news of a doping confession from Stefan and Georg. I roomed with them a couple of times over the last year and never would I have imagined something like this. To be clear, never in my career have I been involved with doping. All my results and performances were done clean and without illegal substances.

    In order to reassure my fans and family of my dedication to clean cycling, I plan to sign a document stating that I commit to give all my earnings from cycling to charity should I ever fail a doping test.

    All the results of my Career, I did without doping. I also think that the government should consider harder punishments for dopers.

    For sure their career is over now but it seems as the punishments were not hard enough when they decided to take this step.

    To be clear, it was not only them. Forty more bloodbags will be hopefully identified with the DNA of any sportsman who was in contact with them."

    https://www.facebook.com/MatthiasBraendleOfficial/posts/2407266006171193
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    Re: Operation Aderlass
    « Reply #28 on: March 05, 2019, 12:07 »
    https://twitter.com/searchhhh/status/1102890123434303488

    the full issue of the newspaper is available (for free - just scroll through to the article and hit the green arrow) on pressreader.com.

    There's also a statement of Jörg Werner in there, manager of #katusha Marcel Kittel, #trek John Degenkolb and #jumbo Tony Martin. Personally he knows Schmidt, as his mother Heidrun Schmidt is his family physician (both are sharing a medical practice), but according to him, his clients are not patients of this doctor.
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  • Joelsim

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    Re: Operation Aderlass
    « Reply #29 on: March 05, 2019, 12:11 »
    Interesting, but I imagine there are a couple of bags with his DNA in a fridge somewhere.
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