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just some guy

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« Last Edit: July 18, 2019, 09:20 by just some guy »
Of course, if this turns out someday to be the industry standard integrated handlebar-computer-braking solution then I'll eat my kevlar-reinforced aerodynamic hat.

Larri Nov 12, 2014

Mellow Velo

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 Did we not have a thread done?
My bad, I could have copied some of my stuff from elsewhere.
Tbh, I lost track a bit.
 JSG: Could you tart up the thread title at some point?
I'll add some stuff and do stage 13 later...
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  • "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.

    Mellow Velo

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    Toulouse > Bagnères-de-Bigorre 18/07/2019 - Stage 12 - 209,5 km

    At 209.5 kilometres, the Tour de France serves its first high altitude stage on the 12th day of action. Following the start in Toulouse the riders head into the Pyrenees for a race with a downhill finish in Bagnères-de-Bigorre. The last time Bagnères-de-Bigorre was included as a stage finish on the Tour de France was in 2013. The race led over the Col de Portet-d’Aspet, Col de Menté, Col de Peyresourde, Col de Val Louron-Azet and La Hourquette d’Ancizan before ending with a descent of 30 kilometres. Daniel Martin bested Jakob Fuglsang in a two-up sprint, while the GC-contenders finished 29 seconds behind.
    The 12th stage of the 2019 Tour de France is not as tough as that race.




    The 2008 Tour de France also saw a stage from Toulouse to Bagnères-de-Bigorre. Featuring the Col de Peyresourde and the Col d’Aspin, the race ended with a descent to the finish. Riccardo Riccò soloed to the win. We all know what happened next!



    Favourites 12th stage 2019 Tour de France

    Aficionados of downhill finales are treated in the 12th stage. To win the race you have to be a good climber and dito descender. Arguably, the stage is likely to see the breakaway succeed. With no rider on board who is high ranked on GC, the route is tailor-made for the attackers to build an advantage that allows its members to decide the day’s honours between them. The best climbers will put each other to the test on La Hourquette d’Ancizan and, if necessary, in the downhill. The first part is steepest, so best suited to open up a gap, while the final kilometres are virtually flat.
    Today is such a lottery, there are no 4 or 5 star favourites.

    :*:*:* Vincenzo Nibali, Thomas De Gendt, Tim Wellens, Warren Barguil
    :*:* Julian Alaphilippe, Alejandro Valverde, Romain Bardet, Dylan Teuns
    :* Mikel Landa, Adam Yates, Egan Bernal, Geraint Thomas, Thibaut Pinot, Matej Mohorič

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    looks like a good stage for a breakaway indeed. I guess #wanty Wanty will do everything they can to get Xandro Meurisse (+3:42) up the road to take #yellow for a day or two
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  • "If this is cycling, I am a banana"

    Drummer Boy

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    Another stage, another winner. The list keeps growing.  :cool

    https://twitter.com/Cyclocosm/status/1151868428791140352
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  • Mellow Velo

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    Another stage, another winner. The list keeps growing.  :cool

    https://twitter.com/Cyclocosm/status/1151868428791140352

    He won that world title on the track in Minsk, at the same event where my niece won her two world titles and became the most successful athlete ever, at a single world championships.

    Not boasting mind. :P :lol


    I wonder who will win the gold medal and be the first to solve the Rohan Dennis mystery?
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  • Mellow Velo

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    French TV saying Dennis had an argument with his team car before he just had a strop, stopped and climbed off.
    Old school Dennis behaviour by the looks.

    Quote
    “It was his decision to stop at the feed zone. We try to speak with him. We stop with the car and try to find a solution—what is going on—he said I don’t want to talk and he abandon the race.”
    said Stangelj.

    Reading between the lines, I reckon they wanted him to keep pushing it and he wanted to save himself for a big show, tomorrow.
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    Here is more about it:

    https://www.tv2.no/sport/10731333/

    Hushovd talked to him on Wednesday, and apparently Dennis was very unhappy with the Fulcrum wheels, which (he said) cost him 40 watts.

    Stangelj didn't ask him to get bottles or something today, he was supposed himself for the ITT, but just abandoned halfway through.

    No idea what else Dennis expected from the team at his point of the race, but no matter what it is, if this is all true, it doesn't show him in a good light at all...
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  • t-72

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    I wonder who will win the gold medal and be the first to solve the Rohan Dennis mystery?

    A former teammate of his reports that the core of the conflict is the wheels used by Bahrain-Merida for the time-trial bikes, which are ... simply not up to speed, to put it that way. It is understood that Dennis wanted to race with a different set of wheels, but wasn't allowed to. The numbers provided are huge - approx 10% effect reduction by using the sponsor supplied wheels. That is computationally clearly not the equipment for an ITT stage win in the TdF.  However, there must be more, this situation has been more or less known for a long time. Merida bikes hasn't won any team trials to speak of, only a couple of prologue/almost prologue stages with Tratnik in the Romandie and Dennis in the Tour de Suisse this year[1]

    There must be something on top of this and possbibly a conflict within the team about support from domestiques in the Tdf can also be part of the picture? Nibali seems quite unable to do much (my guess: stage win in week 3 candidate) yet rides around with more than half the team catering for him on many of the stages.

    Tomorrow the Bahrain-Merida team still has decent chances, at least for the podium, if they give Jan Tratnik a decent set of wheels. He is one of the most undervalued riders in the WT at the moment.

    EDIT: search...do you speak *no? Youre a fast search engine at least  :S
    (he posted as I was writing :)
     1. (And which wheels did they use then?)
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  • Servais Knavendish

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    He won that world title on the track in Minsk, at the same event where my niece won her two world titles and became the most successful athlete ever, at a single world championships.

    Not boasting mind. :P :lol



    Fair comment - and now looking like a world champion baker - those cakes look fantastic...

    https://www.instagram.com/bakedbybecks/?hl=en

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  • Drummer Boy

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    Some updates on Rohan...

    Quote
    Rohan Dennis has issued a short statement via the Bahrain-Merida website:

    “I am very disappointed to leave the race at this point,” Dennis said. “Obviously the individual time trial tomorrow had been a big goal for me and the team, but given my current feeling it was the right decision to withdraw earlier today.

    “I wish my teammates the very best for the remainder of the race and would like to thank all the Tour de France fans who cheered for me, at home and on the roadside, since Brussels. I will hopefully be back competing in this great race again over the coming seasons.”

    Inside the bizarre Tour departure of Rohan Dennis
    by Caley Fretz
    CyclingTips.com

    July 19, 2019

    Quote
    We do know he has genuine problems with explosive, angry responses to relatively innocuous challenges. He’s a hothead. Former teammates, managers, team staff – it seems everyone has a Rohan story. Each rider or team staff member I contacted in the last few hours said some version of the same: Yes, it’s a problem. This isn’t the first time. It’s a pattern.

    “He needs help,” two former teammates told me, asking that I not use any specific stories they’d told. It’s a phrase that turns this story from one of bemused confusion — why would an elite athlete do that? — to one that feels quite sad.

    Quote
    We know that Dennis has had issues with his time trial bike all season. He said as much to Neal Rogers at the Tour of California.

    “He is a special guy, let’s say. All the champions are,” he said. “He’s really 100 percent when he wants something. It’s difficult to make everybody happy in every single moment.

    ------------------------

    According to Johan's inside sources, not only has Dennis been unhappy with the Merida TT bike (or perhaps the wheels, as has been suggested) but apparently there was some issue with his TT suit. Something special had been made for him to use tomorrow, and either it hadn't arrived yet, or it wasn't to his liking, or something along those lines. Maybe that was the final straw for him? It seems absurd from the outside, but not as absurd as climbing off in the middle of a stage, the day before an ITT.

    No comment from JV yet.  :-x
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  • « Last Edit: July 19, 2019, 03:48 by Drummer Boy »

    Mellow Velo

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     Mmmm, so those extra round wheels that got the French so hot under the collar a few years back, really do exist. :D
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    EDIT: search...do you speak *no? Youre a fast search engine at least  :S
    (he posted as I was writing :)

    nah, just saw it being mentioned elsewhere, and used google translator then
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  • Jimmythecuckoo

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    This is going to be one of the great mysteries of this Tour.

    So far have heard...

    * He didn't want to wait for Nibali and lose time.
    * His TT wheels were poor.
    * His TT bikes was poor.
    * His TT Skin suit was poot.
    * Bahrain wanted him to go in the break yesterday and he wouldn't.


    More to come no doubt.
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  • The fens are just West West Flanders really...

    Drummer Boy

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    This is going to be one of the great mysteries of this Tour.

    This may be as good an explanation as any:

    'What the hell am I doing?': Behind Rohan Dennis' tour walkout

    By Rupert Guinness
    July 19, 2019 — 3.36pm

    Quote
    Pau, France: The day before Australian Rohan Dennis made an astonishing, unexplained exit from the Tour de France, he appeared on top of the world, happy, excited for what awaited him on Friday.

    ------

    Fast forward to Thursday, midway into stage 12 from Toulouse to Bagneres de Bigorre in the Pyrenees. Suddenly, Dennis abandons the Tour.

    ------

    The issue is far from being resolved, from the aspect of Dennis’ well-being and what his "current feeling" is, and also how – or if – the situation could have been managed better by his team or agent. But Dennis himself may have given a clue in an extensive interview posted last month on the Stanley Street Social podcast.

    The hour-long chat, recorded in January, took an astonishing turn at the end when Dennis was asked what advice he would give to an aspiring cyclist.

    "To this day, there are times when I think 'what the hell am I doing?'," Dennis said. "In 2018 I reckon there were half a dozen times when I thought 'I could quit – right now’ and January last year was the big one ... I did not want to race my bike ever again. I was over this sport. But after a while you snap out of it and maybe it’s a bit of a depressed period, for a week or something, then you realise why you like it again.

    I have these little periods when things aren’t going well, across the board, sometimes it’s a bit tough. It’s the same with every job ... you’re bashing your head against the wall, 'what am I doing? what am I doing?’ Eventually that wall shows a crack and you’re 'that’s why I’m doing it’, but I still go through those periods."

    Credit to @Digger_forum for sharing this.


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  • AG

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    I am still tossing up between 2 yr old hissy fit or serious mental health issues.

    I am struggling with the idea that someone who has dedicated so much time and effort into training would walk away on the eve of the highest profile event ... a race he would be appearing in as hot favourite to win and in the rainbow colours of the world champion ...  It just seems so weird.

    That to me screams mental health issues. 

    BUT .. I suppose if he truly believed that he could not win on the equipment he was being forced to ride, and with the (lack of) support that he had ... then he might have felt that he wasnt really giving up anything by walking away - and in a fit of anger might have done it.   Temper tantrum that he regretted later, but cant back down from.

    I guess time will tell ... but I would strongly suggest his time in the professional peleton is done.
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  • AG

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    question - what bike did he ride for the world ITT ?
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  • Drummer Boy

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    I am struggling with the idea that someone who has dedicated so much time and effort into training would walk away on the eve of the highest profile event ... a race he would be appearing in as hot favourite to win and in the rainbow colours of the world champion ...  It just seems so weird.

    Unless he felt that he could win, but didn't want to, in the process, shine a promising light on a team and sponsor with whom he was so unhappy with? Because if he won a bike that he'd been complaining about, then he loses all leverage in his argument. Or maybe he was so convinced that he'd be hindered by the bike, that he didn't want the humiliation of losing due to circumstances beyond his control?

    I have a hard time buying into his "It's all about the bike" posturing. I've posted small galleries in the past where someone like Cancellara was crushing it in both the iTT and road races, using Trek one year, Specialized another, and Cervelo before that. All the most dominant riders have done so on a variety of machines. Not to mention, it's only the frame their bound to. All the components are optional, especially for someone with his stature.

    --------------------


    question - what bike did he ride for the world ITT ?

    I have a better question:

    Why couldn't he just ride whatever he wanted to today, and they could simply "re-brand" it as a Merida bike — as has happened dozens of time in the past when a rider didn't like the sponsored gear?
     

    I mean, if the choices comes down to:
    "Give me a bike I like, or else I walk away..." You'd think they could reach a compromise. But what do I know.  :S


    BMC btw  :P (At least that's what the logo said.  :shh)

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  • LukasCPH

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    question - what bike did he ride for the world ITT ?
    He was still a #bmc rider then, so he won #rainbow on a BMC bike.
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    Views presented are my own. RIP Keith & Sean

    t-72

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    Very good photo!

    The BMC timemachines are really good bikes. This year in early season we suddenly saw Edvald Boasson Hagen winning a time trial in an international race. That is a rare sight.  Except for his national champtionship subscription (now canceled by Norway's rising sun #unox Andreas Leknessund) and a few madatory participations in a couple of stage races and the world championship every year, the impression is that EBH doesn't practice much on the team trial bike. Enter a new bike sponsor that really cares about the discipline, probably a litte bit more practice time and suddenly there's a result.

    The Merida bikes seems to be at the other end of the spectrum and it makes Rohan Dennis' transfer to #bahrain Bahrain-Merida a strange move. Maybe Merida watned to improve the public image of their products and offered $$$ for the champion, but the other option?

    He could have been a Giant, with #ccc.  They make nice bikes, as for example the one Tom Dumoulin used when beating Dennis in the world championship here in Bergen (not just once, but twice!). That would have been a better choice for Dennis - so that leaves the option open: maybe #ccc was not interested in keeping him (but they lost Tratnik too the same way....??)


    Bergen 2017 Team Sunweb TTT victory at Vetrlidsalmenningen
    , on Flickr.
    Michael Matthews, Tom Dumoulin and Sam Oomen, 

     
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  • Carlo Algatrensig

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    I have a better question:

    Why couldn't he just ride whatever he wanted to today, and they could simply "re-brand" it as a Merida bike — as has happened dozens of time in the past when a rider didn't like the sponsored gear?
     

    I mean, if the choices comes down to:
    "Give me a bike I like, or else I walk away..." You'd think they could reach a compromise. But what do I know.  :S


    BMC btw  :P (At least that's what the logo said.  :shh)



    Has the rebranding of a frame happened much recently? When everything was still made of metal tubing you could get away with it. I think 4 of Indurains 5 wins were on bikes that weren't Pinarellos even though that's what they were badged up as. I wouldn't have thought you could get away with it anymore with the carbon fibre frames used these days. There is no way Dennis could get on a Giant Trinity and just stick some Merida badges on it and people wouldn't notice or point out it wasn't a Merida.

    Also are you suggesting that wasn't a BMC Timemachine he rode for last years worlds? It looks like it is one to me but always happy to be informed otherwise.
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  • AG

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    from what I understand, he wanted to re-brand someone elses bike and the team wouldnt let him.
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  • Drummer Boy

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    from what I understand, he wanted to re-brand someone elses bike and the team wouldnt let him.

    Contrary to my encouragement of that very idea upthread, I do realize that what's different from years past is that with the shaping and forming of carbon fiber, one brand can easily be distinguished from another, to the discerning eye, just by shape alone.

    That certainly wasn't the case in the days of steel and titanium. Still though, I think it could be done without causing too much of a stir. But when one of the main team sponsors is the bike manufacturer itself, the conflict of interest is painfully obvious.
     :D
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  • Drummer Boy

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    Has the rebranding of a frame happened much recently? When everything was still made of metal tubing you could get away with it. I think 4 of Indurains 5 wins were on bikes that weren't Pinarellos even though that's what they were badged up as. I wouldn't have thought you could get away with it anymore with the carbon fibre frames used these days. There is no way Dennis could get on a Giant Trinity and just stick some Merida badges on it and people wouldn't notice or point out it wasn't a Merida.

    Also are you suggesting that wasn't a BMC Timemachine he rode for last years worlds? It looks like it is one to me but always happy to be informed otherwise.

    I somehow missed your post when I was responding to AG.  But it seems we're in agreement.  :P

    As stated: frame shape, etc would certainly giveaway most efforts of camouflage. I just wonder how far someone might be willing to flaunt that. It's not like the old days of the 7-Eleven team that was sponsored by Huffy, but their bikes were made by Serotta—and no one seemed to mind.
     :D

    Huffy was just glad to have their name prominently displayed on the frame. It was just add placement for them. Nevermind that what they manufactured had nothing to do with what was being ridden in by the team.
     :shh


    As to my mention of BMC above: I assume that it genuinely was a BMC frame that Dennis was riding. Any implication otherwise was just me being mischievous.
     :angel
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  • « Last Edit: July 21, 2019, 12:26 by Drummer Boy »

    Carlo Algatrensig

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    from what I understand, he wanted to re-brand someone elses bike and the team wouldnt let him.

    Would have to change the team name to Bahrain - Sometimes Merida
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    from what I understand, he wanted to re-brand someone elses bike and the team wouldnt let him.

    It was actually my first thinking that this could be what it's all about. And as his results improved a lot again recently, I also checked some pictures...

    From Tirreno Adriatico (where he finished 8th only over 10k)



    to Tour de Suisse (where he won over 10k):



    I'd say both bikes are the same though. And it's certainly not a BMC bike:



    So if he really wanted to use a re-branded bike, it must have been a decision for the Tour specifically.
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    Drummer Boy

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    :S

    Quote
    'Take your buddhist crap somewhere else."
    :D

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  • AG

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    its an interesting article.

    I didnt know that about him quitting hte Tour of hte Basque country - but that is a bit ... well very ... odd.

    Here he is doing his dream job, getting paid big bucks for it, and quits mid-race because he has done the race days he was scheduled to do.  Nothing about commitments to team mates, to sponsors or - well commitment in general.

    And while he was unhappy about equipment, he signed for the team.  They have sponsors and when you sign up, you agree to ride the sponsors equipment.  The sponsors are what pays your salary.    If you dont want to ride that equipment, dont sign a million $ plus contract.  tay home, ride in your local group rides and ride whatever equipment you want.


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  • Jimmythecuckoo

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    I have an element of sympathy for the guy based on the quotes from that podcast.

    I have done this sports (albeit at a greatly reduced level than Rohan) for 26 years now and there have been days that I have utterly hated cycling.

    Even now when I think of doing something else with the limited amount of spare time I have it makes me feel odd that I am so addicted to the process and the pain that I cannot think of quitting.

    I am mid-40s now and I wonder if I will still be trying to compete in 20 years or more, even with the safety of the roads getting worse and less events being promoted.

    My kids ride track with our club but I would never encourage them to do road or tt's going forwards.

    There are still plenty of days when it is brilliant for my mental well being to get out and ride and they are the ones that amateurs can have but pros can't.
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