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Leadbelly

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2020 VR Collective CQ Team
« on: November 13, 2019, 16:21 »
Just in case you don't know what a CQ game is.

Quote
Basics

The game is based on the point system developed by the website www.cqranking.com. Based on this system you will have to select a team of between 25 and 33 riders whose combined value doesn’t exceed 7500 points.

Your aim then is to select a team of riders who will increase their 2019 score the most during the 2020 season. The winner of the game is the one who has selected the team with the highest combined value when the game ends.

The VR collective team will of course have 33 riders and our aim is more about having a bit of fun during the off-season rather than doing well in the league.

A few things needed to be sorted first

• Who is playing?

Post something in this thread and your name will get added to the list below. A Twitter advert on the VR account would be good to wake up the hibernators.

Leadbelly
Armchair Cyclist
Lukascph
Joelsim
just some guy
Flo
search
Carlo Algatrensig
ArchieBoy


• Will we keep the same format of selecting a team via rider categories?

• If so, are their any categories we should lose and are there any interesting ones which we could add. Bear in mind you don't want to leave the selector with too restrictive a field to choose from.

Here are last year's categories:

#1    GC Rider
#2    Young GC Rider
#3    Cobbles Rider
#4    Young Cobbles Rider
#5    Sprinter
#6    Young Sprinter
#7    ITT Specialist
#8    Young ITT Specialist
#9    The Climber
#10   The Random Eastern European   
#11   Who?
#12   Mr Breakaway
#13   The Continental Dominator
#14   The One Trick Pony
#15   The Colombian Climber
#16   The Drugs Cheat
#17   The CX-er
#18   The Trackie   
#19   The Domestique
#20   The Glue Factory One
#21   The African   
#22   The Sponsors Pick
#23   The Injured One
#24   The Pretty Boy
#25   The Scandi
#26   The Close But No Cigar
#27   Sleeping With The Enemy
#28   The Fall From Grace Rider WT -> Conti
#29   "Had One Good Season A Few Years Ago..Another One Soon"?
#30   The Next Big Thing™
#31   The Non-Traditional Cycling Nation One
#32   The Family Connection
#33   The Zero Point Rider

If you don't know what a category means you can either look back at the previous year's threads or ask here.

Talking about last year's thread, we had come to the conclusion that the Drugs Cheat category was just too restrictive, so that's one we'll likely get rid off.

Carlo had a good suggestion for a new category. Obviously it would need to be #33 and it would be "The Rest Of The Budget Rider".

Thinking hats on and get suggesting!
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  • « Last Edit: November 15, 2019, 19:16 by Leadbelly »

    Leadbelly

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    Re: 2020 VR Collective CQ Team
    « Reply #1 on: November 13, 2019, 16:23 »
    Oh yes, we'll have a cut-off date of Sunday 24th November and I'll try to get the categories and selectors sorted out on that day.
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  • Leadbelly

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    Re: 2020 VR Collective CQ Team
    « Reply #2 on: November 13, 2019, 17:02 »
    My thoughts.

    Categories I Wouldn't Miss

    Drugs Cheat - As noted above

    The two ITT-ers

    Sponsors Pick

    Family Connection - Bit restrictive

    One Trick Pony - I found it difficult last year to think of anyone that's not annoyingly bad

    Categories We Could Tweak

    If we need room for funner picks we could just get rid of the young variants in the first 8 categories.

    Colombian Climber ---------> South American Climber

    CX-er and Trackie could be combined ----------> Does Other Stuff On A Bike

    New Categories

    The Rest Of The Budget Rider - As noted above

    Straight Out Of Juniors - This seems to be a thing now (note they wouldn't have to be pro necessarily, just in their first year out of juniors). Bonus points for not going with the obvious selections.

    The Facial Fungus One - Are there enough riders with taches, beards, mono-brows or big sideburns to warrant a category?

    The Xmas Present - Pick a rider as a gift for another selector that you think they'll like. Not sure about this either. Maybe the gift comes with a receipt in case they don't like it!

    Surname beginning with [?] - I suggested this last year. It could be fun. The selector gets given a random letter though obviously some letters would be ignored
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  • Armchair Cyclist

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    Re: 2020 VR Collective CQ Team
    « Reply #3 on: November 13, 2019, 18:09 »
    I would drop the "Pretty Boy" category: I have no idea what most riders look like (which also weighs against Leadbelly's Facial Fungus proposal), and really wouldn't consider myself a judge of the appearance of men much younger and fitter than me.

    I'd also drop "Sleeping with the Enemy", because if I were given that category I would have no idea who is or is not permitted, and "Glue Factory", because the idea of CQ picks is to get riders who will improve rather than the decrepit (but my Thirtysomething suggestion might be about the same).


    Possibilities:

    Wrapped in the Flag (Must have won 2019 national title)

    Mr Loyalty  (Been on current team for at least 3 years)

    The Underacheiver (has not lived up to early hype so far)

    The Bottle Carrier  (has been largely a domestique with few leadership opportunities)

    The Thirty-something  (born in the 80's)
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  • Leadbelly

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    Re: 2020 VR Collective CQ Team
    « Reply #4 on: November 13, 2019, 19:38 »
    I would drop the "Pretty Boy" category: I have no idea what most riders look like (which also weighs against Leadbelly's Facial Fungus proposal), and really wouldn't consider myself a judge of the appearance of men much younger and fitter than me.

    I'd also drop "Sleeping with the Enemy", because if I were given that category I would have no idea who is or is not permitted, and "Glue Factory", because the idea of CQ picks is to get riders who will improve rather than the decrepit (but my Thirtysomething suggestion might be about the same).

    I like the "Sleeping with the Enemy" one. If you can't remember, it's a rider from a team you don't like. So Trudgin for example ended up having to pick Kenny Elissonde last year, maybe if T-72 enters this year he would have to pick someone from Arkea ho ho ho.

    The visual categories I guess you could do research on PCS for that. A lot of the other categories will have you looking up various sources anyway, but I guess we could stick with just one visual category if yours is the only feedback we get on it.

    Quote
    Possibilities:

    Wrapped in the Flag (Must have won 2019 national title)

    Mr Loyalty  (Been on current team for at least 3 years)

    The Underacheiver (has not lived up to early hype so far)

    The Bottle Carrier  (has been largely a domestique with few leadership opportunities)

    The Thirty-something  (born in the 80's)


    "Wrapped in the Flag" is a good one. Lots of options there, even more if we make it to include RR and TT.

    "The Bottle Carrier" covers much the same ground as "The Domestique" I think. Could just change the name of the category for a bit of variety.

    As you say there is quite a bit of overlap between "The 30-Something" and "Glue Factory". What about something in a similar vein like "The Oldest Guy in the Team"? It limits you to one rider per real team, but there are ~40 pro teams and you could even end with a 22 year old if you dropped down to a CT devo team. Does that sound like it has a bit more potential for profit?
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  • LukasCPH

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    Re: 2020 VR Collective CQ Team
    « Reply #5 on: November 13, 2019, 21:26 »
    I'm in!

    I like some of the suggestions for new categories:
    - Widening "Colombian climber" to South American climber is a good idea with Ecuadorians winning GTs and Costaricans getting WT contracts - make it "Latin American climber", even?
    - Does Other Stuff On A Bike combines the various non-road activities well.
    - Rest Of The Budget, great idea, we've often ended up with much of the budget unspent.
    - Straight Out Of Juniors - they'll all be at 0 points, so there's a guaranteed profit! Provided they score anything at all ...
    - Wrapped In The Flag, yes please! :cool
    - Mr Loyalty is a good category, a different approach that still leaves you with lots of options.

    The other suggestions are largely "can do, don't have to" in my eyes.
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    Joelsim

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    Re: 2020 VR Collective CQ Team
    « Reply #6 on: November 14, 2019, 14:20 »
    Yes please
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  • just some guy

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    Re: 2020 VR Collective CQ Team
    « Reply #7 on: November 14, 2019, 15:37 »
    Best put me in
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  • Of course, if this turns out someday to be the industry standard integrated handlebar-computer-braking solution then I'll eat my kevlar-reinforced aerodynamic hat.

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    Leadbelly

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    Re: 2020 VR Collective CQ Team
    « Reply #8 on: November 14, 2019, 17:17 »
    A Twitter advert on the VR account would be good to wake up the hibernators.

    *cough* *cough*
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  • LukasCPH

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    Flo

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    Re: 2020 VR Collective CQ Team
    « Reply #10 on: November 14, 2019, 18:41 »
    I am in as well obviously
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    Re: 2020 VR Collective CQ Team
    « Reply #11 on: November 14, 2019, 19:23 »
    for sure
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    Carlo Algatrensig

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    Re: 2020 VR Collective CQ Team
    « Reply #12 on: November 14, 2019, 20:39 »
    i'm in as a participant again,

    Of the new categories proposed the one that I like are

    Wrapped in the flag (for both RR and TT)
    Mr Loyalty
    The 30 something
    Straight out of juniors
    Rest of the budget

    In terms of current categories I would keep the CXer and Trackie as separate categories as I would think there are enough of both to allow a decent pick in each category.

    On the subject of the rest of the budget category that I suggested last year I don't think it should be an actual pick by one of us it should just be an automatic selection of the highest value rider that fits within the budget. If there is more than one rider on the same points though it should go to a vote of those taking part in the game.
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  • Leadbelly

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    Re: 2020 VR Collective CQ Team
    « Reply #13 on: November 15, 2019, 07:47 »
    On the subject of the rest of the budget category that I suggested last year I don't think it should be an actual pick by one of us it should just be an automatic selection of the highest value rider that fits within the budget. If there is more than one rider on the same points though it should go to a vote of those taking part in the game.

    An automatic selection = someone losing a pick, which I'm sure no-one is too keen on.

    The vote idea is nice though. Couldn't the selector pick 5+ names they like which are as close as possible to the required cost (the leeway would increase as the amount does) and then everyone votes?
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  • Carlo Algatrensig

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    Re: 2020 VR Collective CQ Team
    « Reply #14 on: November 15, 2019, 10:52 »
    An automatic selection = someone losing a pick, which I'm sure no-one is too keen on.

    The vote idea is nice though. Couldn't the selector pick 5+ names they like which are as close as possible to the required cost (the leeway would increase as the amount does) and then everyone votes?

    Fine tuning is needed obviously so perhaps the pick must use at least 90% of what is left so if at pick 33 there are 200 points in the pot the rider selected must cost between 180 and 200.
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  • search

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    Re: 2020 VR Collective CQ Team
    « Reply #15 on: November 15, 2019, 11:06 »
    An automatic selection = someone losing a pick, which I'm sure no-one is too keen on.
    well, unless we are exactly 11 (or 33 :P) participants, it shouldn't be a problem, I guess?!
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  • Archieboy

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    Re: 2020 VR Collective CQ Team
    « Reply #16 on: November 15, 2019, 11:21 »
    Put me in please. Must be time for my rubbish picks again.
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  • Flo

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    Re: 2020 VR Collective CQ Team
    « Reply #17 on: November 15, 2019, 15:13 »
    I am not keen on actual rules regarding the final rider, and less so an automatic selection, sometimes a rider worth only 50% of the leftover budget can be the " best" pick. But maybe it would be good idea to do a vote, so the one who gets that category should pick 2 or 3 riders. Could even from different "price categories"  e.g. with 100 points left pick one rider that is 97 points but not as exciting and one that is 56 but maybe more promising and let us decide.
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  • just some guy

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    Re: 2020 VR Collective CQ Team
    « Reply #18 on: November 15, 2019, 15:22 »
    Barbie is a must again right? This year I tell you :D
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  • Archieboy

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    Re: 2020 VR Collective CQ Team
    « Reply #19 on: November 15, 2019, 16:37 »
    Barbie is a must again right? This year I tell you :D

    Veto; I like this game, lol
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  • just some guy

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    Re: 2020 VR Collective CQ Team
    « Reply #20 on: November 15, 2019, 18:51 »
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  • Leadbelly

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    Re: 2020 VR Collective CQ Team
    « Reply #21 on: November 15, 2019, 19:15 »
    well, unless we are exactly 11 (or 33 :P) participants, it shouldn't be a problem, I guess?!

    Okay I'll make a note of that. search is happy to have one less pick if necessary. ;)
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  • just some guy

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    Re: 2020 VR Collective CQ Team
    « Reply #22 on: November 15, 2019, 20:29 »
    I am pretty useless so I can extra picks. I mean less
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  • Leadbelly

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    Re: 2020 VR Collective CQ Team
    « Reply #23 on: November 19, 2019, 14:11 »
    Still a few more days to get any suggestions you have in, or to put your name forward to be one of the selectors.

    At the moment the categories I would be adding are:

    Rest of the Budget
    Wrapped in the Flag
    Mr Loyalty
    Straight out of Juniors
    Surname beginning with [?]

    I'm still not convinced about the 30-something one. For me it's too broad a category (a third of the pro peloton would be eligible?). I know we do have some broad categories already, but to me they're the less fun ones. My variation was "The Oldest Guy in the Team", but I'm not too happy about that either. For one thing all teams aren't complete yet and it might be too restrictive on top of that. How about we just call it "The Old Guy" and leave it to the selector (and vetoers!) to decide what constitutes "old"?

    The disappearing categories:

    Drugs Cheat
    Sponsors Pick
    One Trick Pony
    Family Connection
    Young ITT Specialist (the remaining ITT pick can young,old or whatever)
    Glue Factory (if we can decide on a replacement)

    A couple of other categories would change very slightly:

    Colombian Climber ---------> Latin American Climber
    Domestique ---------> Bottle Carrier
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  • LukasCPH

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    Re: 2020 VR Collective CQ Team
    « Reply #24 on: November 19, 2019, 15:19 »
    So the full list of categories for 2020 would be:
    #1    The GC Rider
    #2    The Young GC Rider
    #3    The Cobbles Rider
    #4    The Young Cobbles Rider
    #5    The Sprinter
    #6    The Young Sprinter
    #7    The ITT Specialist
    #8    Wrapped in the Flag
    #9    The Climber
    #10   The Random Eastern European   
    #11   The Who? ;)
    #12   Mr Breakaway
    #13   The Continental Dominator
    #14   Mr Loyalty
    #15   The Latin American Climber
    #16   Straight Out of Juniors
    #17   The CX-er
    #18   The Trackie   
    #19   The Bottle Carrier
    #20   The Glue Factory - suggested to drop
    #21   The African   
    #22   Surname beginning with [?]
    #23   The Injured One
    #24   The Pretty Boy
    #25   The Scandi
    #26   The Close But No Cigar
    #27   Sleeping With The Enemy
    #28   The Fall From Grace Rider WT -> Conti
    #29   "Had One Good Season A Few Years Ago..Another One Soon"?
    #30   The Next Big Thing™
    #31   The Non-Traditional Cycling Nation One
    #32   The Zero Point Rider
    #33   The Rest of the Budget

    As you can see, we're down one category if we drop The Glue Factory. Going through the thread, we've had a.o. the following suggestions:
    - The Underachiever
    - The 30-Something

    Personally, I like the 30-Something as a replacement for the Glue Factory. Yes, it will be a category with a lot of eligible riders - but then it's down to the picker to choose a rider who isn't just >30, but actually has prospects of improving on their 2019 score.
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  • Leadbelly

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    Re: 2020 VR Collective CQ Team
    « Reply #25 on: November 19, 2019, 15:33 »
    As you can see, we're down one category if we drop The Glue Factory. Going through the thread, we've had a.o. the following suggestions:
    - The Underachiever
    - The 30-Something

    or "The Old Guy", and literally while typing this out I have just thought of a better titled version of the same category "Just Some Old Guy". Kinda catchy!
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  • just some guy

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    Re: 2020 VR Collective CQ Team
    « Reply #26 on: November 19, 2019, 15:59 »
    I like it :lol
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  • LukasCPH

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    Re: 2020 VR Collective CQ Team
    « Reply #27 on: November 20, 2019, 07:53 »
    or "The Old Guy", and literally while typing this out I have just thought of a better titled version of the same category "Just Some Old Guy". Kinda catchy!
    Deal! :lol
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  • Leadbelly

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    Re: 2020 VR Collective CQ Team
    « Reply #28 on: November 24, 2019, 09:39 »
    Oh yes, we'll have a cut-off date of Sunday 24th November and I'll try to get the categories and selectors sorted out on that day.

    Only nine entrants this year which is a shame, but it does mean more picks per selector. Six people will have four categories and the other three will just get three. Using a random number generator these are:

    Four Picks

    ArchieBoy
    Armchair Cyclist
    search
    Leadbelly
    Joelsim
    Lukascph

    Three Picks

    just some guy
    Flo
    Carlo Algatrensig

    Back in a bit!
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  • Leadbelly

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    Re: 2020 VR Collective CQ Team
    « Reply #29 on: November 24, 2019, 10:33 »
    Here's the full list of categories (again). I've added in some explanation where needed in case it's not very clear what is meant.

    #1    GC Rider
    #2    Young GC Rider
    #3    Cobbles Rider
    #4    Young Cobbles Rider
    #5    Sprinter
    #6    Young Sprinter
    #7    ITT Specialist
    #8    Wrapped in the Flag - National RR or ITT champ in 2019
    #9    The Climber
    #10   The Random Eastern European   
    #11   Who? - Somebody you've never heard of, or at the very least know only by name
    #12   Mr Breakaway
    #13   The Continental Dominator - CT rider in 2020
    #14   Mr Loyalty - Been on current team for 3 years (logically he should be continuing on same team in 2020)
    #15   The Latin American Climber
    #16   Straight Out of Juniors - Rider born in 2001 (this list might help your research). Doesn't have to have a pro-contract.
    #17   The CX-er
    #18   The Trackie   
    #19   The Bottle Carrier - somebody who's very much a domestique and gets few chances of his own
    #20   Just Some Old Guy - An "old" rider
    #21   The African   
    #22   Surname beginning with A - This letter was randomly picked. The first three or four pages here could be useful if you're struggling
    #23   The Injured One - Injured in 2019
    #24   The Pretty Boy
    #25   The Scandi
    #26   Close But No Cigar - Someone from this list ie. no wins in 2019, but lots of top-tens.
    #27   Sleeping With The Enemy - A rider on a team you "dislike"
    #28   The Fall From Grace Rider WT -> Conti - the fall doesn't have to happened this year and can involve intermediate steps
    #29   "Had One Good Season A Few Years Ago..Another One Soon"
    #30   The Next Big Thing™
    #31   The Non-Traditional Cycling Nation One
    #32   The Zero Point Rider
    #33   The Rest of the Budget Rider - Pick 5 riders you like as close to the amount as possible (some leeway allowed) and put it to the vote.

    One more post to go.
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