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Leadbelly

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Vuelta 2020 General Discussion
« on: December 16, 2019, 13:47 »
https://twitter.com/WielerFlits/status/1206542007335821314

MVDP may have expressed a desire to ride the Vuelta after the Olympics, but Guillen now says it's virtually impossible that it will happen.

Total have taken up the auto-wildcard for this GT and combining that with 19 WT teams means that there are only two normal wildcards for the race organizer to hand out.

One of three Spanish PCT outfits will miss out anyway. That's not an easy decision to make. None of three have a roster that overly stands out from the others, but they each have a selling point in their favour.

#fundacion - Return of the Carrots and the race does visit the Basque Country in 2020

#burgos - Madrazo's stage win this year

#cajarural - Longevity

Decision will be made after Pais Vasco.
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  • LukasCPH

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    Re: Vuelta 2020 General Discussion
    « Reply #1 on: December 16, 2019, 19:38 »
    MVDP may have expressed a desire to ride the Vuelta after the Olympics, but Guillen now says it's virtually impossible that it will happen.
    Or is he saying: Show me the :betting? :shh

    It's as good as known that Aqua Blue bought their Vuelta wildcard - and were subsequently surprised when they weren't invited back the next year without paying.
    If Corendon really, really wanted to, they could get into the 2020 Vuelta.
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    Leadbelly

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    Re: Vuelta 2020 General Discussion
    « Reply #2 on: December 16, 2019, 20:10 »
    They did?

    Maybe I'm just too innocent and naive, but I thought they just got lucky that year with how the PCT cards fell and there weren't too many suitors for the wildcards.

    If there were three wildcards you could see him saving one for Corendon, but I just can't see it with only two spots available.
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    Re: Vuelta 2020 General Discussion
    « Reply #3 on: December 17, 2019, 09:12 »
    With the prospect of MVDP riding - it might put a different slant on things?
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    Re: Vuelta 2020 General Discussion
    « Reply #4 on: December 17, 2019, 09:13 »
    Or is he saying: Show me the :betting? :shh

    It's as good as known that Aqua Blue bought their Vuelta wildcard - and were subsequently surprised when they weren't invited back the next year without paying.
    If Corendon really, really wanted to, they could get into the 2020 Vuelta.

    can I ask how you know this?

     :cool
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  • Mellow Velo

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    Re: Vuelta 2020 General Discussion
    « Reply #6 on: December 17, 2019, 20:32 »
     Not trying to paint too negative a picture but that final week looks like one long siesta. :(
    Seems generally to have fewer climbs than in recent editions and then there's the Netherlands.....
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    LukasCPH

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    Re: Vuelta 2020 General Discussion
    « Reply #7 on: December 18, 2019, 13:18 »
    They did?

    Maybe I'm just too innocent and naive, but I thought they just got lucky that year with how the PCT cards fell and there weren't too many suitors for the wildcards.
    can I ask how you know this?
    I don't know. But I can put two and two together and be reasonably confident that the result is four. ;)

    I have heard (and no, I can't reveal my sources) that races, including WorldTour races, will invite extra teams if those teams pay the whole costs the race would incur from their participation themselves (mainly accommodation, which for a three-week race can amount to a lot).

    In the case of the Vuelta, it wouldn't be an extra team, so the choice isn't as easy - but if the organiser is faced with the choice of one team paying all their costs themselves, and another team where the organiser had to pay that himself, financially it would be the right choice to invite the self-paying team.
    In reality, there are other things to consider, including where the teams come from.

    #cofidis has been invited to the Vuelta in all its ProConti years - coincidentally, Cofidis is also a sponsor of the race. When #ccc got a Giro wildcard in 2015 (but couldn't bring Rebellin or Schumacher), Sprandi was a sponsor of the race - I was there on the ground and saw the banners. And when what is now #bora got its first GT invite, to the 2012 as Team NetApp, NetApp was a race sponsor. #gazprom got a Giro invite in 2017, riding Colnago bikes - and it's well-known that Italian bike brands will do a lot to be represented in their home Grand Tour[1]. :shh

    Now, it's true that there weren't that many ProConti teams vying for a Vuelta wildcard in 2017 - mainly, there was only one Spanish ProConti team. But I think it is, to use Leadbelly's phrase, innocent and naive to believe that #aquablue & #manzana were chosen because Guillén objectively thought they were the best choices available, without any 'convincing' arguments put forth by the teams.

    If there were three wildcards you could see him saving one for Corendon, but I just can't see it with only two spots available.
    Race organisers will do (almost) anything if the price is right. ;)
    However, in this case, the more promising avenue for #corendon might be to 'convince' #total to relinquish their Vuelta auto-wildcard, thereby freeing up a third wildcard. Guillén picking only one of three Spanish ProConti Teams would be carnage, possibly sending Spanish cycling back to where it was a couple of years ago in the wake of the financial crisis, with a dearth of races and teams alike.


    There are arguments for not picking each of the three Spanish ProTeams, as well as Corendon:
    - Euskadi is in its first pro year, they haven't shown much yet (but they will get a chance until after the Itzulia)
    - Caja Rural are currently about to be banned for some time for two doping offences within 12 months (even though that happened years ago and only came out now)
    - Burgos-BH has been banned for that same thing in the past
    - Corendon is not part of MPCC, and ASO (which owns Unipublic) likes to pick MPCC members


    To conclude, it is more likely that Guillén will pick two Spanish teams for those last two spots.
    But I wouldn't be surprised if e.g. he threw #cajarural and #burgos under the bus and went for #euskadi (Basque stages) and #corendon (Dutch GT start + MvdP).
     1. though #uae were also riding Colnago, so maybe take this with a grain of salt
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    Re: Vuelta 2020 General Discussion
    « Reply #8 on: December 18, 2019, 14:29 »
    we can also add #arkea Arkea to the list of interested teams for 2020, by the way:

    https://www.wielerflits.be/nieuws/vuelta-2020-arkea-samsic-mengt-zich-in-strijd-om-wildcard/
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  • "If this is cycling, I am a banana"

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    Re: Vuelta 2020 General Discussion
    « Reply #9 on: December 20, 2019, 10:15 »
    I don't know. But I can put two and two together and be reasonably confident that the result is four. ;)

    Thanks for the detailed response, appreciate it - I really do have a lot to learn!!!!!  Love all the subtle nuances in the politics and the level of knowledge required regards teams constantly chaging. 

     :D
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  • Leadbelly

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    Re: Vuelta 2020 General Discussion
    « Reply #10 on: December 21, 2019, 08:03 »
    #jumbo

    https://www.wielerflits.nl/nieuws/dit-moet-je-weten-van-de-jumbo-visma-presentatie/

    Koen Bouwman
    Jos van Emden
    Robert Gesink
    Dylan Groenewegen
    Steven Kruijswijk
    Sepp Kuss
    Tony Martin
    Mike Teunissen
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  • Leadbelly

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    Re: Vuelta 2020 General Discussion
    « Reply #11 on: May 07, 2020, 20:06 »
    https://twitter.com/lavuelta/status/1257667171666329606

    The three Dutch stages have disappeared, but no obvious changes to the other 18 stages posted back in December.
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  • Leadbelly

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    Re: Vuelta 2020 General Discussion
    « Reply #12 on: May 08, 2020, 12:56 »
    https://twitter.com/lavuelta/status/1258720803798962176

    The race is starting in the Basque region, but it is Fundacion who miss out.

    I thought there could have been a small chance that with the rejigged calendar Total might have changed their minds about participating, but obviously not.
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