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Leadbelly

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Vuelta 2020 General Discussion
« on: December 16, 2019, 13:47 »
https://twitter.com/WielerFlits/status/1206542007335821314

MVDP may have expressed a desire to ride the Vuelta after the Olympics, but Guillen now says it's virtually impossible that it will happen.

Total have taken up the auto-wildcard for this GT and combining that with 19 WT teams means that there are only two normal wildcards for the race organizer to hand out.

One of three Spanish PCT outfits will miss out anyway. That's not an easy decision to make. None of three have a roster that overly stands out from the others, but they each have a selling point in their favour.

#fundacion - Return of the Carrots and the race does visit the Basque Country in 2020

#burgos - Madrazo's stage win this year

#cajarural - Longevity

Decision will be made after Pais Vasco.
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  • LukasCPH

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    Re: Vuelta 2020 General Discussion
    « Reply #1 on: December 16, 2019, 19:38 »
    MVDP may have expressed a desire to ride the Vuelta after the Olympics, but Guillen now says it's virtually impossible that it will happen.
    Or is he saying: Show me the :betting? :shh

    It's as good as known that Aqua Blue bought their Vuelta wildcard - and were subsequently surprised when they weren't invited back the next year without paying.
    If Corendon really, really wanted to, they could get into the 2020 Vuelta.
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    Leadbelly

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    Re: Vuelta 2020 General Discussion
    « Reply #2 on: December 16, 2019, 20:10 »
    They did?

    Maybe I'm just too innocent and naive, but I thought they just got lucky that year with how the PCT cards fell and there weren't too many suitors for the wildcards.

    If there were three wildcards you could see him saving one for Corendon, but I just can't see it with only two spots available.
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    Re: Vuelta 2020 General Discussion
    « Reply #3 on: December 17, 2019, 09:12 »
    With the prospect of MVDP riding - it might put a different slant on things?
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  • Aim low and miss.

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    Re: Vuelta 2020 General Discussion
    « Reply #4 on: December 17, 2019, 09:13 »
    Or is he saying: Show me the :betting? :shh

    It's as good as known that Aqua Blue bought their Vuelta wildcard - and were subsequently surprised when they weren't invited back the next year without paying.
    If Corendon really, really wanted to, they could get into the 2020 Vuelta.

    can I ask how you know this?

     :cool
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  • Mellow Velo

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    Re: Vuelta 2020 General Discussion
    « Reply #6 on: December 17, 2019, 20:32 »
     Not trying to paint too negative a picture but that final week looks like one long siesta. :(
    Seems generally to have fewer climbs than in recent editions and then there's the Netherlands.....
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    LukasCPH

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    Re: Vuelta 2020 General Discussion
    « Reply #7 on: December 18, 2019, 13:18 »
    They did?

    Maybe I'm just too innocent and naive, but I thought they just got lucky that year with how the PCT cards fell and there weren't too many suitors for the wildcards.
    can I ask how you know this?
    I don't know. But I can put two and two together and be reasonably confident that the result is four. ;)

    I have heard (and no, I can't reveal my sources) that races, including WorldTour races, will invite extra teams if those teams pay the whole costs the race would incur from their participation themselves (mainly accommodation, which for a three-week race can amount to a lot).

    In the case of the Vuelta, it wouldn't be an extra team, so the choice isn't as easy - but if the organiser is faced with the choice of one team paying all their costs themselves, and another team where the organiser had to pay that himself, financially it would be the right choice to invite the self-paying team.
    In reality, there are other things to consider, including where the teams come from.

    #cofidis has been invited to the Vuelta in all its ProConti years - coincidentally, Cofidis is also a sponsor of the race. When #ccc got a Giro wildcard in 2015 (but couldn't bring Rebellin or Schumacher), Sprandi was a sponsor of the race - I was there on the ground and saw the banners. And when what is now #bora got its first GT invite, to the 2012 as Team NetApp, NetApp was a race sponsor. #gazprom got a Giro invite in 2017, riding Colnago bikes - and it's well-known that Italian bike brands will do a lot to be represented in their home Grand Tour[1]. :shh

    Now, it's true that there weren't that many ProConti teams vying for a Vuelta wildcard in 2017 - mainly, there was only one Spanish ProConti team. But I think it is, to use Leadbelly's phrase, innocent and naive to believe that #aquablue & #manzana were chosen because Guillén objectively thought they were the best choices available, without any 'convincing' arguments put forth by the teams.

    If there were three wildcards you could see him saving one for Corendon, but I just can't see it with only two spots available.
    Race organisers will do (almost) anything if the price is right. ;)
    However, in this case, the more promising avenue for #corendon might be to 'convince' #total to relinquish their Vuelta auto-wildcard, thereby freeing up a third wildcard. Guillén picking only one of three Spanish ProConti Teams would be carnage, possibly sending Spanish cycling back to where it was a couple of years ago in the wake of the financial crisis, with a dearth of races and teams alike.


    There are arguments for not picking each of the three Spanish ProTeams, as well as Corendon:
    - Euskadi is in its first pro year, they haven't shown much yet (but they will get a chance until after the Itzulia)
    - Caja Rural are currently about to be banned for some time for two doping offences within 12 months (even though that happened years ago and only came out now)
    - Burgos-BH has been banned for that same thing in the past
    - Corendon is not part of MPCC, and ASO (which owns Unipublic) likes to pick MPCC members


    To conclude, it is more likely that Guillén will pick two Spanish teams for those last two spots.
    But I wouldn't be surprised if e.g. he threw #cajarural and #burgos under the bus and went for #euskadi (Basque stages) and #corendon (Dutch GT start + MvdP).
     1. though #uae were also riding Colnago, so maybe take this with a grain of salt
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    Re: Vuelta 2020 General Discussion
    « Reply #8 on: December 18, 2019, 14:29 »
    we can also add #arkea Arkea to the list of interested teams for 2020, by the way:

    https://www.wielerflits.be/nieuws/vuelta-2020-arkea-samsic-mengt-zich-in-strijd-om-wildcard/
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  • "If this is cycling, I am a banana"

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    Re: Vuelta 2020 General Discussion
    « Reply #9 on: December 20, 2019, 10:15 »
    I don't know. But I can put two and two together and be reasonably confident that the result is four. ;)

    Thanks for the detailed response, appreciate it - I really do have a lot to learn!!!!!  Love all the subtle nuances in the politics and the level of knowledge required regards teams constantly chaging. 

     :D
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  • Leadbelly

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    Re: Vuelta 2020 General Discussion
    « Reply #10 on: December 21, 2019, 08:03 »
    #jumbo

    https://www.wielerflits.nl/nieuws/dit-moet-je-weten-van-de-jumbo-visma-presentatie/

    Koen Bouwman
    Jos van Emden
    Robert Gesink
    Dylan Groenewegen
    Steven Kruijswijk
    Sepp Kuss
    Tony Martin
    Mike Teunissen
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  • Leadbelly

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    Re: Vuelta 2020 General Discussion
    « Reply #11 on: May 07, 2020, 20:06 »
    https://twitter.com/lavuelta/status/1257667171666329606

    The three Dutch stages have disappeared, but no obvious changes to the other 18 stages posted back in December.
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  • Leadbelly

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    Re: Vuelta 2020 General Discussion
    « Reply #12 on: May 08, 2020, 12:56 »
    https://twitter.com/lavuelta/status/1258720803798962176

    The race is starting in the Basque region, but it is Fundacion who miss out.

    I thought there could have been a small chance that with the rejigged calendar Total might have changed their minds about participating, but obviously not.
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  • Servais Knavendish

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    Re: Vuelta 2020 General Discussion
    « Reply #13 on: September 21, 2020, 19:52 »
    Getting seriously worried about the Vuelta.  Got to remain optimistic; but CV19 situation now far worse than start of TdF and sill weeks to go - from here it surely looks only possible rather than probable that the race can even start?
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  • t-72

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    Re: Vuelta 2020 General Discussion
    « Reply #14 on: October 04, 2020, 10:27 »
    Getting seriously worried about the Vuelta.

    Well one thing is the CV19, th other thing is the inverno. I have my doubts about the Giro, but then what are the chances of getting over any high mountain passes come the time for the Vuelta?

    The Tourmalet stage is wisely put in the first week, but still, due to high mountains all along the stage (and that includes descending) looks like a candidate for cancellation. They will have 3 passes over 1700 meters, and Tourmalet is supposed to be climbed until 2115 meters above sea level.

    Later in the race the supposedly final decisive mountain top finish to Alto de la Covatilla, 1965 meters above sea level (in the interior range Sierra Bejar, not the Pyrenees) will possibly be shortened, not cancelled, as most of the stage is at intermediate altitude. The final climb is up the north facing slopes of the mountain and the sun won’t help as much, in November.

    The mountains in the second week are closer to the coast where it is usually a few degrees milder, but less predictable and more stormy weather. Snow and frost may not be the main concern here, just general sh*tty mountain weather.

    So, why worry about the stage of theses climbs? A twitter account I follow for snow conditions and avalanches reports tells me they had 30-40 cm at 1700 meters yesterday. (In the Pirineos)

    https://twitter.com/navarrameteo/status/1312458535087742976



     
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  • Leadbelly

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    Re: Vuelta 2020 General Discussion
    « Reply #15 on: October 14, 2020, 18:24 »
    #burgos

    https://twitter.com/BurgosBH/status/1316290868249276416

    Ángel Madrazo
    Jesús Ezquerra
    Juan Felipe Osorio
    Willie Smit
    Jetse Bol
    Jorge Cubero
    Óscar Cabedo
    Alex Molenaar

    #deceuninck

    https://twitter.com/deceuninck_qst/status/1316311741719089152

    Sam Bennett
    Shane Archbold
    Michael Mørkøv
    Zdenek Stybar
    Mattia Cattaneo
    Andrea Bagioli
    Ian Garrison
    Jannik Steimle
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  • Leadbelly

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    Re: Vuelta 2020 General Discussion
    « Reply #16 on: October 15, 2020, 20:49 »
    #jumbo

    https://www.teamjumbovisma.com/race-preview/news/roglic-and-dumoulin-lead-team-jumbo-visma-in-vuelta-a-espana/

    Primoz Roglic
    Tom Dumoulin
    Lennard Hofstede
    Jonas Vingegaard
    George Bennett
    Paul Martens
    Robert Gesink
    Sepp Kuss

    Just two remain in the team from their earlier announced roster.

    #cofidis

    https://twitter.com/TeamCOFIDIS/status/1316714249499140096
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  • Leadbelly

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    Re: Vuelta 2020 General Discussion
    « Reply #17 on: October 15, 2020, 20:53 »
    #mitchelton

    https://www.greenedgecycling.com/news/chaves-and-mitchelton-scott-looking-to-maximise-opportunities-at-the-vuelta-a-espa-a

    Esteban Chaves
    Alexander Edmondson
    Tsgabu Grmay
    Mikel Nieve
    Dion Smith
    Nick Schultz
    Callum Scotson
    Robert Stannard

    #movistar



    Just one change from their Tour line-up.
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  • Leadbelly

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    Re: Vuelta 2020 General Discussion
    « Reply #18 on: October 15, 2020, 20:59 »
    #trek

    https://racing.trekbikes.com/stories/trek-segafredo-men/young-ambitious-trek-segafredo-team-for-the-vuelta-a-espana

    Niklas Eg
    Kenny Elissonde
    Koen de Kort
    Alexander Kamp
    Emīls Liepiņš
    Juan Pedro López
    Matteo Moschetti
    Michel Ries

    #uae

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  • t-72

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    Re: Vuelta 2020 General Discussion
    « Reply #19 on: October 15, 2020, 22:08 »
    So, it is another race for #jumbo Roglic to lose?

    Oh, wait is #ineos bringing someone that can offer some resistance?
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  • Leadbelly

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    Re: Vuelta 2020 General Discussion
    « Reply #20 on: October 16, 2020, 08:42 »
    So, it is another race for #jumbo Roglic to lose?

    I was gonna say that fatigue might start kicking in. He's only had a two week break. However most of his challengers have also done the Tour/Worlds combo. The only chink is that he continued on to race LBL while some others didn't, could that extra week be his downfall?

    Just checking the bookies and the only realistic challenger priced at under 100 who didn't ride the Tour is Vlasov and he hasn't exactly had ideal prep either. Of course there are people like Pinot who didn't "race" the full Tour and could be fresher, but you'd be a brave man to back him.
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  • Leadbelly

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    Leadbelly

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    Re: Vuelta 2020 General Discussion
    « Reply #22 on: October 16, 2020, 18:05 »
    #bora



    #cajarural

    https://teamcajarural-segurosrga.com/ocho-elegidos-para-el-gran-reto-de-la-temporada-de-caja-rural-seguros-rga/

    Jefferson Cepeda
    Jhojan García
    Julen Amézqueta
    Héctor Sáez
    Jon Aberasturi
    Jonathan Lastra
    Aritz Bagües
    Gonzalo Serrano

    The pressure is on ol' Caja and Burgos to perform as next year there'll be four Spanish PCT outfits fighting for the wildcards. Serrano is probably the best bet for a stage win.
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  • Leadbelly

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    Re: Vuelta 2020 General Discussion
    « Reply #23 on: October 16, 2020, 18:09 »
    #lotto



    #sunweb



    Sutterlin the eldest at 27.
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  • Leadbelly

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    Re: Vuelta 2020 General Discussion
    « Reply #24 on: October 16, 2020, 18:12 »
    #total

    https://teamtotaldirectenergie.com/la-selection-du-team-pour-la-vuelta/

    Niki Terpstra
    Julien Simon
    Romain Sicard
    Lorrenzo Manzin
    Valentin Ferron
    Jonathan Hivert
    Pim Ligthart
    Paul Ourselin

    #ineos

    https://twitter.com/INEOSGrenadiers/status/1317135545936601088
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  • t-72

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    Re: Vuelta 2020 General Discussion
    « Reply #25 on: October 16, 2020, 19:35 »
    If the conditions are this good in Austria, the start of the Alpine skiing World Cup tomorrow, on the Rettenbachferner glacier in Sölden (think Tour de Suisse in Austria and Thibaut Pinot) will be a good one!

    https://twitter.com/cynpirineos/status/1317048314207109121

    The Vuelta should distill itself to feature lowland muritos only, 14 days in a row.  :cool The Pirineos seem to get a lot of snow early this year. This is the time of La Niña.






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    Re: Vuelta 2020 General Discussion
    « Reply #26 on: October 19, 2020, 19:52 »
    Just checking the bookies and the only realistic challenger priced at under 100 who didn't ride the Tour is Vlasov and he hasn't exactly had ideal prep either. Of course there are people like Pinot who didn't "race" the full Tour and could be fresher, but you'd be a brave man to back him.

    just take anyone of the Sunweb youngsters :P

    Pinot doesn't sound too confident, by the way: “I’m not 100% recovered from the back issues I suffered from during the Tour de France. It’s getting better, though. I wanted to enter this race because I didn’t want to end my season with that bitter taste the Tour left in my mouth. I hope La Vuelta will put me back on track for a nice winter season. I want to amuse myself as I haven’t done on a cycling race for a long time.” So Gaudu is leading #groupama - although without much help to expect, by the look of it.

    Lot's of riders seem to be unsure about their shape though, specifically those which did the Tour + Ardennes classics, and didn't really have time to recover and/or build up form again. Some were more vocal about it (Martinez, for example), some less so (like Roglic).
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  • Leadbelly

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    Mellow Velo

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    Re: Vuelta 2020 General Discussion
    « Reply #28 on: October 22, 2020, 18:51 »
     What a shambles. The policing today was brilliant.
    There's a lesson to be learned about GTs being too keen to leave their borders. :(
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