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t-72

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There seems to have been a leak of information from the CADF, involving (at least) a report linking Astana riders Fuglsang and Lutsenko to Michele Ferrari. The case seems to have been researched by danish newspaper Politiken (makes sense), DR - danish state broadcaster and in the Norwegian newspaper VG (that's a bit odd in my opinon, even if they have good journalists I think I recognize from cycling forums, and certainly knows the sport).   

The rules are very clear - receiving advice from Ferrari --> ban.

The evidence is not so clear, from my very fast read (faster than a Ferrari on the Balcon d'Or) - statements from individuals that claim they have seen something. Enough for suspicion, while I believe it may not be sufficent for proof in the sports "courts". An investigation recommended, maybe even under way - and as such unfortunately leaked. It is not like we needed rumours to suspect doping in Astana, you only need to see who their boss are, and what their story is.

It is also worth noticing that if this collaboration indeed took place, it has landed Astana a string of good results, most notable Fuglsang's monument win in Liege-Bastogne-Liege last year, and perhaps his Dauphiné win the year before. It is still quite a way away from the world domination associated with Ferrari in the 2000's.
(There are a few that has argued that the effectiveness of doping sub detectable limits involves a sizeable percentage of placebo and faith in dark arts, and some others that will read this as "well then the others, the ones that beat Astana,  have to be doping more.")
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  • Joelsim

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    It wouldn’t surprise me in the slightest if those two were up to no good. Really, absolutely no surprise at all.
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  • Drummer Boy

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    This is the one I read:

    https://politiken.dk/sport/cykling/art7634811/Secret-report-connects-Jakob-Fuglsang-with-infamous-banned-doping-doctor

    Quote
    The 24 pages long report was commissioned by Cycling Anti-Doping Foundation (CADF), international cycling’s independent watchdog and written by a well-reputed external company. It is based on »intelligence« suggesting that the Danish sport star is linked to the banned physician Michele Ferrari.

    »CADF intelligence indicates that Astana Pro Team cyclist Jakob FUGLSANG is under Michele FERRARI’s doping program, and that teammate Alexey LUTSENKO was present during at least one meeting between the two in Nice/Monaco«, the report says.

    »Specifically, intelligence provided by CADF indicates that Michele FERRARI was present at the Vuelta a Catalunya with the Astana Pro Team in March 2019, has a base in Lugano, Switzerland, and has recently met with FUGLSANG and LUTSENKO in Nice and/or Monaco«, the report says.

    Links between Astana and Ferrari
    Quote
    The cycling community, as well, is flush with critical stories about Jakob Fuglsang. Independently from the report, Politiken, DR and VG have talked to 12 persons related to the sport and they affirm that Jakob Fuglsang allegedly was seen training with Michele Ferrari close to Monaco. For example, the Danish cyclist supposedly was seen »interval training behind a scooter« with the banned Italian doctor.

    Several of these refer namely to one specific top cyclist affirming having seen Fuglsang and Ferrari together, but despite repeated attempts, this person has not agreed to come forward.
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  • t-72

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    There isn't a stated source for these leaks, but it does raise concerns over the professional conduct related to the case. I find it disturbing that it seems to come from a Norwegian or norway-related source when acting leader of CADF is Norwegian.
    Why would a newspaper in Norway focus on a danish cyclist in off season?
    My idea - they were looking for something else and came across this, unplanned, and then decided to collaborate with Danish media.

    I was planning to write something for this forum on how cycling is loosing to cross country skiing on all fronts in this country, and here it comes, a bit out of context, but read it all, and you'll see at the end. As I said, I have noticed how cycling is loosing the grip here (Tour of Norway cancelled is just one symptome.) Cross country skiing gets more and more focus,  despite the climate changes clearly favoring cycling.
     
    This includes to which sport talent goes: Yesterday Lene Marie Fossesholm won bronze in the national championship in cross-country skiing, and rememeber, this country is to cross-country skiing what Belgium is to cycling. Fossesholm has another bronze in cross-country, in cycling - in the world championship (women's junior). However, it seems she is now on the path to future ski queen - but she could havebecome been the girl to put cycling on the frontpages if she wanted to.

    Sponsorwise and moneywise cycling is loosing support and the same sponsors appear on other arenas with large investments, while cycling teams and races are shutting down. For example, you might have seen the logo of #coop on cross country world cup races all across europe this year. The conti squad #coop is hanging on for one more season by the thinnest of threads AFAIK. Visma (a Norwegian company) may be a part exception here but it is really the Dutch side of Visma sponsoring the #jumbo Dutch cycling team. The Norwegian side of the company is name sponsor of the Visma Ski Classics series, in cross country skiing. Cycling doesn't make the cut in Norway. Even if they have a top Norwgian cyclist (Amund Grøndahl Jansen) on the team, he was never was a factor in Visma sponsoring the team.   
     
    In the media there has been more and more cross country skiing, and that is even if I disregard the skiing season and look only at the cycling season - their "dryland" pre-season training and rollerskiing show races has better coverage than any cycling race except Tour de France (summed up over all 3 weeks). 

    And guess what, last year, Cross country skiing even had the best doping scandals! :S

    Given the timing and country of origin of the news report I think this scandal is somehow a spinoff of doping in cross country skiing.

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  • « Last Edit: February 02, 2020, 22:04 by t-72 »

    Joelsim

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    The rider, who as yet refuses to come forward, could be Norwegian. Tipped off the press and then decided he didn’t want to be named. Or it could of course be something completely different.
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  • t-72

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    Clarification: tip isn't the same as  leak
    One thing is to tip authorities (CADF) about possible illegal conduct another thing is to provide a copy of a report supposed to be kept secret, to people that shouldn't get it.
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  • Drummer Boy

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    Drummer Boy

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    Aaaaaannnd...

    https://twitter.com/Vaughters/status/1224083806124224512

    Kinda infringes on the whole narrative, huh?  :shh
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  • Mellow Velo

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     Seems that currently, these 3 monkeys are all intent on playing the same one: speak no evil.
    #omertanostalgia
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  • "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.

    Drummer Boy

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    Seems like a pretty emphatic denial, and one that would easy to refute, I would think, if he's lying. He's not leaving himself any margin here, so this is curious.

    https://twitter.com/MikeKaltoft/status/1224399566818226176
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  • Mellow Velo

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     He's put it out in English on Instagram.

     Doesn't read as emphatic to me, but rather convoluted and therefore unclear.

    https://www.instagram.com/p/B8HaYJeFjb0/?igshid=1u80vag45iww4
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  • Joelsim

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    He's put it out in English on Instagram.

     Doesn't read as emphatic to me, but rather convoluted and therefore unclear.

    https://www.instagram.com/p/B8HaYJeFjb0/?igshid=1u80vag45iww4

    Annoying it’s on Instagram and we can’t say Birdsong tweets.
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  • Drummer Boy

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    Doesn't read as emphatic to me, but rather convoluted and therefore unclear.

    Yeah, when your best defense is reduced to, essentially, "I haven't been charged, I haven't seen a report," it doesn't exactly inspire confidence. But claiming that he hasn't met with Ferrari leaves him open to losing all credibility if anyone can prove otherwise.
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  • Armchair Cyclist

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    CADF statement on allegations against Jakob Fuglsang, Alexey Lutsenko and Dr Michele Ferrari
    Quote
    The CADF deeply regrets that the report was leaked, and an inquiry is being conducted to understand how the file was made public and prevent this from happening again.

    Finally, the CADF confirms that after careful review of the elements available, it has not submitted the report to the UCI for the initiation of disciplinary proceedings against the individuals or team in question.

    Amounts to: We got a tip off, investigated, and decided that it didn't need acting on.  We didn't leak it, don't know who did, and wish it hadn't happened.

    Case, apparently, closed.
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  • LukasCPH

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    Amounts to: We got a tip off, investigated, and decided that it didn't need acting on.  We didn't leak it, don't know who did, and wish it hadn't happened.

    Case, apparently, closed.
    A leak inquiry ... good luck with that. :P

    Quoting Yes, Prime Minister:
    Sir Humphrey - "We'll set up a leak inquiry right away."
    Jim Hacker - "I don't want a leak inquiry, I want to find out who did it!"
     :lol
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    Joelsim

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    Disappointing, clearly not enough hard evidence.
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  • AG

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    Disappointing, clearly not enough hard evidence.

    yep seems pretty clear - they got sme tip off's, but not enough evidence to charge anyone.

    I have to admit though, I find the timing of the leak interesting.  Closing the case instead of 'its an ongoing investigation'  (whereas I would assume target testing and closer watching might be involved) .... and right at the time when the UCI is taking its business away from CADF ....
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  • t-72

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    yep seems pretty clear - they got sme tip off's, but not enough evidence to charge anyone.

    I have to admit though, I find the timing of the leak interesting.  Closing the case instead of 'its an ongoing investigation'  (whereas I would assume target testing and closer watching might be involved) .... and right at the time when the UCI is taking its business away from CADF ....

    I think this case stinks two ways - both the supposed observations and the leak. It undermines thrust in the system (fragile enough as it is), and it doesn't really help us to know there are someone that have heard from someone they saw astana riders with Ferrari. There probably was good reasons for not going further with this as evidence at this point, until it was leaked.
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  • Jimmythecuckoo

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    It wouldn’t surprise me in the slightest if those two were up to no good. Really, absolutely no surprise at all.

    You and me both, despite a verdict that makes it look like it might go away.
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  • The fens are just West West Flanders really...

    Joelsim

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    Can't help feeling that something needs to be done about Fuglsang and Lutsenko. It's 99.9999999% sure that they're both doping. The authorities have to throw whatever is necessary behind the campaign to catch them out, and if that means testing them three times daily, hiring private investigators or whatever else then so be it.
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  • Drummer Boy

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    Can't help feeling that something needs to be done about Fuglsang and Lutsenko.

    So...at 00.0000001%, you're saying there's a chance, yeah?

     :lol
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