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Dr. Horrible the Mad Elephant Man

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Killing Whales
« on: July 23, 2012, 02:35 »
I almost constantly hear all this outrage against the killing of whales and how they should never be killed.

I have no problem with whales being killed for food, or dolphins either for that matter. As long as they are not made extinct and they are used for food go for it I say.
Any animal is there to be eaten, some may not be a very good idea to eat, but if they are safe to eat then why not eat them.
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    The Hitch

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    Re: Killing Whales
    « Reply #1 on: July 23, 2012, 03:37 »
    The problem is not the death it is the torture.
    I have long reserved  myself to the fact that we live in a brutal world, everyone must die eventually and animals live generally dull painful lives so killing them for food is part of the game.

    but to kill them in a long drawn out way is unacceptable.

    Also i never quite understood this emphasis on species being extinct or not. I remember always hearing about how dinosaurs lost because they became extinct.  When your dead your dead. Giving whales quick painless deaths rather than torturing them is a million times more important than keeping the species alive (seemingly to torture some individuals later)
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    Zam

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    Re: Killing Whales
    « Reply #2 on: October 09, 2012, 06:34 »
    I love eating baby shark. I am a meat eating hack.  :-[
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  • ram

    Re: Killing Whales
    « Reply #3 on: October 09, 2012, 06:52 »
    Seen a hammerhead shark baby sold in Mumbai. That's just a case of lucky fishermen though.
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    Re: Killing Whales
    « Reply #4 on: October 09, 2012, 07:33 »
    Zam :o wtf ???
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    ram

    Re: Killing Whales
    « Reply #5 on: October 09, 2012, 08:59 »
    The problem is not the death it is the torture.
    I have long reserved  myself to the fact that we live in a brutal world, everyone must die eventually and animals live generally dull painful lives so killing them for food is part of the game.

    but to kill them in a long drawn out way is unacceptable.

    Also i never quite understood this emphasis on species being extinct or not. I remember always hearing about how dinosaurs lost because they became extinct.  When your dead your dead. Giving whales quick painless deaths rather than torturing them is a million times more important than keeping the species alive (seemingly to torture some individuals later)
    Deleted the previous one ???

    That's daft really
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  • bicing

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    Re: Killing Whales
    « Reply #6 on: October 09, 2012, 09:47 »
    I almost constantly hear all this outrage against the killing of whales and how they should never be killed.

    I have no problem with whales being killed for food, or dolphins either for that matter. As long as they are not made extinct and they are used for food go for it I say.
    Any animal is there to be eaten, some may not be a very good idea to eat, but if they are safe to eat then why not eat them.
    Didn't see this thread until Zam brought it out.

    The big issue with whales is that there are rules in place to make sure they are not made extinct, but the International Whaling Commission whose original responsibility was to take care of that, has morhped into an industry peak body for whalers, so they are encouraging whaling in the fradulent name of science, and helping the industry increase whaling.

    There is also a broader issue of overfishing. If you know about the "tragedy of the commons", overfishing is a textbook example of this. Individual states have strong motivation to fish/whale as much as possible, but when everyone does that it goes too far and bam the population cannot reproduce enough and they all die. When you take that issue to whales, everything is slower and fewer, so control is even more important!

    As to Hitch's non-understanding on the emphasis on species being extinct or not. Simply speaking, if you take an animal out of the food chain it has ripple effects throughout. So it's dangerous to let that happen. There are also these things called ecosystem services, which are the services that nature provides which we literally cannot live without, yet we take 100% for granted. For example, the process of decomposition is pivotal becuase otherwise when things die we'd be stuck with them forever and have a monumental waste problem (even bigger than it currently is, damn plastic). Imagine leaves from Autumn that just continually build up year after year, never going away. Imagine dead animals and plants not going away. Everything would just build up! So if in this complex process of decomposition, a species goes extinct that is important to the decomposition process, human society has a really fecking annoying issue on its hands. You can take another example of an ecosystem service, such as air and water purification, and ponder the consequences of human LIFE.

    Of course, our global ecosystem is very clever, resilient and has back-up plans. It's the nature of the system. But our knowledge of ecosystem services and the millions of direct and indirect interrelationships in this complex system is pretty low. So it's dangerous to let things screw up. For exmaple, we don't know how to approach the ecosystem service of climate regulation, and now it's too late.

    A final thought is the genetics. Imagine if a killer disease had been created and the antidote was in the genes of a species that had recently gone extinct. Drug discovery for human health. You could also take this idea and expand it beyond health - to biomimicry (which is taking inspiration from nature to design/invent things for humans - e.g. Michael Phelps shark skin swim suit 2008 Beijing Olympics)
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    The Hitch

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    Re: Killing Whales
    « Reply #7 on: October 09, 2012, 12:15 »
    Deleted the previous one ???

    That's daft really

    I don't understand
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  • Drummer Boy

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    Re: Killing Whales
    « Reply #8 on: October 09, 2012, 14:17 »
    I don't understand

    Ram is referring to the fact that his original response was deleted (by the mods, I'm assuming).
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  • ram

    Re: Killing Whales
    « Reply #9 on: October 09, 2012, 14:18 »
    Even worse, it was deleted by me :fp PS- anything to add to the bracketed part?

    It's killing, nothing humane about it, not really a need to sugar coat it. Also, there's no humane way to kill a whale. I'm not against killing of domestic animals at all. Protected species on the other hand... And if it is allowed to kill whales for food. then the fishery colossuses would hardly stop considering how valuable extracts from whales have been in the past.

    I'm sure bicing will have done a far better job of explaining. Top of the food chain stuff's survival is essential, and it's eradication could cause waves. Especially when considering how unsuccessful whales' sperm are.
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  • « Last Edit: October 09, 2012, 15:04 by ram »

    sublimit

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    Re: Killing Whales
    « Reply #10 on: October 09, 2012, 14:31 »
    Hump Whale, Sperm Whale  - or any type of whale definitely deserve to live and not get eaten by Japanese or Norwegians for sure.
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