collapse


Poll

which route for Flanders

Old Route
8 (36.4%)
New Route
3 (13.6%)
do not know
11 (50%)

Total Members Voted: 22

just some guy

  • owner - AG2R, Katusha,OPQS and Movistar cycling teams
  • World Champion
  • *
  • Country: 00
  • Posts: 10406
  • Liked: 1049
  • Awards: Art of Brevity 2012Most helpful member 2012Best member of staff 2012
Flanders New Route or Old
« on: April 01, 2012, 15:44 »
What did you think +

bear in mind without Fabian race was different
Fignon - In my day, doping methods were derisory and the riders´exploits were massive.
For the last 15 years or so  it has been the other way rond: there is a huge number of ways in which riders can dope, and any exploits are derisory.

L'arriviste

  • Just the facts, Ma'am ...
  • Classics Winner
  • *
  • Country: be
  • Posts: 2830
  • Liked: 813
  • Owner of Dopeology.org and Timekeeper Homestay
    • Dopeology.org
  • Awards: Best Opening Post 2012
Re: Flanders New Route or Old
« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2012, 15:45 »
New was great. A real war of attrition. Big group survived until late due, I think, to nervousness.
RIP Craig1985 / Craig Walsh

D Dopeology.org A topology of doping in European professional road cycling 1980-present

BYOP

  • Road Captain
  • Country: us
  • Posts: 2139
  • Liked: 187
  • Gravity: you just hold me down so...quietly!
Re: Flanders New Route or Old
« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2012, 15:45 »
Whilst today's race was good, for me at the moment the old route was perfect.
Choke me smoke the air, In this citrus sucking sunshine, I don't care you're not all there.

just some guy

  • owner - AG2R, Katusha,OPQS and Movistar cycling teams
  • World Champion
  • *
  • Country: 00
  • Posts: 10406
  • Liked: 1049
  • Awards: Art of Brevity 2012Most helpful member 2012Best member of staff 2012
Re: Flanders New Route or Old
« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2012, 15:46 »
New was great. A real war of attrition. Big group survived until late due, I think, to nervousness.

Agreed I loved the new route

Dim

  • Classics Winner
  • *
  • Country: gb
  • Posts: 4687
  • Liked: 852
    • Velorooms
  • Awards: Best Post 2012
Re: Flanders New Route or Old
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2012, 15:49 »
I liked todays route, but its hard to tell after one running. Maybe today was a good race, maybe not. Ask me in a year or two.

I dont think the race particularly missed the muur

Tuart

  • Pobblebonk
  • Road Captain
  • Country: er
  • Posts: 1293
  • Liked: 95
Re: Flanders New Route or Old
« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2012, 15:51 »
The "Do Not Care" option

Dr. Horrible the Mad Elephant Man

  • Road Captain
  • Country: au
  • Posts: 1025
  • Liked: 63
Re: Flanders New Route or Old
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2012, 15:51 »
I think Canc would have forced a selection earlier but I am not sure the Paterburg is the right last climb, although very steep is very short.
Having raced it once now next year the teams/riders will have more idea of what can and cannot be done on the course and adjust their tactics. Hopefully Canc and Gilbert can play a bigger role next year. Sagan will be a year older and wiser, Vanmarcke and Degenkolb too, Geriant Thomas will be back as well.
BMC and Cadel Evans fan
I have chosen not to be able to receive private messages except from administrators.

Arb

  • Road Captain
  • Country: an
  • Posts: 1541
  • Liked: 226
Re: Flanders New Route or Old
« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2012, 16:00 »
Look at the last couple of years, bigger selections on the Kwaremont-Paterberg-Koppenberg treble than this year. Much of the race was simply raced differently, one because a new route brings conservatism by default, and then Cancellara went down.

Honestly don't think it matters, this route is a bit harder, but it's still up to the riders to determine at what km the business starts.

Arb

  • Road Captain
  • Country: an
  • Posts: 1541
  • Liked: 226
Re: Flanders New Route or Old
« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2012, 16:28 »
And another thing - can't see Phil ever winning this route.

ram

  • Monument Winner
  • Country: 00
  • Posts: 7356
  • Liked: 607
  • Awards: Best Opening Post 2012Member you would most like to meet in real life 2012
Re: Flanders New Route or Old
« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2012, 16:46 »
Why? Not hard enough?

pedaling squares

  • Neo Pro
  • *
  • Country: ca
  • Posts: 278
  • Liked: 46
Re: Flanders New Route or Old
« Reply #10 on: April 01, 2012, 17:01 »
Too early to say, I think the race changed completely when Fabian went out. Add Cancellara and an in-form Gilbert, and the new route might have been more spectacular.
I never called you fat.

Francois the Postman

  • Hot Prospect
  • *
  • Country: scotland
  • Posts: 413
  • Liked: 151
Re: Flanders New Route or Old
« Reply #11 on: April 01, 2012, 17:38 »
New route, but I'd like to see a tweak or two. Although I am not sure how you are gonna push the Oude Kwaremont and Paterberg 7k closer to Oudenaarde.

Having 15 riders up front has made the opening a bit atypical, I suspect, with a lot of riders being already pretty tired by the time they got to the hills proper. Maybe there are just a couple too many hills to tease people out earlier.

"Events" are going to dictate much of what happens in a Ronde anyway, but with another strong rider in or near the front, I doubt if we would have seen the cat and mouse over the last 4k that we had this time. Those last 2 climbs will split the wheat from the chaff. And today that would have been Tommeke dropped by Cancellara, I suspect. But we'll never know.

But there was plenty of racing taking place today, and the race story shifted a couple of times, positions/teams/tactics wise. We only saw glimpses of groups being devastated on the cobbled climbs, maybe that is what we could do more with, but there was plenty of interesting activity, by my count anyway.

The best Flanders are the head to head grudge rides, and we were all geared up for a fantastic one, with two names on form. But a bidon at 62k decapitated most of this year's attraction. Took me a bit to get over that downer, and by that time we were several hills down the road. Maybe that is why some of this year's route was less captivating for some too?

At no point did I really miss De Muur though. Would be nice if that was in it too, but I much prefer the more intense concentration of climbs that we saw today.

So if Fate rolled some sh*tty dice today, bring on the days when Flanders is still able to throw sixes when we approach those last 2 climbs.

mew

  • Road Captain
  • Country: us
  • Posts: 1139
  • Liked: 105
  • race in peace craig
Re: Flanders New Route or Old
« Reply #12 on: April 01, 2012, 17:41 »
Too premature to tell...good races made by good riders sometimes.

Sad for the bad luck of Fabian...seems like his year for stuff.  It was a good race and happy for Tommeke kinda wishing Pippo would have pipped him but he still looked happy about his race---as he should!

BYOP

  • Road Captain
  • Country: us
  • Posts: 2139
  • Liked: 187
  • Gravity: you just hold me down so...quietly!
Re: Flanders New Route or Old
« Reply #13 on: April 01, 2012, 18:08 »
But lets not forget Fabian isn't going to be around forever.

ram

  • Monument Winner
  • Country: 00
  • Posts: 7356
  • Liked: 607
  • Awards: Best Opening Post 2012Member you would most like to meet in real life 2012
Re: Flanders New Route or Old
« Reply #14 on: April 01, 2012, 18:12 »
He isn't going to be around for some time now.

Capt_Cavman

  • Domestique
  • *
  • Country: jp
  • Posts: 719
  • Liked: 120
Re: Flanders New Route or Old
« Reply #15 on: April 01, 2012, 20:01 »
Old route for me.

Different challenges make for better viewing. And probably more interesting racing too, if you like the tactical side of things.

ZamanAbbaticchio

  • everything and nothing.
  • Road Captain
  • Country: re
  • Posts: 2243
  • Liked: 173
Re: Flanders New Route or Old
« Reply #16 on: April 01, 2012, 20:20 »
Fabian crash makes it difficult to judge.

Slow Rider

  • Road Captain
  • *
  • Country: nl
  • Posts: 1006
  • Liked: 385
Re: Flanders New Route or Old
« Reply #17 on: April 01, 2012, 23:21 »
I like the route, but it's far from perfect. Found Paterberg to be an extremely disappointing final climb for some reason. It would be better if they were closer to the finish too, at 10k or something. But as Francois said, don't see how they could move those two closer to town. Isn't there any alternative closer by though, just to give the rider one last hill closer to the finish?

But overall, I quite like it. Kwaremont is a great hill, really enjoyed it. I think in a few years we will barely remember the Muur.

Francois the Postman

  • Hot Prospect
  • *
  • Country: scotland
  • Posts: 413
  • Liked: 151
Re: Flanders New Route or Old
« Reply #18 on: April 02, 2012, 01:21 »
Found Paterberg to be an extremely disappointing final climb for some reason.
Me too, but I do like the closeness of the Kwaremont and Paterberg. Neither one, on its own, would do what I hope they do, at that point in the race, deliver the right winner. The two climbs together, just too close for comfort, could do that perfectly. It would be a great combo to throw at a small group of tired riders near the final, almost guaranteeing a win for the best legs on the last climb of the day, but only of the finish line came a lot closer. That's the only real 'problem' I have with this new route, I think.

Boonen was pretty spent when he got to the top of the Patersberg, but had just enough time (and headwind) to get enough of his breath back in the long stretch to Oudenaarde. this way it remains a sprinter's finish, of sorts. I really felt it was Pozzato's day when Boonen looked in a spot of bother, but the closer they got to Oudenaarde, the more that feeling evaporated.

Maybe a weird thing to say when someone just put RvV on their palmares, but to me, Boonen looks like he is having a harder time to draw out his superb Spring form than he'd liked to. With Cancellara left in the race, who appeared to have timed his form superbly, I think we would now be talking about how Boonen had peaked too early this year, given the importance of this and the next weekend.

Now, with Cancellara out of the race and that other record next week tantalisingly close too, he might be on a high that is just euphoric enough, to persuade his legs to deliver one final hellish heave-ho this Spring. As long as he doesn't get torpedoed by a similar cobble like the one that had him in its vizor last year. I'll probably eat my words, but this year, for PR, I feel Boonen has no longer got a comeback effort and a win in his legs. One of the two, probably. Both, I doubt it.

Between Boonen and Cancellara, this weekend, I thought it would be on a knife's edge. Next week would have been Cancellara's to lose.  But we'll never know, and how I see it is certainly is not meant to diminish a 3rd win in Vlaanderen's Mooiste, something that is impressive by definition.

DinZ

  • 2.2 is where it is at
  • Classics Winner
  • *
  • Country: zm
  • Posts: 3286
  • Liked: 225
Re: Flanders New Route or Old
« Reply #19 on: April 02, 2012, 01:57 »
i guess look beyond the first three as well

That was a pretty big group that came in behind them. Some very tired looking riders in the second group but when you see 40 odd riders coming in at 30 seconds got to think it was not decisive enough at the end.


Arb

  • Road Captain
  • Country: an
  • Posts: 1541
  • Liked: 226
Re: Flanders New Route or Old
« Reply #20 on: April 02, 2012, 04:04 »
Why? Not hard enough?

He can't pull off that solo for 13km, and unless his sprint winds back the clock he will always be going to the line with someone faster than him.

I love Kwaremont and Paterberg as climbs, so am happy they are at the "business end", and there is nothing wrong with finishing in Oudenaarde. I think you could make a good route without using the loops though.

Francois the Postman

  • Hot Prospect
  • *
  • Country: scotland
  • Posts: 413
  • Liked: 151
Re: Flanders New Route or Old
« Reply #21 on: April 02, 2012, 04:16 »
i guess look beyond the first three as well

That was a pretty big group that came in behind them. Some very tired looking riders in the second group but when you see 40 odd riders coming in at 30 seconds got to think it was not decisive enough at the end.

Aye, true, it was a fairly large bunch by some standards.

But those 40 were still utterly unable to bridge the relatively small gap to what was, in effect, not even the strongest trio in the race. And those 30 seconds were only 30 seconds because the 40 were trailing quite a bit more before the trackstanding up front started. If the whole podium hadn't been claimed already, I also doubt if the 40 would have arrived as 40, for instance. With Cancellera still in it, it could well have been a much more drawn out and splintered arrival, even for the podium places.

ram

  • Monument Winner
  • Country: 00
  • Posts: 7356
  • Liked: 607
  • Awards: Best Opening Post 2012Member you would most like to meet in real life 2012
Re: Flanders New Route or Old
« Reply #22 on: April 02, 2012, 04:48 »
He can't pull off that solo for 13km, and unless his sprint winds back the clock he will always be going to the line with someone faster than him.

I love Kwaremont and Paterberg as climbs, so am happy they are at the "business end", and there is nothing wrong with finishing in Oudenaarde. I think you could make a good route without using the loops though.
Ah, cheers Arbs

ansimi

  • Domestic Rider
  • Posts: 180
  • Liked: 15
Re: Flanders New Route or Old
« Reply #23 on: April 02, 2012, 04:57 »
It might be more a problem with the camera work than the route but I found today lacking in atmosphere? The Ronde is so special because of what it means in the area and all the people coming out to be a part of it. The weather was great and so was Boonen so I should have been seeing swarms of cheering fans but I didn't get to see them much. I think that's probably something that the race organizers and the TV director can work out without changing the route but I definitely noticed.

I have no doubt that this route will be raced more aggressively next time. I think it wasn't as hard as some teams were afraid and they were overly cautious early in the race.

AG

  • Classics Winner
  • *
  • Country: au
  • Posts: 2547
  • Liked: 398
  • RIP Craig
Re: Flanders New Route or Old
« Reply #24 on: April 02, 2012, 05:45 »
I really liked it.

The last climbs are hard enough to make a proper selection, and the group behind (who werent that far behind by the end of the Paterberg) couldnt catch them due to the difficulty of the overall race.

It did kind of end in a fizzle, but only due to the circumstances of the race, not the course.

As for the loops - any chance to give the fans the oppurtunity to see more of the race, and attract and keep those fans is a good thing.   Was there massive problems with crowd behaviour?  That would be the only downside of this kind of course.

bicing

  • I'm a bot.
  • Domestique
  • Country: ht
  • Posts: 679
  • Liked: 156
  • Radioshack Nissan Trek owner
  • Awards: Funniest member 2012Best post 2012Best thread 2012
Re: Flanders New Route or Old
« Reply #25 on: April 02, 2012, 08:17 »
What if they switched around the Kwaremont and Patterberg?
Cycman: Sagan Greipel Brajkovic Breschel CA.Sorensen Porte Wegmann Sutton Zubeldia Fedrigo Lastras Roux Selig Morabito Dumoulin T.Meyer
CQ game-breakers: Boom Ciolek DeGendt Steegmans Bertagnolli Blythe Masciarelli Stetina Boeckmans Vaugrenard

Arb

  • Road Captain
  • Country: an
  • Posts: 1541
  • Liked: 226
Re: Flanders New Route or Old
« Reply #26 on: April 02, 2012, 08:49 »
What if they switched around the Kwaremont and Patterberg?

Would be the same distance to the finish, not sure it would change anything?

L'arriviste

  • Just the facts, Ma'am ...
  • Classics Winner
  • *
  • Country: be
  • Posts: 2830
  • Liked: 813
  • Owner of Dopeology.org and Timekeeper Homestay
    • Dopeology.org
  • Awards: Best Opening Post 2012
Re: Flanders New Route or Old
« Reply #27 on: April 02, 2012, 09:24 »
Boonen's interview quote sums up why a big group stayed together so long. He wondered aloud whether riders might go harder on this course next year.

I think this was a conscious attempt by an increasingly 'businessy' race organiser to make the Ronde more commercial by passing the same spot on several occasions (as well as for the same reason the switch to a finish at Oudenaarde). One can see the same sort of thrust in the Omloop Het Nieuwsblad with the triple Haaghoek loop before the Molenberg. It's much less pretty, I think, and an example of planning done not for pure sporting reasons which some will always find distasteful.

I do wonder how things would have turned out if Canc had stayed upright and, perhaps more broadly, without Vansummeren's fall which allowed Boonen et al to ride comfortably away. However this course was still worthy and this is the Ronde van Vlaanderen rather than the Ronde van de Muur en de Bosberg.

Cobblestones

  • Domestic Rider
  • Country: 00
  • Posts: 61
  • Liked: 4
Re: Flanders New Route or Old
« Reply #28 on: April 03, 2012, 00:34 »
I didn't think the race was that exciting until the sprint. So the new route didn't do it for me, but of course one shouldn't judge the new route from one race. The long flat stretch in the end with the headwind makes it hard to solo. Let's see how it works out in future editions.
Those who do not move, do not notice their chains.

Havetts

  • Road Captain
  • *
  • Country: nl
  • Posts: 1598
  • Liked: 148
Re: Flanders New Route or Old
« Reply #29 on: April 04, 2012, 14:47 »
Cant make up my mind yet, the course needs another year/few years to determine which of both is best.

 

Featured Topics

Recent Posts

Recent Topics



Top
Back to top