Posted by: Il Grillo« on: April 17, 2012, 01:16 »Great analysis. ;D The relationship between Rabo and its fans seems a lot like some national football teams and their fans. Wallowing in failure seems to be part of the fandom. For me though, my big criticisms of Rabo (which are still fairly mild) are as follows: 4. Weird tactics Posted by: DinZ« on: April 16, 2012, 23:39 »I will try to remember to re-read the section to get more detail but i know Robbie McEwan was very critical of their tactics from his time there.
Yes i know Robbie is a sprinter, and a particularly arrogant one at that who thinks he should be the focus of every stage but he had valid examples of where he thought they were lacking clear direction in trying to get wins. Posted by: L'arriviste« on: April 16, 2012, 13:26 »No they did fail, for sure. They are damned if they dont talk up the race and damned if they do if they dont win. I mean Rabo's casue is not helped with stupid comments by the likes of Merckx calling Gesink a future TdF winner. Talk about placing extra weight of expectation on a rider Great analysis. ;D The relationship between Rabo and its fans seems a lot like some national football teams and their fans. Wallowing in failure seems to be part of the fandom. For me though, my big criticisms of Rabo (which are still fairly mild) are as follows: 1. Not hungry Lulu Sanchez - notwithstanding his execrable performance last year - is a winner. Not a big winner but he will pick them up because he is canny. But I get the feeling that he gets left alone to do his thing. Meanwhile Rabo management appears to struggle to turn young lads into hungry winners. Guys who really should be winning - Renshaw, Matthews, Tjallingi (if he had more chances). Meanwhile Boom is having the longest breakthrough period ever. Breschel, Kruiswijk and Mollema for me all look set for a career of comfortable placings despite occasional flashes of excellence. On the flipside of this coin, Freire and Nuyens left and started winning again. Time will tell on Langeveld and Weening. 2. Nipped in the bud Look at that list of deluxe nearly men: Flens, Martens, Leezer, Ten Dam, Bos. They all had bright futures which we're still waiting to see realised. Not saying they won't be great, but perhaps not while they stay at Rabo. 3. Injury prone Nobody's fault, really. Could easily put it down to bad luck. Barredo hasn't done much since he arrived but now he's injured. Gesink was getting good for a while there before the big injuries but he is for the moment a shadow of that. That said, I still like Rabo. ![]() Posted by: benotti69« on: April 16, 2012, 12:52 »Mostly agree with your post, but don't forget that it's Rabo themselves that place so much emphasis on this race. They want to win and be highly visible, which only makes sense since this is their home-race and the second most-watched race of the year in the Netherlands (after the Tour). If one of their biggest goals in the season is to shine here and they are completely invisible, I think that would classify as failing right? No they did fail, for sure. They are damned if they dont talk up the race and damned if they do if they dont win. I mean Rabo's casue is not helped with stupid comments by the likes of Merckx calling Gesink a future TdF winner. Talk about placing extra weight of expectation on a rider ![]()
No i agree. They were stupid not have a rider in the break. And then they were stupid not to have at least 1 rider go off the front in the final kms. And of course Rabo's fail is exaggerated, but that's only logical because there's so much attention paid to them on this forum. Every result is highlighted by the Dutch posters, as is every lack of results by others. Same with BMC for instance, or Sky. I like to dissect performances as much as others, but some posters can get very immature about it. I dont care much for immature fans of certain teams or riders, but to retaliate with similar bores me. I also like to see those who declare themselves heroes, fail, as it will the fans who decide that based on their performances. I like it that riders like A Schleck gets torn to shreds for not achieving and for treating the sport as something that owes him. His treatment of the sport and those in it has been downright disrepectful and he deserves everything that comes his way in the form of criticism and slagging. Rabo not so much, but yeah their fans and followers do consider the Rabo in a league that they currently are not and hence leave themselves open to being taken down a peg or 2. I think BMC are starting to build a following similar to Rabo, where they think their team is super strong and is going to dominate because of the names and bleating about it before hand will mean a pasting if they dont deliver. Sky deservedly got that treatment for the bold sweeping statements and flashing the money, jaguar cars, declaring their team bus state of the art better than everyone else. Well putting oneself on a pedestal can only lead to one's downfall amidst the howls of laughter if they don't deliver and rightly so. Posted by: Slow Rider« on: April 16, 2012, 12:35 »If we accept that they didn't win, understand the reasons, and look forward to the rest of the season and hope for next year all the better. But this calling it a fail and the huge criticisms that are coming on Rabo's head usually leads o teams looking for the wrong kind of 'help' to try and guarantee wins. Mostly agree with your post, but don't forget that it's Rabo themselves that place so much emphasis on this race. They want to win and be highly visible, which only makes sense since this is their home-race and the second most-watched race of the year in the Netherlands (after the Tour). If one of their biggest goals in the season is to shine here and they are completely invisible, I think that would classify as failing right? So yes, plenty of other teams did as badly as Rabo here. GreenEdge are one example, Radioshack another. But for those two this race is just one of the classics. For Rabo it's the second most important race of the season. I don't even blame them for failing. I blame them for not trying. Garmin, as you say, strictly speaking also failed. But they had two riders in the breakaway and were prominent for the whole race. And of course Rabo's fail is exaggerated, but that's only logical because there's so much attention paid to them on this forum. Every result is highlighted by the Dutch posters, as is every lack of results by others. Same with BMC for instance, or Sky. Posted by: just some guy« on: April 16, 2012, 12:00 »I think it's great that a sponsor like Rabbles sticks by the team and the sport through thick and (very) thin and puts money in at all levels. In that respect, Rabobank deserves a lot of credit (see what I did that there). and now in OZ with Rabobank opening there Posted by: L'arriviste« on: April 16, 2012, 11:42 »I think it's great that a sponsor like Rabbles sticks by the team and the sport through thick and (very) thin and puts money in at all levels. In that respect, Rabobank deserves a lot of credit (see what I did that there).
However, it's a bit daft to put tons of pressure - and I'm not saying it does, but the perception is there - on a single day home race. It happens to a lesser extent in California too because, as we are reminded almost every year, it has a lot of interests there. Posted by: benotti69« on: April 16, 2012, 11:06 »To add another point in relation to Rabobank. They are not really top 5 team. I mean they are mid table team that shows great potential and that is about it, some results go their way and they have riders that show great promise, but and that is the problem for Rabo there is always a but.
Can we start calling them Dutch Carrots this season till they win something : ;DPosted by: benotti69« on: April 16, 2012, 10:35 »Of course Rabo didn't do worse than other teams. However, this is Rabobank's home race, one of the most important ones of the year for them. The sponsor expects the team to at the very least contend for the victory each year. And they haven't been able to do a single thing for years now. Well then we are getting into the areas that has led cycling down the path of 'help' apart from a rider's talent. And that is because of demands made and pressures applied. If we accept that they didn't win, understand the reasons, and look forward to the rest of the season and hope for next year all the better. But this calling it a fail and the huge criticisms that are coming on Rabo's head usually leads o teams looking for the wrong kind of 'help' to try and guarantee wins. Rabo cannot control Amstel Gold, no matter how much they want too. No more than the Schleck's could or Canc could the race when he went down in a feed station. Garmin had 3 riders in the top 20, better to have 1 in the top 3. Why didn't 1 of them go after Freire. That could be considered a fail. Greenedge 20th. By their season standards so far another fail! Sky no one in the top 20, big fail in a big race! There are too many components to a race and unless you have the 'legs+' of Canc, Boonen this year or Gilbert last year you really have to be lucky, be in the right position at the right time and take the right risks. Freire could've won this if Tepersta waited another 1km to start chasing or Gilbert waited or better if there was no headwind. But thems the breaks. Last comment on Rabo. Look at last years results. Best rider is not Dutch. LLSanchez : . 2010, best rider Russian. There has not been an outstanding Dutch rider for a few years, although i am willing to be corrected and will apologise if wrong.Long and winded reply. :police: Posted by: just some guy« on: April 16, 2012, 10:13 »One has to wonder - the royal one ofc
If we or Holland expect too much of Rabo mens teams I think the issue comes from the under 23 team smoking fields - ie they peak way too soon so my advice if you like Rabo Follow the under 23 team and Vos ![]() Posted by: Havetts« on: April 16, 2012, 10:10 »Havetts, you say they only had one rider in decent form, Mollema. But where was Mollema? He said he got boxed in by the Cunego-Nordhaug crash and had to hit the brakes. sh*t happens but not much you can do about it .Posted by: Slow Rider« on: April 16, 2012, 09:52 »Of course Rabo didn't do worse than other teams. However, this is Rabobank's home race, one of the most important ones of the year for them. The sponsor expects the team to at the very least contend for the victory each year. And they haven't been able to do a single thing for years now.
OK, so Rabo doesn't have the perfect rider for a race like this. That doesn't mean they have to be insivible all race long. Again, if this was Flèche Wallone that'd be fine, but in their home race more is expected of them. They could have tried something, and they should have. Havetts, you say they only had one rider in decent form, Mollema. But where was Mollema? Why didn't he at least try to jump at any point? In that final uphill sprint he was never going to finish anywhere close to the podium. So that means he has to do something different. Like what Freire and Terpstra (whose national race it is, too, but he actually showed something) tried. Vacansoleil and Argos weren't great either, sure. However they did try at various points. Completely pointless attempts doomed for faillure, but they tried. They did something and were visible for the viewer. The criticism of Rabobank is completely justified. When Lotto didn't show a thing in 'their' cobbled classics, they were criticised as well. If Euskaltel would be invisible at the Pais Vasco the sponsors would probably fire half the team. Rabo's new tactic was a complete failure. They want to contend this race and fight for the win, then they should either try to attack earlier or buy some rider that can win on such a finish. Posted by: benotti69« on: April 16, 2012, 09:28 »Funnily enough they do this quite often, when they have the numbers they choke and can not preform up to standard, a great example for this is the yearly rabo debacle that is the Dutch national RR championship. I think that perhaps too large a pressure is put upon the riders in these races since these two races are the most important Dutch races and therefore the riders are stifled in their riding of the race, it also ensures that the DS's of Rabo always make strange decisions during these races I think Race Radios are ruining races and racing where DSs cant feel anything for the race. Time riders raced and leave DS to their team talk before and after the race. There are examples of riders riding stupidly and the DS would have no doubt screamed into the riders ear, I am thinking of Pozzatto in Paris Roubaix. Posted by: benotti69« on: April 16, 2012, 09:24 »We can open a thread like this for all the teams except OPQS!
Rabo having a crap season so far for sure. But so have lots of others. Too many fans watching sport nowadays can't accept anything less than a win. Posted by: barrus« on: April 16, 2012, 09:21 »Thats true ram, but they were woeful today and seem to find a way to stuff up in Amstel Gold even when they have the numbers in the finale like last year. Funnily enough they do this quite often, when they have the numbers they choke and can not preform up to standard, a great example for this is the yearly rabo debacle that is the Dutch national RR championship. I think that perhaps too large a pressure is put upon the riders in these races since these two races are the most important Dutch races and therefore the riders are stifled in their riding of the race, it also ensures that the DS's of Rabo always make strange decisions during these races Posted by: Arb« on: April 16, 2012, 09:11 »Rabo's problem was that (arguably) their best rider for this kind of race was at Castilla y Leon. Wilco, Jetse, or the Butcher? Posted by: just some guy« on: April 16, 2012, 08:23 »Rabo's problem was that (arguably) their best rider for this kind of race was at Castilla y Leon. You could argue that they let there best chance go to Katusha as well using hindsight ofc Posted by: 42x16ss« on: April 16, 2012, 07:59 »Rabo's problem was that (arguably) their best rider for this kind of race was at Castilla y Leon.
Posted by: Havetts« on: April 16, 2012, 00:32 »Hard to take control of a race when the three guys in the final of the race are cramping up and cant do much more. I meant taking control as in riding the race pre-finale, they rode the pace till 40 km to go until Barredo attacked, pointlessly though.
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Re: Mouvement pour un cyclisme crédible by Fus87
[Today at 07:58] Re: Stage 16: Valloire - Ivrea, 238km; Tuesday May 21 by search [Today at 07:54] Re: Armstrong's Bill - money required to pay back by just some guy [Today at 07:52] Re: The Rás Tailteann - 19th to 26th May by Fus87 [Today at 07:49] Re: Stage 16: Valloire - Ivrea, 238km; Tuesday May 21 by FreeWheelin [Today at 07:25] Re: Tour of Japan / May 19th-26th / Asia Tour by DinZ [Today at 05:49]
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