Mens Road Cycling - How does Rabobank screw up so many times in the Amstel Gold Race?

Auscyclefan · « **on:** April 15, 2012, 16:00 »

How does Rabobank screw up so many times in the Amstel Gold Race?

P.S. Where was Paul martens, Havetts? ;D

ram · « **Reply #1 on:** April 15, 2012, 16:06 »

Isn't it the equivalent of asking why Euskaltel fail in the cobbles?

They're sh**e may be the answer

Auscyclefan · « **Reply #2 on:** April 15, 2012, 16:09 »

Thats true ram, but they were woeful today and seem to find a way to stuff up in Amstel Gold even when they have the numbers in the finale like last year.

AG · « **Reply #3 on:** April 15, 2012, 16:10 »

really - coming in with 6 leaders .... what can you expect ???

ram · « **Reply #4 on:** April 15, 2012, 16:14 »

At least they had place for two non leaders.

Quote from: Auscyclefan on April 15, 2012, 16:09

Thats true ram, but they were woeful today and seem to find a way to stuff up in Amstel Gold even when they have the numbers in the finale like last year.

Aye

Slow Rider · « **Reply #5 on:** April 15, 2012, 16:21 »

Rabo did look completely hopeless, lambs to the slaughter... But that's to be expected in a sprint finish, they haven't got anyone capable of winning a sprint. At the very least they could have tried some attacks. But then again, there weren't many attacks overall, so I guess the tempo was just too high.

The problem is that they don't have any true leader for this kind of race. Perhaps they should try to get Poels to join them, at least he stands a chance in such a finish (even if he was invisible today).

Auscyclefan · « **Reply #6 on:** April 15, 2012, 16:23 »

Quote from: Slow Rider on April 15, 2012, 16:21

Rabo did look completely hopeless, lambs to the slaughter... But that's to be expected in a sprint finish, they haven't got anyone capable of winning a sprint. At the very least they could have tried some attacks. But then again, there weren't many attacks overall, so I guess the tempo was just too high.

The problem is that they don't have any true leader for this kind of race. Perhaps they should try to get Poels to join them, at least he stands a chance in such a finish (even if he was invisible today).

They only had one rider in the finale....didn't have a chance.

Havetts · « **Reply #7 on:** April 15, 2012, 22:12 »

Quote from: Auscyclefan on April 15, 2012, 16:00

How does Rabobank screw up so many times in the Amstel Gold Race?

P.S. Where was Paul martens, Havetts? ;D

Atleast compared to last years they didnt pointlessly take over control.

P.S. So stupid you fell for the ridiculous Paul Martens hype train, mostly started because of my CQ team..

Havetts · « **Reply #8 on:** April 15, 2012, 22:12 »

I really enjoyed Cadels presence in the race too, hes so headed to winning FW... Wait who am I kidding.. ;D

Il Grillo · « **Reply #9 on:** April 15, 2012, 23:35 »

I don't think I ever saw Rabobank during this race.

Havetts · « **Reply #10 on:** April 15, 2012, 23:59 »

Neither did I see em on the front.

What I dont get though is the bashing they receive this year regarding Amstel, everyone assumes they'll ride pointlessly again while they dont have a favourite. Now they don't ride without a favourite, still get bashed regardless. I loved how the gap got to 13 minutes when everyone waited until rabobank would chase.

P.S. Thanked your post ACF, it is hilarious.

Auscyclefan · « **Reply #11 on:** April 16, 2012, 00:10 »

Quote from: Havetts on April 15, 2012, 22:12

I really enjoyed Cadels presence in the race too, hes so headed to winning FW... Wait who am I kidding.. ;D

Oh that cut deep!

:

Quote from: Havetts on April 15, 2012, 23:59

Neither did I see em on the front.

What I dont get though is the bashing they receive this year regarding Amstel, everyone assumes they'll ride pointlessly again while they dont have a favourite. Now they don't ride without a favourite, still get bashed regardless. I loved how the gap got to 13 minutes when everyone waited until rabobank would chase.

P.S. Thanked your post ACF, it is hilarious.

The fact is they actually do have plenty of quality riders and quite few others on here have actually criticised their performance. If you just want to have a go at me, that's fine but the question is rather legitimate. May I remind you that it was actually Leopard Trek, BMC and Katusha who did the bulk of the chasing, not Rabobank.

Quote from: Havetts on April 15, 2012, 22:12

Atleast compared to last years they didnt pointlessly take over control.

P.S. So stupid you fell for the ridiculous Paul Martens hype train, mostly started because of my CQ team..

I didn't fall for anything. I am just having a bit of fun Havetts. You clearly have become sensitive about it all which is evident by your comments on here and the shoutobx. They didn't pointlessly take over because they actually made the race, unlike Rabobank. Clearly you lack a bsic understanding of the sport if you can't comprehend why BMC started to chase in the finale.

Martin318is · « **Reply #12 on:** April 16, 2012, 00:16 »

Quote from: Il Grillo on April 15, 2012, 23:35

I don't think I ever saw Rabobank during this race.

oh, they were there. There was great footage of Gesink going backwards and out of contention about 20km to go.

Havetts · « **Reply #13 on:** April 16, 2012, 00:17 »

Quote from: Auscyclefan on April 16, 2012, 00:10

The fact is they actually do have plenty of quality riders and quite few others on here have actually criticised their performance. If you just want to have a go at me, that's fine but the question is rather legitimate. May I remind you that it was actually Leopard Trek, BMC and Katusha who did the bulk of the chasing, not Rabobank.

I just noted that Rabobank did not chase, that is why the gap grew to 13 minutes. The others team realised it and started chasing, note that I did not say anything negative about the chasers. I just noted Rabobank didnt chase pointlessly if they were ultimately to fail.

Quote from: Auscyclefan on April 16, 2012, 00:10

I didn't fall for anything. I am just having a bit of fun Havetts. You clearly have become sensitive about it all which is evident by your comments on here and the shoutobx. They didn't pointlessly take over because they actually made the race, unlike Rabobank. Clearly you lack a bsic understanding of the sport if you can't comprehend why BMC started to chase in the finale.

I stated nothing about BMC, they were correct to chase, they had every single reason to do so. I just noted that Rabobank ("They") didnt pointlessly chase because no one besides Mollema was in proper form to possibly win the race. :

You completely misunderstood everything I said.. :

Havetts · « **Reply #14 on:** April 16, 2012, 00:18 »

Quote from: Martin318is on April 16, 2012, 00:16

oh, they were there. There was great footage of Gesink going backwards and out of contention about 20km to go.

Correct, what surprised me was the speed he went backwards with. Eyserbosweg he was completely on the front row, crossed in 10th position and the moment they hit the Fromberg he just went boom.

Auscyclefan · « **Reply #15 on:** April 16, 2012, 00:26 »

Quote from: Havetts on April 16, 2012, 00:17

I just noted that Rabobank did not chase, that is why the gap grew to 13 minutes. The others team realised it and started chasing, note that I did not say anything negative about the chasers. I just noted Rabobank didnt chase pointlessly if they were ultimately to fail.

I stated nothing about BMC, they were correct to chase, they had every single reason to do so. I just noted that Rabobank ("They") didnt pointlessly chase because no one besides Mollema was in proper form to possibly win the race. :

You completely misunderstood everything I said.. :

Firstly, I understood exactly what you said. I just reject the premise that the teams waited for Rabobank to chase. They just decided to chase when they felt the gap was getting to large. in a lot of these classics, the break away often gets a big gap. They didn't really take control last year either as they let Gilbert do most of the chasing when Andy attacked. This is why I interpreted that last comment as a cheap shot at BM because you also had a go at Evans.

Havetts · « **Reply #16 on:** April 16, 2012, 00:32 »

Hard to take control of a race when the three guys in the final of the race are cramping up and cant do much more. I meant taking control as in riding the race pre-finale, they rode the pace till 40 km to go until Barredo attacked, pointlessly though.

42x16ss · « **Reply #17 on:** April 16, 2012, 07:59 »

Rabo's problem was that (arguably) their best rider for this kind of race was at Castilla y Leon.

just some guy · « **Reply #18 on:** April 16, 2012, 08:23 »

Quote from: 42x16ss on April 16, 2012, 07:59

Rabo's problem was that (arguably) their best rider for this kind of race was at Castilla y Leon.

You could argue that they let there best chance go to Katusha as well using hindsight ofc

Arb · « **Reply #19 on:** April 16, 2012, 09:11 »

Quote from: 42x16ss on April 16, 2012, 07:59

Rabo's problem was that (arguably) their best rider for this kind of race was at Castilla y Leon.

Wilco, Jetse, or the Butcher?

barrus · « **Reply #20 on:** April 16, 2012, 09:21 »

Quote from: Auscyclefan on April 15, 2012, 16:09

Thats true ram, but they were woeful today and seem to find a way to stuff up in Amstel Gold even when they have the numbers in the finale like last year.

Funnily enough they do this quite often, when they have the numbers they choke and can not preform up to standard, a great example for this is the yearly rabo debacle that is the Dutch national RR championship. I think that perhaps too large a pressure is put upon the riders in these races since these two races are the most important Dutch races and therefore the riders are stifled in their riding of the race, it also ensures that the DS's of Rabo always make strange decisions during these races

benotti69 · « **Reply #21 on:** April 16, 2012, 09:24 »

We can open a thread like this for all the teams except OPQS!

Rabo having a crap season so far for sure. But so have lots of others.

Too many fans watching sport nowadays can't accept anything less than a win.

benotti69 · « **Reply #22 on:** April 16, 2012, 09:28 »

Quote from: barrus on April 16, 2012, 09:21

Funnily enough they do this quite often, when they have the numbers they choke and can not preform up to standard, a great example for this is the yearly rabo debacle that is the Dutch national RR championship. I think that perhaps too large a pressure is put upon the riders in these races since these two races are the most important Dutch races and therefore the riders are stifled in their riding of the race, it also ensures that the DS's of Rabo always make strange decisions during these races

I think Race Radios are ruining races and racing where DSs cant feel anything for the race. Time riders raced and leave DS to their team talk before and after the race.

There are examples of riders riding stupidly and the DS would have no doubt screamed into the riders ear, I am thinking of Pozzatto in Paris Roubaix.

Slow Rider · « **Reply #23 on:** April 16, 2012, 09:52 »

Of course Rabo didn't do worse than other teams. However, this is Rabobank's home race, one of the most important ones of the year for them. The sponsor expects the team to at the very least contend for the victory each year. And they haven't been able to do a single thing for years now.

OK, so Rabo doesn't have the perfect rider for a race like this. That doesn't mean they have to be insivible all race long. Again, if this was Flèche Wallone that'd be fine, but in their home race more is expected of them. They could have tried something, and they should have. Havetts, you say they only had one rider in decent form, Mollema. But where was Mollema? Why didn't he at least try to jump at any point? In that final uphill sprint he was never going to finish anywhere close to the podium. So that means he has to do something different. Like what Freire and Terpstra (whose national race it is, too, but he actually showed something) tried.

Vacansoleil and Argos weren't great either, sure. However they did try at various points. Completely pointless attempts doomed for faillure, but they tried. They did something and were visible for the viewer.

The criticism of Rabobank is completely justified. When Lotto didn't show a thing in 'their' cobbled classics, they were criticised as well. If Euskaltel would be invisible at the Pais Vasco the sponsors would probably fire half the team. Rabo's new tactic was a complete failure. They want to contend this race and fight for the win, then they should either try to attack earlier or buy some rider that can win on such a finish.

Havetts · « **Reply #24 on:** April 16, 2012, 10:10 »

Quote from: Slow Rider on April 16, 2012, 09:52

Havetts, you say they only had one rider in decent form, Mollema. But where was Mollema?

He said he got boxed in by the Cunego-Nordhaug crash and had to hit the brakes. sh*t happens but not much you can do about it

.

just some guy · « **Reply #25 on:** April 16, 2012, 10:13 »

One has to wonder - the royal one ofc

If we or Holland expect too much of Rabo mens teams

I think the issue comes from the under 23 team smoking fields - ie they peak way too soon

so my advice if you like Rabo Follow the under 23 team and Vos

benotti69 · « **Reply #26 on:** April 16, 2012, 10:35 »

Quote from: Slow Rider on April 16, 2012, 09:52

Of course Rabo didn't do worse than other teams. However, this is Rabobank's home race, one of the most important ones of the year for them. The sponsor expects the team to at the very least contend for the victory each year. And they haven't been able to do a single thing for years now.

OK, so Rabo doesn't have the perfect rider for a race like this. That doesn't mean they have to be insivible all race long. Again, if this was Flèche Wallone that'd be fine, but in their home race more is expected of them. They could have tried something, and they should have. Havetts, you say they only had one rider in decent form, Mollema. But where was Mollema? Why didn't he at least try to jump at any point? In that final uphill sprint he was never going to finish anywhere close to the podium. So that means he has to do something different. Like what Freire and Terpstra (whose national race it is, too, but he actually showed something) tried.

Vacansoleil and Argos weren't great either, sure. However they did try at various points. Completely pointless attempts doomed for faillure, but they tried. They did something and were visible for the viewer.

The criticism of Rabobank is completely justified. When Lotto didn't show a thing in 'their' cobbled classics, they were criticised as well. If Euskaltel would be invisible at the Pais Vasco the sponsors would probably fire half the team. Rabo's new tactic was a complete failure. They want to contend this race and fight for the win, then they should either try to attack earlier or buy some rider that can win on such a finish.

Well then we are getting into the areas that has led cycling down the path of 'help' apart from a rider's talent. And that is because of demands made and pressures applied.

If we accept that they didn't win, understand the reasons, and look forward to the rest of the season and hope for next year all the better. But this calling it a fail and the huge criticisms that are coming on Rabo's head usually leads o teams looking for the wrong kind of 'help' to try and guarantee wins.

Rabo cannot control Amstel Gold, no matter how much they want too. No more than the Schleck's could or Canc could the race when he went down in a feed station.

Garmin had 3 riders in the top 20, better to have 1 in the top 3. Why didn't 1 of them go after Freire. That could be considered a fail. Greenedge 20th. By their season standards so far another fail! Sky no one in the top 20, big fail in a big race!

There are too many components to a race and unless you have the 'legs+' of Canc, Boonen this year or Gilbert last year you really have to be lucky, be in the right position at the right time and take the right risks. Freire could've won this if Tepersta waited another 1km to start chasing or Gilbert waited or better if there was no headwind. But thems the breaks.

Last comment on Rabo. Look at last years results. Best rider is not Dutch. LLSanchez :

. 2010, best rider Russian. There has not been an outstanding Dutch rider for a few years, although i am willing to be corrected and will apologise if wrong.

Long and winded reply. :police:

benotti69 · « **Reply #27 on:** April 16, 2012, 11:06 »

To add another point in relation to Rabobank. They are not really top 5 team. I mean they are mid table team that shows great potential and that is about it, some results go their way and they have riders that show great promise, but and that is the problem for Rabo there is always a but.

Can we start calling them Dutch Carrots this season till they win something :

;D

L'arriviste · « **Reply #28 on:** April 16, 2012, 11:42 »

I think it's great that a sponsor like Rabbles sticks by the team and the sport through thick and (very) thin and puts money in at all levels. In that respect, Rabobank deserves a lot of credit (see what I did that there).

However, it's a bit daft to put tons of pressure - and I'm not saying it does, but the perception is there - on a single day home race. It happens to a lesser extent in California too because, as we are reminded almost every year, it has a lot of interests there.

just some guy · « **Reply #29 on:** April 16, 2012, 12:00 »

Quote from: L'arriviste on April 16, 2012, 11:42

I think it's great that a sponsor like Rabbles sticks by the team and the sport through thick and (very) thin and puts money in at all levels. In that respect, Rabobank deserves a lot of credit (see what I did that there).

However, it's a bit daft to put tons of pressure - and I'm not saying it does, but the perception is there - on a single day home race. It happens to a lesser extent in California too because, as we are reminded almost every year, it has a lot of interests there.

and now in OZ

with Rabobank opening there

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