Mens Road Cycling - Is ‘Tommeke’ the best cobbles rider of all-time?

just some guy · « **on:** April 10, 2012, 09:43 »

Is ‘Tommeke’ the best cobbles rider of all-time?

He thinks so - “It’s my most beautiful win,” Boonen said Sunday. “I realize now I am maybe the best guy to ever ride on these cobblestones.”

what say you ?

ZamanAbbaticchio · « **Reply #1 on:** April 10, 2012, 09:47 »

I say he is. :elpistolero

El Pistolero" class="smiley" />

AG · « **Reply #2 on:** April 10, 2012, 10:05 »

Yep - most RVV's, most PR's, most E3's ... needs Omloop but its a pretty impressive record.

just some guy · « **Reply #3 on:** April 10, 2012, 10:12 »

I say yes,

someone voted no - reasons

jimmythecuckoo · « **Reply #4 on:** April 10, 2012, 10:13 »

He is up there, but its always difficult not to take a misty eyed look back into history and talk about the greats of a bygone era.

I have said he could be judged that way at the end of his career.

His comeback from the doldrums is certainly something to behold.

Jamsque · « **Reply #5 on:** April 10, 2012, 10:14 »

I voted 'no' out of spite and malice.

Also I generally disagree with proclaiming anyone to be the best X of all time.

ZamanAbbaticchio · « **Reply #6 on:** April 10, 2012, 10:15 »

Quote from: Jamsque on April 10, 2012, 10:14

I voted 'no' out of spite and malice.

Also I generally disagree with proclaiming anyone to be the best X of all time.

I could debate you on that but that would be out of topic

AG · « **Reply #7 on:** April 10, 2012, 10:16 »

Quote from: Jamsque on April 10, 2012, 10:14

I voted 'no' out of spite and malice.

Also I generally disagree with proclaiming anyone to be the best X of all time.

I love your brutal honesty Jamsque. ;D

ram · « **Reply #8 on:** April 10, 2012, 10:17 »

Can't compare eras, he's not a Bradman like sportsman, who's not just streets but whole highways ahead of the rest, to claim that he's the best of all time. Best now, can't say the best of all time without watching every race. Bit of a thundermuppet statement if it's an exact quote.

just some guy · « **Reply #9 on:** April 10, 2012, 10:19 »

Quote from: Jamsque on April 10, 2012, 10:14

I voted 'no' out of spite and malice.

Also I generally disagree with proclaiming anyone to be the best X of all time.

hence the - Too hard to decide between generations ?

Jamsque · « **Reply #10 on:** April 10, 2012, 10:21 »

Quote from: just some guy on April 10, 2012, 10:19

hence the - Too hard to decide between generations ?

For me it's not a question of difficulty comparing generations, it's a question of whether or not attempting to make such judgements is even worthwhile.

just some guy · « **Reply #11 on:** April 10, 2012, 10:24 »

Quote from: Jamsque on April 10, 2012, 10:21

For me it's not a question of difficulty comparing generations, it's a question of whether or not attempting to make such judgements is even worthwhile.

ok I see you point

Slow Rider · « **Reply #12 on:** April 10, 2012, 14:05 »

No, he's not. Perhaps he will be someday, but I doubt it.

One thing that people forget in these comparisons is the competition Boonen has. Cancellara is a mighty impressive rider, absolutely. However, if you look at Roger de Vlaeminck, he was struggling with a little guy called Eddy Merckx. Tom Boonen does have 3 victories in Flanders compared to De Vlaeminck's one, but I still tend to think of the latter as the best cobbled racer ever.

If Boonen wins another Roubaix though, it's completely different. And he is only 31.. Perhaps I should have voted for the second option.

benotti69 · « **Reply #13 on:** April 10, 2012, 15:30 »

Cant compare the generations.

RDV had to win a lot of races to make a decent living therefore had to race a lot. Nowadays 2 big race wins make riders wealthy so a rider can pick and choose and they do even when they are not winning.

Also RDVs competition seems to have been better than what we have now! Lot of great riders around when RDV raced. Doesn't seem to be the same group of greats around now.

Dim · « **Reply #14 on:** April 10, 2012, 16:34 »

Not yet.. Eddie would never have pood himself

Dancing on the Pedals · « **Reply #15 on:** April 10, 2012, 21:03 »

He's certainly up there with the best, and his record speaks for itself. By the time he retires, he could potentially have 5 wins at both Flanders and Roubaix, which would be incredible. However, as others have said, it's difficult to compare him with previous generations (just as to a certain extent the same goes for GT riders etc) - competition is different, bike technology is infinitely more advanced etc. Too many variables to make a truly correct judgement imho, but on pure statistics, he is well on the way to being the number 1 for sure

Martin318is · « **Reply #16 on:** April 11, 2012, 00:54 »

Quote from: Dim on April 10, 2012, 16:34

Not yet.. Eddie would never have pood himself

Surely Eddie would have if he had needed to? I can see Fabian or Pozzato getting off the bike to go behind a tree but not Tom or Eddie.

Martin318is · « **Reply #17 on:** April 11, 2012, 00:57 »

Quote from: ram on April 10, 2012, 10:17

Bit of a thundermuppet statement if it's an exact quote.

If its an exact quote its not that bad I think. He is basically saying he is coming to the realisation that he is one of the best ever (if not THE best ever) at rding P-R ("these cobbles"). I don't think he is saying that he knows that he is the best cobbles rider of all time.

Considering his age and chances in the future - and considering the rush he must be feeling from equalling the record so emphatically - he can probably be forgiven for being in a good mood and having a strongly supported ego.

However, if he says it again later in the season - its gloves off!

ram · « **Reply #18 on:** April 11, 2012, 03:13 »

Possiblly. For me it seemed to be a right arrogant comment that was having a go at RDV's sooking, which was pretty silly and thundermuppetry itself.

Martin318is · « **Reply #19 on:** April 11, 2012, 04:03 »

Quote from: ram on April 11, 2012, 03:13

Possiblly. For me it seemed to be a right arrogant comment that was having a go at RDV's sooking, which was pretty silly and thundermuppetry itself.

Maybe you've struck on something there! Is bad PR sense the missing ingredient for being a P-R champion?

Lets see.. Tommeke, RDV, Fabian.... :-D

ram · « **Reply #20 on:** April 11, 2012, 04:07 »

Word

Il Grillo · « **Reply #21 on:** April 12, 2012, 15:43 »

Yes, he is the best. No one has ever won 7 cobbled Monuments. It doesn't mean he's the best classics cyclist though - Sean Kelly, Francesco Moser, Eddy Merckx, Roger de Vlaeminck are some of the names that spring to mind then. He's one of the all time greats though, that can't be denied. And he's only 31 years old... If he's really lucky he might even equal Roger de Vlaeminck's record in Monuments(11). Milan-San Remo is a big gap on his palmares though, I hope he wins that race next year!

Capt_Cavman · « **Reply #22 on:** April 16, 2012, 10:06 »

No.

putting aside the comparing between eras issue, I don't think he is clearly better than Cancellara.

42x16ss · « **Reply #23 on:** April 17, 2012, 06:34 »

Quote from: Capt_Cavman on April 16, 2012, 10:06

No.

putting aside the comparing between eras issue, I don't think he is clearly better than Cancellara.

Well, he has been at some stage in their careers, because even without this season Boonen is still ahead 3-2 at PR and 2-1 at RVV, ALL with Cancellara there. Just because Cancellara was ahead in '10 and '11 doesn't make it so for their whole careers. Let's not forget Boonen's dominance from '05 to '09 (as so many seem to)

uphillstruggle · « **Reply #24 on:** April 17, 2012, 13:06 »

Quote from: Capt_Cavman on April 16, 2012, 10:06

I don't think he is clearly better than Cancellara.

But he has a lot more wins at roughly the same age.

I think he is probably the best Cobbled rider but not the best classics rider by some way.

Il Grillo · « **Reply #25 on:** April 17, 2012, 19:36 »

The only races still missing from his palmares(races he can win) are the Omloop het Nieuwsblad, Paris-Tours and Milan-San Remo. You can't compare with classic specialists from different eras because the sport is much more specialized now than back in Roger de Vlaeminck's time for example.

If he manages to win these 3 races he will be a legend. He can still do it, he's only 31 years old after all. I think he will win Paris-Tours this year. After all, the likes of Cavendish already struggle for making it to the finish in the lead group in that race. O0

edit: I guess you can also include the Olympics road race.

Parrulo · « **Reply #26 on:** April 18, 2012, 00:35 »

Quote from: Il Grillo on April 17, 2012, 19:36

The only races still missing from his palmares(races he can win) are the Omloop het Nieuwsblad, Paris-Tours and Milan-San Remo. You can't compare with classic specialists from different eras because the sport is much more specialized now than back in Roger de Vlaeminck's time for example.

If he manages to win these 3 races he will be a legend. He can still do it, he's only 31 years old after all. I think he will win Paris-Tours this year. After all, the likes of Cavendish already struggle for making it to the finish in the lead group in that race. O0

edit: I guess you can also include the Olympics road race.

paris-tour is definitively possible already this season, and so is the olympic road race even tho imo he won't be tip top favorite there with such a pathetically easy. omloop is ofc easily doable. the hardest one imo will be M-SR. As much as i love oscarito he could have let tommeke win M-SR in 2010

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