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Who (deserves/will get) the final 3 World Tour Spots

Argos Shimano
Lotto Belisol
Francais de Jeux
Europcar
Saxo Tinkoff

Flo

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Re: World tour and pro conti/conti teams 2013
« Reply #30 on: October 30, 2012, 15:34 »
because their classics team and sprint teams are brilliant - come on Florry

Take away Contador and they are a good pro conti team

No
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    Arb

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    Re: World tour and pro conti/conti teams 2013
    « Reply #31 on: October 30, 2012, 15:46 »
    Haedo/Bennati/Cantwell/Kump is a better set of sprinters than most teams.

    Contador/Kreuziger/Roche is the best set of stage racers outside Sky.

    Their classics are weak but Breschel will get a handful of top10s.

    Compared to Argos they are amazing. Argos have two amazing sprinters, three or four 3rd/4th tier sprinters. Their best riders on any terrain uphill are 1st and 2nd year neopros who will be largely invisible in big races until they develop further.

    Argos cannot do anything in T-A/Catalunya/Pais Vasco/Fleche/L-B-L/Giro/Dauphine/Suisse/CSS/Lombardia.

    They simply do not need to be WT as they will get invited to all the races which suit them (and still a few more), regardless of whether or not they "deserve" it.
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  • Flo

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    Re: World tour and pro conti/conti teams 2013
    « Reply #32 on: October 30, 2012, 15:50 »
    + Majka and Boaro promising young riders

    And Noval :P
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  • cj2002

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    Re: World tour and pro conti/conti teams 2013
    « Reply #33 on: November 02, 2012, 16:24 »
    UCI ProTeam Top 15

    So the UCI has published the ranking of teams which have met its "sporting criterion" for a ProTour licence for next season.

    Quote


    AG2R LA MONDIALE
    ASTANA PRO TEAM
    BMC RACING TEAM
    CANNONDALE
    EUSKALTEL – EUSKADI
    FORMER RABOBANK
    GARMIN SHARP
    KATUSHA
    LAMPRE – MERIDA
    MOVISTAR TEAM
    OMEGA PHARMA – QUICK-STEP CYCLING TEAM
    ORICA GREENEDGE
    RADIOSHACKNISSAN
    SKY PROCYCLING
    VACANSOLEIL – DCM PRO CYCLING TEAM

    No great surprises in that list, except that it's good to see Rabo and Euskaltel in there.

    The rankings 16 to 20, from which the remaining 3 licences will be allocated is where the action will be later in the month:

    Quote
    16. TEAM ARGOS – SHIMANO
    17. LOTTO BELISOL
    18. FDJ
    19. TEAM EUROPCAR
    20. TEAM SAXO – TINKOFF

    Given that we know the Europcar don't want a WT licence, we're down to 3 out of 4.

    Watch this space.
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  • He shook his head sadly and told me that endemic drug use had compelled him to give up a promising career. "Even one small local race, prize was a salami, and I see doping!" - Tim Moore: Gironimo (Riding the Very Terrible 1914 Tour of Italy)

    ram

    Re: World tour and pro conti/conti teams 2013
    « Reply #34 on: November 02, 2012, 16:48 »
    Pure Black are looking to apply for a Continental license for 2013. They'll be on a hiring run through the summer.
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  • Slow Rider

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    Re: World tour and pro conti/conti teams 2013
    « Reply #35 on: November 02, 2012, 17:14 »
    Haedo/Bennati/Cantwell/Kump is a better set of sprinters than most teams.

    Contador/Kreuziger/Roche is the best set of stage racers outside Sky.

    Their classics are weak but Breschel will get a handful of top10s.

    Haedo is not a great sprinter, Bennati only wins sprints at the very end of the Vuelta when all others have left. The GC riders are good indeed, but it will depend on how they are deployed. If Kreuziger and Roche both skip the Giro and focus on helping Contador, their Giro team will be based around Bennati and some hopefuls. Which would not really be worthy of an invitation there. Similarly, a Vuelta team with a tired Kreuziger coming from helping Contador at the Tour would not be worth having either.

    You're right that Saxo are a broader and better team than, for example, Argos. But in my opinion they're far from as complete and competitive as a team as Sky, Rabobank, OPQS or Movistar for example, who can (and most often do) field more than decent line-ups at all GT's and other major races.

    Quote
    They simply do not need to be WT as they will get invited to all the races which suit them (and still a few more), regardless of whether or not they "deserve" it.

    Doesn't the same thing apply for Saxo, FDJ or Lotto? They'll all get in the Tour regardless of what happens, plus other races they care for. They would actually have to field a decent team in order to get in though, rather than sending collections of nobodies into the races. That's what I'd like to see: 13 WT teams (10 automatic plus 3 from places 11-18 or something similar) that are really the top teams, and then leave the rest open for the race organisers to decide.
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  • Arb

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    Re: World tour and pro conti/conti teams 2013
    « Reply #36 on: November 03, 2012, 00:41 »
    I never said Haedo is a great sprinter. Saxo have depth in their sprint stocks in that they can field a top5-10 sprinter in virtually any race - this is better than several other WT teams, to say their sprint lineup leaves something to be desired is ridiculous (the post I was originally replying to). Again, I never said Saxo were a great team, a perfectly balanced team; but they are far from as bad as Argos or even some (Euskaltel) in the top15.

    Saxo don't need a license, no, but I'd much rather see them in Lombardia, Tour de Suisse, L-B-L or the Giro (amongst others) than Argos. On the other hand when will that apply the other way? Maybe during the TDU it will be a travesty not to have Tom Veelers grace the hallowed crits. It's not so much Saxo, they will get an invite into any race they want. It's the fact that Argos will be sending "teams" to Pais Vasco and Catalunya.

    Everyone knows the system should be tweaked, but reality is that in a months time there will be 18 WT teams.
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  • « Last Edit: November 03, 2012, 01:12 by The Arbiter »

    ram

    Re: World tour and pro conti/conti teams 2013
    « Reply #37 on: November 03, 2012, 00:56 »
    Yeah, but they have Reinardt Janse van Rensburg. Who else has Reinardt Janse van Rensburg?
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  • Arb

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    Re: World tour and pro conti/conti teams 2013
    « Reply #38 on: November 03, 2012, 00:57 »
    Bennati
    Cantwell
    Haedo
    Kump

    Is as good as:

    Guardini
    Guarnieri
    Kamyshev

    Blythe
    Oss

    Schulze
    Serebryakov

    Farrar
    Fernandez
    Von Hoff

    Kristoff
    Haller
    Selig

    Ferrari
    Petacchi
    Cimolai
    Vigano

    Rojas
    Ventoso

    Nizzolo
    Hondo

    EBH
    Sutton
    Rowe




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  • Arb

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    Re: World tour and pro conti/conti teams 2013
    « Reply #39 on: November 03, 2012, 00:58 »
    ;D

            1.       [AUS]         MCCARTHY Jay       JAI       3h29'11"       
        2.       [RSA]         JANSE VAN RENSBURG Reinardt       MTN       02"          
        3.       [NOR]         BUGGE Vegard Robinson       TJM       04"          
        4.       [FRA]         VIGNES Anthony       -       04"          
        5.       [NED]         VAN DER LIJKE Nick       RB3       04"          
        6.       [NED]         OLIVIER Daan       RB3       04"          
        7.       [FRA]         BERTHOU Eric       BSC       04"          
        8.       [FRA]         CHOPIN David       -       04"       
        9.       [GBR]         MCEVOY Jonathan       EDR       04"    
        10.       [FRA]         GUAY Julien       RLM       04"   
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  • ram

    Re: World tour and pro conti/conti teams 2013
    « Reply #40 on: November 03, 2012, 01:00 »
    He gifted it to a good kid.
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  • Slow Rider

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    Re: World tour and pro conti/conti teams 2013
    « Reply #41 on: November 03, 2012, 10:12 »
    I never said Haedo is a great sprinter. Saxo have depth in their sprint stocks in that they can field a top5-10 sprinter in virtually any race - this is better than several other WT teams, to say their sprint lineup leaves something to be desired is ridiculous (the post I was originally replying to). Again, I never said Saxo were a great team, a perfectly balanced team; but they are far from as bad as Argos or even some (Euskaltel) in the top15.

    Saxo don't need a license, no, but I'd much rather see them in Lombardia, Tour de Suisse, L-B-L or the Giro (amongst others) than Argos. On the other hand when will that apply the other way? Maybe during the TDU it will be a travesty not to have Tom Veelers grace the hallowed crits. It's not so much Saxo, they will get an invite into any race they want. It's the fact that Argos will be sending "teams" to Pais Vasco and Catalunya.

    Everyone knows the system should be tweaked, but reality is that in a months time there will be 18 WT teams.

    OK, they can put a top 5-10 sprinter in any race. Does anyone care? As long as it's not sprinters competing for the win, then I'm not bothered. I'd rather have just Kittel than a list of 20 potential sprinters who are all at the Haedo-Bennati level.

    Saxo have a good GC team, an alright classics guy with Breschel and decent second or third rate sprinters. The only real winner they have is Contador though, and they know that and thus focus almost exclusively on him, likely leaving races like the Giro to a team of reserves. I agree Saxo should get a license before Argos, FDJ or Lotto, but in my view none of them should get one.
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  • Arb

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    Re: World tour and pro conti/conti teams 2013
    « Reply #42 on: November 03, 2012, 10:20 »
    OK, they can put a top 5-10 sprinter in any race. Does anyone care?

    No, I don't, but for the sake of people who want to compare them - it makes their sprint lineup better than half the WT.
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  • Dim

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    Re: World tour and pro conti/conti teams 2013
    « Reply #43 on: November 03, 2012, 15:34 »
    Confirmed World Tour

    UCI ProTeams (first division)

    Astana Pro Team (KAZ)
     BMC Racing Team (USA)
     Cannondale (ITA)
     Lampre – Merida (ITA)
     Omega Pharma – Quick Step Cycling Team (BEL)
     ORICA GreenEdge (AUS)
     Sky ProCycling (GBR)
     Vacansoleil DCM Pro Cycling Team (NED)

    New applications still pending decision AG2R, Euskaltel-Euskaid, Garmin-Sharp, (the now former) Rabobank and Saxo Bank-Tinkoff and new applicant Argos-Shimano. Sent for further review - RadioShack, Movistar and Katusha

    Pro Conti approved so far

    Accent Jobs – Wanty (BEL)
     Androni Giocattoli (ITA)
     Caja Rural (ESP)
     CCC Polsat Polkowice (POL)
     Cofidis, Solutions Crédits (FRA)
     IAM Cycling (SUI)
     Landbouwkrediet – Euphony (BEL)
     Sojasun (FRA)
     Team Europcar (FRA)
     Team Netapp – Endura (GER)
     Topsport Vlaanderen – Baloise (BEL)
     UnitedHealthCare Professional Cycling Team (USA)
     Vini Fantini (ITA)
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  • froome19

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    Re: World tour and pro conti/conti teams 2013
    « Reply #44 on: November 03, 2012, 18:17 »

    No, I don't, but for the sake of people who want to compare them - it makes their sprint lineup better than half the WT.
    Tbh sprinting lineups are important.. but if we are talking about top 5-10 sprinters than I really don't think that sprinting is much of a factor, they really don't ever contribute much to a sprint stage.. Sprinting is a factor which imo should be taken into account when concerning sprinters who can actually win.. say comparing Argos to FDJ etc, but comparing Saxo to Euskaltel.. meh.. none of them really can be said to contributing all that much in WT sprints

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    ram

    Re: World tour and pro conti/conti teams 2013
    « Reply #45 on: November 03, 2012, 18:52 »
    Champion Systems > many WT teams now sprint wise
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  • cj2002

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    Re: World tour and pro conti/conti teams 2013
    « Reply #46 on: November 05, 2012, 09:09 »
    New applications still pending decision AG2R, Euskaltel-Euskaid, Garmin-Sharp, (the now former) Rabobank and Saxo Bank-Tinkoff and new applicant Argos-Shimano. Sent for further review - RadioShack, Movistar and Katusha

    JV explained why some of these teams, despite being on the top 15 list (above), are still under consideration. Teams at the end of a 4-year licence have to go in front of the licensing commission as a matter of course. Which is why Garmin, who nobody in their right mind expects not to be a WT team next term, are not yet confirmed.
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  • mc_mountain

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    Re: World tour and pro conti/conti teams 2013
    « Reply #47 on: November 08, 2012, 13:02 »
    Kudos Kittel

      Kittel speaks out over Astana WT status
    Quote
    Money is not everything
    link

    Spazio also wonder out loud if Lampre's WT Licence is at risk link
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    Re: World tour and pro conti/conti teams 2013
    « Reply #49 on: November 21, 2012, 12:35 »
    The key point in that article, and its source in the Telegraaf earlier, is that Lotto and FDJ have been given licences 16 and 17 (probably), leaving Saxo and Argos fighting over number 18.
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  • Arb

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    Re: World tour and pro conti/conti teams 2013
    « Reply #50 on: November 21, 2012, 14:57 »
    Ugh, Lotto without Meersman are really thin.

    Jelly for Ardennes
    Jurgen for Tour
    Greipel for sh*tty small races
    Roelandts ideally for sh*tty classics
    Bak for token breakaway
    Bart/Francis for invisible top20 GC.

    + 20 domestiques.

    Wellens and Tosh have some potential though.
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  • froome19

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    Re: World tour and pro conti/conti teams 2013
    « Reply #51 on: November 21, 2012, 16:48 »
    Really matters how they do

    Greipel, VDB and Roelandts you already can guess how well they are going to do and you can not really expect them to exceed that target, but Jelle has potential to improve in the Ardennes and really contribute in that area for the team. He can also possibly do well in some week long races, but these races are currently becoming more and more based around TT and therefore he is rather handicapped atm. De Clerq is improving his Vuelta was impressive but I am unsure of whether he will ever become proper good but soon a Top 10 in the Vuelta may not be out of his range. Of course though for me Lotto's success next season will really depend of their youngsters they have had a season to become accustomed to the WT and now it is time they start to properly post results the likes of VDS, Wellens, Vanendert (D), possibly even Bulgac and Bille. But certainly Lotto have their backs to the wall currently and will have to relay heavily on their star riders to score if they wish to remain WT.

    In terms of weak team I would say Lampre are probably even weaker than Lotto atm and certainly with the current investigations it is not going to get any better for them..
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  • Arb

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    Re: World tour and pro conti/conti teams 2013
    « Reply #52 on: November 22, 2012, 01:56 »
    Cunego
    Scarponi
    Petacchi
    Ulissi
    Ferrari
    Pozzato
    Serpa
    Anacona

    Aren't they top15, anyway?
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  • cj2002

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    Re: World tour and pro conti/conti teams 2013
    « Reply #53 on: November 22, 2012, 09:46 »
    Yeah - Lampre have already met the sporting criterion of the UCI's ridiculous checklist and made the top 15. Unless there are major financial or (ahem) ethical irregularities, their licence for next year is safe.
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  • Dim

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    Re: World tour and pro conti/conti teams 2013
    « Reply #54 on: November 24, 2012, 16:03 »
    Argos Shimano Quietly Confident [Velonation]

    Quote
    “We think we deserve to have a license, and we have a really good feeling about it.”

    Read more: http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/13359/Argos-Shimano-squad-keeping-fingers-crossed-for-WorldTour-licence.aspx#ixzz2D9lke3DX
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  • Flo

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    Re: World tour and pro conti/conti teams 2013
    « Reply #55 on: November 24, 2012, 16:07 »
    Dim think you forgot AG2R? FdJ alreadt save I think. Voted lotto because they have a license for 2013 (also AG2R) and Saxo cos I think they deserve it more than Argos.
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  • Dim

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    Re: World tour and pro conti/conti teams 2013
    « Reply #56 on: November 24, 2012, 16:14 »
    Dim think you forgot AG2R? FdJ alreadt save I think. Voted lotto because they have a license for 2013 (also AG2R) and Saxo cos I think they deserve it more than Argos.

    I went from the velonation article, will double check.

    Quote
    De Telegraaf said that Lotto-Belisol already had a place, as did Ag2r La Mondiale. However the newspaper may have made an error in its calculations; Ag2r La Mondiale is not one of the five teams fighting for three places, and so whether or not it has a licence does not affect Team Saxo – Tinkoff’s chances.

    Read more: http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/13344/UCI-No-decision-made-yet-in-relation-to-Team-Saxo-Tinkoff-WorldTour-licence.aspx#ixzz2D9oAjKUR

    and more:

    Teams in the top 15 by sporting value (alphabetical order)

    AG2R La Mondiale
     Astana Pro Team
     BMC Racing Team
     Cannondale
     Euskaltel – Euskadi
     Former Rabobank
     Garmin Sharp
     Katusha
     Lampre – Merida
     Movistar Team
     Omega Pharma – Quick-Step Cycling Team
     Orica GreenEdge
     RadioShack Nissan
     Sky Procycling
     Vacansoleil – DCM Pro Cycling Team

    Teams ranked 16th-20th (vying for final three WorldTour spots)

    16. Team Argos – Shimano
     17. Lotto Belisol
     18. FDJ
     19. Team Europcar
     20. Team Saxo – Tinkoff
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  • Dim

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    Re: World tour and pro conti/conti teams 2013
    « Reply #57 on: November 24, 2012, 16:21 »
    As far as who will get it, or deserves it, I think Argos deserve, and will get given a spot. They came close to top 20 last year, showed good improvement this year and finished 16th. really, unless there are serious financial or ethical problems with the 16th placed team they should really get a spot in the World Tour. I think it would be a strange decision not to include them.

    Of the rest, Im tempted to think Lotto will get one. Essentially a new team last year, issued a two year licence so its a matter of renewal, new teams have to be given more than  a year to prove their worth and ability.

    Which brings it down to Francais de Jeux, Europcar or Saxo.

    I really dont have a clue which way that will go. Its almost impossible to call.

    Fdje/Europcar - Could cope without WT cards. THey would still get TDF invites as well as invites to Paris Nice, Dauphine, Paris Roubaix and probably a few others. Then again, theres a big argument that an extra French team should have a WT Spot.

    Saxo - Would still get invites to most of the big races, certainly the Tour and the Vuelta (the giro would be doubtful i think) but it could force Contador into a much heavier schedule than he would like as he might be a bargaining tool in getting the race invites. The trouble is, you end up with a circular situation in that Contadors points dont count again next year. You cant really have a situation where on one hand the UCI punish riders who have served penalties by not allowing their points, but by the same token overlook it when it comes to handing out licences. It defeats the purpose.

    I have no idea on the third.
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  • Dim

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    Re: World tour and pro conti/conti teams 2013
    « Reply #58 on: November 24, 2012, 16:24 »
    Interesting peice from @inrng

    Quote
    Having covered how points are calculated using the UCI’s secret rankings the other day, now it is time to see how these points are used in conjunction with other criteria to award a licence to a team. Because once the teams are ranked in order of their sporting value there are more steps to follow before the squad qualifies for the World Tour and its prestigious calendar of races.


    The first 15 teams pass the sporting test but teams ranked 16th-20th are subject to a review to determine their position in the top-18. This year the UCI is deciding between 16th placed Argos-Shimano, 17th Lotto-Belisol, FDJ in 18th, Europcar in 19th and 20th ranked Team Saxo-Tinkoff for the remaining three places. We can delete Europcar from the list because the French squad does not want a licence with the obligation to ride three grand tours, its squad is not deep enough. So we have four teams racing for three places. What determines this? The UCI rulebook explains:

    read more http://inrng.com/2012/11/uci-world-tour-licence/

    Post Merge: November 24, 2012, 16:25
    There is of course every chance that Lampre could get chucked out in December/January
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  • Slow Rider

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    Re: World tour and pro conti/conti teams 2013
    « Reply #59 on: November 24, 2012, 16:29 »
    Europcar doesn't want a license, so they're out.

    Argos deserves a license I think. They've slowly built their team over the years, growing each year. I think this year they have reached a level good enough for WT. Lotto should get one as well: long-term sponsor, already have a license this year, decent team. Then for the last place, Saxo's team is clearly better than FDJ's, so they should get one.

    Just why the UCI keeps handing out multiple-year licenses while they are reviewed every year is beyond me btw. Why not give 1-year licences each year, instead of giving these 2-3 year commitments that don't mean a thing when the licenses can be revoked easily?
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